Roboplus Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'm sure we all miss Overheat. Ultimately it was removed because power strength mods (specifically Blind Rage) made her far more survivable than a damage frame should be (from DE's perspective at the time). In it's place we got Accelerant, which is a fine ability. But since then DE has added additional armor and shields to Ember, indicating at least at the time that Ember should be a little more survivable than a light frame. So what if Overheat came back as a passive that grew stronger as Ember used more energy? The act of using her powers to literally heat up (to a limit). Damaging enemies that approached and offering some (non-modifiable) damage resistance. Gradually cooling down if you stop. That'd be nice, right? Fire Blast kinda sucks though. So what if Fire Blast was rolled into this as well? Fire Blast already sort of looks like Ember throwing heat off of herself instead of projecting it. What if Fire Blast interacted with Overheat as a means of expending it, like a charge? Think Energy Channel, but more of a payoff. Ember's other three abilities bring Overheat up, and Fire Blast expends it. The higher your Overheat, the more powerful Fire Blast becomes. Like, multiple times stronger. TL;DR: Overheat as a passive. Offers short range damage and damage resistance. Builds up as you use energy. Expends when you use Fire Blast, making it do lots more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latiac Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I wouldn't mind overheat back. it'd make Ember viable again to some degree, We also have other abilities that gives damage reduction on other frames. why not Ember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizzaro21 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Chemistry to use, but awesome, +1 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Kosis181 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 At the very least, this is an excellent jump off point for brainstorming. Kudos to you. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurugani Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 This honestly would make ember alot better than she is currently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltraumfred Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) +1 How about the following modification: It builds up damage as you said, and if you deactivate it, it creates the radial shockwave of fire blast, with 2x damage. Edit: Sorry, brainfart, misread the OP. Edited October 20, 2015 by Weltraumfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 DE has been very aggressive about giving frames scaleable survival and this sounds like one way to obtain it. after all mesa got shattershield i see no reason the battlemage cant have overheat back. that said im still waiting for DE to agree to a total ember rework. I think she deserves it more than any other frame atm. i love saryn and am so hyped for her rework but she already had significant value as a frame frost was the same way neither should have been a priority fix while ember and limbo are in such poor spots in the game. +1 How about the following modification: It builds up damage as you said, and if you deactivate it, it creates the radial knock down blast of fire blast, with 2x damage. that defeats the purpose this was intended to be a passive to improve her survivability not an active skill to further increase her damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltraumfred Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) that defeats the purpose this was intended to be a passive to improve her survivability not an active skill to further increase her damage output. Oh I didn't want to touch the damage reduction (though you could also make it an armor bonus, and have it increase through energy expenditure like damage). I just thought that you could fire off the radial blast if you a) built up enough damage and b) felt like it. Edited October 20, 2015 by Weltraumfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceryk Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I wouldn't mind overheat back. it'd make Ember viable again to some degree, We also have other abilities that gives damage reduction on other frames. why not Ember? She is also first and foremost a CC frame. Her survivability is through her ability to make enemies stop attacking all together. And after the recent changes to both Energy Drain and World on Fire, she's ridiculously OP. I can run around with WoF on indefinitely and not bother to shoot anything and still kill everything and barely get attacked between Firequake (since it's the only augment worth using on her) and the stun from enemies starting on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raniu Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Excellent idea, have my +1! It'd add some cool mechanics and synergy, it'd make people play Ember! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltraumfred Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Sorry, had a brainfart and misread the OP. I thought he meant that an Overheat like effect should replace Fire Blast (which is a bit lacklustre). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZzVinniezZ Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 This honestly would make ember alot better than she is currently what do you mean better than currently? i got my ember p with 2 formas and survived 30 waves of ODD. with WoF 100% knockdown augmented the enemies has a hard time shooting at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edermask_ Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 +1 Although I like the passive idea better, it also could be part of her ultimate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The only problem with this is the assumption that Fire blast "sucks". It most certainly does not suck. However, since DE does the balancing, I'm sure this suggestion would work out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DBR87 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I like this idea. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roboplus Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 In response to some of the discussion, this passive is intended to be a 2-fold decision. You can lean on the damage resist if you feel you need it, or consume it to deal more damage. Or balance the two and react to what would be best at that moment. If you're comfortable with your survivability, then you can deal more damage. If you're comfortable with your damage, you can survive more hits. For continued discussion, the values I've been throwing around are: 10% damage resist/50 contact heat damage for every 100 energy spent, up to 40% resist/200 heat. Fire Blast consumes Overheat and its damage is either multiplied by 0.5 or 1 for every 100 energy, up to 2-4. Meaning 3 to 5 times damage (default is 250 for the blast, and 225 for the ring). Alternately, using Fire Blast could be like using a portion of the charge, instead of the entire thing. Each charge using a quarter of the max value, offering a flat, doubled damage for Fire Blast across multiple uses. In practice, with power strength and Accelerant in effect, this could be a very large increase. Which is kind of the point. The World on Fire change is substantial (both in terms of survivability and damage), and Ember's other powers would have to be substantial to remain viable options. With 200% power strength and max Overheat, Fire Blast would do between 1,500-2,500 damage on the blast and 1,350-2,250 with the ring at the cost of your 40% damage resist. Add in Accelerant and that jumps to 7,500-12,500 on the blast and 6,750-11,250 for the ring. For reference, WoF will do 800 damage 2-4.5 times a second (1,600-3,600 dps), and 4,000 with Accelerant (8,000-16,200 dps). The alternate would come out to 500 on the blast and 450 on the ring, but only reduce the resist buff by 10%. With Accelerant that's 2,500 blast and 2,250 ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)JiggaJazz Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah I doubt it, passives should never be that intricate. Passives should be slight buffs, not something you base a whole build off of. Lol at the people +1ing the OP, why don't we just make ember good instead of relying on some ridiculously powerful passive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edermask_ Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yeah I doubt it, passives should never be that intricate. Passives should be slight buffs, not something you base a whole build off of. Lol at the people +1ing the OP, why don't we just make ember good instead of relying on some ridiculously powerful passive? Why don't you give us some suggestions then? It's true that as a passive it's pretty strong, but what of it? These are just ideas with numbers to go with them. These mechanics are pretty interesting and I would like for ember to have a way of taking a bit more damage, it is also a very interactive passive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)JiggaJazz Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Why don't you give us some suggestions then? It's true that as a passive it's pretty strong, but what of it? These are just ideas with numbers to go with them. These mechanics are pretty interesting and I would like for ember to have a way of taking a bit more damage, it is also a very interactive passive. I'm not an ember player but I shouldn't have to give you explanations as to why when its clear that a frame should just be good rather than require some dumb passive that makes you question all other passives in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roboplus Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 It is true that this is far more intricate than a passive that disables heavy falls or increases the duration of your power's status effects. That's not to say it's complicated, at least no more so than Energy Channel. Some frames don't need multifaceted, or even good passives. Some frames would benefit greatly from them. There is no design philosophy that says passives can't be intricate. The point is for them to fit thematically and to have a use. This fits thematically. This would have use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edermask_ Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'm not an ember player but I shouldn't have to give you explanations as to why when its clear that a frame should just be good rather than require some dumb passive that makes you question all other passives in the game. Not all warframes abilities are on the same level and I think passives would be a way to help balance exactly that. A frame should indeed be good without its passive, I never said it shouldn't nor did I ask for explanations about why you believe that. I also think that Ember is a descent frame but needs that little bit of a push for late game missions and that passive would do just that. I'll admit that I haven't played Ember nearly enough to say that it's the best way to solve her late game problems. It is true that this is far more intricate than a passive that disables heavy falls or increases the duration of your power's status effects. That's not to say it's complicated, at least no more so than Energy Channel. Some frames don't need multifaceted, or even good passives. Some frames would benefit greatly from them. There is no design philosophy that says passives can't be intricate. The point is for them to fit thematically and to have a use. This fits thematically. This would have use. I completely agree with you and I feel like your passive would add more depth and decision making to ember's gameplay which I'm all for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Tbh Accelerant for Overheat was a reasonably good trade 1:1, but they could have just given her Accelerant and removed Fire Blast and moved Overheat up to her 3. Seeing as a few other frames have comparable damage reduction skills now and Fire Blast is still of pretty limited use, I don't understand why they haven't gone this route. People have been asking for this since the day they took Overheat away, and they went ahead and gave other frames basically the same mechanic as Overheat in terms of DR lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltraumfred Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Actually, let me posit my initial misreading of the OP as an alternative suggestion. Fireblast goes out, Overheat comes in. When maxed, it adds 100 to armor (as the damage reduction) and as heat aura damage effect. It also gives heat resitence equal to 1/5 of the armor bonus, which maxes at 95%. The Bonuses are modified by power Strength If you spent energy, the armor and the heat aura damage goes up by 1 and the heat resitence by 0.2% per energy point spent. It looses those bonus points with a rate of 1/s, modified by duration. If you deactivate the power prematurely, it causes a fire shockwave just as fireblast did. The damage of this is aura damage *2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbabenali Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Nice idea, but with Equinox getting a inherited lvl 1 Equilibrium and Saryn a lvl 1 status prolong, I fear Ember will get a lvl 1 Warm Coat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alergiclaprosti Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) A very good idea ....... Lore wise also ...... it lights up whole rooms ... it should be able to use that heat for some kind of protection. Pure damage reduction is too much, but Ember could be covered with overshields for some percent of all the fire damage dealt. Edited October 21, 2015 by alergiclaprosti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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