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Update 17.10.0

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Yes Miasma spammers are annoying, just like Exalted Blade spammers, or Pull spammers, or Peacemaker buttonpushers or or or.

And because some noobs were spamming those abilities, DE nerfs and punishes all of us.

 

Though I see a "Draco" pattern here... at first DE said "greedy pull" is the problem of Draco (pulling energy to Mesa), and they nerfed it, but it changed nothing, except for Mag vanishing from player lists, the only Mag I see nowaday is played by my roommate, when we go vs Corpus.

Then they nerfed the Mesa, as the problem of Draco. Mesa was sought-after a lot for various missions (especialy high-lvl defense), since the "nerf", no longer. On Draco, Mesa was replaced by Saryn.

Now there is a Saryn "nerf".. she is still a playable warframe (like Mag and Mesa), but she can no longer perform her Draco role like before, she no longer stands out to do something especialy well.

 

I saw a lot of "hosting xy, looking for greedy mag", before the changes.

I saw a lot of "hosting xy, looking for mesa", before the changes.

I saw a lot of "hosting xy, looking for saryn", before the changes.

Noone is looking for mag anymore.

Noone is looking for mesa anymore.

Noone is looking for saryn anymore.

When will changes (but lets keep to call it nerfs) hit Frost, Trinity, Nova? Lokis disarm is also quite powerfull...

 

I wonder when all this Draco zombies notice they are only exploiting a bad designed map.

I wonder when the DE pack notices that too and finaly redesigns the map.

 

Its not a bad map design, Its a loot cave. There will always be one. This I'm not worried about. While its true, yes all of these things will come to frames with OP abilities and bad ability synergy, this will allow us to actually PLAY the game. I await eagerly any changes they have to Trinity, Loki or any other frames, and will adapt to them just the same. DE is trying to move away from the Press X button to win play style, which if you'll look at all those frames you listed, supported.

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Good update, but I have one problem.
Can I buy sugatra out of "deluxe skin collection", please? Don't wanna zoren skin and already bought Orphid, but really wanna have a sugatra. 

Please?..

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Too much work to get kills with Saryn now.

 

I just switch to another frame and delete this crapframe for now. As i doubt DE is going to buff things again, after they nerfed something to death.

 

GG WP.

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I really don't understand all the Saryn salt.  As far as I'm concerned this is a welcomed improvement, and as far as I can tell, there is absolutely nothing in this update that prevents Saryn from being a Miasma-bot as always.  You just have the OPTION now to be much more.  Why anyone complains about more and better OPTIONS is beyond me, but meh, whatever.

 

 

Fixes:

  • Fixed an issue enabling players to mantle recently fired Ogris rockets.

 

This is what angers ME this update.  You mean to tell me my Mesa had the opportunity to be Slim Pickens from Dr. Strangelove and you actually patched this out?  Ok, fine, it's a bug, but it's an AWESOME bug that I really, really wish I could've experienced before you removed it!

 

Never mind the (awesome) Saryn changes.  THIS is what we should be outraged about!  Give me my ride-able Ogris rocket back!

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I don't even understand why Draco is bad. It lets you skip grinding up a weapon just to see if it's good. The fun part of this game to me was never taking a few days to level up something and then going "nah I don't like it." It's not like some players using Draco impacts your game if you don't like going there? I don't personally know anyone who goes "I got a new weapon! Time to do random missions for a few days until it's level 30!"

 

If you want to make Draco somehow unrewarding, you need to completely change how the map and affinity sharing works, or nerf Mirage, Equinox, Oberon, Valkyr, Excalibur, basically every frame that's good at killing enemies efficiently. People are always going to tend towards efficiency. Efficiency is just "the least effort for the greatest reward" and it's how humans as animals work. It's not satisfying to be inefficient.

 

Warframe is a farming game. If you want to get rid of ways to efficiently farm, remove all abilities that cause damage and enjoy the slow, dreadful slog the game becomes.

 

It's not fun to have to do a bunch of button presses for far, far less of an effect than she used to be able to do, or less than many other frames can still do. Because that's the issue, it's not just that Saryn is weaker so much as she now cannot keep up with more powerful frames. She has very little to contribute to a group that's actively killing enemies.

 

And even then, this Saryn change doesn't just make her less viable in Draco farming. It makes her less viable in everything. All her abilities rely on setting up a combo that requires your allies to not kill everything before you can start a DoT on them. Requiring more button presses doesn't make her require more skill to play.

 

Everyone can celebrate "yaay Draco is dead" but for people who used Saryn outside of Draco, for people who actually liked her, there's nothing good left. Warframe is a game about killing bad guys. Saryn is now bad at that.

 

And it's not like with Loki or Banshee where she makes killing bad guys easier either I mean. If you manage to actually chain a viral proc across a group, it still decreases their effective health less than a Banshee or Nova would have for less effort. Even Hydroid is fun to turn into a puddle and eat people or catch people in tentacles even if he isn't very efficient at killing guys. Saryn doesn't even have anything goofy going for her.

Edited by AutumnBramble

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i look forward to saryn prime time and hope all those idio.. man, that post "thanks, de" on saryn grave will buy her prime pack :) i will enjoy the show. becouse i will not buy this bull$hit, definetly.

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Its not a bad map design, Its a loot cave. There will always be one. This I'm not worried about. While its true, yes all of these things will come to frames with OP abilities and bad ability synergy, this will allow us to actually PLAY the game. I await eagerly any changes they have to Trinity, Loki or any other frames, and will adapt to them just the same. DE is trying to move away from the Press X button to win play style, which if you'll look at all those frames you listed, supported.

 

 

Ash

Ember*

Equinox*

Excalibur*

Mag (in corpus maps)

Nova

Valkyr*

 

All 1-button press-to-win frames.

 

The 4 marked with asterisks all had recent reworks to make them more 1-button press-to-win.  All of those except equinox also have a 'press two buttons to win harder' option.

 

Mirage honestly probably belongs on the list too, because She needs 2 buttons and a left click but both of those buttons are 40+ second buffs.

 

DE isn't trying to move away from press x to win, literally all of those changes were 100% focused around Draco.

 

Oh and also wanted to mention: Even before the saryn nerf every frame on this list was already better than saryn.

Edited by RHuckebein

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Its not a bad map design, Its a loot cave. There will always be one. This I'm not worried about. While its true, yes all of these things will come to frames with OP abilities and bad ability synergy, this will allow us to actually PLAY the game. I await eagerly any changes they have to Trinity, Loki or any other frames, and will adapt to them just the same. DE is trying to move away from the Press X button to win play style, which if you'll look at all those frames you listed, supported.

 

As you said, there always will be a loot cave, but is draco game breaking? it gives a lot of affinity and therefore a lot of standing. Does this destroy anything in the game? I don't think so. The destroying part is done by DE who balances all warframes around the most optimized setups on the loot cave maps.

 

So in non loot caves with a none optimized team we just end up with lackluster frames. Why not balance the game over the normal gameplay and let the loot caves be what they are. Btw I really enjoy playing draco with non optimized builds. Its one of the only map I can fight many enemies without having to play 20min Survival. I really hate that all survival map get decent spawn rates after 20min. Its no fun to search for the one kill.

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This isn't consistant design philosophy. No other frame requires close synergistic use of abilities to do well.

 

Ember says hi.

 

Anyway, Saryn was by far the highest damage-dealing frame when they released their metrics, it's not a surprise that they nerfed her 'murder everything in the room' button. I will say that you're right that there are still frames that exist who can still easily press 4 to win, and Saryn may not quite be one of them anymore, but if DE's longterm plan is to increase the skill cap at higher level play, I think that's a good direction to go. There's already a huge scaling problem to counter the existence of certain frames, which is making high-level play virtually impossible with many other frames. Hopefully their intent is to tone down some of the heavy-hitters so that they can tone down high level play and make it more accessible to more frames than current.

 

But it's hard to say what their longterm goal is, so we will just have to see.

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Ember says hi.

 

Anyway, Saryn was by far the highest damage-dealing frame when they released their metrics, it's not a surprise that they nerfed her 'murder everything in the room' button. I will say that you're right that there are still frames that exist who can still easily press 4 to win, and Saryn may not quite be one of them anymore, but if DE's longterm plan is to increase the skill cap at higher level play, I think that's a good direction to go. There's already a huge scaling problem to counter the existence of certain frames, which is making high-level play virtually impossible with many other frames. Hopefully their intent is to tone down some of the heavy-hitters so that they can tone down high level play and make it more accessible to more frames than current.

 

But it's hard to say what their longterm goal is, so we will just have to see.

 

1: Ember can run through T4 by just pressing 4 at the start of the map and then occasionally pressing 2.  You don't even have to shoot or even pay much attention to the screen.

 

2: Saryn has always been outclassed on killing things outside of low-level missions.  See: every frame listed in my previous post.

 

3: Saryn already didn't belong at a 'high level of play,' and now she belongs there even less.  Nothing done to a mediocre nuking frame will have anything to do with what goes on at a high level of play.

 

4: The scaling problem wasn't introduced to counteract certain frames, the scaling problem exists entirely because DE lacked the foresight to understand what their algorithm would do.  The reason that you only see certain frames dealing with it is that they're the only ones who scale well enough to compensate for the game.

 

5: Their longterm goal is increasing the grindwall in order to get more people buying platinum, and it has been ever since the china merger.

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Ember says hi.

 

 

Ember's my most used frame across regular and prime versions. Ember says "I pushed 4 like ten minutes ago. There are a few guys nearby who aren't going down quick enough so I pushed 2. Okay, there they go. I'm going to fire my gun some more. Mmhmm."

 

Ember spent the longest time being one of the worst frames and she's arguably only "okay" now. Mostly because other frames are having their powers reined in? Mesa having to actually aim makes Ember's constant, one-target-at-a-time, short-range WoF kind of fill an OK niche now I think.

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I just hope they won't nerf all other Warframes like this. I know Miasma was overpowered but they turned Saryn into a piece of uselessness. The new wannabe dot-monster with no major damage at all unless you have a degree in multitasking. The day I'll play Saryn again is the day when all the alternatives will stand out as even more bigger pieces of uselessness.

 

I hate Saryn and the changes on her. And no, I didn't want to press 4 my whole life but I was still hoping they turn her in something acceptable.

 

EDIT: Also what RHuckebein says.

Edited by Nunoninja

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Its not a bad map design, Its a loot cave. There will always be one. This I'm not worried about. While its true, yes all of these things will come to frames with OP abilities and bad ability synergy, this will allow us to actually PLAY the game. I await eagerly any changes they have to Trinity, Loki or any other frames, and will adapt to them just the same. DE is trying to move away from the Press X button to win play style, which if you'll look at all those frames you listed, supported.

 

I see your point and agree. But do not forget something: http://www.memorableplaces.com/mudwimping.html

To quite one of the first sentences there (for all those TLDR guys) and modify it a bit to todays terms: Nerfing results in more hurt players, and more shattered morale for a multiplayer-game than anything any player could ever accomplish.

That said... nerfing is always a bad decision, a better way would be to introduce new maps/mission types/mods that are harder to get by, by those "OP" abilities. And do not forget about a games lifespan... warframe is not that young, soon it will be "obsolete" no matter the changes. Greedy Pull was introduced AFTER mag, without proper testing. Saryn with its "old overpowered" miasma was introduced without proper testing... Mesa with its former peacemaker was introduced without proper testing... all other warframes with "press one button to win" abilities were introduced without proper testing, because IF there were proper testing in place, this mess wouldnt happen (and I do not want to hear something like "but DE is a too smal company")... whatever, we are out of topic in this update thread.

 

1) saryn skin is nice

2) saryn skin is missing heels

3) saryn skin should be available longer and a bit cheaper

4) saryn changes will result in more upset players then appeased players

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Still no fix for:

1.Extremely Abnormal Skill Damage (And Messed Up Body Part Multiplier)
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/516293-extremely-abnormal-skill-damage-and-messed-up-body-part-multiplier/


2.Client side suffers unusual delay for weapon holster animation to start even the game is not lagging at all:
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/425122-i-have-been-thinking-why-is-weapon-swap-speed-so-slow/


3.Game client randomly minimized/black screen
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/443037-minimize-black-screen-during-mission/


4.Ash Prime Textures, Mesh & Animation Bugs
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/488216-ash-prime-textures-mesh-animation-bugs-collection-thread/


5.Excalibur's Javelin Stuns Enemy But No Damage
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/516336-excaliburs-javelin-stuns-enemy-but-no-damage/#entry5766169


6.The Ninkondi's first attack when used in quick melee does not register as a hit, dealing no damage.


7.PvP Update Affects PvE (such as Ash P has the worst bullet jump)
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/551032-pvp-update-affects-pve-ash-p-has-the-worst-bullet-jump/?p=6195448

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DE я рад что вы заботитесь об игроках ,чтобы игра приносила веселье путем фикса оружия и варфреймов.Все меньше однокнопочных фреймов,нужны новые тактики и стратегии,но есть ли в этом смысл?На смену одним билдам придут другие ,заменить оружее и фрейма это не проблема.Зачем заменять то что давно любо глазу ?Например предложу несколько идей.1- зачем добавлять новое,неактуальное когда много хорошего старого ,новое оружее и фреймов которые качаешь только ради ранга,при желании можно на 8 ранге развить максимальные моды и обзавестись нужными фреймами к примеру добавили арчвинг и пвп режим ,это мнение играков ,а не мое личное пвп так от нечего делать когда достанут миссии,арчвинг качают ради того чтобы поиграть на новом рейде ,добыть атласа и лимбо ,больше он не нужен.А вот однотипные карты с генерацией однотипных комнат достали ,знаешь каждый уголок.Так лучше бы локации новые вставили не так ли?2- прайм версии оружия и фреймов.Зачем добавлять новых и убирать старых,при желании можно проданатить и купить у игороков,ладно не об этом.Сам сталкивался с такой проблемой ,выбил прайм фрейма ,раскачал,но обычного еще не было ,фармил обычного и вкачивал обычного ради ранга(наверно не 1 я такой).Так вот почему бы не изменить чертежи ,предположем чтобы сделать прайм вольта ,тебе понадобится куча ресурсов,форма ,и оригинальный вольт 30лвл .Это дало бы большую удобность,поиграл обычным понравился сделал праймовского,и не надо убирать дроп старой прайм амуниции для получения новой .(Извиняюсь если много ошибок ,лень исправлять)

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It's that Saryn is just inefficient now. It's that Saryn has to pull off a combo of ability-ability-melee attack-ability. That isn't skill, it's still just a mechanical, muscle-memory sequence. It's the exact same as pressing 4, only there are more steps involved, and there's a less rewarding result. It's actually bad. Her combo has obstructions in allies killing enemies, which they should be always doing anyway. It needs enemies to stay alive long enough for her to kill them or her abilities are useless. It's that she needs to be in the forefront, in melee, after an EHP reduction and with her still being a slow frame. It's that she needs to constantly spam abilities now, but doesn't have the energy to pull off all these 50-cost abilities.

 

I get it's fun to pretend to be superior to people on the internet, but like, honestly, Warframe was never a game that required a very high threshhold of skill. Excalibur? Activate exalted blade, click E. Occasionally use Radial Blind or Javelin. Equinox? Press 4. Shoot a few guys. Press 4. Everything dies. Ember? Press 4. Occasionally press 2. Valkyr? Press 4 and proceed to press E. Mirage? Press 1 and 3 and then hold down the mouse button. Everything is just a few button presses. 

 

Warframe isn't, never was, and isn't becoming, a mechanically complex game. This is not a fighting game where really good players pull off amazing combos new players can't. This isn't Devil May Cry where you're rewarded for "complex" play. This isn't about how we have to stop being lazy and git gud. Pressing four buttons instead of one doesn't require any more skill. Saryn's new form doesn't require more skill. It just requires more button presses, for less effectiveness.

 

No one is impressed.

Edited by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

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Nice... I'm still wondering why they're just selling their work for a limited time. That's just a shame... And nice thread At least people won't miss it this time. Would have been nice if Valkyr had the same thing...

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Still no fix for:

1.Extremely Abnormal Skill Damage (And Messed Up Body Part Multiplier)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/516293-extremely-abnormal-skill-damage-and-messed-up-body-part-multiplier/

2.Client side suffers unusual delay for weapon holster animation to start even the game is not lagging at all:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/425122-i-have-been-thinking-why-is-weapon-swap-speed-so-slow/

3.Game client randomly minimized/black screen

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/443037-minimize-black-screen-during-mission/

4.Ash Prime Textures, Mesh & Animation Bugs

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/488216-ash-prime-textures-mesh-animation-bugs-collection-thread/

5.Excalibur's Javelin Stuns Enemy But No Damage

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/516336-excaliburs-javelin-stuns-enemy-but-no-damage/#entry5766169

6.The Ninkondi's first attack when used in quick melee does not register as a hit, dealing no damage.

7.PvP Update Affects PvE (such as Ash P has the worst bullet jump)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/551032-pvp-update-affects-pve-ash-p-has-the-worst-bullet-jump/?p=6195448

 

Do you really think DE has a "FIX ALL ZE PROBLEMSU" button?

Be patient man.

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