Dual Broncos And Bronco Not Having Damage Falloff

[matrixEXO]

Falloff is a bad mechanic, the last thing we should be doing is suggesting more of it.

Falloff is a good mechanic. It's just the falloff starting distance, damage falloff percentage per meter and maximum falloff distance that currently makes it bad. I don't hear people complaining about falloff damages in games like Battlefield and Call of Duty. Not a good comparison, I know, but given that we are firing shotgun pistols with miraculous zoom mechanic that removes most of the spread and was never fixed even after shotgun damage falloff was implemented, I think we need it as well.

 

What really should be happening is that all guns should have a falloff mechanic. Shotguns are currently seen as a major nerf because of it but when all guns actually have it, things would start to look prettier, like the sniper rifle. But this is just my opinion on it.

Edited May 31, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Cytobel]

One more thing. Shotguns point blank sucking and flechtte being good makes no sense. They have the oppsite of pistols poor base damage increase but a high armor piercing mod. Should shotgun mods improve damage well as thats their specialty but have a poor armor piercing mod as they are poor at penetration.

Against soft armors the mass impact of multiple pellets causes more stress disruption and consequentional penetration than you might think.

English: Lotsa pellets hit, armor less effective because of many impacts.

 

Shotguns are also quite vicious against metal. Once again, too much stress loading causes a surface to have less structural integrity, beyond the raw damage of each seperate pellet.  Think of it this way: will you get a larger ripple in a pool of water if you drop in 5 pennies stacked, 5 pennies slightly seperated, or 5 in sequence?

 

That said, your point is still valid.  I just got a chance to look fancy.  Ooohh, big shiny words.

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I didn't realize how drastic the damage falloff was.  That should be toned back, and a damage buff by number of pellets striking the target substituted, I think.  More impacts = more damage bonus.  Kind of how things work in real life.  To some degree there could be a static damage buff for ballistic impacts, globally, by time intervals; that many people simultaneously striking a target cause more damage than individual attacks account for.  Possibly too code heavy, but it's a thought.

 

Then again, not sure how that would balance out.

 

Edit: To clarify: I am refering to all firearms, not just Bronco / Dual Bronco.  I don't think specific is the answer.  If something doesn't work, look at the system as a whole.  Where does it fall short?  Where is it excessive?  I think that there are more balance issues with mods than actual firearms.  In general I believe that mods need the buffs/nerf, rather than any one gun.

 

That said, some guns are out of balance.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Cytobel

[Meltina]

I consider the boar to be the closest shotgun to the bronco. They fill the same role as a rapid fire close range shotgun. So I will compare the two alot.

 

Now the zoom bug I havent heard about. I just through the zoom accuracy bonus was very excessive. I think its due to shotgun accuracy adjusts the spread of the shots. So a zoomed shotgun somehow chokes it and makes a tighter spread The actual accuracy stat isnt that far spread out among the shotguns and if zoom is a flat modifer that could explain the huge performance of zooming a bronco.

 

My complaint was the unzoomed bronco had a single pellet out damaging an entire shell of other shotguns at range. I don't want the bronco to have the same problem with the boar with the steep falloff. Some carmeras can lock you out of a room beyond falloff range. The spread makes it so you only hit 1-3 pellets per shot. With falloff dropping the damage to 1 and cameras having 50 hp there is a giant problem. This effects new players who havent modded their guns or know how to slide through a lazer door. If they ran out of ammo for their other gun they are in trouble. The boar was never an issue with sniping but got the worst damage falloff ranges. I should retest as it was 12 meters for 75% damage falloff when they first introduced falloff. The introduction of fall off was like taking away my pony and giving me a poo covered stick. Then the buffed the falloff giving me a non poo stick. I am not happy with my stick. I do want my pony despite it being overpowered because who doesn't want a pony but geez atleast give me a dolly. Right now the falloff on the other shotguns is the main reason it outperforms other shotguns. Except the boar the boar was always bad. We do not want broncos to become pistol boar.

 

Bronco has another issue. Shotguns have an ammo cap of 150. Pistols has 210 bullets. You almost never needed to switch weapons or use an ammo box. One of the biggest advantage to long guns was the maximum ammo capacity to sustain through a map as the damage was not that much higher than a pistol round. Thats more of a universial mechanic and causes alot of problems for other weapons.

 

The load speed of the broncos and some other shotguns seems off too. It looks like the shot gun is the kind you crack open and jam in the shells while yelling this is my boomstick. Indivitualy loading shells should take longer than swaping a magazine animation wise. They covered the reload animations in the livestream so I do hope reload speeds of weapons will be looked at.

 

I would like more pellets and a bigger spread to be the solution to falloff but with how the game rounds down with mods and damages after resistances having a bunch of little tiny hits not do much. PreU7 it was pointless to use a elemental mod below a certan percentage as it added 0 damage to your shots.

 

I wouldnt mind falloff starting at 10m If it was a gentle curve and had a reasonable cap. It already has pellet spread to force some damage loss. 5m is a bit too close because modded melee weapons have their swings reach that range. The side arm catagory is getting a bit mixed with melee. The glavie is a melee and thrown yet the kunais are thrown too. Give bronco a pistol whip and make it a melee weapon if the range is gonna be that short. 

 

The steep and large falloff was a giant issue for me but the fact it was shotgun only seemed wrong. All weapons should have the falloff mechanics or none at all. The loss of force should also have bullet drop and travel time so there is some visual confirmation of falloff if they do make it a universal mechanic. I did not play warframe to be a realistic shooter so I would rather not have falloff, drop, and travel for all weapons. 

 

I do feel the point blank burst dps of a bronco is a bit too high too. This is more of a mod problem but being able to one shot enemies in t3 tower or instantly kill a t2 anicent is a bit too much. There is no firing delay on the broncos. Its like prenerf akboltos. If the put a fire rate cap like the akboltos did to not fire faster than a grakata it would totaly ruin the double barrel feels of the bronco. Being able to fire both almost instantly gave the feeling of dual weilding a pair of double barreled shotguns. The damage is like a strun but it fires like a boar. I do not want the bronco to become pistol boar either. The boar sucks and pistol boar would suck even harder.

 

What is fun is with most weapons the bronco is fast enough to fire in the middle of your melee combo without interrupting it. So you can slash your sword and leave a spray of bullets. It is like having a gunblade.

 

I took the poor penetration for its usual use of killing people without piercing too many other walls to keep others safe. I guess it can use the same properties of a mace to kill people in armor. Blunt force transfering through. So it probly be more of a weak penetration mod but i dont think metal augur and the shotgun equilvent are diffrent at the moment i gotta check that. I hate armor piercing and penetration the two terms are interchangable and makes talking about them a pain.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Meltina

[matrixEXO]

@Meltina

 

I doubt you can charge a Heavy weapon and with it's entire animation be the same damage as a Bronco at 5m while the Bronco is just not modded.

 

 

Also, fall-off should start at 10m from the gun for all shotgun types but with unique effects. Falloff from 10m to designated ideal value should always be 1%, followed by a sharp increase from the designated ideal value right to the very end. Broncos do have to have a 5m range falloff starting point though since it's much much better that way and also mechanically works with reality given it's short barrel.

[Meltina]

Well the armor ignore can easily make the melee weapon out dps the unmodded bronco i think the real problem with melee weapons as the damage mods are over priced and underpowered but thats for a diffrent topic.

 

I was actualy thinking pretty close of your numbers. My idea was 10m start for falloff and 2% per meter to 25 meter cap of 30% fall off. Have the other shotguns have a longer starting point but a smooth 2% loss per meter Strun and Boar could start at 15 and hek could be 20. We could comprimize and say 7.5 meters so it atleast gets to have full effectiveness slightly outside of melee range. I just don't like the idea of having a sword swing get full effectiveness at a longer range than a gun even if the maximum range is much shorter.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

After using all the shotguns and nearly all the pistols I believe the only real fix needed is to the zoom bug. Without it, it'd become an impractical pain to use it past 10m or so where a Lex would be better and a damage fall off (dealing from experience with the shotgun falloff) would cost the gun what little efficiency it has. It'd quickly become a matter of why not use a weapon that's more accurate and consistent? If the bug gets fixed the bronco's will fall in line just fine, not perfectly but then there is rarely a weapon that falls into its place perfectly in this game to begin with.

[matrixEXO]

After using all the shotguns and nearly all the pistols I believe the only real fix needed is to the zoom bug. Without it, it'd become an impractical pain to use it past 10m or so where a Lex would be better and a damage fall off (dealing from experience with the shotgun falloff) would cost the gun what little efficiency it has. It'd quickly become a matter of why not use a weapon that's more accurate and consistent? If the bug gets fixed the bronco's will fall in line just fine, not perfectly but then there is rarely a weapon that falls into its place perfectly in this game to begin with.

Problem is, not only was the bug long existent (until I tried it) even pass the shotgun damage falloff update but also that the devs couldn't/didn't even do anything to it. I would take the problem lies with people as well being a plain exploiter in general but that would be an exaggeration of the playerbase.

 

It HAS to do with the devs either being short-handed (easily solved by hiring more people), not putting it as top of the priority list (halting updates for a bug fix is better than giving us updates but allowing such bugs to exist) or not entirely bothered about the gun because they only hipfire them to test it out (which could be an obvious reason since hipfiring Broncos are not affected). Either way, it just gives the feeling like they aren't bothered about the game, which I said above a few posts ago.

 

EDIT: I might be overly critical about the way I'm seeing DE run their game but unless this game has a S#&$-ton of coding behind a single system (zoom), then I cannot say anything. Zoom should never affect shotgun-type weapons. Pellet spread is based on the gun's barrel, not the way you hold the gun. Simply put it, remove zoom accuracy effect on shotgun-type weapons and we are done with fixing it.

Edited June 1, 2013 by matrixEXO

[Enlil]

The broncos dont have damage falloff? Then they must be

God, i love dog cookie's. wanna tease me??