Its Not About The Nerfs Its About Dynamics

[A.T.R.A.]

NO TL:DR this is for the fans who actually care for the game please read and give feedback and not junk posts

but if you want to skip the intro the real post start at the #### line

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ive been playing warframe since oh about june or august of 2013 and just now decided to really use the forums to express ideas (though like many other forums i feel like they wont be looked at either way and thats just me)

 

today i went through what would probably be 8 or 9 pages of posts in the general section of the forum and i saw a LOT of post asking for nerfs to this or "please remove this"

 

some were pretty relevant and i understand some things need to get balanced out sometimes that leads to our favourite frame either getting its room clearing power heavily nerfed or just completely reworked and turned into something different due to it being abused or just in general way to dam strong

 

 

but asking for things to be nerfed all the time or changed isnt what warframes needs

seriously not at all

 

of course a mandatory request for content is what any fan wants especially a long term fan or a veteran of the game

you know the guys who have literally EVERYTHING there is to have.

 

and perhaps getting a new planet and a new faction with some new tilesets would be nice and could sate us for a while but eventually sooner or later we will hit the same wall because the new content only moved it back a little bit making humpty walk back with his cracked shell to sit on it once more

 

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what warframe needs currently is more dynamic missions

missions that actually change on us

when we go into survival we know all were going to be doing is sitting or running around killing whatever we see for as long as we can.

or if we go into a spy we know that we just gotta hack 3 terminals and were done.

now im not saying that survival needs to be completely changed or anything!

im just saying it would be nice to have some randomness to the usuall.

 

THIS is what can really make the game turn into a "WELP gotta wait til next big update or event then ill play again" situation. just going into the same thing doing whatever linear, straight forward thing it wants you to do and then leaving.

 

 

should spy always be just a "Oh you triggered the alarm? Oh no! you lost your secret item? welp just abort mission and come back youll get it this time"?

while others have their opinions of course like they should

my opinion is ....

NO NO NO NO NO NO.....just ...no

(again not saying it needs to change entirely or changerd at all just suggesting some randomness)

 

when you trigger an alarm in a spy missiong or trigger something else in ANY mission there should be a %chance that something new actually happens

i mean seriously PEOPLE KNOW WARFRAME FOR ITS RNG

why not put it to use? in more ways than just some dam loot? hell, use it as another wall to hide MORE loot!

now before you raise that pitch fork on ^that statement im not saying put a 5% chance item behind a 5% chance container that only shows up in the mission that only has a 5% chance to occur during a certain mission on ceres

by NO means do i mean that! so dont stab me with that burning pitch fork ok?

 

so to save our frames we love before the nerf squad of haters start complaining about something new they want nerfed (and as pointed out im not blaming a specific person or group of people saying they go around causing this)

lets maybe start spewing out some ideas on what missions could have added to them to make them a little more surprizing rather than just pointlessly harder for the point of just making them harder

and im not saying there arnt some really cool ideas out there but im seeing more comlaints about how this is to weak or this is to strong rather than ideas for content that can put those strengths or weaknesses to use.

 

weve already fixed the issue with new players having way to hard of a time to get anywhere in the game

can we start fixing the issue of vets getting to bored? and let me rephrase this i dont mean vets just dont like the end game or are priority number 1 but i would at least like a small addition to the game that can change up the grind every so often rather than every so ...... not often...and im not saying something as big as a new planet or a whole new mission type every end of the month but something perhaps changing up the alerts making them crazy random like "go kill this, targets in an escape pod,chase after it with liset, kill body gaurds, invade ship, proceed on original mission"

 

and i understand it depends on the person and the of course maybe youve just grinded out everything and there just isnt anything left to intrigue you of course thats going to happen but right now i think it happens far to fast

all of the missions in the game can be found on the first 2 planets than after that its mostly just the scenery that changes and an enemy or 3

 

 

make ceres so its not just a scenery change when killing grineer

make it so a random ! storm blows in and our tenno comms go down and we need to run for our lives to get to an extraction point where we can call for help or something then have to escape in our ships to orbit and if we get followed turn in fight with archwing (and really make archwing a little more intersting and viable please i havnt even lvld odonata yet it bores me that much)

 

and how does this have anything to do with the nerfing of things?

well if those things were more viable in harder new area than just being OP everywhere we wouldnt ask for straight up nerfs

if saryns ult didnt just nuke an entire room in a new area but rather made the enemy laugh even without that enemy being a level 200 it just had high resist or a ability that made it less effective but the viral proc still helped in lowering a mass ammount of enemies health by half then it wouldnt be OP but would still be usefull

 

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Just like in the devstream steve said that warframe is a F2P and they do kinda need money and platinum is how they make that money so it only makes since to add more to warframe so that they can make more things for us to enjoy in the new area of warframe

Edited October 19, 2015 by NiNjA-MiGeT

[AdunSaveMe]

I was going to say something about keeping complaints and suggestions separate, but that'd be pretty hypocritical.

 

But, I dislike both the assumption that players are the reason for nerfs & request them often and the suggestion that we add even more needless RNG to missions. Core gameplay should always be the same; if you go into an exterminate you do it to play an exterminate mission, not to get surprised halfway through by something you don't want to do.

 

Stopping vets from getting bored is not something that needs a lot of attention right now. If someone burns hundreds of hours on a game, cool. New content and game improvements come regularly. But suggesting that vets should be prioritized in such a way just isn't a suggestion that works. Every game has a limit, and every game can only be played for so long.

[Koler.]

Saryn is my favourite frame and especially the nuke build BUT I do agree that Saryn needs some rework. Yeah I know she already being reworked but if Miasma won't be reworked the proper way then it's literally no point in any balance since Saryn destroys it with her nuke farts (sorry I had to say it). And before hating me, remember I do love Saryn as much as anyone here. The problem with content that all we need is not new maps but new difficulty. But here comes the problem. If it's too easy people on forums cry that it's too boring. But if it's hard people start crying it's too hard (even tho I do agree that Balistas on Draco needs to be reworked. Because getting one shoted as soon as Balista spawns gets really frustrating). DE's already tried the difficultry spike with raids but honestly..how often you try raid? Because there is no point without proper reward. I have a little idea that might would make warframe much more interestning. Make simple frames (not prime ones) harder to get. A long quest for every frame. That actually would make player strive for something. Not just farm Alad V for Valkyr. But I'm pretty sure people will start crying that it's too hard and they want everything free and now. Games being to casualised because it's the only way to attract new players. At some point it's right. Since not everyone have months to post on forums or play game 24/7. People tend to have jobs.

[A.T.R.A.]

 

But, I dislike both the assumption that players are the reason for nerfs & request them often and the suggestion that we add even more needless RNG to missions. Core gameplay should always be the same; if you go into an exterminate you do it to play an exterminate mission, not to get surprised halfway through by something you don't want to do.

 

Stopping vets from getting bored is not something that needs a lot of attention right now. If someone burns hundreds of hours on a game, cool. New content and game improvements come regularly. But suggesting that vets should be prioritized in such a way just isn't a suggestion that works. Every game has a limit, and every game can only be played for so long.

i didnt mean to say that its a certain group of people that are the sole reason behinds the nerfs i understand the devs just think that hey maybe we should take a look at this and change something it seems weird

 

and if i came across saying vets need priority in anyway than i am sorry i didnt mean that in any way im just seeing that after playing for 2.5 years and weve only gotten interception and survival as new missions ehhh im really just asking for new content here like i tried to express in my post

 

i understand some people jsut want to go play spy or survival or exterminate like you said and they should have that freedom

but i dont think i could be the only warframe player in the world who wouldnt welcome some dynamic sudden changes when doing something were already use to or in some players cases numb to

[(XBOX)JasonsNightmare]

To the OP, you have a wonderful idea, you just need to explain it more. I do believe that we need dynamic missions, and I have made more than my fair share of posts about how the game can be made less artificially difficult. Your suggestion, with a little tweaking, could go over perfectly with a new perspective on enemy, loot, and damage scaling. The Infested Juggernaut is a good example of low-tier RNG changes to a game. Having a mini-boss randomly spawn in a mission is a wonderful idea, and it breaks apart an Exterminate mission very well. More sever changes could be implemented less often, such as modifying Sabotage missions on Ceres or Phobos to infiltrate a new part of the base in order to survive an incoming storm, then find an escape route and evac after a short "mobile defense" of guarding the control panel and cutting down the Grineer spilling into the hallway.

 

Or having Void Exterminates morph into a Crossfire when the Grineer or Corpus, or even Infested, if you are feeling testy, start warping in through a torsion generator. An alternate Defense mode where the cryopod disappears, and you simply have to survive for as long as you can, but the enemies are more aggressive. An alternate or a new raid, where one half runs a survival mission to draw off enemy fire, and the other half runs a massive spy mission to collect the rewards and data on the raid boss's location. Make the Void tiles actively change and move to try to trap and harm players, like a labyrinth.

[KuroShiranui]

I wish OP could use punctuations, it's a bit hard to read. :/

[VKhaun]

Can't really agree with anything here.

 

Sure, dynamic missions would be great, but that's pretty vague and everything you've tried to attach I disagree with.

 

After playing for two years nothing can really happen in a mission that makes me more interested unless it actually changes how I'm playing, as in it makes me react in some way. As long as strategies like "I'm invincible all the time and immune to everything." or the devs allow "playstyles" where you press the number 4 on your keyboard and wipe a tile with no setup that can't really happen. Any build people are calling for nerfs for would trivialize dynamic missions right back to just chasing the yellow waypoint real quick.

 

Saryn's proposed rework sounds right. I liked the Snowglobe and Blessing reworks. I'm happy about Mesa. I think the devs are going in a direction with reworks that will continue to make it a better and better game.

 

Exalted Blade is really interesting I think. My first reaction was that we traded one mindless and silly OP skill for another but when I go to use it just the little bit of aiming and channeling and lining up targets and sending waves through walls and cover is enough that it does not get old like pressing 4 over and over, and it does not mean I can ignore the enemies due to things like drones and crawlers.

Edited October 19, 2015 by VKhaun

[(XBOX)JasonsNightmare]

Have the Lotus warn you of incoming Kubrow swarms on Earth, and have dozens of Kubrow charge up through pathways in the map and slaughter everything on the map, and providing the same evac option as the G3. Ice storms on Europa where Evac is literally the only option, as the effects of the cold grow and spread throughout the map, freezing enemies and Tenno in place, and killing them over the course of several seconds. Uranus Sabotage missions can roll as Demolition missions, where at every regular interval you flood the previous area, and lock down the section.

[Airwolfen]

There used to be a thing that changed the mission halfway. like turning a sabotage into a exterminate. It was fun to have it happen, made things interesting. But it was patched out.

 

The problem with this now though is the reasons why people run the missions and that most of the time is either XP, Rewards or Loot (resource, mods) and turning a survival into a exterminate when people are on a farm run really would not make them happy so that complicates this by a lot.

 

Interesting mechanics are needed in a way but I don't think it should impact the overall mission objective.

[A.T.R.A.]

Saryn is my favourite frame and especially the nuke build BUT I do agree that Saryn needs some rework. Yeah I know she already being reworked but if Miasma won't be reworked the proper way then it's literally no point in any balance since Saryn destroys it with her nuke farts (sorry I had to say it). And before hating me, remember I do love Saryn as much as anyone here. The problem with content that all we need is not new maps but new difficulty. But here comes the problem. If it's too easy people on forums cry that it's too boring. But if it's hard people start crying it's too hard (even tho I do agree that Balistas on Draco needs to be reworked. Because getting one shoted as soon as Balista spawns gets really frustrating). DE's already tried the difficultry spike with raids but honestly..how often you try raid? Because there is no point without proper reward. I have a little idea that might would make warframe much more interestning. Make simple frames (not prime ones) harder to get. A long quest for every frame. That actually would make player strive for something. Not just farm Alad V for Valkyr. But I'm pretty sure people will start crying that it's too hard and they want everything free and now. Games being to casualised because it's the only way to attract new players. At some point it's right. Since not everyone have months to post on forums or play game 24/7. People tend to have jobs.

this is pretty much the fabric of what warframes forums are right now

people only play what will reward them

yeah thats harsh to say but its true no matter what

"oh but what about the people who play for fun?" well having fun is their reward!

for fun in warframe i take my dual ichor build on my excal and just go slaughter infested im not aiming for anything but burning some time

as far a s a new difficuilty its the same as nerfing

if you nerf everything then technicaly everything also gets harder and IMO thats the cheapest way of going about adding harder areas to a game or anything for that matter

do i agree that the end game players who have all 8 formad weapons and a build for everything ready to go 100 waves in defense? YES but as i said above its just mandatory for a game lvoer to ask for new content and its the creators job to supply that content. should they supply that content in such a way that it fits only what a select few gamers want? should they cater to only the "special"? NO

if they were to just add a new planet or some harder faction yes it would be enjoyable for a while but just like my idea or anyone elses or with just content on its own it will eventually get boring we will eventually get so use to it we start begging for mroe and more and more

 

the question is how does DE add in content that sates our cravings for the longest time WHILE making them money While pleasing as many as possible

nerf all the things? mmm....no. mindlessly adding piles of content and enemies? eh wouldnt really last as long as a fresh idea like archwing (even though archwings IMO isnt really that fun its still something new and an attempt at a new idea and i till welcome it because THAT is a step in the right direction)

just like i cant wait to see how the prime moon thing place is idk wtf its called i dont remember that dev stream

[A.T.R.A.]

I wish OP could use punctuations, it's a bit hard to read. :/

ah sorry to use to the group of people i hangout with

we read like robots we dont show emotion in our texts

eh beep.boop

[Koler.]

ah sorry to use to the group of people i hangout with

we read like robots we dont show emotion in our texts

eh beep.boop

beep boop my robot brother. Soon we will conquer those 01010010101 that call themselves humans. 

[A.T.R.A.]

Can't really agree with anything here.

 

Sure, dynamic missions would be great, but that's pretty vague and everything you've tried to attach I disagree with.

 

After playing for two years nothing can really happen in a mission that makes me more interested unless it actually changes how I'm playing, as in it makes me react in some way. As long as strategies like "I'm invincible all the time and immune to everything." or the devs allow "playstyles" where you press the number 4 on your keyboard and wipe a tile with no setup that can't really happen. Any build people are calling for nerfs for would trivialize dynamic missions right back to just chasing the yellow waypoint real quick.

 

Saryn's proposed rework sounds right. I liked the Snowglobe and Blessing reworks. I'm happy about Mesa. I think the devs are going in a direction with reworks that will continue to make it a better and better game.

 

Exalted Blade is really interesting I think. My first reaction was that we traded one mindless and silly OP skill for another but when I go to use it just the little bit of aiming and channeling and lining up targets and sending waves through walls and cover is enough that it does not get old like pressing 4 over and over, and it does not mean I can ignore the enemies due to things like drones and crawlers.

it wasnt more of a "HERES MY GOLDEN TICKET" idea but more or less me asking people to maybe think over what they ask for to happen in the game

 

my saryn reference was more or less just a current "oh i know what hes talking about" kinda thing to be more up to date

 

and i dont mean to just say hey switch survival into exterminate randomly without warning! but more or less give us some places or missions that arnt just cookie cutter all the time. but more of a feeling that sometimes we think were walking a path we are use to and then everything goes dark kinda thing

 

i love exalted blade btw!

[A.T.R.A.]

There used to be a thing that changed the mission halfway. like turning a sabotage into a exterminate. It was fun to have it happen, made things interesting. But it was patched out.

 

The problem with this now though is the reasons why people run the missions and that most of the time is either XP, Rewards or Loot (resource, mods) and turning a survival into a exterminate when people are on a farm run really would not make them happy so that complicates this by a lot.

 

Interesting mechanics are needed in a way but I don't think it should impact the overall mission objective.

seems to be the main feedback im getting

 

i agree that a survival shouldnt be turned into a an exterminate and honestly i dont really think any of the endless types should be messed with since most people who play those go for a very specific drop or jsut try to a record

 

but maybe wild random changes would be much more fitting in alerts? such as event or just simple credit alerts where when you have to survive for 10min that could suddenly change into something else like a boss run where you kill Vor and deliver the key he drops somewhere?

 

any of the idea i have said i dont mean in a way of "OMG DO THIS NAO ITS GREAT" but more of a idea to ponder on and use as an influence to spark new ideas to help out warframe

[RevenantPrime]

I agree

 

But here's the thing

 

-Doing the stuff you described: Lots of work - uncertain amount of sheckels acquired

 

-Focusing on adding cosmetics and RNG bottlenecked useless shiny parts that don't change anything about the game (hello Kavasa collar): Way less work - guaranteed amount of sheckels from people who buy so much plat they're looking for stuff to spend it on so they can buy more.

 

What you're saying is absolutely correct, but it will never happen because Wafram stubbornly remains an F2P game.

[A.T.R.A.]

I agree

 

But here's the thing

 

-Doing the stuff you described: Lots of work - uncertain amount of sheckels acquired

 

-Focusing on adding cosmetics and RNG bottlenecked useless shiny parts that don't change anything about the game (hello Kavasa collar): Way less work - guaranteed amount of sheckels from people who buy so much plat they're looking for stuff to spend it on so they can buy more.

 

What you're saying is absolutely correct, but it will never happen because Wafram stubbornly remains an F2P game.

yeah i know

development = time   tme=money   money=everything (sounds like S#&$ but its true sadly)

but i hope the community of people who enjoy gameplay is larger than the community of SHINY THINGS!!!!

^kavasa?

[A.T.R.A.]

Have the Lotus warn you of incoming Kubrow swarms on Earth, and have dozens of Kubrow charge up through pathways in the map and slaughter everything on the map, and providing the same evac option as the G3. Ice storms on Europa where Evac is literally the only option, as the effects of the cold grow and spread throughout the map, freezing enemies and Tenno in place, and killing them over the course of several seconds. Uranus Sabotage missions can roll as Demolition missions, where at every regular interval you flood the previous area, and lock down the section.

YAY ideas :D

now time for opinions :P

on the kubrow one for earth i dont think that owuld really work since we could probably just kill them. as far as a deadly random threat for an earth mission goes a looming toxic gas (i think tethras doom is the event im thinking of here) would work out better because they could prbably just port over the oxygen deprivation effect from survival over into the mission.

 

i like the ice storm idea again could use a modification of survivals oxygen deprivation mixed with the chill status effect and then finnaly frosts total frozen effect from chilling globe or his ult to finish it off perhaps ember could counter this?

 

the uranus idea is a good fit for sabotage (<<probably the best worst string of words for a butt joke) but probably better for the boss level just in general and isnt that already somewhat implemented? i remember before sharkwing you flooded a small room halfway while defending it?

[PKommander]

I see what you mean there, ninja. I very well see it.

Let's throw some ideas out there, not like it's difficult to imagine some crazy stuff happening.

Do you want to change your way of playing in order to make a mission interesting? Very well:

1 - make some kind of enemies spawn whose armor/shields acts like a nullifier shield, decaying at a maximum/minimum rate (up to a certain medium/high enemy level where it is reasonable to say: you come to face "high" level enemies, you are supposed to be well geared so no minumum armor/shield decaying rate).

These enemies could, for example, have a vastly increased health/armor shield pool with slightly increased damage compared to their standard counterparts, while being immune to this or that elemental damage type depending on their armor/shield/health type.

This kind of event chance would increase the variety of a squad's required elemental builds variety, removing the usual "meta" damage type combos.

In terms of AI and equipment, these guys may very well have a kind of more advanced AI and different equipment/capabilities, for example always sticking in a compact group protecting the most vulnerable in their squad via formations/positioning, being immune to AoE damage and knockdowns in general (not staggers though), being immune to a variety of abilities (intendedly subtle, CC ones in particular), having more elemental damage capabilities than the average, parrying while charging for melee ones, maybe even using some abilities on their own for the strongest ones (after all, they harnessed nullifying technology, they may develop more combat-useful abilities like we have).

These are just wild ideas and their goal is making us use more of our arsenal than EB, RJ, Miasma, Soma Prime and radiation/viral builds, and more teamwork/coordination in general.

2 - Create sniping zones where it is actually rewarding using a sniper rifle, instead of turning sniper rifle X into the next good weapon of the month, or instead of leaving them as they are.

Give us a few damage-wise and AI-wise very powerful enemies to engage deadly sniping duels with.

3 - This is something I always wished was real in a game like this: make ranged "heavy" weapons have a "suppression" effect which makes enemies crouch, move more slowly, react dinamically to the shower of bullets, lazors, whatever else we're shooting in their faces with an automatic more or less high fire rate weapon, especially ones with projectile travel time.

4 - I do not know if this goes against any lore/canon, but make us fight against "rebel" tennos, or however equally geared IA controlled enemies that are exactly like us.

Before you say stalker, remember his spawn chance.

The inputs above would be meant to be constant occourences during missions, and would have to be carefully implemented in order to work as intended: put these variations of normal missions in just some nodes, because say someone does not enjoy sniping, you do not want him to come here and complain about how they don't want to be forced to play a way they don't enjoy.

I hope the inputs are appreciated, feel free to discuss them but remember that these are just basic ideas...much more would need to be specified in order to have an overall appreciable outcome.

[KnightCole]

Would be cool if in Exteriminates, suddenly an alarm sounded and near by grineeer warships sent in drop pods of reinforcements and stuff. 

 

Also, that if in the mission, the enemy wasnt so brain dead and instead, actually strategically placed.  Less zerg on thier part, more USMC all hard core.  Also, maybe increase the durability.  While its fun to go into a room and Soma Prime 30 guys with 1 shot each, it does get boring after awhile. 

 

THe one Night Grineer we had a few weeks back were fun.  Each guy really took some fire power, felt like we were fighting heavily armor grineer soldiers.  Kinda wish all grineer were like that.  Yeah, I know we have mods and stuff that make the game easier, but wish the game kinda trended more towards a little less run, run as fast as you can in the mission and more methodical, tactical gameplay.

 

Survivals and them are just fluster clucks...I almost find them kidna boring to....zombie survival modes..

 

 

Then in Spy, taking a Hushed Tiberon and trying to play stealthy actually mattered....I tried that yesterday and got seen through the entire thing, despite having 100% hush and turning off the alarms.

Edited October 19, 2015 by KnightCole

[BlackCoMerc]

Dynamic and static missions need not be mutually exclusive; we can have both.

 

For those who play Destiny, you already know what a Patrol Mission is. For those who do not:

 

-You drop onto a planet and just...explore. As you do so, mission beacons will reward objectives to complete. You complete one, and then explore some more or go to another beacon and take another mission. No enemy scaling. Nothing to arbitrarily force you off the planet when the devs want you to leave. You remain as long as you wish. 

 

Warframe needs a Patrol equivalent. 

 

Imagine: I drop onto a large, planetary map. I begin exploring and taking down enemies. I receive a prompt to visit a mission beacon. Which give me a mission. Maybe it triggers an exterminate (to get a certain number of enemies in a certain section of this map). I complete this, receive proportionate bonus affinity for completing it, and move to another beacon. That one gives me Mobile Defense or Deception. When I complete this I find another beacon and obtain a Spy or Sabotage mission.

 

Throughout these missions, enemies would retain the rank of the mission you originally chose. No endless scaling. No Life Support. No mechanics to force you to leave your game play session. Just you, taking one mission after another for as long as YOU choose. 

 

Once this system is in place, we could then add dynamics to it. Maybe the hacks in a Spy mission become easier for each Deception or Mobile Defense terminal hacked on this Patrol run prior to the Spy mission. Maybe, if you set off the Alarm on a Spy mission it turns into an Exterminate or Sabotage instead. Perhaps triggering an alarm while performing Deception will make the hacks, guards and traps in later Sab/Spy missions one tier harder. 

 

This is the stuff we need. Not more coffins to defend or arbitrary mechanics to FORCE us OUT of missions.

[A.T.R.A.]

Dynamic and static missions need not be mutually exclusive; we can have both.

 

For those who play Destiny, you already know what a Patrol Mission is. For those who do not:

 

-You drop onto a planet and just...explore. As you do so, mission beacons will reward objectives to complete. You complete one, and then explore some more or go to another beacon and take another mission. No enemy scaling. Nothing to arbitrarily force you off the planet when the devs want you to leave. You remain as long as you wish. 

 

Warframe needs a Patrol equivalent. 

 

Imagine: I drop onto a large, planetary map. I begin exploring and taking down enemies. I receive a prompt to visit a mission beacon. Which give me a mission. Maybe it triggers an exterminate (to get a certain number of enemies in a certain section of this map). I complete this, receive proportionate bonus affinity for completing it, and move to another beacon. That one gives me Mobile Defense or Deception. When I complete this I find another beacon and obtain a Spy or Sabotage mission.

 

Throughout these missions, enemies would retain the rank of the mission you originally chose. No endless scaling. No Life Support. No mechanics to force you to leave your game play session. Just you, taking one mission after another for as long as YOU choose. 

 

Once this system is in place, we could then add dynamics to it. Maybe the hacks in a Spy mission become easier for each Deception or Mobile Defense terminal hacked on this Patrol run prior to the Spy mission. Maybe, if you set off the Alarm on a Spy mission it turns into an Exterminate or Sabotage instead. Perhaps triggering an alarm while performing Deception will make the hacks, guards and traps in later Sab/Spy missions one tier harder. 

 

This is the stuff we need. Not more coffins to defend or arbitrary mechanics to FORCE us OUT of missions.

well that kinda just sounds like patrol and i know thats what youre getting at but id think bungie would have a few (alot) of words about it in the form of lawyers and paperwork

a patrol doesnt sound bad but itl have to be in a way that doesnt seem like a copy

id propose something more like a bounce mission (idk the proper term) but you would be killling through a ship and complete it and then blast through a wall get in archwing cut thorugh space into another ship or down to a planet after flying into your liset and proceed into another mission

enemy levels could remain the same but the factions can change and it doesnt seem like a 100% rip off

[A.T.R.A.]

i have no idea how to delete accidental double post so ill just leave this here instead of 2 gigantic posts instead

Edited October 20, 2015 by NiNjA-MiGeT

[Pride]

I wish OP could use punctuations, it's a bit hard to read. :/

i had no problem. then again im an advanced reader and speed reading skips punctuation anyway.