Borderlands style weapons to warframe

[Kaiku]

We have so few weapons, and almost everyone wants the best one and just buys it from the market.

Could it be in any way possible to find different weapons with random stats?

Without dropping the crafting from the game, we could find only blueprints to craft such weapons.

The higher level requirement and the higher rarity rating it has, the more it requires crafting items.

Same goes with mods. Have more than one stat what they give bonus to.

The higher the level requirement the weapon or mod has, the better stat boosts it gives. (Lvl 1 gives +5 hp, while lvl 10 gives +50 hp)

And the higher rarity rating it has, the more different stats it gives boosts to. (Common could give bonus only to firing speed, but rare gives bonus to shields, energy efficiency, sprint speed and fire damage +10%.)

I think this is something we MUST have.

[Foxbyte]

Perfect World, while not being a very good game, had an interesting crafting system. Anything you built yourself had the potential for a random inherent buff to a single stat. So a spear you made might not be the exact same as a similar spear built by someone else. This would give us a reason to get multiple blueprints from alert misisons, since there's a chance that the roulette would be kind to us upon construction.

[johncage]

no, that's stupid. this is the future, not some junkyard or medieval village where they build your sword out of nail files. get lost with that random nonsense.

[IAmSecretSpy]

no, that's stupid. this is the future, not some junkyard or medieval village where they build your sword out of nail files. get lost with that random nonsense.

Keep your opinion to yourself and stop being rude.

If you dont like the idea give a valid response why and further state what would be a better solution rather then resorting to childlike antics.

[Kaiku]

no, that's stupid. this is the future, not some junkyard or medieval village where they build your sword out of nail files. get lost with that random nonsense.

You can craft a warframe out of all kind of junk.

And do you think the current system is fine as it is now?

[MechaTails]

no, that's stupid. this is the future, not some junkyard or medieval village where they build your sword out of nail files. get lost with that random nonsense.

Absolutely. This is the future (or the remote past lol) where I assume the technology exists where you make a weapon and it does what you expect it to, not give you a random bonus for no reason. The mods are a neat idea in that respect, you find a neat upgrade and you install it in your gear. It doesn't make sense to go to the Cyber-Blacksmith's Foundry (or automated Foundry 3D Printer? lol) and say "Hey! Make me a gun! And do whatever with it I don't give a crap what random stats it has!"

Another idea would be to find rare materials that can be added when creating an item to give it the stats specified on the rare material. Or maybe just rare blueprints for weapons with bonus stats, whatever is easier. Though I think at that point people would be asking for a trade system.

You can craft a warframe out of all kind of junk.

And do you think the current system is fine as it is now?

I wouldn't exactly call Neural Sensors and Control Modules and precious ores "junk" lol

Edited January 20, 2013 by DarkTails

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I believe there is a craft item called "scrap" ;)

At any rate though, I would like more customization that could allow a player more loyalty to a single gun.

[MechaTails]

I believe there is a craft item called "scrap" ;)

At any rate though, I would like more customization that could allow a player more loyalty to a single gun.

Haven't seen Scrap, unless you mean Salvage? Salvage says in the description it's valuable metal.

Would be neat to customize a gun to your likes, mods already do that just not to the extent that I'd like.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Er salvage, yeah. My bad.

But I feel like you ought to be able to craft a gun and do something special from the get-go to get a specialized gun..

[direcyphre]

Problem with varying stat weapons is that we don't have an expansive inventory or storage capacity to end up with spares, nor do we craft things at any expedient rate, because we have to locate the proper materials. While it would make for interesting variations person to person, the current method to acquiring weapons is in no way similar to borderlands where entire guns drop regularly off enemies.

That, and since this is a cash shop based F2P game, you would have to also drastically change how weapons and other craftables were sold. In effect, it would bring a little too much variation to make it feasible while still keeping the current F2P model.

[Kaiku]

Yea it would almost complitely thow the current model out from the window.

But...

If we had these weapons and other gear with random stats, I doubt there would be as much complaint as there is now.

Also, it would be a simple way to have more content with algorithms that can create an unlimited amount of different items.

That's why we the maps have procedural generation.

You could still buy weapons in the market. Have daily deals of items with also random stats.

Also crafting items could be purchased from there as well.

I really hope devs consider this.

[WhiteNekophus]

Random stats are good idea.

But i hate when people says "Don't join if your weapon doesn't have *something that is amazing* stats",so... well,neutral.

[direcyphre]

If there were weapons with stats worse than the current offerings, people would complain that they are wasting a massive amount of time crafting/finding a decent weapon (or think a particular weapon needs balance in x or y area). If there were weapons with stats better than the current offerings.... there would be a lot of OP weaponry. This game really isn't built in a way to handle weapons like Borderlands.

[Kaiku]

If there were weapons with stats worse than the current offerings, people would complain that they are wasting a massive amount of time crafting/finding a decent weapon (or think a particular weapon needs balance in x or y area). If there were weapons with stats better than the current offerings.... there would be a lot of OP weaponry. This game really isn't built in a way to handle weapons like Borderlands.

Making sure that the stat values didn't differ drasticically between different levels should mostly solve the problem. Level 5 weapon shouldn't be much stronger than level 1 weapon or much weaker than level 10 weapon.

If the level cap was increased to, say, 100 levels, then you could start to see drastic differences when compared to level 1 weapons.

Increasing the level cap would also mean the need for more missions.

Also you should be able to find new weapons more often than you get levels yourself. This should prevent you having too weak gear.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Kaiku

[direcyphre]

Problem is, there already are drastic differences between what levels there are, as well as the mods you put in them. Mods are a perfect example of why adding some sort of 'rarity level' would never quite end up being only slight differences. Just as well, slight differences would make it sort of pointless to bother acquiring slightly better guns if you just had better mods.

[Kaiku]

Actually I don't see there being drastic differences as a too big problem.

I like to make progress in games by leveling and acquiring better gear. And I believe Warframe is more like that than a single-player game with a story driven gameplay what you just play through.

If someone gets lucky and finds a much better weapon or mod or whatever than the one he already had, so what? He made progress and has now better chances of fighting against higher level enemies and better chances of finding even better gear.

Even if the new enemies didn't feel much harder than the ones what you just fought against before since now you've got better gear and may be a few levels higher than couple of hours ago, but knowing that you have now better chances against something what was really hard before is something what keeps people playing the game. The feel of making progress.

But if warframe isn't for such audience that enjoy that kind of progress making, then I've made a mistake and should keep these suggestions to myself.

[direcyphre]

Except mods already do this, providing drastic differences in weapon handling and DPS in various forms. Instead of raiding constantly to get that drop of a 'Godly Gorgon of Ice' I just need to find the right mods and slot them accordingly. Suffice to say, weapons that you also have to level to make them viable does not fit within the model of 'random drops'.

[Kaiku]

Each weapon has to be leveled up individually is what I dislike the most.

So I was hoping that it would be changed. And one of possible solutions could've been this Borderland-like system.

But I guess it might be a bit too late for that.

I change weapons really unfrequently, because I'd have to level them up from rank 1 again. If I do that, I have to go to a low level mission since the weapon doesn't deal enough damage. In that low level mission I don't get better mods for my warframe and other weapons since they're all low level mods.

And because all the weapons have fixed stats, you can easily say which weapon is the best. Then I buy that weapon and stick with it because I don't want to use the other weapons as they're not as good. This gives really little variation to the game.

Also how about the mods that give stats that are not either for offence or defence. Like loot radar.

So if every mod gives some boost to offence and/or to defence and loot radar. Or maybe stamina regen or such.

In the current system, you have to either choose damage boost or a loot radar. You know which one is more popular.

This leads to maxing out one single stat like shields or damage and makes mods that give other stats feel like trash.

One thing what I could propably like, is that if one mod gives boosts to almost every single stat there is.

Then you might find a mod that gives maybe a bit less damage than the one you have already, but because it also gives so big stamina boost and a slight energy boost, you then give this new mod a higher value.

Now this means that with a cost of a small amount of damage, you got yourself a better stamina regen and even a slight energy regen.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Kaiku

[lamiadomina]

I really disliked the random weapon stats in Borderlands. I'd really, really dislike if this game went that route.

Shallower players tend to get excited when the rng arbitrarily chooses to allow them a more powerful weapon. Savvier players quickly get bored with being tied to whatever tools the rng decided they could have and having very little say in their own builds, or create situations like you saw in Diablo 2 where people would figure out from documentation which items they wanted for their builds and then the next several days became a frustrating, boring grind to get the gear they needed to support the strategy and playstyle they wanted to play. Being randomly given something better than you had just results in making the game briefly easier and letting the player feel powerful for a few minutes before they're introduced to harder enemies that negate the power boost anyway - it's an illusion more intelligent players quickly see through and get exasperated with, and building a game around it removes almost any strategy or player agency.

The idea of farming for constantly mounting upgrades with astronomically better stats than your old gear just interests me way less than keeping weapons sidegrades instead of upgrades from one another so that, you know, which one to use becomes an actual decision point for the player.

[Kaiku]

It took some convincing, but I have now changed my mind.

It's not random loot and better items we need.

Doing something over and over again gets booring especially if you are forced to do that because there is no other way to "make progress" in the game. I understand that now.

Instead, we need new challenging missions and a scoreboard.

For example:

Endless survival modes.

Score attacks.

Time trials.

Real challenges!

For rewards we might get some sidegrade weapons and mods that can open up new gameplay possibilites and also cosmetic items and skins and such.

Would that be okay?

I'm really happy with the quality of the replies in this thread. Thank you for that!

[Zakalwe]

Check this post out, it might make you happy: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5353-welcome-to-the-arcade/#entry37999

They're looking at exactly the kind of content you just described.

[Jefrejtor]

What has already been said. Borderlands is Borderlands, Warframe is Warframe. BL had enemies dropping guns regularly, chests full of guns, rewards for missions in form of guns, and shops, filled with guess what. Warframe has sparse bosses, no loot chests, and no shops-only the Market, which is not adequate, since it offers all players the same weapons.

I don't really think this change would be viable. Perhaps something similar to Firefall's crafting system: specific resources boost specific stats: add more of the resources which stats you want the most, and balance it by removing resources from other areas, and/or increasing the amount of credits/time required to craft such a firearm.

[Mibu]

It took some convincing, but I have now changed my mind.

It's not random loot and better items we need.

Doing something over and over again gets booring especially if you are forced to do that because there is no other way to "make progress" in the game. I understand that now.

Instead, we need new challenging missions and a scoreboard.

For example:

Endless survival modes.

Score attacks.

Time trials.

Real challenges!

For rewards we might get some sidegrade weapons and mods that can open up new gameplay possibilites and also cosmetic items and skins and such.

Would that be okay?

I'm really happy with the quality of the replies in this thread. Thank you for that!

Endless survival modes, score attacks and time trials, etc. are just going to get abused and raged at whenever something doesn't look legit. Exploits will be found and then everyone is in uproar for a leaderboard reset or removal of XXX's scores. Why bother with leaderboard? It just shows e-peen. However there's nothing wrong with a highscore attached to your account to keep you motivated.

Also, I wouldn't call them challenges. The devs although are working on harder stuff.

[lamiadomina]

Why bother with leaderboard? It just shows e-peen. However there's nothing wrong with a highscore attached to your account to keep you motivated.

While you're objectively correct, there will always be tools who obsess over e-peen. I'd rather distract them with leaderboards than, say, tie more and more interesting weapons to ultrarare drops just so a few catassers can have something exclusive.

[Kaiku]

Keep the comments coming.

Although this thread has changed a bit from it's original topic.

Endless survival modes, score attacks and time trials, etc. are just going to get abused and raged at whenever something doesn't look legit. Exploits will be found and then everyone is in uproar for a leaderboard reset or removal of XXX's scores. Why bother with leaderboard? It just shows e-peen. However there's nothing wrong with a highscore attached to your account to keep you motivated.

Also, I wouldn't call them challenges. The devs although are working on harder stuff.

That's true, exlploits will be found and used. And a global leaderboard would make things even worse.

When I noticed in Mirror's Edge's leaderboard, that the top times are only 2 or 1 seconds, which is impossible without hacks and exploits, it made the leaderboard useless.

Edit: 100 posts, woo!

Edited January 23, 2013 by Kaiku