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Developer Workshop: Saryn Ability Rework

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Contagion - can it be applied to all weapons and not only melee ?

Sounds good but please this?

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I'm glad Saryn's getting some love, she needed it. I think Ash needs some love as well, It's always a shame to see a warframe with that "one useless ability" and his teleport is definitely that to me. Same thing with Nyx's psychic bolt and Loki's switch teleport. Teleportation is good if it is to a specific point that isn't contingent on anything other than it being unobstructed, anything else and it's severely limited and loses the intended freedom short-range teleportation is supposed to encompass.

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Developer Workshop: Saryn Ability Rework

 

Tenno - if you're interested in a comprehensive look at the upcoming Saryn Rework, read on! To see part of the Rework in action, click here: https://youtu.be/t2EAA26nKx4?t=39m34s

 

There are a lot of modding quirks with Saryn - the quick deadliness of her 'Miasma' depends on negative duration mods, which ultimately makes it tricky to get the best use out of the rest of her Abilities.

 

Many of us here at DE felt more synergy was needed between powers, and we wanted to put a particular emphasis on spreading disease/toxicity with her kit. As always, this is subject to change, but take a look at what we have so far:

 

Venom

  • Guaranteed Viral proc on explosion of spores.
  • If current host has a toxin Proc (i.e from Contagion or any other source), it will transfer that proc too.
  • Damage ticks will be done every second, duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • Increase base damage of the ability.

 

Molt

  • Venom can be cast on Molt, infects units which attack Molt.
  • Miasma cast in range of Molt will feed into Molt, creating more damage on explosion.

 

Contagion

  • Guaranteed Toxin proc on melee hit.
  • Detonates a Venom spore if the target has one.
  • Damage output scales based on a percent of total damage of melee weapon with Mods, not base.

 

Miasma

  • Damage ticks will be done every second, Duration will affect how long the debuff is up.
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Viral proc (Venom guarantees a Viral proc when exploded).
  • 100% more damage if target is affected by a Toxin proc (Contagion guarantees a Toxin proc on impact).
  • Increase base damage overall.

 

The goal with this set of changes it to have a very active (and lethal) skill set. The combinations between Venom, Molt, Contagion, and Miasma can lead to very quick and strategic deaths. The usage of Viral procs will be key at high-level gameplay, and active usage of Venom will guarantee those procs.  

Worth noting - we are aiming to release these changes in a couple of weeks on PC. Stay tuned, Saryn lovers!

As an aside - if you're like me and you've built your Saryn for as much Negative Duration as possible, we'll put together another quick video of the changes in action on various builds to get a sense of the affect on gameplay. Will try and put something together by end-of-week or so (maybe early next week).

 

 

:D Thank you for much saryn love! Can't wait to use the abilities after the rework, they sound amazing!

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so more proc-ing and duration, well

is her miasma range upgraded?

does molt attract more fire then before?

does she gains increased armour or a small movement speed bonus?

weaker melee weapons still works great with contagion?

if miasma feed the explosion of molt does molt explosion range get an upgrade as well?

what about her regenaritve moult and Contagion cloud augments?

spamming venom and molt to stay alive gona burn energy at higher levels does she recieve lower power costs?

Contagion recieves a toggle or stays with duration (wich can have a very long duration)?

if you use regenaritve molt, vitaility and rage you already loses 3 mod slots what they think about that if Saryn gona need also a lot of duration and Strength and average Range (let stands if you need to use Steel Fiber)?

Molt only casteble once or can we create a mine field of molts?

even with tons of procs (viral) which will cost a lot of effort and energy is she still strong enhough to finish of stonger enemies?

 

*NEW BUILD* Rebecca test this out: http://goo.gl/GXpoA7

and melee fighter build: http://goo.gl/11DDiR pls try it out with a whip and primed reach! also get a volt with you!!!!!!!!!!

 

so much things gona chance with her, yes like many she is my main frame playing with overextend, regenaritve moult gives her enhough power range and damage to be used in any kind of mission, if everything needs duration and Strength she will be the large Damager over time no more instant death with huge damage like Ash, she needs so much duration for venom to be very intersting ok with venom on molt we will defintly cast venom more often but are we able to cast venom on 2 or 3 molts and with the duration she gona need will she still able to have enhough strength togheter with her survival kit, she was considerd slow / tank / damage if she will do damage more over time she needs faster movement orshe will die of course we will test her out and the real lovers will stay playing her

 

by that beying said and asked, i have one large general question: is this all chances or will DE go further and advance this new Saryn also for late game / difficoult gameplay?

 

Sorry for bad typing and Language.

 

greetings A Saryn player *lover*

Edited by 08DeCiBeL80
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Since I see many people who are 1)displeased with molt, and 2) worried about survivability with the new kit, why not turn molt into something skin to iron skin? Cast molt, but instead of leaving it behind, you wear it and take it with you. Enemies have to get through the molt to get to your health. Maybe it specifically has melee damage resistance?

Molt has an augment which heals, its should be really useful now

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Not to sound like a pain and a mostly-disliked Mesa fanboy, but I think Peacemaker does need a change. I don't mind its current mechanics, (in fact I think they're improved from the original) I just find some issue with how Peacemaker was supposed to protect Mesa from generally all directions, and now her survival is based upon our mouse sensitivity. Perhaps Mesa could be allowed to walk during Peacemaker? Something a bit like Valkyr or Excalibur, who are allowed to move freely.

 

During Hysteria, Valkyr is invincible and can roll around. (She's a BALL of rage, isn't she?)

While using Exalted Blade, Excalibur blocks automatically, and can fight as per normal.

While casting Absorb, Nyx is immobile but invulnerable.

While using Peacemakers, Mesa is vulnerable AND immobile.

 

I don't quite have Mesa yet, but the way her famous Regulators have a lower DPS than my Vaykor Marelok puts me off. The screen blur that comes about when I see my brother use Peacemaker also causes a fair bit of decreased visibility.

 

I see that Mesa DID need a rework on her "Automatic Room-Clearer", but this doesn't appear to be a rework, it seems a bit more like a slap to the face. It IS rewarding to be able to land hits with Peacemaker, but it isn't quite rewarding to know that the ten Corrupted Detonite-infused-casings heading your way, smiling like Stalker after he catches you with Unranked gear, are going to hit Mesa right in her immobile face.

 

I understand the Shatter Shield helps, but HITTING the cowardly Corpus scum (who hide behind virtually anything) is downright aggravating. The damage reduction is alright, but with Peacemaker's rework, Mesa's initial use in T4 Defenses and Survivals has not just been defeated, it has been consumed by the J-3 Golem and chugged down with a shipload of Greedy Milk.

 

Now, I understand that she does have three other amazing abilities, but that's just it. Without an effective ultimate, she's lacking the punch that every other Warframe has. Blessing was balanced, Hysteria was buffed, Exalted Blade was buffed, and Peacemaker was "reworked". Before 17.5, the trade-off for being immobile during an ultimate was either power (Mesa) or defense (Nyx). Mesa currently doesn't get any benefits for being a sitting duck, except a 20%-30% damage increase. That doesn't help when there are around forty Infested in one room, and all are running towards Mesa. If she could WALK then maybe she'd stand a chance. I can't think of how such a mediocre energy pool can provide enough firepower, and one pitiful sitting duck can take down an entire horde of Infested when they are whaling away at her legs.

 

Back to my suggestion, maybe it could be made possible for Mesa to be able to walk during Peacemaker, so she could be placed on equal grounds with other Warframes? (And not suffer complete humiliation by getting leg cramps while unloading her Regulators?)

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

OK, I just got Mesa. Peacemaker is the worst ulti in game. I'm going to shut up now and send her for scrapping. Send her back to Mutalist Alad V and tell him he can have his waifu- I mean piece of junk back.

Edited by Ollnozz

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Not to sound like a pain and a mostly-disliked Mesa fanboy, but I think Peacemaker does need a change. I don't mind its current mechanics, (in fact I think they're improved from the original) I just find some issue with how Peacemaker was supposed to protect Mesa from generally all directions, and now her survival is based upon our mouse sensitivity. Perhaps Mesa could be allowed to walk during Peacemaker? Something a bit like Valkyr or Excalibur, who are allowed to move freely.

 

During Hysteria, Valkyr is invincible and can roll around. (She's a BALL of rage, isn't she?)

While using Exalted Blade, Excalibur blocks automatically, and can fight as per normal.

While casting Absorb, Nyx is immobile but invulnerable.

While using Peacemakers, Mesa is vulnerable AND immobile.

 

I don't quite have Mesa yet, but the way her famous Regulators have a lower DPS than my Vaykor Marelok puts me off. The screen blur that comes about when I see my brother use Peacemaker also causes a fair bit of decreased visibility.

 

I see that Mesa DID need a rework on her "Automatic Room-Clearer", but this doesn't appear to be a rework, it seems a bit more like a slap to the face. It IS rewarding to be able to land hits with Peacemaker, but it isn't quite rewarding to know that the ten Corrupted Detonite-infused-casings heading your way, smiling like Stalker after he catches you with Unranked gear, are going to hit Mesa right in her immobile face.

 

I understand the Shatter Shield helps, but HITTING the cowardly Corpus scum (who hide behind virtually anything) is downright aggravating. The damage reduction is alright, but with Peacemaker's rework, Mesa's initial use in T4 Defenses and Survivals has not just been defeated, it has been consumed by the J-3 Golem and chugged down with a shipload of Greedy Milk.

 

Now, I understand that she does have three other amazing abilities, but that's just it. Without an effective ultimate, she's lacking the punch that every other Warframe has. Blessing was balanced, Hysteria was buffed, Exalted Blade was buffed, and Peacemaker was "reworked". Before 17.5, the trade-off for being immobile during an ultimate was either power (Mesa) or defense (Nyx). Mesa currently doesn't get any benefits for being a sitting duck, except a 20%-30% damage increase. That doesn't help when there are around forty Infested in one room, and all are running towards Mesa. If she could WALK then maybe she'd stand a chance. I can't think of how such a mediocre energy pool can provide enough firepower, and one pitiful sitting duck can take down an entire horde of Infested when they are whaling away at her legs.

 

Back to my suggestion, maybe it could be made possible for Mesa to be able to walk during Peacemaker, so she could be placed on equal grounds with other Warframes? (And not suffer complete humiliation by getting leg cramps while unloading her Regulators?)

 

DE? Make good changes to a frame that isn't posterboy, isn't the center of fanboyism (frost and Saryn), and doesn't support Rebecca's strange cat obsession (valkyr)?!

 

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

 

Oh wait, you're serious?

 

Yeah, as nice as it would be if DE would consider how badly they messed Mesa up, I doubt they'll ever consider fixing it. Mesa is officially a trash frame and DE thinks that's how it should be, so you might as well just pretend she doesn't exist.

 

... Unless you're like me, and you're one of the ones that went through the grindwall process of getting her and now feel you wasted your time, because DE decided that rework means "FULL FLEDGED NERF".

Edited by Valsako
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and his teleport is definitely that to me.

Teleport is incredibly useful, as it has sufficient Range to traverse any area instantaneously(60m targeting Range before Mods!), and it also allows you to perform Combat Finishers on any Enemy(just humanoid for now, but Animations for non-humanoid will be here eventually).

 

if you don't use Melee Combat whatsoever, you're kind've using the wrong Warframe. 2/4 Abilities are for Melee use, and 3/4 if you use the Bladestorm Augment.

 

funny that, when you said 'useless Ability', i thought you were talking about Bladestorm until i read further.

 

 

good Abilities have multiple uses, of which can be incredibly useful, but not immediately obvious.

Teleport, like Paralysis, allows constant use of Combat Finishers.

 

Decoy Abilities, can be placed strategically to draw Enemy attention without being destroyed, and to coral Enemies to where you want them to go.

 

Miasma (as it is atm, hopefully each Tick will stun in the future) can be used to Stun Enemies for 4 seconds.

 

Well of Life can be put to actual use for temporarily removing a high Threat Enemy from combat or the Smiting combo with Energy Vampire. can also be used to make a virtually unkillable point for Link to bind to, so that you can freely Kill everything.

 

Link, for better or for worse, can allow you to funnel self Damage to Enemies far away.

 

Pull can be used to funnel Enemies into a particular Area to get them in Range of another Ability, not only just to immobilize things.

 

Silence can be used as an area CC.

 

Psychic Bolts can be used to apply some Damage and to reapply Confusion even on an Enemy that already has Chaos on it.

 

Sleight of Hand can create Electric Status Lasers in Corpus doorways that also regenerate Energy to Players standing in them.

 

Frost can stack Slows, applying 2, even 3 forms of slows to make Enemies effectively stop in time.

 

Wormhole can move Enemies far away from Players, able to remove Enemies from Combat temporarily.

 

Et Cetera.

and the best Abilities are ones with the most of these sorts of uses. Abilities should have direct, primary uses ofcourse, but having as many other uses as possible is great.

 

-snip-

you know this Thread is titled Saryn, right?

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Saryn rework (+skin?) SoonTM and Saryn Prime next in line? Ooooh bby I'ma need to get into practice with her again. Love using her, and these changes sound like great fun.

(And that frikken skin is beautiful.)

 

Only concern I have is that she *might* run out of energy a lot. This isn't too terrible, since, y'know, guns and stuff, but it's worth looking into.

 

I'll have to play with her a bit more to see if the melee-caster works well for me. Guerrilla warfare is cool and all, but planning and patience are often ignored in favor of berserk, all-out, throw-oneself-to-the-wind type stuff. Hoping to see it work out, though. ^.^

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One thing I wish I saw in this rework was a change to how Saryn's Molt would work in surviving, like having health determined by the current level of enemies, to existing until you recast Molt or its Duration runs out.

 

I would love to run a Positive Duration build if something was done for that so to be of use for reviving allies.

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random thought:

 

perhaps Molt should gain Life Leech from Melee Kills Saryn performs(10%? 15%? of total Health, not Damage). on top of it's innate Regen.

and speaking of, Molt's innate Regen should be Power Strength modifiable! been forgetting about that.

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I'm really looking forward for this. :)

 

can't wait cranking Alice Cooper while testing new builds...

 

But, i do have some questions...

 

Will the Mire get love too so it can be her signature weapon again?

Embolist?

 

and how will het energypool be treated? since fleeting expertise won't be likely to be used anymore...

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Nice. Lots of synergy and negative duration actually being negative. LOVELY start!

 

That said though, there are still a few quirks I'd like to point out:

 

* Venom / Contagion names lack of logic (pointed out so many times already). IF this is fixed, don't forget the augments!

 

* Since Contagion is directly promoting meleeing, how about making it so Molt stealths Saryn for a brief moment (say, max 4 seconds)? This allows her to close the distance more safely, it gives some further empowerment of meleeing (stealth bonus), it lets Molt actually take the aggro from Saryn more easily and finally, it brings in a female stealth character (although not as dedicated as Loki/Ash). 4 birds in one stone!

 

* Maybe Contagion could do SOMETHING more to it. Like... I dunno, minor lifesteal? Or what if it was renamed Venom Shroud (after the nameswap, so the #1 is named Contagion), which would, on top of the proposed melee bonuses, also surround here with a shortrange gas cloud, which could deal DoT damage to nearby enemies and reduce her damage taken or whatever. Just something so she can actually STAY in melee)

Adding some more thoughts to it:

 

* Miasma not benefitting from negative duration is good. But simply adding a longer DoT sounds too "normal" and too slow for Warframe's pacing, imo. So, what if Miasma instead worked like this:

Miasma always deals all of its damage over 4 seconds. During these 4 seconds, there are X amount of damage-ticks, which are dealt evenly throughout the 4 seconds. Each tick deals Y damage.

Damage (Y) is affected by Power Strength. Number of ticks (X) are affected by Power Duration (more duration = more ticks). That way, you get more damage out of both Positive Duration and Positive Strength. In a way, Positive Duration, since it adds ticks evenly spread out over the 4 seconds, kind of makes it feel like how currently Negative Duration does; It adds a sensation of "bursty" damage.

 

Furthermore, I'd like if Miasma did something else (maybe even at some cost of burst damage). What if Miasma, on top of doing its normal corrosive blastwave, ALSO created a lingering toxic gas cloud at the cast location, which deals minor DoT, but more importantly, blocks enemies' line of sight. That way, enemies have to run into the cloud to see what's going on inside, and in the cloud you could then put Molt. This way, it makes Molt's explosion more effective even against ranged enemies (since they have to get close to it)! It also lures enemies in to Saryn's location, giving her an indirect gapcloser for Contagion's melee power. It also makes Venom better, because enemies have to get closer, and cluster up next to each other more, thus allowing spores to be spread more easily.

 

Just some food for thought :)

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Saryn and sarin

Initial symptoms following exposure to sarin are a runny nose, tightness in the chest and constriction of the pupils. Soon after, the victim has difficulty breathing and experiences nausea and drooling. As the victim continues to lose control of bodily functions, the victim vomits, defecates and urinates. This phase is followed by twitching and jerking. Ultimately, the victim becomes comatose and suffocates in a series of convulsive spasms. Moreover, common mnemonics for the symptomatology of organophosphate poisoning, including sarin gas, are the "killer B's" of bronchorrhea and bronchospasm because they are the leading cause of death,[23] and SLUDGE – Salivation, Lacrimation, Urination, Defecation, Gastrointestinal distress, and Emesis.

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

I wish the devs would take this into account for her rework.

Viral doesn't fit with this. Toxic and gas does. This shizz is lethal as hek. Ttk should be low, and high cost (risk)

Dunno but I feel like these changes are too melee centric and not gruesome enough

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Will the Mire get love too so it can be her signature weapon again?

Embolist?

er, Saryn wasn't released with any Signature Weapons. the closest to that would be Afuris since the teaser Art and Icon in the game in Market and arsenal show Saryn with Afuris.

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Quick question about molt: will the explosion radius of molt be affected by range mods? Currently in game it is always 10meters with or without range increasing mods.

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Currently in game it is always 10meters with or without range increasing mods.

on the Abilities Menu?

at the bottom, click the button to show numbers with Mods calculated in on the Abilities Menu.

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While Contagion is getting some damage buff after it scales with total melee damage, it should be stronger than other self damage buffs, that increase all damage and not just melee. Eclipse is 1.75x damage, Vex Armor is 2.75x damage. Contagion should be at the very least 3-4x.

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Three points to make this perfect:

 

1) up her tankyness

 

Atm, if I go in melee range of enemys with my corrosive nikondi, if I dont spam my molt or if the enemys are lower than 45, I will die in 3 seconds.

Her health is in a good spot, but up her armor. Then she is the bruiser female frame she used to be.

 

2) make her abilities cheaper.

 

If you keep the costs of her abilities how they are now, she will never be able to cast all of them for the wombo-combo you so desperatly desire for her frame. Honestly, if the damage from miasma is going up, and it gets an upgrade in damage for every toxic-kin proc, she has insane damage. No need in upping the damage of her other abilities.... although...

 

3) contagion is STILL boring AF

 

Just a melee buff, but explodes venom and has a 100% toxic chance. I am fine with the toxic, for that increases miasmas damage, but make it more interesting in a way. Make it so that you emmit a gas cloud for gas procs and another dmg upgrade for your ult, make it so that you get some defensive boost while it is active, heck, maybe even change it altogether. Make it a hydrooit wave of toxic sludge, who leaves a gas traill, knocking enemys back. That way she has an option for CC. The range needs to be broad though, but if you still want her to be melee orientated, make the range like 12 M or so. 

Just... do something more with contagion.

 

All in all, I like the synergy in her kit. With all the procs, and the damage upgrade of her ult, Saryn seems to become the combat-mage of the late game.

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Let me start of by saying I am not much of a Saryn player but I do like the changes as they would entice me to play her more. But I always found that her third ability was kind if unnecessary; in my opinion of course. The synergy seems a bit off as when i think of her she should be toxic to the touch. I'm am unsure how set DE is on going this direction but maybe my below suggestions will help or inspire something that could really change Saryn for the better.

Venom

When targeting an enemy venom works as stated in the beginning of the thread. But when no target venom is added to your melee the exact same as contagion.

The reason I think this works well is because it keeps the energy cost down and allows for the player to actively control hour the venom is spread.

Passive

Similar to retribution mod, on hit chance of poison DMG or venom cast.

Molt

Same as posted in the original thread with an added feature that with her molt has her passive

Contagion

New skill can go here

Miasma

Same as original post

Maybe these ideas are a bit crazy or complicated but I personally feel that this will open Saryn to a more exciting rework and better synergy for her abilities and passive

Let me know what you think.

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People should stop dissing off on Contagion. Contagion was a solid melee buff before, it gives Saryn more armor ignoring damage by using her melee weapon. It was just when Damage 2.0 came where Contagion became horrible due to diminishing effectiveness after stacking it together with some elem mods.

 

It doesn't need to be replaced. It just needs to be improved, Damage 2.0 nerfed it. It just needs to get back to it's old glorious state with a solid rework. With the "current" rework, if it doesn't have stacking limitations, it will be quite similar to the old Acrid which will make it definitely one of the best melee buffs out there.

Edited by LisRestall
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