Time - Invested On Upgrading Gear (Can We Trust In The Developers?)

[7grims]

I no longer know if its worth to invest time on upgrading my gear (forma, catalyst/reactor, and time).

Nor I know if I can trust DE, on future changes that will brake all the gear I own.

 

The fact is, the future of warframe holds for us a very good and great change, the reworking of the weapons mod system.

But, the implications of a reworked mod system are huge. The end result will be good, but when it arrives, a huge storm is awaiting all these good things.

 

Right now, I own 70+ weapons, in each of these weapons there is average of 4 formas on each, the majority are all (Madurai) V polarities.

All my investment was directed at the current meta of this game (more damage, more power), but the upcoming rework will bring true mod diversity, and I will have real modding choices, since the rework intends to motivate me to use different mods from diverse polarities, this means that all my investment has been ruined, and I will be stuck with 70+ weapons all tainted with 280 V polarities.

 

Again, this rework will be good, and I do know DE is kind enough to compensate and reimburse lost investments in such drastic game changers.

But, I'm not worried about the 280 formas I invested, I'm also not worried about 70+ catalysts I invested.

I'm worried about the hundreds of hours I invested leveling and re-leveling all these weapons.

We can expect legendary cores as compensation for removed mods, or mods that got a downgrade in rank.

We can expect reimbursement of formas invested in our gear.

But, there is no way that DE can reimburse us, for the hundreds of hours invested on upgrading all our gear.

 

And that is only my example, other players may have far more weapons, far more formas invested.

Now I have new weapons, I want to put forma in it, but how can I keep on doing these upgrades, knowing in the future it was all for nothing?

 

 

---

Frame mod system rework:

The announced changes so far only cover a rework to the weapons mod system.

What about the frames? These suffer from the same problematic mandatory mods.

Yet DE hasn't recognized or admitted frames also need a mod system rework.

There are 50+ frame mods out there, yet we only use around 9 to 13 of all those.

These mandatory mods are as problematic as all the current broken weapons mods.

Such mods being: shields/armor/health, and range/strength/duration, and efficiency/energy capacity, these become the usual suspects we constantly use and re-use over and over.

Would love to know that frames are also being looked at, and that I also need to fear all the time invested on these.

 

---

Regular gear versus alternative gear (prime, wraith, vandal, prisma, umbra, etc):

Another good example that formas, catalysts and reactors, and time, are all a wasted investment.

The sad way the game is being developed, immediately transforms any new alternative gear, into a direct superior item in comparison to the regular gear.

Each time a new batch of primes comes out, its regular frames and regular weapons that become inferior and obsolete, when compared with their superior prime relative.

How can we invest on gear? Knowing sooner or later, it might become prime, and we just own yet another piece of trash, that haves lots of forma and reactors/catalysts stuck on it.

The upcoming umbra variant(s), might just be another item that will make both primes and regulars, inferior and obsolete. (Not to mention that primes already do the same thing as regular, and have the same purpose, strategies, roles, etc. But now a 3rd variant that does the same yet again, with just another new look, and the same copy-pasted abilities)

But it isn't all about primes, all other variants (wraith, vandal, prisma, syndicate variants, etc), are too, features that just renders our owned and invested gear, into irrelevant gear.

 

 

It is really hard to trust DE, when so much of these issues are running around.

Would love to hear from DE about these very serious issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TLDR:

Current meta, lead us to invest forma on V polaraties.

Future meta, (after weapon mod system rework) will lead us to diversify on polaratie use.

We can expect all kind of compensations or reimbursements on items. But re-leveling all our weapons would make all our current invested time a waste, plus it would be ludicrous to restart leveling all our gear again.

 

 

.

 

 

 

[Archistopheles]

Inb4 "Your gear isn't irrelevant. You don't have to use the shiny new version that outclasses it."

[Photon95]

When you first started playing, you agreed on the terms that everything in the game is subject to change, and that DE is not required to reimburse any money or in-game items (or time) based on what they do change. They're basically saying "play at your own risk", which I'm ok with. I get something, they change it, I either adapt or wait for more changes. This game is still beta, and nothing is final. Even in more fleshed out games, balancing is a common thing to look after as new content gets added.

 

INB4 "balance doesn't matter in PvE": it does, and I don't need to repeat what others have said.

[venon23]

Agree with u at some point own 90% of the weapons in game and all potato and min 5 formas (some with more very few) big changes in serration like bods Vpolarity and split chamber Vpolaruty all my weapons have 3V and 2-- so  with serration and split chamber out well 2V for nothing is might be a problem 

On warframes i thing my builds are very difrent ont what u talking about 1st point shileds HP and armor   depending on the warframe a made a build with one or 2 of this stats never the 3  will range duration power effeciency welll we all use them so kinda mandatory but not so much as weapons thes why dont agree with u in the second point u got there .


but yea  changes in serration and splitchamber mods type will be a problem  not too mention prime mods like serration shot guns mod ( point blank i think is the name )

[venon23]

When you first started playing, you agreed on the terms that everything in the game is subject to change, and that DE is not required to reimburse any money or in-game items (or time) based on what they do change. They're basically saying "play at your own risk", which I'm ok with. I get something, they change it, I either adapt or wait for more changes. This game is still beta, and nothing is final. Even in more fleshed out games, balancing is a common thing to look after as new content gets added.

 

INB4 "balance doesn't matter in PvE": it does, and I don't need to repeat what others have said.

u got a point there but that doesent not mean u not gone get a little " ohh have too change my 100+ weapons again " is boring not for new players yea but old player can get a little ..... when acrid and fulx got killed i cry for 2 3 days and well we have too adapt  this time we talking about maybe all weapons in game .

but well i will enjoy the ride like i have done till now 

[Ceryk]

I'm sure that's taken into account. I would find it highly unlikely that they plan on changing the weapons overall power levels unless there's an absolute need to buff them since they are essentially unique (Ignis, Panthera, etc) and there aren't better versions of them in the game. The main goal from what I understand is to eliminate mandatory mods, allow weapons to get passive stat upgrades while you level them in mission, and redo the MR requirements so powerful weapons have higher MR requirements to use. I doubt they're going to suddenly make powerful weapons useless and weaker weapons like the Lato top tier.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Ceryk

[PookieNumnums]

Reimbursement

Nuf sed

[Kaisty]

When you first started playing, you agreed on the terms that everything in the game is subject to change, and that DE is not required to reimburse any money or in-game items (or time) based on what they do change. They're basically saying "play at your own risk", which I'm ok with. I get something, they change it, I either adapt or wait for more changes. This game is still beta, and nothing is final. Even in more fleshed out games, balancing is a common thing to look after as new content gets added.

 

INB4 "balance doesn't matter in PvE": it does, and I don't need to repeat what others have said.

While balance does matter in all games and the fact that we did sign the terms to play this game, DE would need to be sure to not alter the game to the point where the majority of players items require more extensive modding just so the players can feel that it is close to original setup before the balancing.

 

If DE went the route where players have to spend more money and time just to change the forma's on the items AFTER they went through so much already; there might be either an exodus of vets and other players who feel that DE took their money/time and ran with it, or players would stop putting effort towards Formaing items or even buying plat because why spend money on something that will get gimped later? And while there will be items that will get buffed for balance issues, in the end there will still be the problem of "Should I put extra into an item knowing it could become obsolete or weaker than what I envisioned next patch?"

 

Add to it there have been plenty of people who suggested possibly changing how the Forma system works for each item. From having it where the polarity slots could either have multiple added per slot, to free changes of polarities without having to relevel the weapons, to even just making formas additions that would attach to the highest mods without needing specific polarities laid out in the mod slots. But until DE either: gives us more information on the changes, finds a compromise, goes the route of reimbursement, or ignores what players want and try to do what the "other" companies do by going the "We make the game and you have no say!" route. I can honestly say that the last route would possibly be the worst choice out of those because nothing kills a company faster than aggravating your customer base.

[Kastorius]

I have a lot of weapons (~20) with 4-7 Forma invested in them. All that Forma represents a great deal of time and effort spent maximizing those weapons.

 

If Damage 3.0 renders a substantial portion of that effort nullifier and Void, then Damage 3.0 had better be very impressive and a noticeable improvement to the game mechanics; if not, I certainly expect some form of compensation. Otherwise, I'll be moving on. I'm absolutely not going to re-grind weapons for the sake of what I strongly suspect will end up being a blanket DPS nerf.

 

Warframe may be in "beta," and DE's EULA may award them the right to do whatever they like with their game whether we like it or not, but I reserve the right to do whatever I like with my time and money.

 

I'm not too worried, though. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I believe veteran players will in fact leave the game en masse if Damage 3.0 ends up being a huge slap in the face, and I also believe DE are well aware of this.

 

In other words, at the moment, I do trust them to either design a system that doesn't screw us over for our time spent, or to compensate us for that time.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Kastorius

[Yatazanami]

give us the ability to change polarities type even for a limited time.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

When you first started playing, you agreed on the terms that everything in the game is subject to change, and that DE is not required to reimburse any money or in-game items (or time) based on what they do change. They're basically saying "play at your own risk", which I'm ok with. I get something, they change it, I either adapt or wait for more changes. This game is still beta, and nothing is final. Even in more fleshed out games, balancing is a common thing to look after as new content gets added.

 

INB4 "balance doesn't matter in PvE": it does, and I don't need to repeat what others have said.

 

There does come a time where you have to ask is the game still in Beta because it's in beta or is it in beta because it's convenient for them/provides a shield to hide behind when they make changes to things in a game that has a functioning store. 

[crafturtoemc]

Remove all the forma and reactors, those forma that is removed can be used without levelling weapon again.

 

Or called  as the compensation formas.

Edited October 24, 2015 by crafturtoemc

[CanOfBeans]

Dude, this game belongs to DE. They can change/rework it however they want. It's a free to play game, you're the one who chose to spend time, money, effort in this game. Things can't last forever, they are subjected to change at any given time as DE wish. So unless you're paying fudgeloads of money to play and invest time in this game, feel free to move the fudge on and do something better with your life. We choose to play because we want to, the developers did not force us to commit into this game, they created it the way they want it, they can change however they like. Even if the lose a small percentage of player base due to certain changes, if they see a better future for the game, you can bet your bottoms that they will sure as hell take the risk.

[Kastorius]

Dude, this game belongs to DE. They can change/rework it however they want. It's a free to play game, you're the one who chose to spend time, money, effort in this game. Things can't last forever, they are subjected to change at any given time as DE wish. So unless you're paying fudgeloads of money to play and invest time in this game, feel free to move the fudge on and do something better with your life. We choose to play because we want to, the developers did not force us to commit into this game, they created it the way they want it, they can change however they like. Even if the lose a small percentage of player base due to certain changes, if they see a better future for the game, you can bet your bottoms that they will sure as hell take the risk.

 

You're not telling anyone anything they don't already know. DE can do whatever they wish with their game, and players are powerless to stop them. That's an established fact.

 

Yet, there's no good reason for DE not to offer some form of fair compensation if they choose to make sweeping changes that dramatically undermine the time and effort players have spent progressing in the game thus far. The game's been open to the public for going on three years at this point, and that does matter.

 

In addition, how do you think the game's reputation might be impacted if it became public knowledge that DE was willing to erase hundreds of hours of players' progress because they decided, years after opening to the public, that they didn't like the progression system they designed... in a game with a cash shop, no less? Personally, I think it would be a PR disaster.

 

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. It may not be illegal or "against the rules" for DE to do as they please, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences. There are plenty of real-life parallels to this axiom and it applies here too. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by Kastorius

[VorpalReaper]

I seriously doubt there will be 'true mod diversity'. More likely the current meta will get replaced by a new one. Itll take people a few weeks to crunch the numbers but eventually new best mod combinations will be decided on and we'll be back to square one. 

[CanOfBeans]

You're not telling anyone anything they don't already know. DE can do whatever they wish with their game, and players are powerless to stop them. That's an established fact.

 

Yet, there's no good reason for DE not to offer some form of fair compensation if they choose to make sweeping changes that dramatically undermine the time and effort players have spent progressing in the game thus far. The game's been open to the public for going on three years at this point, and that does matter.

 

In addition, how do you think the game's reputation might be impacted if it became public knowledge that DE was willing to erase hundreds of hours of players' progress because they decided, years after opening to the public, that they didn't like the progression system they designed... in a game with a cash shop, no less? Personally, I think it would be a PR disaster.

 

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. It may not be illegal or "against the rules" for DE to do as they please, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences. There are plenty of real-life parallels to this axiom and it applies here too. 

"Do not count your chickens before they are hatched" is all I can say to you. DE mentioned these changes, but how are you 100% sure that they are going with it? Do you think they would just stick to that gameplay when people start complaining? Think. That's why there's a forum community. If you're gonna complain and cry because of the aforementioned "changes" that hasn't even implemented, you should start evaluating your life.

[Kastorius]

Wew lads, it's getting pretty frisky in here!

 

DE have done far more than mention changes to the weapon modding system, and I believe it's entirely reasonable for players to express their concerns from time to time. That's part of the reason why there's a forum community—it's not just for yes-men who can't stand to see complaints and criticism of the game without banging out condescending rageposts.

 

My opinion, which I choose to share because I want to at this particular time, is that if DE erases my progress without compensation, then I'll be moving on. Don't get me wrong: I have no regrets. I've gotten hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of Warframe, it's a great game, and I appreciate it and the developers very much. I just won't be interested in continuing if my progress is ever erased for any reason.

[demminik]

There's a solution that was offered by community long time ago - allow players to swap polarities on polarized slots. Community will get cool and useful feature, everybody who polarized tons of weapons would be happy and formas'd become more valuable.

[CanOfBeans]

if DE erases my progress without compensation

What part told you they are going to erase progression?

[LazyBlissIV]

You worry too much, just enjoy the ride. What comes to pass will come to pass.

[VocalMagic]

in Better Nerf Trinity™ we trust.

[SlapClown]

Reimbursement

Nuf sed

Would be nice to get all the credits back to

[alfaomega04]

I really wouldn't care if all my weapons/frames with 4-6 forma got ran into the ground if that's what the game needed to be balanced. Please note I do not mean just blatant nerfs but actual balancing of weapons as a whole. 

 

I much rather have a balanced game than an OP weapon always being OP because the community might throw a tantrum if their baby is touched.

 

And yes yes, the time factor. Well, I play for fun now, so any time I spend in this game is time in which I'm having fun, so not a deal breaker for me either way. 

[_Medo_]

Remove all the forma and reactors, those forma that is removed can be used without levelling weapon again.

this is a great solution. this is how you save the time wasted imo

[Archeyef]

I suppose this is one way to look at it, but I look at it a different way: Time spent levelling up gear is time splent playing the game. And that is the entire point. After you've levelled up something multiple times and gotten it to the absolute apex for your playtstyle, what are you left with? Doing exactly what you were doing right before that. At a higher level, perhaps, but it is still the exact same gameplay. The game hasn't changed because you maxed out your loadout. You are merely stronger.

 

I do not think of it as a waste of time. I think of it as an opportunity to work towards making myself stronger again. It is a new challenge for me to overcome, and I will overcome it.