I Know Exactly What The Tenno Are! Tenno Are Spirits! This Theory Is Flawless! +Conclusion

[UrielColtan]

"EXCEPT we have in-game confirmation that the Tenno DO switch between Warframes, AND Steve's reply to the "Fourth Wall" comment from the AMA further suggests that, AND his "yes" answer to the question about "are the Operator separate from the Warframes" during the Comic Con Panel ALSO suggests that. That IS canon."


Steve admitting to 4th wall lines getting in and wanting to edit Ordis' brought up line, calls into question the validity of the alleged confirmation, and Ordis' trustworthiness in general, per saying ordis isn't very trustworthy in the NYCC. You are misappropriating what was said, the actual question was "is Ordis hinting something" with his comments, not are the frames and operator seperate. Steve confirmed nothing on that front, with his answer merely saying of course Ordis is hinting something and then following that up with "but Ordis is not very trustworthy is he." Convenient that you left that part out.
You also appear to be purposefully misreferencing the exchange in the AMA as well if you are saying that he said that its confirmed, when I have copy and pasted the whole exchange in a conversation with you before, which doesn't support that at all.


And I DON"T take those comments literally, I take what Vor's become and see a possibility - Vor's WORDS could mean anything, but what we SEE him having become? What we see him surviving through and becoming upon his "death", THAT'S something else entirely.

We had this convo before.
Where do we see Vor possessing anyone? Vor uses his own body.


You say "mental gymnastics", I say putting together what we have been given into something coherent that seems logical to me. And I don't buy the cloned bodies bit as much, at least not in regards to the original ones from the Zariman.

"We" have been given? No, you are just making up some other lore and creating lore for that lore just to make it fit. I mentioned cloned bodies because you were defending this in the other topic we were debating.

The thing is, Lotus at least ADDRESSES that Phorid is something of flesh that has been twisted. What is is she says about Mesa, though? "It's a Warframe being puppeted by Mutalist Flesh". Even ALAD refers to his creation NOT as an Infested Tenno but as a "Mutalist Warframe". There's no Tenno there to be Infested.

For one, "Mutalist Alad V".

 

"Mutalist" is what he wanted to call all the victims of his strand, as well as make everyone into the mutalist empire. Though this is besides the point of reference.
Here is what Lotus says in the section I am referencing.

"not a Tenno. That's a hollow Warframe being puppeted by Infested flesh. Put it out of its misery."

She didn't say mutalist there, and Warframe is distinguished from infested flesh, as is a Tenno.

And so what if Kaleen was harmed? The Tenno, we KNOW FOR A FACT, are BRIMMING with Void energy - Vor's statement, no matter which way you twist it, suggest that we have a strong link with Void energies.

So what if she was harmed? It doesn't support that a Tenno in attempt to possess this "creature" would not do the same, (possessing for seemingly no reason at that), thats what.
Another thing, how would they even keep tenno there if they can just leave as balls of energy?
You got to create lore just to fit this lore.
And quit acting like you are arguing against someone who is saying that Tenno don't get their powers from the void. You are not making a point when you keep repeating that Tenno use void energy.

I NEVER suggest that the Void turned flesh and blood children into spirits. I only suggest that it split the soul and the body, similar to, perhaps, we see Vor in the Void - though his exact nature is uncertain (could be his entire body is just a projection of energy, but that seems weird). The souls of the Tenno living on through Oro, through energy, just as Vor's life is now only attached to his "energy orb belly".

The energy orb is just something to attach him if anything, since he was sliced in half and reattached that way by the Janus key. He still has his same body while revived regardless(We see in a promotion clip that it is no mere projection, his actual body is reanimated by the Janus key) and is shown no possession powers. Oro is an energy that can be used for ressurrections, its not stated that this moves independently to the point of possessing other autnomous beings such as the assumption with Rhino. No energy orb is stated to be seen or flying into the Rhino in that codex.

But, as I say, this is but one theory of many, and I favor it only because of Void Vor's existence. Whatever we get I'll be happy with, I just want to know. The Second Dream will show us, that's all I care about.

Void Vor existence does not support this possessions theory, sorry, nor does it contest Tenno having their own bodies in a Warframe and simply using void energies independent of needing to possess an infested creature to do so. Ember codex clearly conveys that they don't need to.

Edited October 20, 2015 by UrielColtan

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

isnt this another hyped tenno are energy theory that was debunked....

 

 

watch the trailer for destiny on PS4 and you see excalibure cut to pieces, there is flesh inside the armor ....

 

 

Tenno are the children of the orokin that were experimented on

[Morec0]

isnt this another hyped tenno are energy theory that was debunked....

 

 

watch the trailer for destiny on PS4 and you see excalibure cut to pieces, there is flesh inside the armor ....

 

 

Tenno are the children of the orokin that were experimented on

 

Destiny trailer? You mean the PS4 trailer? The Warframe looked empty if anything, and even that may have just been because they didn't take the time to fill in the model where it would be cut - even Valkyr wasn't ready for the trailer when she was supposed to be in it instead of Mag.

 

 

Void Vor existence does not support this possessions theory, sorry, nor does it contest Tenno having bodies and simply using void energies independent of needing to posess bodies to do so. Ember codex clearly conveys that they don't need to.

 

I respectfully disagree. Whatever he is now he's very clearly not just flesh and blood anymore, and even he himself says he was reborn by the Void, it had some connection to him through the Janus key, through the ENERGIES it emits, and in some way they altered him -SOUND FAMILIAR? - into whatever it is he is now. Whatever that is. It's still unclear - his talk of "energy" notwithstanding because, frankly, he's got a flair for the dramatic that obfuscates things.

 

Oh, and I NEVER implied they need to possess anything to use their Void energies, that's THEIR innate ability. The Warframe abilities, on the other hand, seem to be something more tied to the Warframes because of - as you continue to deny and misreference the AMA which cleared it up YOURSELF, as I've pointed out before - our ability to switch between them and the seeming difference in origin that the Rhino Codex shows us between "the ones from the Zariman" and the creature that had been attacking the scientists.

 

The game, as it's been built up, just makes SO MUCH LESS SENSE if their multiple Tenno, and we continue to have ZERO reference to any other Tenno we play as despite ourself.

 

Ordis is a little cracked, yes, he's a little damage, he can get certain things wrong... But I'm PRETTY SURE even HE would be able to tell if there were multiple Tenno running around his ship. He's damaged, not stupid. Untrustworthy as he may be, even Teshin addresses us as a singular Tenno despite us switching Warframes.

 

Whether we're energy or flesh doesn't matter, I don't care which it is, I just think that we can't so quickly rule out one or the other, we are most assuredly a singular Tenno.

 

 

Oh, and on the Jordas thing, now that I've thought about it: yes, the Infestation quieted it because the Infestation's been there for a while too. It could very easily have been running through the ship, even if it wasn't able to fuse with it like the Mutalist strain allows it to now, during the centuries adrift he's been out there. The Infestation's ALWAYS been there, though, fused or not into Jordas. It's mind, it's intelligence, running through every cell of Technocyte in the area.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Morec0

[UrielColtan]

Destiny trailer? You mean the PS4 trailer? The Warframe looked empty if anything, and even that may have just been because they didn't take the time to fill in the model where it would be cut - even Valkyr wasn't ready for the trailer when she was supposed to be in it instead of Mag.

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree. Whatever he is now he's very clearly not just flesh and blood anymore, and even he himself says he was reborn by the Void, it had some connection to him through the Janus key, through the ENERGIES it emits, and in some way they altered him -SOUND FAMILIAR? - into whatever it is he is now. Whatever that is. It's still unclear - his talk of "energy" notwithstanding because, frankly, he's got a flair for the dramatic that obfuscates things.

 

Oh, and I NEVER implied they need to possess anything to use their Void energies, that's THEIR innate ability. The Warframe abilities, on the other hand, seem to be something more tied to the Warframes because of - as you continue to deny and misreference the AMA which cleared it up YOURSELF, as I've pointed out before - our ability to switch between them and the seeming difference in origin that the Rhino Codex shows us between "the ones from the Zariman" and the creature that had been attacking the scientists.

 

The game, as it's been built up, just makes SO MUCH LESS SENSE if their multiple Tenno, and we continue to have ZERO reference to any other Tenno we play as despite ourself.

 

Ordis is a little cracked, yes, he's a little damage, he can get certain things wrong... But I'm PRETTY SURE even HE would be able to tell if there were multiple Tenno running around his ship. He's damaged, not stupid. Untrustworthy as he may be, even Teshin addresses us as a singular Tenno despite us switching Warframes.

 

Whether we're energy or flesh doesn't matter, I don't care which it is, I just think that we can't so quickly rule out one or the other, we are most assuredly a singular Tenno.

 

https://youtu.be/Q6cIRZlMQ3g?t=262

 

We see him reanimated by the Janus key, its his body. It can become energy upon death but he is using his body while revived. We had this conversation before. His comments were brought up in the conversation then. He still posesses no one. You need to prove that this is happening anywhere if you want to use Vor for this theory. Because simply referrring to Vor channling void energy, is not that.

 

The only one misreferencing the AMA is you. Guess I have to post this yet again.

 

[–]SilentMobius - When creating dialogue for the various characters in the game, what is your general stance on breaking the 4th wall and addressing the player directly?  Is it something you avoid, something that needs a good reason, or do you have no issue having NPC's speak to the player in ways that have no real meaning in-world?  Here is an example, in the recent Limbo quest Ordis tells us:      Operator, I think I know why we're finding Limbo parts scattered throughout the system. His final rift walk was a miscalc... disaster. Well, perhaps when you occupy the frame, you will use more... caution  It's been suggested that this is intended to be a 4th wall break addressing the player and has no meaning in-world, whats your opinion on that? 

 

 

 [–]DigitalExtremes - I don't like doing this at all but I know there are some lines have slipped in that do this. That line example might get an edit to remove that ambiguity. - SS     

 

 

[–]SilentMobius - So, are you saying that in your opinion that line isn't in-world?  Because it pretty much confirmed that a single Tenno can change Warframes if it was. Which was great IMHO.  

 

 

 

So Morec0, where does Steve agree that we are indeed switching frames there? He pretty clearly says fourth wall stuff makes it in regardless of his dislike of that stuff, and that he would like to edit that Ordis line. Why, if its to be taken at face value? If anything, this is left open for debate. Ordis being broken or not, Steve sill established that Ordis is not a trustworthy source on top of that, deal with it.

Edited October 20, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Morec0]

So Morec0, where does Steve agree that we are indeed switching frames there? He pretty clearly says fourth wall stuff makes it in regardless of his dislike of that stuff, and that he would like to edit that Ordis line. Why, if its to be taken at face value? If anything, this is left open for debate. Ordis being broken or not, Steve sill established that Ordis is not a trustworthy source on top of that, deal with it.

 

 

When he says "I don't like doing this at all" to the fourth wall comment, he admits that some lines that to break it, yes, and that the line in question might get changed to remove that ambiguity - the ambiguity of "does it or does it not break the fourth wall?". A change to remove all the ambiguity WOULD cement whether or not it was a fourth wall break or not...

 

As of Patch 15.5 which "Removed unnecessary descriptive wording from Ordis transmission in Limbo Theorem Quest." that hasn't happened: https://youtu.be/GGmyB73lkTw?t=31m40s

 

And note the use of Mesa earlier in the video, this was taken AFTER that update. And the line is untouched even after the update which was to clear it up. This HEAVILY allows us to conclude that the intent within THAT LINE was INDEED to imply that we are a single Tenno switching frames. Otherwise, a change to the line WOULD have come about and WOULD have removed the fourth wall mention to take out the fourth wall breaking Steve hates.

 

But it didn't, despite the quest being gone over for edits.

 

So, it can be reasonably concluded, THAT line is fair game.

 

---

 

And let me ask you: why can his body just SUDDENLY be able to become energy because of that key's energy? 

 

Could you perhaps say it was TWISTED by it? Altered by the energies of the Void through the key? The Orokin used the Void from transit, that much is clear from the Mag Codex, and in the beginning of that trailer was the VOID KEY not being used as a power source to OPEN the portal into the Void? To ALLOW for transit into it?

 

Wouldn't that suggest it's energies are tied TO the Void?

 

So, we have the energies of the Void key - VOID energies - reanimating Vor, making him what he is... and changing him to allow his body to dissipate into energy... Sounds like the Void can physically alter people to me. Sounds like it can leave them in a state where they can survive even after their body has been dissipated into energy...

 

Is it a spirit? Maybe not, but it's still very similar to how the Tenno were made. That's what I'm saying: whatever VOR is, is what WE are. And as Vor appears to be able to reduce himself to energy in some sense, talk and communicate even without a completely solid form, so too are the Tenno.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Morec0

[TARINunit9]

Here guys~  Take a look at the discussion going on in this thread for a moment: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/548143-woah-i-just-realized-something-possible-rhino-temple-guardian-skin-origin/

 

This proves that the Tenno Spirit took control of that prototype Rhino warframe~ o 3o

It doesn't "prove" anything. It's just yet another "hey, maybe the Tenno are energy beings who possess suits of armor" thread

[SilentMobius]

When he says "I don't like doing this at all" to the fourth wall comment, he admits that some lines that to break it, yes, and that the line in question might get changed to remove that ambiguity - the ambiguity of "does it or does it not break the fourth wall?". A change to remove all the ambiguity WOULD cement whether or not it was a fourth wall break or not...

 

As of Patch 15.5 which "Removed unnecessary descriptive wording from Ordis transmission in Limbo Theorem Quest." that hasn't happened: https://youtu.be/GGmyB73lkTw?t=31m40s

 

And note the use of Mesa earlier in the video, this was taken AFTER that update. And the line is untouched even after the update which was to clear it up. This HEAVILY allows us to conclude that the intent within THAT LINE was INDEED to imply that we are a single Tenno switching frames. Otherwise, a change to the line WOULD have come about and WOULD have removed the fourth wall mention to take out the fourth wall breaking Steve hates.

 

But it didn't, despite the quest being gone over for edits.

 

So, it can be reasonably concluded, THAT line is fair game.

 

Absolutely with you there Morec0. I was trying to "trick" Steve into a stance on the Poly/Mono Tenno and he deftly deflected it, said that "some" lines make it through and that the line might be edited to remove "ambiguity" a perfectly crafted reply avoiding taking any stance at all in the AMA.

 

And the Limbo quest was edited, and the line was not shaved down, changed or edited in any way. Hence it stands.

 

Reminds me of the standard response to time travelers when asking too many questions in the Continuum RPG "Further information is not available at this time" a perfect non-statement.

 

I actually used my no-plat test account to get enough resources to re-run that mission to confirm it as well, took forever.

[SilentMobius]

Here guys~  Take a look at the discussion going on in this thread for a moment: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/548143-woah-i-just-realized-something-possible-rhino-temple-guardian-skin-origin/

 

This proves that the Tenno Spirit took control of that prototype Rhino warframe~ o 3o

 

Is English not your first language? Because this isn't proof of anything, it isn't even a functional theory, it's barely a hypothesis. The most accurate term I could use is "speculation".

Edited October 21, 2015 by Tulzscha
less venom please

[Monybags33]

I had always thought the aspect of them being "Energy" but if were going to go with a soul aspect than sure its along the same lines, either way something that the void turned into a being of raw energy that suits needed to mold around that energy. After witch the suits (witch would all be generic) take on the traits of the individual who got "twisted" by the void, sounds sound enough for me but hell keeping it secret is what its all about.

[Zarozian]

I had always thought the aspect of them being "Energy" but if were going to go with a soul aspect than sure its along the same lines, either way something that the void turned into a being of raw energy that suits needed to mold around that energy. After witch the suits (witch would all be generic) take on the traits of the individual who got "twisted" by the void, sounds sound enough for me but hell keeping it secret is what its all about.

We're going with something like the soul. Which is why I said spirit. o -o

 

When the Zariman Children died and were placed in the morgue, their new void infused souls didn't really die either.

 

Instead they only found a new body when they ran into that proto-rhino. Reason why they were able to fuse into it and possess it was because it was void infused too, much like them.

[Vesiga]

tl;dr so idk if this was answered.

if we're spirits how do we bleed.

[Zarozian]

tl;dr so idk if this was answered.

if we're spirits how do we bleed.

The Warframe bleeds. ;D

 

Not us cause we're just spirits~ o 3o

but if the spirit bleeds out and the body dies, then we're forced out of the body until we revive. =/

[Brokenrune]

The Warframe bleeds. ;D

 

Not us cause we're just spirits~ o 3o

but if the spirit bleeds out and the body dies, then we're forced out of the body until we revive. =/

So basically, the tenno (sprit) gets stuck, warframe gets killed, we die?

[Zarozian]

So basically, the tenno (sprit) gets stuck, warframe gets killed, we die?

Well that's the part where I'm lost at.

 

So when we die our spirit gets separated from our body, the warframe.

 

If we die. Mission just fails and we pop up back in the ship. o -o

 

Or if we die and our teammates complete the mission, we're back in our ships again lol.

 

So basically I am guessing we don't die at all as the main characters of the Warframe Universe, of we do die then our main body gets recovered and restored at our ship and we get implemented back into the body.

[TARINunit9]

Well that's the part where I'm lost at.

 

So when we die our spirit gets separated from our body, the warframe.

 

If we die. Mission just fails and we pop up back in the ship. o -o

 

Or if we die and our teammates complete the mission, we're back in our ships again lol.

 

So basically I am guessing we don't die at all as the main characters of the Warframe Universe, of we do die then our main body gets recovered and restored at our ship and we get implemented back into the body.

Basically, the question is: are mission failures considered canon?

 

If missions you fail aren't considered canon (which, considering Darvo and Maroo aren't canonically dead, they probably aren't)... well then you never lose, and you never die. You don't need to ask the questions of "how did I get back in my LISET alive and well?" because that mission never actually happened

 

But if missions you fail ARE canon, then it opens up an absolute crapton of new questions. Like "how did I get back in my LISET alive and well?" 

[Zarozian]

Basically, the question is: are mission failures considered canon?

 

If missions you fail aren't considered canon (which, considering Darvo and Maroo aren't canonically dead, they probably aren't)... well then you never lose, and you never die. You don't need to ask the questions of "how did I get back in my LISET alive and well?" because that mission never actually happened

 

But if missions you fail ARE canon, then it opens up an absolute crapton of new questions. Like "how did I get back in my LISET alive and well?" 

Okay then I guess we do die if we die in our warframes~

Since our spirit is binded to the warframe as though it were our own bodies~

 

We're really just monsters without the spirit. Just like the one in the Rhino Prime Codex entry~

 

We're terrifying when unleashed~ o 3o

[TARINunit9]

We're really just monsters without the spirit. Just like the one in the Rhino Prime Codex entry~

May I ask what it was that lead you to conclude so heavily that the beast!Rhino wasn't a Tenno?

[LisRestall]

This is getting ridiculous ... *facepalm*

[Zarozian]

This is getting ridiculous ... *facepalm*

If patience is worth anything then it must endure until the end of time~ o -o

So endure you must!

 

Now here is my conclusion~ o 3o

 

 

 

- The first warframes were wild void demons that were suppressed by the frames built around them to restrict their power in an attempt to control them.

 

- The Zariman Children were the first Tenno while some survived, those who died were able to possess the first warframes like what happened in the Rhino Prime Codex entry. Being related to the Void the body or warframe sucks these spirits into them and gains control giving the spirit control over the beast's mind.

 

-The Tenno and the Warframe then become one~ With a powerful body with energy from the void and an immortal spirit and mind with the skill and training, the combination was deadly.

 

- The Orokin probably made more people by repeating this process~ Harshly and vigorously training their own people to near death until the skills become permanent muscle memory and instinct. Then they infected them with a special technocyte which caused extreme pain then shoving them all off into the void taking only the few who managed to come back alive. 

 

-Those who came back as successful were then either killed or put into death-like sleep to become the Tenno Spirit. Those who came back failures or as monsters would be turned into warframes.

[Lightsmith]

This is getting ridiculous ... *facepalm*

seriously. They guy seems off

[TARINunit9]

Hey Zaro, there's something I wanna clear up. I'd like to know how you came to this specific conclusion, because it's the only point I disagree with you on:

- The Zariman Children were the first Tenno while some survived, those who died were able to possess the first warframes like what happened in the Rhino Prime Codex entry. Being related to the Void the body or warframe sucks these spirits into them and gains control giving the spirit control over the beast's mind.

 

The established facts, taken at face value:
The rhino!Narrator (henceforth, "Mr. Nar" as a nickname) is attacked by a large Beast with Iron Skin shortly after the Beast crouches down to eat gory chunks of human flesh. Mr. Nar reminisces how the Beast is not the first beast he had experimented on. In attempting to escape, Mr. Nar is saved by his co-worker Davis, who lets Mr. Nar hide in a morgue (though we are never told what's in the morgue, if anything at all). Mr. Nar does not recognize the morgue, whereupon Davis states that the morgue is used to hide the survivors from Zariman. Mr. Nar mentions he has no idea what Zariman is other than a name of a ship that disappeared into the Void

 

My conclusion:
Beast is a Zariman survivor, having grown up as a lab rat. Mr. Nar has been experimenting on Zariman survivors, without ever knowing they were Zariman survivors

 

Your conclusion,  as best I can tell:
Beast is an empty Warframe, animated by rudimentary flesh and a basic animal mind. The Beast stops moving when it moves within range of the Zariman survivors

Edited October 21, 2015 by TARINunit9

[PnOyLeeT]

another day another tenno theory..tomorrow all tenno are lotuses..

[Zarozian]

another day another tenno theory..tomorrow all tenno are lotuses..

 

Hey Zaro, there's something I wanna clear up. I'd like to know how you came to this specific conclusion, because it's the only point I disagree with you on:

 

The established facts, taken at face value:

The rhino!Narrator (henceforth, "Mr. Nar" as a nickname) is attacked by a large Beast with Iron Skin shortly after the Beast crouches down to eat gory chunks of human flesh. Mr. Nar reminisces how the Beast is not the first beast he had experimented on. In attempting to escape, Mr. Nar is saved by his co-worker Davis, who lets Mr. Nar hide in a morgue (though we are never told what's in the morgue, if anything at all). Mr. Nar does not recognize the morgue, whereupon Davis states that the morgue is used to hide the survivors from Zariman. Mr. Nar mentions he has no idea what Zariman is other than a name of a ship that disappeared into the Void

 

My conclusion:

Beast is a Zariman survivor, having grown up as a lab rat. Mr. Nar has been experimenting on Zariman survivors, without ever knowing they were Zariman survivors

 

Your conclusion,  as best I can tell:

Beast is an empty Warframe, animated by rudimentary flesh and a basic animal mind. The Beast stops moving when it moves within range of the Zariman survivors

Okay but why do you disagree with it? o -o

 

another day another tenno theory..tomorrow all tenno are lotuses..

Or Hunters For Simaris you know?

[TARINunit9]

Okay but why do you disagree with it? o -o

Because I don't know what your train of thought is.

 

My train of thought is:

Beast is shown eating flesh, and Warframes probably don't eat anything (they need a power source, but not FOOD food). Zariman survivors, however, are mutated humans, and those tend to require food. Additionally, the reveal that Zariman survivors not only exist, but exist in the same laboratory that Mr. Nar been working in for years without him knowing, is probably meant to signal that Mr. Nar is staring a Zariman survivor in the face

 

What's your train of thought?

[Zarozian]

Because I don't know what your train of thought is.

 

My train of thought is:

Beast is shown eating flesh, and Warframes probably don't eat anything (they need a power source, but not FOOD food). Zariman survivors, however, are mutated humans, and those tend to require food. Additionally, the reveal that Zariman survivors not only exist, but exist in the same laboratory that Mr. Nar been working in for years without him knowing, is probably meant to signal that Mr. Nar is staring a Zariman survivor in the face

 

What's your train of thought?

Did you forget that they were alive? o -o

 

You did read my conclusion right? o -o

Like the whole thing and actually understood it? Cause I feel like you are doing the same thing again.....