Do You Believe Warframe Is Going Uphill Or Downhill?

[Lightsmith]

I'm fairly certain the game quality has been much improved now than 1 year ago on this various post.

 

Objectively, the game is going steadily uphill, with a few bumps but it's still improving greatly.

 

In this year alone we got

 

 

PvP 2.0

Parkour 2.0

Archwing revisited

Multiple frame rebalances buffs and nerfs with more incoming (Excalibur, frost, ember, rhino)

QoL changes such as impoved waypoints and marking of rare objects, along with finally seing how mods affect our stats.

Ignoring all the new additions to the game such as frame.

 

While the grind has certainly worsen depending on how you see it, the game itself has improved greatly.

Don't forget Simaris, Relays, Clem, Cloth Physics, PBR, new tileset or two, raids. Syndicate Primaries, Shotgun buffs.

 

I don't think the grind has gotten worse, it's just remained the same, and with more content its just that much more grind.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Lightsmith

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Downhill the more new equipment you get with nothing to really use it on. I'm getting top level gear from T4 missions so... I can do T4 missions again with said gear to unlock the new thing. The game is just about new equips, not so much about what to do with them afterwards.

[VorpalReaper]

Sideways...

 

Theyre adding more stuff to get and use... but very little to use it on. It feels like youre constantly gearing up for something BIG... but theres nothing BIG there. Just more of the same.

Edited October 24, 2015 by VorpalReaper

[DuncanHydroho]

I think Warframe is too badass compared to anything that exists in gaming, so it can only go uphill.

[SmerfMaruda]

I dare anyone to say they would prefer the WF from a year ago to now.

Prefer? Nope.

But.. if tomorrow DE publish "update" that revert all changes in last year (back to Update 15.0.. exatly one year ago)

.. will i really miss something?

 

Hmm.. Parkour 2.0, one or two warframe changes, 2 or 3 new weapons / or changes, maybe Spy 2.0.

Thats it.

Not too much for whole year..

.. even if add to the list other larger addons: one raid mission, one new tileset.

 

Uphill? Sure.. but slow as hell when compare to previous year.

 

Edit:

Something like in this graph:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Binary_logarithm_plot_with_ticks.svg

Edited October 24, 2015 by SmerfMaruda

[TheBrsrkr]

The hype coaster only goes up.

/thread

[Kalenath]

So many people demanding that THEIR way be the ONLY way. That their opinion be the only facts.

 

So much salt.

 

Sorry guys. I don't see the game going downhill. I see LOTS of people who WANT it to.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Kalenath

[RAZORLIGHT]

for me... downhill if they dont rework the enemy damage and put some real endgame into warframe 

[AnOldAlias]

So many people demanding that THEIR way be the ONLY way. That their opinion be the only facts.

 

So much salt.

 

Sorry guys. I don't see the game going downhill. I see LOTS of people who WANT it to.

 

+1

Salt does make for better flavor, though..

At least sometimes, anyway. Pour to much salt and then something is ruined. :P

Yeh, it is a bit sad.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Ironic, as mag is the next frame inline of a major rework.

 

Not liking some decision, i'm fine with but downward spiral? Literally everything points to the opposite.

If it was just mag then I would agree, but it's not. There is a pattern. Coptering, Parkour that they promised versus the bunny hopping that we actually got, Mag, Excal's endless nerfs, Mesa, Life Support Drops, the Sentinel Sniper, forcing Archwing as hard as they can.  Then there are the things they have told us about coming up that seem to be following that same downward pattern, Saryn, Multishot, etc. 

 

Even the star map details we have received seem to have that same implications.

 

I like bullet jumping, but it can't compare to coptering. Even so I am willing to consider Bullet Jumping as a positive change.  So there is one positive change in this all. Several of the problems that I mentioned were actually so bad that the community blew up causing the changes to be reverted.  I don't see how this can be considered anything other than downward spiralling

[(PSN)abb12355]

I Several of the problems that I mentioned were actually so bad that the community

The problem is the community. I can't have fun being forced to use a frame I really don't want to use. The whole point of a game is to have fun, the community has forgotten that unfortunately. The game is good, but the majority of the community is not. The community is dragging the game along with it. If I can't use my favorite frames that I have fun with in a organized group, then how am I supposed to have fun?

Edited October 24, 2015 by (PS4)abb12355

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The problem is the community. I can't have fun being forced to use a frame I really don't want to use. The whole point of a game is to have fun, the community has forgotten that unfortunately. The game is good, but the majority of the community is not. The community is dragging the game along with it. If I can't use my favorite frames that I have fun with in a organized group, then how am I supposed to have fun?

The whole point of an organized group is to use pre-selected frames that synergize well. Using whatever you want doesn't fit that scenario. If you want to be able to use more frames in an organized group then you should be asking for buffs for that frame, rather than nerfs for the frames you don't want to use.  Because, if you nerf those frames, an organized group still isn't going to let you bring whatever you want.  They are just going to move on to the next best thing, and you will have to play as that instead of the frame you want to play as.

 

So nerfing Mag, Mesa, and Saryn into near uselessness isn't going to change anything.

[Lost_Cartographer]

The game is going uphill, but the community is actively sabotaging every attempt to keep it going that direction because they're all very short-term benefits focused as opposed to long term.  People can't get it out of their heads that progression = doing more damage to enemies with now more health, so we're stuck in the infinite 1:1 scaling loop, and when infinite scaling puts us at 1:100 odds they complain about fake difficulty, gravitate to the cheesiest of cheese strategies, ask for a challenge, get said "challenge" from new enemies and complain they're all just cheap gimmicks that make the game un-fun and unfair.

 

Rinse and repeat this ugly cycle.  We made the game grindy.  We watered it down to a science for rewards instead of a fun hobby.

 

Warframe is on the uptick only so long as DE is willing to ignore those that don't know what they want or know what needs to be done to keep the game play fun and engaging, and often, doing what needs to be done means upsetting the players already comfortable with how things are done, despite all their complaining about how dull game play has gotten.  Players want a challenge that doesn't involve enemies with power immunization and invulnerability frames, they're going to have to accept the balance adjustments on par with PvP  (Braton MKI = Braton Prime = Boltor = Latron = etc.) will have to be made if they want smart AI to amount to anything.  Also, DE can't keep making new assault rifles for forever.

 

So if anyone feels the game is on the way up but has this foreboding sense of dread like something is wrong, it's because you know once the game hits its plateau, it will come crashing down if it continues to play out the way it does now.  It needs to change at the fundamental level before it really is only recognized as "that really grindy game."

Edited October 24, 2015 by Littleman88

[Hypernaut1]

Prefer? Nope.

But.. if tomorrow DE publish "update" that revert all changes in last year (back to Update 15.0.. exatly one year ago)

.. will i really miss something?

 

Hmm.. Parkour 2.0, one or two warframe changes, 2 or 3 new weapons / or changes, maybe Spy 2.0.

Thats it.

Not too much for whole year..

.. even if add to the list other larger addons: one raid mission, one new tileset.

 

Uphill? Sure.. but slow as hell when compare to previous year.

 

Edit:

Something like in this graph:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Binary_logarithm_plot_with_ticks.svg

so youre saying that if you had a choice, you would rather play WF from update 15? please tell me what made the game BETTER back then? nim really interested in hearing your response. 

 

coptering? superjump? where there even augments back then? early syndicates? Slotting abilities?

 

 

i dont know about you, but im sure MOST players here would miss a lot if they were forced to play u15. Not that the game was terrible back then, but it has definitely improved by a lot with a lot more polish around the edges instead of needing to add necessary features. 

 

it also sounds very salty of you to say "sure its going uphill, but its still not that great"...like why are you even playing the game if you feel progression is too slow for you? If something was great before, and is only getting better- how do you frame improvements in a negative context?

Edited October 24, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Galuf]

Imho even if content is added it is not the content I wish for. So for me, as representing my own opinion is goes downhill. New prime frames or weapons, well wait and buy those 100p 6 monthes later or less... Why bother farming dosens of hours, I have 4 full frost primes, rhino primes soon anyway... Storyline? Well I'll make it one day anyway it's small missions, got 6forma stuffs all over the place I do not really care... I'm at the point I don't even bother looking at the new frames, I read patchnotes every month: no good gameplay upgrades no comeback. That's as simple as that.

 

Imho scalling missions(endless ones) are outdated. Excavation was the last type of endless missions that came out. It is very decent in the sense that you need moving, it scales, rewards are fluid. Defense and even Interceptions are cheesefest, and about survival it is more about having a nice gun or a party combo and WAIT than expressing your skill or having fun.

 

That is why I do not play warframe anymore, it is normal to burn out obviously. What the game needs deeply is more environnement mechanics. It is F2P ok, but imho P2P kind of advanced content or just advanced content would be nice. Dota-esque missions or random adventure encouters in missions(like rare npcs that give missions/lore progression) should be good. Also I expect the next star chart giving an incentive to speedrunning or something. (like it resets often so it's semi ladder, explore this system fast doing this or that)

 

I understand Warframe is a difficult game to balance but each time a better weapon or a new "broken" warframe is released, the actual content makes less and less sense. It's scary. To break that you need to enhance the experience somehow.

 

Lots of retards on the internet play castle crush, why not making your own castle crush game, you recruit ppl doing random missions for them and you build an empire, or pokemon duels or things like that. ANYTHING that brings variety or gives incentive to do thing... Kubrow is really a borderline component of the game, and archwing even since last review is still very lacking gameplay wise(some missions are pretty tho).

Edited October 24, 2015 by Galuf

[LordChronos]

It's getting better and better. As a founder, I knew it would get better and that's why I supported it. You guys should've seen how it was in the early days. Compared to that, the dev has done an excellent job and this is considering that it's free to play. The quality is excellent and the dev are very involved with the community and they do live streams and they listen to the community.

Sure, there are improvements that need to be done, but they always improve and update the game so it's getting better and better.

[Urlan]

Personally I feel update 18 and the upcoming Starchart 3.0 changes could make or break the game for many players including myself. I hope the intended result of making the game more acessible to newer players is accomplished but I do not have high hopes for it and dread what sounds like increased grind and less options. Other than the increasing grind and such, I can enjoy parts of most of the updates so far; I like the potential of archwing though it has not yet reached for that potential and enjoy parts of the new parkour even though I miss being able to jump attack and quick jump roll long distances. I do not think the community itself has lessened my enjoyment of the game though some players are elitist and very narrowminded in their world views about the game; that is common of many game communities - most far worse than Warframe's own. I believe that the Devs do try to improve the game but I think most of the missteps come from an admitted lack of playing the game themselves and not a lack of passion in the game.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The game is going uphill, but the community is actively sabotaging every attempt to keep it going that direction because they're all very short-term benefits focused as opposed to long term.  People can't get it out of their heads that progression = doing more damage to enemies with now more health, so we're stuck in the infinite 1:1 scaling loop, and when infinite scaling puts us at 1:100 odds they complain about fake difficulty, gravitate to the cheesiest of cheese strategies, ask for a challenge, get said "challenge" from new enemies and complain they're all just cheap gimmicks that make the game un-fun and unfair.

 

Rinse and repeat this ugly cycle.  We made the game grindy.  We watered it down to a science for rewards instead of a fun hobby.

 

Warframe is on the uptick only so long as DE is willing to ignore those that don't know what they want or know what needs to be done to keep the game play fun and engaging, and often, doing what needs to be done means upsetting the players already comfortable with how things are done, despite all their complaining about how dull game play has gotten.  Players want a challenge that doesn't involve enemies with power immunization and invulnerability frames, they're going to have to accept the balance adjustments on par with PvP  (Braton MKI = Braton Prime = Boltor = Latron = etc.) will have to be made if they want smart AI to amount to anything.  Also, DE can't keep making new assault rifles for forever.

 

So if anyone feels the game is on the way up but has this foreboding sense of dread like something is wrong, it's because you know once the game hits its plateau, it will come crashing down if it continues to play out the way it does now.  It needs to change at the fundamental level before it really is only recognized as "that really grindy game."

Adding more health does equate to artificial difficulty. Cheap Gimmicks don't make the game more challenging or mor engaging, they make it more annoying (e.g. Tar Moas). Both are just lazy ways of trying to implement difficulty.

 

When people say they want the enemies to be more challenging, they want better AI or enemies that require better strategies to beat.

 

Invincibility phases are cheap gimmicks. They artificially slow you down, but even worse, because you cannot do anything to advance the fight during this stage, it feels like a waste of your time.  There are better ways of acheiving this same result without making players feel like they are wasting their time.  For example, you give the enemy armor plating that needs to be shot a certain number of times before it falls off (benefiting rapid fire weapons) then when it falls you give players a small amount of time to attack the boss's weak point to do damage to it (benefiting snipers/bows) before he reattaches it.

 

That lengthens the amount of time it takes to take down the boss, just like the invincibility phase, but because you have to actively attack the boss to get him to his vulnerable phase instead of just standing around doing nothing, it doesn't feel like your time is being wasted. 

 

The people not happy with lazy band-aid fixes and offering real, alternative solutions are not the problem.  The problem is the people that accept literally anything they are given with a smile and blind praise even when what they are given is rubbish.   DE should be praised when they do something right, not just for doing something. 

 

 

I believe that the Devs do try to improve the game but I think most of the missteps come from an admitted lack of playing the game themselves

That in and of itself is a very bad thing.  If they don't have time to play the game then they should at least open an alpha server, pick some people to play in it (preferably people that are critical of changes - rather than yes-men), give them all the new gear in that server only, have them test it for a few weeks, gather feedback, then wipe all progress on that server.

 

Way more testers, no costs for the testers because plenty of people would volunteer, more data than they could gather on their own, less man-hours wasted on testing (since you already said they can anyway), and you get less community dissent because less poor, half-thought out changes (e.g. the original sentinel sniper nerf) get out into the wild.

[Kashuken]

This thread is a salt mine.

I dare anyone to say they would prefer the WF from a year ago to now.

I would go back to it in a heartbeat.

 

No archwing/sharkwing

No parkour 2.0

None of the super grindy quests have been made either.

No syndicates which really add nothing to the game or lore even.

No terrible events.

 

Really what has been added in the past year? Supposed to be 'year of quality' but frankly it is the 'year of grind'

[VCaptiion]

Down, if they still put Boltor Prime in MR2.

 

Edit: IKR? I want an exact date instead of soon. DE's statement doesn't always work just like the forgotten relay room addition.

Edited October 24, 2015 by VCaptiion

[TheBrsrkr]

Down, if they still put Boltor Prime in MR2.

They did say they were working on that.

[VorpalReaper]

The problem is the community. I can't have fun being forced to use a frame I really don't want to use. 

 

Taking care of balance issues is the Devs' problem, not the community's.

[Buzkyl]

If it was just mag then I would agree, but it's not. There is a pattern. Coptering, Parkour that they promised versus the bunny hopping that we actually got, Mag, Excal's endless nerfs, Mesa, Life Support Drops, the Sentinel Sniper, forcing Archwing as hard as they can.  Then there are the things they have told us about coming up that seem to be following that same downward pattern, Saryn, Multishot, etc. 

 

Even the star map details we have received seem to have that same implications.

 

I like bullet jumping, but it can't compare to coptering. Even so I am willing to consider Bullet Jumping as a positive change.  So there is one positive change in this all. Several of the problems that I mentioned were actually so bad that the community blew up causing the changes to be reverted.  I don't see how this can be considered anything other than downward spiralling

 

Bullet jumping is not coptering, bullet jumping was never meant to be coptering in the first place, so i don't see your point. Bullet jumping in not parkour 2.0, Bullet jumping, double jumping and Aim Glide is Parkour 2.0 and as a whole they've improved the game far better than coptering has by improving mobility without the use of weapons, skipping across the map clipping into walls is not mobility, that's pseudo flight.

 

Ah the "nerfs are bad" tone

 

At this point, folks who complain about nerfs are seemingly irrational in their arguments. Few nerfs have outright nerfed something into oblivion.

 

Excal- Exalted Blade no longer uses syndicate mods, it is still however one fo the strongest ults in the game

Vulkok-Likewise, still one of the strongest sentinel weapons in the game, with added status to boot.

Mesa- Does even more damage than before and is allowed to aim.

Archwing- Too complain that the staff is pushing too much archwing, you must not realize the endgoal of archwing. Which is to be blended into the game in such case as Uranus. We still have more AW improvements down the line along with added content for it.

Saryn-Reserved till use.

Multishot- Amazing how people complain about something that has not yet happened. So people complain multishot is beign erfed but the amendment that it is turning into a greater rework of weapon scaling in general falls on deaf ears. Selective reading?

 

Ofcourse the staff has made HORRIBLE blunders this year such as the chelsea kubrow let down and paywall bug it was stuck behind however, the the most part the year has brough more positive changes than negative,

 

So many people demanding that THEIR way be the ONLY way. That their opinion be the only facts.

 

So much salt.

 

Sorry guys. I don't see the game going downhill. I see LOTS of people who WANT it to.

 

Which sums up alot of the negative feelings in this thread

[(PSN)l0r3n7step]

I like the black in the color-palette.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Ah the "nerfs are bad" tone

 

At this point, folks who complain about nerfs are seemingly irrational in their arguments.

 

Vulkok-Likewise, still one of the strongest sentinel weapons in the game, with added status to boot.

I am not saing, "nerfs are bad;" I am saying,"DE is bad at nerfs."

 

Nerfs that make things useless are bad.  And DE tends to go with that, over-nerfing things into uselessness.

 

They rolled back the original nerfs on the sentinel sniper. They nerfed it into uselessness, the community blew up about it, DE rolled back the over-nerfs, and gave it a more reasonable nerf.  -You probably shouldn't be calling me irrational when you don't even understand what I am talking about.