Instead Of Screaming "no Auction House" How Bout....

[PublikDomain]

Pros of Current Trading

1. Prices are very flexible and there is a lot of room to negotiate

2. Very personal

3. Supply/Demand is kept low by low number of buyers/sellers; market isn't flooded

 

Cons of Current Trading

1. Hard to find a buyer/seller because people have to use Chat

2. Prices aren't based on any real supply or demand; only on perceived rarity and speculation

3. You have to be online and not busy

 

Pros of an Auction House

1. Easy to find a buyer/seller

2. Easy to find prices

3. Works when offline or busy

 

Cons of an Auction House

1. Little to no room for negotiation

2. Impersonal, cold

3. Ease of access allows market to be flooded with junk items; junk items have no value

 

Conclusion

An Auction House would fix all of the negative aspects of the current method while destroying all of it's positive aspects.

 

An ideal trading system should:

1. Be personal

2. Have flexible pricing/be open to negotiations

3. Have stable supply and demand and be hard to flood; items should retain value

4. Be easy to use for buying or selling

5. Have a way to easily determine prices/trends

6. Work when busy or offline

 

A system that meets all of these goals:

1. A searchable list of items for sale, much like an AH, but without set bids or buyouts

2. Sellers can post an item or group of items for sale and a desired price

3. Potential buyers can post what they'd like to offer for the items

4. Seller chooses which offer they want to select

5. Buyer confirms their purchase

6. Trade Tokens are mailed to buyer/seller

7. Buyer/Seller meet at a Relay to complete transaction

 

An example search page:

Search: [  Ember Prime  ]
Results:

Title                        Seller                            Time Left    Desired     

Ember Prime Set    NaroPiSneer (offline)    22hr            300p

Ember Prime          BulkyKubrow (online)    24hr            310p

Ember Prime Set    BarvosDeals (online)    36hr            305p

...                            ...                                  ...                ...

 

The buyer can click on one of these to view the detailed listing and current offers:

Title: Ember Prime Set

Seller: NaroPiSneer (offline)

Time Left: 22hr

Items: Ember Prime Helmet Blueprint, Ember Prime Chassis Blueprint, Ember Prime Systems Blueprint, Ember Prime Blueprint

Desired: 300p

Buyer                                     Offer                                               

VorsMissingThird (online):  280p

DarkestNinja (online):          300p

RhinoDaBest (offline):         300p, Nyx Prime Chassis Blueprint

HighRoller (online):              310p

...                                           ...

[  Place Offer  ] [  Message Seller  ] [  View Seller Profile  ]

 

The rest of the trade process is as follows:

1. The seller can select which offer they'd like to pick.

2. The buyer must confirm that they want to purchase the item

3. The buyer and seller are both mailed a Trade Token. When a Trade Token is in a player's inventory it shows up in the top right of the screen like completed foundry items, boosters, discounts, etc.

4. When both buyer and seller are online, the system starts a private message with them and reminds them of their pending trade and suggests a Relay to use for the trade (whichever relay both players have). The system could also send invites.

5. The buyer and seller then go to a relay and to to the Trade room.

6. From there either one can select their Trade Token, which initiates a trade with the other player and auto-fills the items.

7. From there it's normal trade.

8. When completed, the trade is recorded into a searchable trade ledger

 

Limitations:

1. Sellers can have as many listings as their mastery rank

2. Buyers can place as many offers as their mastery rank

3. Placing an item in the Trading Post costs credits (current Trade Tax)

4. Placing an offer costs credits (current Trade Tax)

5. Listings only last a set amount of time (48hrs?)

6. Listings in the search list can only be sorted by Title and Time Remaining, not desired price.

7. The listing stores the sale items when it is created to prevent seller from accidentally giving it to Baro or something. The items are returned if the listing expires.

8. Trade Tokens only last 48hrs, after which time the trade expire.

9. Sellers must list items and complete trades from a Relay

 

Misc:

1. Trade tax is refundable to the Seller if the listing expires with no offers

2. Trade tax is refundable to the Buyer if they are not selected for the sale

3. Seller's items are held in escrow until the listing is completed/expires

4. Clan Trading Posts still work with the old system, allowing gifts and so on

 

Trade Ledger:

Completed sales are placed on a Trade Ledger that can be searched by potential buyers/sellers to determine what prices items actually get sold at.

Search: [  Ember Prime  ]

Listing                                                                     Offer                                                    Date          

Ember Prime Chassis Blueprint, Ember Prime ...    300p                                                   10-18-2015

Ember Prime Chassis Blueprint, Ember Prime ...    290p, Nyx Prime Chassis Blueprint    10-18-2015

Ember Prime Chassis Blueprint, Ember Prime ...    300p                                                   10-18-2015

...                                                                             ...                                                        ...

the fact that its double is cuz its 1p   you wouldn't resell by double if it was say 150 cuz none of the other listings would be at 300 they'd be at 151+

Why would I every buy something for one price and try and resell for a higher price if there are a huge number of them being sold at the lower price? I'd never get a sale unless the other 50k items were sold.

Edited October 19, 2015 by PublikDomain

[iuki.]

Reasons there is no AH and probably never will be; this would open up the market to 1000s of players and items that are worth a good amount of plat right now would be worth next to nothing due to over whelming supply. This would mean less plat sales and various items would plunge in cost. Also, having an AH would mean all those people who pray on newbs/uninformed in order to rip them off would suffer greatly; we can't have that happen, can we? In the end AH would be good for the general masses but super bad for DE and the rip off artists so odds one being put in is zero.

Edited October 19, 2015 by fizbit

[SilentFears]

See this guy is staying true to the original purpose of this post, solving the problems instead of stating them.  Props.  I see nothing wrong with your comment here seems perfect.  While it is probably withing DE capabilities it would take too long to do, it could be "labeled" as a side project to be worked on in spare time, depending on DE's internal structure, which we won't really ever know about.

 

Pretty much.

 

I would say search function on the house, but i suppose you could do it to the chat.

Big clans can and probably will abuse it, but the solo traders if they have the patience will probably out-do even the big clans who just spam buy/sell with no thought or little thought depending.

 

"See this guy is staying true to the original purpose of this post"

 

Yeah sorry - ignoring the main problem is not solving anything.

You can tax stuff as much as you want. You yourself said that an AH will crash the market. So why would we want an AH where everything is 1plat minus the Primer Chambers and the likes ?

 

By limiting the trades to one per day ? And how long before the brilliant posts "Increase the number of trades on AH per day" start - much like the AH topics themselves ?

 

Again - the main problem remains. An item once droped from a mob stays in rotation in the game. That rare as hell stance i have been using the last few months ? I dont like it - i can sell it. Can you not see the glaring problem right there ?

 

Let me put it a bit more simple.

Life Strike. Nothing special. Or at least it was. When the Dark Sectors rolled in - we farmed hundreds of it. There is players whit hundreds of it. I had 30 of it. Most players cant be arsed whit trading so the mod is "sort of" rare. 

Now that someone fainaly realized that you dont need to max the Life Strike to make it great for mele - the demand for it have risen to the sky. Result ? You can slow sell it for 40p. Or fast sell it for 25.

Tell me - what the price will be you think whit AH - a service that will allow even the most lazy person to do quick search and slap is items and go on a mission.  A game in witch you can install and uninstall mods at will and no equipment is character bound ( read special weapons, prime parts and bp's, arcane enchantment and arcane helmets ).

 

And the best part ? I dont need 20 Life Strikes for each one of my mele weapons. I NEED ONE. Every Life Strike from that point on is exsesive and i can sell. Do you get it ? Do you get hte problem ? That is in effect for every MOD in the game. I have selection of frames - and one maxed Flow for all of them. Any salution for that ?

 

 

So before you look for solution of a thing that is not in the game - maybe find a solution to the core design of the game.

 

And to solve all your "future" suggestion how to make an kick ars AH - just copy WoW ah. Here - i just delivered epic AH in one sentence.

 

But all that is pointless before you solve the problem i already mentioned. But i will keep an aye on your solution - couse DE havent found it yet.

Edited October 19, 2015 by SilentFears

[Brokenrune]

"See this guy is staying true to the original purpose of this post"

 

Yeah sorry - ignoring the main problem is not solving anything.

You can tax stuff as much as you want. You yourself said that an AH will crash the market. So why would we want an AH where everything is 1plat minus the Primer Chambers and the likes ?

 

By limiting the trades to one per day ? And how long before the brilliant posts "Increase the number of trades on AH per day" start - much like the AH topics themselves ?

 

Again - the main problem remains. An item once droped from a mob stays in rotation in the game. That rare as hell stance i have been using the last few months ? I dont like it - i can sell it. Can you not see the glaring problem right there ?

 

Let me put it a bit more simple.

Life Strike. Nothing special. Or at least it was. When the Dark Sectors rolled in - we farmed hundreds of it. There is players whit hundreds of it. I had 30 of it. Most players cant be arsed whit trading so the mod is "sort of" rare. 

Now that someone fainaly realized that you dont need to max the Life Strike to make it great for mele - the demand for it have risen to the sky. Result ? You can slow sell it for 40p. Or fast sell it for 25.

Tell me - what the price will be you think whit AH - a service that will allow even the most lazy person to do quick search and slap is items and go on a mission.  A game in witch you can install and uninstall mods at will and no equipment is character bound ( read special weapons, prime parts and bp's, arcane enchantment and arcane helmets ).

 

And the best part ? I dont need 20 Life Strikes for each one of my mele weapons. I NEED ONE. Every Life Strike from that point on is exsesive and i can sell. Do you get it ? Do you get hte problem ? That is in effect for every MOD in the game. I have selection of frames - and one maxed Flow for all of them. Any salution for that ?

 

 

So before you look for solution of a thing that is not in the game - maybe find a solution to the core design of the game.

 

And to solve all your "future" suggestion how to make an kick ars AH - just copy WoW ah. Here - i just delivered epic AH in one sentence.

 

But all that is pointless before you solve the problem i already mentioned. But i will keep an aye on your solution - couse DE havent found it yet.

out of curiosity how does wow's auction house work? I am no wow player so I don't know, perhaps we can implement it here?

[PublikDomain]

out of curiosity how does wow's auction house work? I am no wow player so I don't know, perhaps we can implement it here?

Standard faire, I think. Post an item for a price and a date and then either a seller buys it for your set price or they bid. Instant delivery via mail for buyer/seller. No limit to number of posts/bids. Flooded with junk.

[immolator1001]

it is worth noting that 20% of players will ALWAYS hold 80% of the platinum, no exceptions.  Even if you were to take the entire communities platinum and divide it evenly among players, 20% would eventually hold 80%.

Oh look an unsubstantiated fact!

[ChameleonDude]

I can't get multiquote to work at the moment, so for the replies I got, this is for you guys.

 

Yes, prices will even out. A rare, expensive prime part or a prisma weapon with say 50p might go down to 30p. That's fine by me. How about all of those mods worth between 1p - 10p. You know, the vast majority of tradeable items? People hardly bother to sell those to begin with, that's how they keep any value they have. This things will instantly crash down to 1p, or whatever artificial lower limit is set for them and won't be traded. Supply won't simply be greater than demand, it will be able to collapse in on itself and form a black hole, swallowing up the demand and the economy with it.

 

As for specific points, nobody would buy items at 1p to resell for 2p or whatever. The supply will still be there, the 1p sell orders would appear again quickly. Instead of a potential profit for the wannabe investor, they'll be down 200p and have a pile of Flow mods they can't get rid of. And the import order comparison, yes, it is similar to that. Except instead of cheap Chinese goods that are of lower quality and a bit cheaper... bread, milk, eggs, meat, vegetables, etc would all drop down to £/$0.01 and the supply would keep on coming. Great for the buyer in the beginning, but soon things will just become worthless. Actually, no. My examples there, those are items we'll need a constant supply of. Items in Warframe, you need one and that's it - you don't need that item again. That just makes the problem even worse!

 

I'm not some guy who plays the economy to get rich, I simply just don't want to see this game's economy destroyed by a system that doesn't suit this game in particular.

Edited October 19, 2015 by ChameleonDude

[ZukaBazuka]

I can't get multiquote to work at the moment, so for the replies I got, this is for you guys.

 

Yes, prices will even out. A rare, expensive prime part or a prisma weapon with say 50p might go down to 30p. That's fine by me. How about all of those mods worth between 1p - 10p. You know, the vast majority of tradeable items? People hardly bother to sell those to begin with, that's how they keep any value they have. This things will instantly crash down to 1p, or whatever artificial lower limit is set for them and won't be traded. Supply won't simply be greater than demand, it will be able to collapse in on itself and form a black hole, swallowing up the demand and the economy with it.

 

I'm not some guy who plays the economy to get rich, I simply just don't want to see this game's economy destroyed by a system that doesn't suit this game in particular.

How about making a limit on the minimum price for item listed? Lets say 10p. That would make a lot of junk item to be somewhat harder to sell. Then you can only put up 1 item of the things you have a duplicate off. Would take 2 trading for a player to put up stuff on the market instead of 1 by doing it through other players.

[Greatheart]

Make AH clan only. No need to worry about the economy as a whole as it'll be split.

 

Promotes bigger clans and if anyone is screwing people over they'll leave for better clans.

 

Trade chat is still an option for "hardcore" traders.

 

Also +1 for MR restricted. MR20 = 20 trades per day.

[SilentFears]

How about making a limit on the minimum price for item listed? Lets say 10p. That would make a lot of junk item to be somewhat harder to sell. Then you can only put up 1 item of the things you have a duplicate off. Would take 2 trading for a player to put up stuff on the market instead of 1 by doing it through other players.

 

That can almost work .... almost.

Minimum limit of 10 plat per item. So now there is gona be 10 000 Flows for 10p each. Good luck selling one in the wait list of 8 000 before you.

 

Next part is again a fail.

Like we established even players whit 20 active frames still use one Blind Rage and one Flow. Every card drop from that point on is one more card to be sold. So the guy that have all the warframe mods can effectevlet put a duplicate for each one of them. Multiplie that by the number of MR15- MR20 players in the game and tell me how long is Blind Rage be worth more then the min possible price ?

 

 

 

Make AH clan only. No need to worry about the economy as a whole as it'll be split.

 

Promotes bigger clans and if anyone is screwing people over they'll leave for better clans.

 

Trade chat is still an option for "hardcore" traders.

 

Also +1 for MR restricted. MR20 = 20 trades per day.

 

 

Moon clans consists of 1000 players. It will create a micro economy's for each clan. It will not only kill trading but will also foster harsh feeling between clan members. "OMG that guy riped me for 200 plat for that Tempo Royale that was just in the void trader". And even ignoring all of that - you still get the problem of supplie been infinity higher then demand.

 

And not last - it will kill any non Moon clan out there. Why sit in shadow clan when you can join Moon clan and get all prime parts and mods for dirt cheap ?

[DxAdder]

discussing ways to limit said AH such that it works and giant clans can't manipulate it, or at least make it very hard to do so because you know it'll happen regardless of what you do..

 

it is worth noting that 20% of players will ALWAYS hold 80% of the platinum, no exceptions.  Even if you were to take the entire communities platinum and divide it evenly among players, 20% would eventually hold 80%.

 

Also do not make any posts that are even vaguely similar to "no auction house"   This post is to discuss ways of making an auction house feasible NOT if we should have one or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Ive seen several AH topics and here are a few ways to limit it, as suggested by other people.

 

 

 

MR = number of items any player can post on the AH.

 

This makes sense, as were already limited by MR for trading anyway.  So a mr 20 can only post 20 items.  And given that the majority of players are not high mastery people will have to prioritize what items they post instead of spamming all their crap.

 

 

 

Another option i have seen is..

 

1 of each item per player per day.

 

This method lets you post as many items as you want, but only one of each specific item.

 

 

 

What does the community think and what limits or features or whatever do you guys have that would make an AH feasible.

 

The Only way an AH can be "Manipulated" is IF you have access to unlimited trades (which we don't) and no transparency about past sales.

 

If Item X on average sells for 20 Plat and suddenly for no reason goes to 50 plat, people will wait it out to the price comes back down.

 

There has to be fee to list which is non-refundable and a percentage fee to the AH when the item sells.

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

Any kind of AH or even player shop ( which I'm more in favor of by the way ) is gonna greatly reduce the value of everything, the prices right now are only as high as they are because of the small micricosmic window of possible sellers and buyers at any given time.

That aside..

The best and most enjoyable economic experiance I ever had was in PhantasyStar Universe

Every player had an apartment with the option to open a shop. When they opend their shop they got an additional "shop" room complete with a showcase counter and a little register/computer sitting on the counter.

You would check the computer for what ever item you were looking for using a slew of helpfull filters, and you could immediatly see the going price for any item.

If you wanted to buy an item it would teleport you to the sellers shop you'd run up to the counter and by the item.
There was a bulitin board where you could leave a msg for the seller if you had a counter offer or wanted to propose a trade, and there was even a lil robot that stood infront of the counter that displayed a text messag the player set every time someone entered or bought an item like " Welcome to my shop" or "Thanks for the money Chump" 

There was even a jukebox that could play a wide array of background music.

I you wered selling high volume materials you could just stand there and watch a steady stream of players come into your shop, stand there and talk with them, wave thank them for buying etc.




 

[robertgk2017]

 

And the best part ? I dont need 20 Life Strikes for each one of my mele weapons. I NEED ONE. Every Life Strike from that point on is exsesive and i can sell. Do you get it ? Do you get hte problem ? That is in effect for every MOD in the game. I have selection of frames - and one maxed Flow for all of them. Any salution for that ?

 

 

19 life strikes( minus 1 for your melee weapons) at a lower price is better than 1 at a higher price, theres margins involved yes but in general that would be better.

 

Take Ferrari vs Honda.  

A Ferrari is much more expensive and a much more nicer car.

However Honda sells 300,000 cars for every 1 Ferrari

 

not saying this specific ratio would exist in the game, but you get the idea. 

 

According to warframe trading the price of 1 life strike right now is 35 plat, assuming you can get a buyer, and assuming the price is up to date.

 

If this AH went into effect and the price drops down to 5p, you can sell all 19 and make 95 plat instead.  even if it went to 2p you still make 38 plat total.  like i said margins involved.  if it went to 1p you'd make 19 plat, however because thousands of life strikes would be available at 1p, they would likely get bought up and hoarded till the price went up, even a little bit would mean profit;.

 

obviously on launch day for the AH the prices would be wacked up, but give it a months time (or more if needed) for the playerbase to get used to it and the prices would stabilize.

 

 

Eve Onlines Market is 100% player controlled and its the best market i know of.  In eve there is no such thing as a bound item, no matter what it is you can trade it for money.  When new stuff is released prices for that stuff is really really high then it nosedives as people lose interest or more stuff is released, then it balances out.  

 

 

Why would this not work in warframe?  honestly if you just limit it to mr = items listed per day, or 1 of each item per day, or both, and thats it i think it would work just fine after it stabilizes.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Use the trading subforum, there is your auction house.

 

Not very effective. It's very difficult to connect buyers and sellers with the trading subforum, only slightly better than trade chat.

Anyway, I figure you've gotta start by not obliterating the relevance of dojo trading posts/trade chat.

 

So I figure having a minimum price for prime parts from the auction house (say, Darvo's cut) that's always taken out, with the selling player getting anything leftover after that. Meanwhile, trade chat has no plat tax so if you want a really good deal, you lurk trade chat just like you do now. But if you want a prime part with no hassle or want to sell with no hassle understanding that you won't get as much plat, you can put it up in the auction house with the full understanding that it's not as profitable (because it's more convenient, natch.)

 

So for instance. Common prime parts would have a flat plat tax of 20p. Uncommon ones 30/40p and rare ones 60p. (Numbers subject to change of course.)

 

Now if I wanted to sell my rare ash systems BP, I would have to set it at 60p just to break even and then jack up the price more to get any profit at all. Maybe 80p to give me 20p

 

Meanwhile, I could hop on trade chat and sell it for 60p of pure profit, or whatever ash systems are going for these days.

 

This way, there's no "common crash" where common prime parts are valueless (or at least less valuable than the current system where you can get some prime frames for 40p) but we get the advantages an auction house brings - we don't have to spend hours and hours lurking trade chat spamming WTB over and over instead of playing the game. 

[XaelathRavenstorm]

Auction houses will destroy "free trading". I've played some MMOs before that have this system and people just fight to be on the 1st page by putting items at insanely low prices just to sell them.

If they implement do implement auction houses in the future no one would be able to make profit anymore, all your grind will be worthless.

MMOs I've played that have Auction Houses :

Cabal

RF

Rohan

TRUST me you don't know how devastating auction houses would be for the game.

The best solution for this without ruining Warframe's economy is by simply have a chat tab for Buying, Selling and Trading + an option to merge them all in one view for the ones eyeing for profit.

PROBLEM SOLVED

Edited October 19, 2015 by XaelathRavenstorm

[Acidulant]

Problem with Auction House in these types of game is that supply is infinite while demand is low.

 

Once you've acquired one item, you don't need it ever again. Since video game items are not resource limited(except for time) and can be produced infinitely, everything tradable in game will ultimately be worth nothing, unless constant, high volume influx of new players is happening.

 

What trade chat is doing, is to artificially mini-fy the market. At any given time, due to how inefficient trading chat and trading forum is, the supply and demand are ridiculously small, and therefore current platinum prices are accepted. Once an auction house is implemented, now that market is expanded to the entire Warframe community, and even the rarest of the rarest Prime parts & Primed mod prices will plummet.

 

This is bad for both players and Digital Extremes. Let me explain.

 

1. This means that everything tradable in-game will be worth almost no platinum compared to before, while the in-game Market, implemented by Digital Extreme itself, will retain its current price. This means that it will be substantially harder for someone to buy anything off from DE's market since their platinum income will be abysmal.

 

1+. Also to compensate how many of the in-game items can be generated compared to how many people actually want it, DE will most likely lower the drop rate for the sake of the entire market.

 

2. Also, this will lower the revenue for DE. Since tradable items will now cost substantially less amount of platinum compared to before, those who like to buy platinum and trade for what they want will buy less platinum compared to before. In addition to 1., the DE's Market will maybe somewhat offset the price crash of tradable items, but the amount of tradable items in game far outnumber the amount of items sold in the DE's market. Not to mention almost everything DE's selling in the markets are grindable, except for cosmetics.

 

 

Other MMORPG games have various measures implemented to counter this. Enhancement(Item breaks upon failure), Enchant(Item breaks upon failure), Gamble, Dungeon Entrance Fees, Breakable Items, (Required)Consumables, etc, etc, etc...

 

Warframe has none.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Acidulant

[DxAdder]

Problem with Auction House in these types of game is that supply is infinite while demand is low.

 

Once you've acquired one item, you don't need it ever again. Since video game items are not resource limited(except for time) and can be produced infinitely, everything tradable in game will ultimately be worth nothing, unless constant, high volume influx of new players is happening.

 

What trade chat is doing, is to artificially mini-fy the market. At any given time, due to how inefficient trading chat and trading forum is, the supply and demand are ridiculously small, and therefore current platinum prices are accepted. Once an auction house is implemented, now that market is expanded to the entire Warframe community, and even the rarest of the rarest Prime parts & Primed mod prices will plummet.

 

This is bad for both players and Digital Extremes. Let me explain.

 

1. This means that everything tradable in-game will be worth almost no platinum compared to before, while the in-game Market, implemented by Digital Extreme itself, will retain its current price. This means that it will be substantially harder for someone to buy anything off from DE's market since their platinum income will be abysmal.

 

1+. Also to compensate how many of the in-game items can be generated compared to how many people actually want it, DE will most likely lower the drop rate for the sake of the entire market.

 

2. Also, this will lower the revenue for DE. Since tradable items will now cost substantially less amount of platinum compared to before, those who like to buy platinum and trade for what they want will buy less platinum compared to before. In addition to 1., the DE's Market will maybe somewhat offset the price crash of tradable items, but the amount of tradable items in game far outnumber the amount of items sold in the DE's market. Not to mention almost everything DE's selling in the markets are grindable, except for cosmetics.

 

 

Other MMORPG games have various measures implemented to counter this. Enhancement(Item breaks upon failure), Enchant(Item breaks upon failure), Gamble, Dungeon Entrance Fees, Breakable Items, (Required)Consumables, etc, etc, etc...

 

Warframe has none.

 

World or Warcraft has the same thing and there are few issues with over supply for items that are "Rare"

 

But you are correct in that certain mods/parts RNG would need to change to create better defined ties of rare/uncommon/common.

 

Also remember it's an auction with minimum bids and buyouts so it's possible to have many of the same items listed and 

be active at once.

 

It can work but the trade channel doesn't, it's for veteran players only.

 

For new players I'm sure there are some who have walked away from the games since they couldn't use the trade channel.

[robertgk2017]

Auction houses will destroy "free trading". I've played some MMOs before that have this system and people just fight to be on the 1st page by putting items at insanely low prices just to sell them.

If they implement do implement auction houses in the future no one would be able to make profit anymore, all your grind will be worthless.

MMOs I've played that have Auction Houses :

Cabal

RF

Rohan

TRUST me you don't know how devastating auction houses would be for the game.

The best solution for this without ruining Warframe's economy is by simply have a chat tab for Buying, Selling and Trading + an option to merge them all in one view for the ones eyeing for profit.

PROBLEM SOLVED

 

that doesnt solve anything

 

that just splits up the problem into multiple chats instead of 1 big chat.  

 

 

if an auction house destroys economies then why does it work perfectly fine for Eve Online, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter, Aion, Rift, just to name a few.  And most of these examples have very few limitations or restrictions, eve online have none what so ever.

 

Ive played all of these examples alot and ive used the equivalent of an AH on all of them.  Where is this economy destruction you speak of because i don't see it at all.

[XaelathRavenstorm]

that doesnt solve anything

 

that just splits up the problem into multiple chats instead of 1 big chat.  

 

 

if an auction house destroys economies then why does it work perfectly fine for Eve Online, Star Trek Online, Neverwinter, Aion, Rift, just to name a few.  And most of these examples have very few limitations or restrictions, eve online have none what so ever.

 

Ive played all of these examples alot and ive used the equivalent of an AH on all of them.  Where is this economy destruction you speak of because i don't see it at all.

It will destroy Warframe's economy because it will make a sudden shift on the market.

Plus we didn't start with an auction house(so we're used to what we have now which is great) but those MMOs did so they're stable on their own system.

[XaelathRavenstorm]

Problem with Auction House in these types of game is that supply is infinite while demand is low.

 

Once you've acquired one item, you don't need it ever again. Since video game items are not resource limited(except for time) and can be produced infinitely, everything tradable in game will ultimately be worth nothing, unless constant, high volume influx of new players is happening.

 

What trade chat is doing, is to artificially mini-fy the market. At any given time, due to how inefficient trading chat and trading forum is, the supply and demand are ridiculously small, and therefore current platinum prices are accepted. Once an auction house is implemented, now that market is expanded to the entire Warframe community, and even the rarest of the rarest Prime parts & Primed mod prices will plummet.

 

This is bad for both players and Digital Extremes. Let me explain.

 

1. This means that everything tradable in-game will be worth almost no platinum compared to before, while the in-game Market, implemented by Digital Extreme itself, will retain its current price. This means that it will be substantially harder for someone to buy anything off from DE's market since their platinum income will be abysmal.

 

1+. Also to compensate how many of the in-game items can be generated compared to how many people actually want it, DE will most likely lower the drop rate for the sake of the entire market.

 

2. Also, this will lower the revenue for DE. Since tradable items will now cost substantially less amount of platinum compared to before, those who like to buy platinum and trade for what they want will buy less platinum compared to before. In addition to 1., the DE's Market will maybe somewhat offset the price crash of tradable items, but the amount of tradable items in game far outnumber the amount of items sold in the DE's market. Not to mention almost everything DE's selling in the markets are grindable, except for cosmetics.

 

 

Other MMORPG games have various measures implemented to counter this. Enhancement(Item breaks upon failure), Enchant(Item breaks upon failure), Gamble, Dungeon Entrance Fees, Breakable Items, (Required)Consumables, etc, etc, etc...

 

Warframe has none.

This is the most accurate explanation on AH's problems I've seen so far.

It wouldn't just hurt the people and the economy but DE as well.

[Dedjal]

This is the most accurate explanation on AH's problems I've seen so far.

It wouldn't just hurt the people and the economy but DE as well.

DE would benefit from it by taking an % in fees, thus effectively removing more platinum from players, generating more platinum sales.

[SilentFears]

19 life strikes( minus 1 for your melee weapons) at a lower price is better than 1 at a higher price, theres margins involved yes but in general that would be better.

 

Take Ferrari vs Honda.  

A Ferrari is much more expensive and a much more nicer car.

However Honda sells 300,000 cars for every 1 Ferrari

 

not saying this specific ratio would exist in the game, but you get the idea. 

 

According to warframe trading the price of 1 life strike right now is 35 plat, assuming you can get a buyer, and assuming the price is up to date.

 

If this AH went into effect and the price drops down to 5p, you can sell all 19 and make 95 plat instead.  even if it went to 2p you still make 38 plat total.  like i said margins involved.  if it went to 1p you'd make 19 plat, however because thousands of life strikes would be available at 1p, they would likely get bought up and hoarded till the price went up, even a little bit would mean profit;.

 

obviously on launch day for the AH the prices would be wacked up, but give it a months time (or more if needed) for the playerbase to get used to it and the prices would stabilize.

 

 

Eve Onlines Market is 100% player controlled and its the best market i know of.  In eve there is no such thing as a bound item, no matter what it is you can trade it for money.  When new stuff is released prices for that stuff is really really high then it nosedives as people lose interest or more stuff is released, then it balances out.  

 

 

Why would this not work in warframe?  honestly if you just limit it to mr = items listed per day, or 1 of each item per day, or both, and thats it i think it would work just fine after it stabilizes.

 

And once again you missed the point to no end. So lets start shall we.

 

1. 19 Life strikes at price of 1plat is not better then one life strike at 35 plat. Dunno how you figured its better - but its not. And yes hte price is up to date ( and slightly higher if you have the time ) and yes i can sell it in less then 10 mins.

 

2. If AH came into play all the hundreds and thousands of Life strikes rotting in players inventory's will come into play. The price will not be 5 plat - the price will be lowest possible set in the AH - aka 1 plat. So tell me whit a rare item that take hours to "grind" and sells for 1 plat - why the living hell would i:

A) Grind it.

B) Trade it.

C) How exactly do that help a new player who got lucky and instead of getting easy 20p ( for a newb ) he is getting easy 1p ?

 

3. Also this is not WoT. The currency we use here is buyed whit real money. THis is not some virtual currency that we can grind by killing orks ( or npc space ships)  and then spend 5000 of it to buy 5000 Life Strikes while been unsure if 10 000 more life strikes are not gona hit the market. Who in his right mind would do that ? How old are you ?

 

4. Even a litle bit means profit ? So let me get this right. I will buy 5000 Life Strikes at a price of 1plat. THen hold them off for "few months" and then sell them the next six months for 2 plat ( if 10 000 more Life Strikes dont hit the market) and get a proffit ??!?!? Have you ever and i mean ever traded in any of the games you listed EVER ?

 

5. Eve Online market - nize. Again you compare a game whit huge time walls in it. Let me elaborate. I can right now make a new account in Warframe. And in exactly one day i will be able to farm rare mods on Earth that i can sell for plat.

 

In Eve Online i can make an account right now - and spend the next two years gaining the ship skills to be able to then corss the star map and sell an item whit profit - if a pirate dont blow the crap out of me.

 

In WoW i can go in and make an account. THen spend a month grinding and leveling - so i can then go into an end game zone and farm flowers or ore while compeating whit 50 othere players for the same 10 resorce node's . And then finaly i can make some gold......

 

Get it ? All this games have huge progression. And whats more - the core gameplay in this game's is such that you need constant suplie of items - ore for crafting, silk for crafting, flowers nad herbs for potions, meat for food. This are items you use once and then you need to recraft then meaning you need to buy more resources . This is warframe - where i get a mod and from that point on i never need another one of them.

 

 

But i see you just cant be arsed and you are lazy to use trade chat and insist on us getting AH and crashing the market. 

There is a way a solution. Each mod can be installed on a frame or a weapon. But once installed on said frame or weapon - the mod then cannot be use on any other frame or weapon. So for each frame and weapon you will need to grind and level up each mod multiple times. Done.

 

Ofc you will cry your ayes out if this was to happen - but thats how you make an AH viable in game like Warframe. And i for once - just cant wait my grind to be multiplied by 5 000 just so you can sell your crapy mods and prime parts for 1 plat without having to interact whit ohtere players.

 

 

 

DE would benefit from it by taking an % in fees, thus effectively removing more platinum from players, generating more platinum sales.

 

Oh yeah DE will swim in plat if they tax the AH. I mean an normal frame on the DE Market is what ? 220-270 plat ? A Prime Set on AH will be what ? 20 ? Yeah all them fat profits DE will collect.

And as far as i know the current "inflated" plat prices in trade chat - are bringing DE a lot more money - you know considering some Mods and items there sell for 300-1000 plat ....

But you are right DE will make a lot more by introducing 10% tax on 1 plat trades in AH....... 

Edited October 20, 2015 by SilentFears

[OssomSagax]

discussing ways to limit said AH such that it works and giant clans can't manipulate it, or at least make it very hard to do so because you know it'll happen regardless of what you do..

 

it is worth noting that 20% of players will ALWAYS hold 80% of the platinum, no exceptions.  Even if you were to take the entire communities platinum and divide it evenly among players, 20% would eventually hold 80%.

 

Also do not make any posts that are even vaguely similar to "no auction house"   This post is to discuss ways of making an auction house feasible NOT if we should have one or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Ive seen several AH topics and here are a few ways to limit it, as suggested by other people.

 

 

 

MR = number of items any player can post on the AH.

 

This makes sense, as were already limited by MR for trading anyway.  So a mr 20 can only post 20 items.  And given that the majority of players are not high mastery people will have to prioritize what items they post instead of spamming all their crap.

 

 

 

Another option i have seen is..

 

1 of each item per player per day.

 

This method lets you post as many items as you want, but only one of each specific item.

 

 

 

What does the community think and what limits or features or whatever do you guys have that would make an AH feasible.

Instead of an auction house, have 'market stalls' that are rented by clans for member usage within the relays.

Basically, a room filled with terminals, each bearing the insignia of the owning clan.

 

Players belonging to a clan may add their items to thier clan's 'market stall' for sale, with 1-10% of plat of each sale going to the clan vault, where it may be used by the lords of that clan to purchase resources for research and construction only.

 

Any player may purchase from these stalls.

 

In this way, players may search for items to buy from other players, whilst contributing to the community and helping thier own clan dojo be expanded.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Jurak

[ChameleonDude]

How about making a limit on the minimum price for item listed? Lets say 10p. That would make a lot of junk item to be somewhat harder to sell. Then you can only put up 1 item of the things you have a duplicate off. Would take 2 trading for a player to put up stuff on the market instead of 1 by doing it through other players.

 

That would solve nothing. Instead of useless, unsellable items being flooded on at 1p each, they'd be listed at 10p each instead - even less likely to sell. Without a limit, letting them drop to 1p, they weren't going to sell at all, so this lower limit just kills things further. And no duplicate listing from the same player, sure. Instead of 500,000 players listing 10 of an item, they'll only list one at a time - that's only 500,000 of this item for 10p each! Yeah, it's still unsellable and still has an infinite supply with very limited demand.

 

Taking up a player's trades is the only part of that suggestion which would make them think twice, but just remember... a lot of these players wouldn't have used the trade system before the auction house kicked in. They aren't going to be reserving these trades.

 

Unless every junk item is made desirable as a consumable item, not a one time purchase and keep/use forever - most of the items in the game will crash to rock bottom if everyone jumps on an auction house-style system. It's not appropriate for this game's economy.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1. 19 Life strikes at price of 1plat is not better then one life strike at 35 plat

 

False

 

DE would benefit from it by taking an % in fees, thus effectively removing more platinum from players, generating more platinum sales.

True

 

DE does NOT benefit from plat endlessly circulating in the player market; it only had to be paid for once.  As long as it remains, and no one has to purchase more then they are not getting any additional benefit from it, even if you buy something for 100,000 plat.

 

An AH with a 10% tax (rounded up to a whole plat) does benefit DE, because it takes plat out of circulation with every transaction.  Your 35p transaction gives nothing back to DE.  Selling 10 life strikes for 2 plat each takes 2 plat out of circulation.  That's 2 plat that has to be repurchased in order to be used again.  Now multiply that by the hundreds of thousands or millions of plat that will be passing through an AH weekly.

 

A 10% tax rounded to the nearest plat means no one will sell anything for less than 10 plat anyway.