Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[JeyciKon]

buff miasma, just do it..

Edited November 5, 2015 by JeyciKon

[Phatose]

Why is toxic lash a cast instead of a toggle?  It should be a toggle.

[Helch0rn]

That's a decrease in effective health.

 

 

• Miasma Revisions
  • Increase base damage overall.

 

You actually decreased it from 375 to 350.

 

Overall this feels like a massive nerf. I spend more energy to do less damage over a much longer period of time while being less tanky.

Wow didn't see the damage decrease of miasma.

 

and here I was saving up plat for the Saryn skin ... well I will use it on something different then

[direcyphre]

 mmmmm is that enough energy i feel like saryn is going to need more energy than any other frame now im ok with that of course but i feel like she is going to need A LOT of energy

It's on par with the other caster frames, meaning you get 450 with a maxed Flow.

[Hammahness808]

Update states that base damage for Miasma was increased. True, the base damage per tick may have been increased but, the overall damage of the ability has been decreased to 1050, when it used to be 1500 (according to old wiki entry). Ofc, I might be missing that extra beginning tick...

 

Molt still has very low health. It'd be great if it didn't have health and instead was just duration based and gave a debuff to enemies who melee it.

 

Reducing her third ability to a 50 energy cost was a great change, the damage increase is much better. Combined with regenerative molt and the damage reduction added to block, it's really easy to run around using only melee. Which is a nice change.

 

Having her first and third ability be cast without interruption to movement is very nice.

 

Overall, great changes, However, I feel like the base damage of the ability of Miasma should be at least 1500 total damage unmodded.

[Helch0rn]

It's on par with the other caster frames, meaning you get 450 with a maxed Flow.

but since you need to cast ALL OF THE SKILLS just to do decent damage she probably has the highest energy drain. she could use an energy treatment similar to Volt prime

[RHuckebein]

Ok, time for a real feedback here. 

 

Trading that health for armor was not necessary, but the energy buff is godsent.

 

Spore: good, but slightly bugged.

 

This is the worst thing about saryn being a press-4-to-win frame before.  Nobody actually knows how her old abilities worked.

 

Spore is strictly inferior to venom.  Venom was a much better ability, that was actually worth using farther into the game than any of saryn's other abilities (even miasma!).  Spore does less damage, spreads less, and lasts less time.

 

Spore is a nerf.

 

 

It's on par with the other caster frames, meaning you get 450 with a maxed Flow.

 

Other caster frames aren't expected to cast 3 abilities with a landed melee attack in the middle to work, and aren't punished severely for the -duration on fleeting expertise so they have much more freedom to mod in since max efficiency is required for caster frames that have no built-in energy recovery mechanics.

[Luckyo]

Predicted Saryn rework effect: everyone will now be asking for Oberon for draco. Oberon rework incoming in 2016!

[BlackCoMerc]

This entire affair began with the thought that having a "Room Nuker" was bad.

 

I am...no longer certain that was/is the case. 

 

Warframe is a horde mode game. Whatever the devs say, it is. Very little AI; no enemy tactics; massive numbers of spawns that walk right into player fire. Its Killing Floor in space.

 

Warframe NEEDS a Nuke. 

 

Warframe does offer time to wait on your Nuke to finally deal sufficient damage to BE a Nuke. The Nuke needs to just...happen.

 

Okay, there's problem number 1: The (false) assumption that Nuker = Bad.

 

Problem 2: Energy. 

 

Once again, in response to spamming a power, the power gets nerfed.

 

With zero thought to the player's ability to keep spamming it. 

 

The problem isnt powers. Its the overabundance and ready availability during missions of frame energy. When are we are finally going to learn that making energy slightly more scarce is the real answer. 

 

Here's an idea for how we fix this:

 

-No more Energy Pizzas

 

-No more energy orbs

 

-Players receive 2 energy per kill of their own; kills by others within affinity sharing range restore 0.5 - 1 energy per kill. 

 

 +1 Extra energy for Stealth kills/Style kills (sliding or aim glide)

 

 +2 Extra energy for (your own) Headshots. 

 

 +2 Energy for Melee kills

 

 +1 Energy for kills using abilities OTHER THAN Ultimates. (Kills using Ultimate abilities would not restore energy). 

[CelticMoss]

Her rework totally gutted her.

 

A nerfed effective hp when she was supposed to be higher hp.

 

Abilty's that will get you killed trying to setup vs stronger mobs then have miasma having no point anymore with no stun and really crap damage. 

 

And still slow as a woman with constipation.

 

And let me put this into your mind

 

See him?

 

 

You know he goes invisible and also has a ult that make him immune to damage?

 

He's also higher in effective hp then saryn while he's got to go fast. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by SarahApple

[xRufus7x]

Her rework totally gutted her.

 

A nerfed effective hp when she was supposed to be higher hp.

 

Abilty's that will get you killed trying to setup vs stronger mobs then have miasma having no point anymore with no stun and really crap damage. 

 

And still still slow as a woman with constipation.

 

And let me put this into your mind

 

See him?

 

 

You know he goes invisible and also has a ult that make him immune to damage?

 

He's also higher in effective hp then saryn while he's got to go fast. 

You know they are changing Ash's ultimate don't you.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Ok, time for a real feedback here. 

 

Trading that health for armor was not necessary, but the energy buff is godsent.

 

Spore: good, but slightly bugged. Toxic lash does not always trigger the spore explosion from what I saw, unless it's intended only to proc when other enemies are nearby (a single boiler with spores, hit by toxic lash, only got poison status).

 

Molt: was good from the beginning actually, casting spore to it really does the trick. Works wonderfully with regenerative molt (run, spore, calmly heal while enemies get viral procs). Casting miasma close to it makes it explode, thus diffusing every kind of nasty status.

 

Toxic lash: something's off. It says 1.56 multiplier with 185% power strength, when it should be 2.4 or something. It's acting like it's a +30% damage buff, and considering it was +75% before, I'm quite sure it's a bug. Poison procs work fine from what I've seen.

 

Miasma: this one I did not like. I don't know the current damage script, but with positive duration still does little damage without poison and viral procs active. In tight situations is difficult to have them both on large groups of enemies, and even 150 base energy is barely enough to spread statuses (non considering the ones that teammates and weapons can give, just powers) and then casting a miasma. Considering the importance of duration now, fleeting expertise is kinda ill advised, and with only a non primed streamline to use, using this ability is too expensive energy-wise to be worth, if you ask me. I think this one can be improved a bit.

 

That's it. Just fix toxic lash if it's not doing what it's supposed to do and do something for miasma, right now I don't feel it's worth it.

Toxic lash is adding a percentage to a percentage or something it seems. Rather than being 1.3, it's 0.30, which makes it so 1.3+85% isn't 2.4 because the math seems to be 0.30+85%, which is 0.555, and so you add back the one to multiply the damage and round it up and you get 1.56 damage multiplier.

[CelticMoss]

You know they are changing Ash's ultimate don't you.

They did?

Eh well my computer is out of commission so i can't really play anymore

But still with him flying about everywhere it's hard for the Ai to get a good beat on him. 

[TopMaverick]

sooooo. what from i've played so far, equinox has replaced saryn. awesome. Low duration miasma is no longer a nuke, spending about her whole energy capacity to even do a fraction of what she did before, and yet she can not kill level 40+ enemies. Thanks for this "buff" all that saryn prime hype went down after this "rework". The rework track record was soo good, excalibur, frost...but saryn?? Absolutely killed her main ability and use- being a AOE damage type.

 

At this moment, saryn cannot solo anymore by having a crowd control ability, which she was made for. Crowd control. Saryn has reached mag & hydroid levels.

 

Also: my memory may be foggy, but i don't recall excal, frost, or ember taking a negative impact to health, shields, armor, or energy when one or two were increased. Is there a valid reason for reducing her health to balance with armor? Shame..Shame...

[MrDar1o]

I killed whole room of enemies by using Spore on one of them. 

If you thing Saryn sucks now learn how to play her. 

[AM-Bunny]

They did?

Eh well my computer is out of commission so i can't really play anymore

But still with him flying about everywhere it's hard for the Ai to get a good beat on him. 

 

You mean you keep trashing Saryn's revamp and you haven't even tried it?

[BlackCoMerc]

No. 

 

No there isnt.

 

Long answer: She lacks a tank for survivability. Her Molt is unreliable as a distraction/aggro draw. Spore does very little damage and is difficult to spread among enemies. And Miasma...is a joke. Its absolutely terrible.

 

And before you go throwing up the old 'boo hoo you cant press 4 to win so you cry about it' no, that isnt it. 

 

What we have here, is a frame whose survivability and and contribution to a team is the ability to kill large numbers of enemies quickly, but who cannot achieve that. 

 

Bring Nova and perhaps Equinox instead. Or Oberon. Or Nyx Prime. Saryn's only remaining contribution following this rework, is to your mastery level.

 

The good news: Another Prime Access frame I will NOT be tempted to buy. At all.

Edited November 5, 2015 by BlackCoMerc

[CelticMoss]

I killed whole room of enemies by using Spore on one of them. 

If you thing Saryn sucks now learn how to play her. 

GJ you killed level 20 mobs with spore now try it with a level 100 corrupted gunner. 

[Acos]

We call this the "knee-jerk reaction to things being different" phase. I'll wait to pass judgement until people have figured out how she works again. 

[DrBorris]

Wow... Saryn is ridiculous now. Maybe Toxic Lash could use a bit more prominent fx, but overall awesome. Oh, and spores seem to not render on bombards and they often lag into existence.

 

 

Just one quick idea, what if Spores distributed all procs on that enemy to the surrounding enemies. So if an enemy with spores on it has a radiation proc a radiation proc will be given out to all enemies when a spore pops... Maybe that would be a bit OP.

[SaNE_]

You know that it's not as good (was pretty obvious on the devstream) and you've made players do more work (trying to combine abilities) for less effective damage, not to mention effective health has been decreased and put out as a buff...

 

You thought you had learnt something from Mesa's rework but instead of aiming, you've make people press more buttons (which puts a massive drain on your energy) to do less and have less effective damage.

 

I like the skin, it's just too bad I won't be using Saryn anymore until her next rework much like Ember where she was pointless for over a year...

Edited November 5, 2015 by SaNE_

[xRufus7x]

They did?

Eh well my computer is out of commission so i can't really play anymore

But still with him flying about everywhere it's hard for the Ai to get a good beat on him. 

Not did, are going to. He will launch clones to attack enemies rather than jumping around himself. His invulnerability will likely go to.

 

Also the Saryn update has been out for what, 30 minutes. Everyone should probably calm down and try some new builds with her before deeming her useless.

[Helch0rn]

You know they are changing Ash's ultimate don't you.

But they won't effigy it up as bad as they did Saryn

Saryn went from a decent nuker to a "glasscannon" that fires cottonballs

 

not only does she have less effective HP now, she also guzzles energy like a truck guzzles gas, all while having new skills that do less damage than before which are tedious to set up do get decent damage.

 

If I can kill mobs faster with my unpotatoed unformad meleeweapon something is wrong

[CelticMoss]

You mean you keep trashing Saryn's revamp and you haven't even tried it?

I know how saryn plays since i have been using her for 2 years so i can easily tell what will work and what will not.

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

They did?

Eh well my computer is out of commission so i can't really play anymore

But still with him flying about everywhere it's hard for the Ai to get a good beat on him. 

No, they're working on changing him. So perhaps a few months in the future he'll actually get whatever change is coming to him.

 

Back on track of the thread though, ran a few tests and pretty disappointed with how they've changed her. Even while compiling the damage boosts to make Miasma more damaging, it's still not great. Better than the previous form of Miasma, but now you have to get close and personal with a melee weapon and risk death against high level enemies to get the most out of it.