Update 17.10.0

[Vistha-Kai]

So you pulled a Riot Games move?

 

Nerfed something badly and compensated with a skin?

 

I didn't expect you will fall that low.

[Weltraumfred]

God no.

Why not?

[HalfDarkShadow]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

 

This is pretty much applicable to everyone who thinks that saryn 'takes more skill' because of a miasma nerf.

Ahh the dunning–kruger effect. I almost forgot about this haha. Didn't think of it like that (well, I tend to try things out first for a day or so and let it sink in before jumping to any conclusions, but I digress lol).

 

Interesting to apply this here to say the least.

[-...S.A.M.U.R.A.I...-]

please bring Saryn

back

[Rankii]

Why not?

Because it's lazy, and saryn doesn't need to be yet another melee-focused frame. There's Valkyr, excal, the monkey frame and "excal with a bow" already. It's bad enough that they nerfed her, let's not have her become a "press 4+e to win" frame.

[Weltraumfred]

I don't see you point.

 

With all of this comboing now being necessary, having one of the combo-able powers on toggle would actually be a major QoL improvement.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Weltraumfred

[Warrior-Ninja]

Good work !!!

[Rankii]

I don't see you point.

 

With all of this comboing now being necessary, having one of the combo-able powers on toggle would actually be a major QoL improvement.

You already have to mod for duration and power, trying to squeeze efficiency in there would put her in the same place ember was before the rework.

AKA a bad one and (even more) unusable. Remember that this nerfrework was basically to mess up negative duration builds.

[Weltraumfred]

You already have to mod for duration and power, trying to squeeze efficiency in there would put her in the same place ember was before the rework.

AKA a bad one and (even more) unusable. Remember that this nerfrework was basically to mess up negative duration builds.

If you have good duration mods, you don't need to squeeze efficiency in. I maintain that it would actually make it a lot easier to trigger her combos.

[ShadesofWhites]

Thank you DE!

 

Saryn looks awesome and her skills too.

 

Stop the crying, and start using your brain to play instead.

 

Cheers!

He says, never fighting enemies above levels 40 and 50.

Because if you were using your brain, you'd know nerfing her defense, wasting SECONDS to use abilties against enemies that can likely one hit kill you, and doing less damage than the guy that has an infinite Ammunition Pool Vaykor Hek/Tigris vs your 100 Energy Combo for 1/10th the damage, you'd know you're an idiot, and YOU need to use YOUR brain.

 

I've never had, or used Saryn. I was planning on getting her this week, and fully building her. Now that this has happened, there is no way to efficiently CC enemies while having to use three abilities in sequence, enough energy to do it enough for actual end-game enemies, or enough defense to survive more than two bullets of those said enemies.

Of which, you have to have MASSIVE power strength that doesn't help Saryn anymore to get the 90% reduction while blocking.

Except if you're blocking, YOU AREN'T ATTACKING. You AREN'T using your three combo skills. You AREN'T using a gun that already does 10x the damage in 1/10th the speed, on a different Frame that is already MORE defensive, offensive, and utilitarian.

See the problem here???

Edited November 5, 2015 by ShadesofWhites

[Rankii]

If you have good duration mods, you don't need to squeeze efficiency in. I maintain that it would actually make it a lot easier to trigger her combos.

The current duration mods are narrow-minded, continuity, prime continuity (released all of once via void trader), and constitution. One spoils her range and has a low drop rate, requiring more modding, one is the basic one, one doesn't give enough duration to justify the cost, and one has only been released once via void trader as far as I know. For the average player, good duration isn't a possibility. On top of all that, an ability constantly sucking energy at around 3 per second would hinder things in the long run.

[Machnas]

Is transient fortitude still 100% benefit for saryn's miasma?  

 

English is not my native language, so i didn't exactly get the rework about the duration.

 

Thanks

[Rankii]

Is transient fortitude still 100% benefit for saryn's miasma?  

 

English is not my native language, so i didn't exactly get the rework about the duration.

 

Thanks

negative duration saryn is dead.

[Bobveela]

Is transient fortitude still 100% benefit for saryn's miasma?  

 

English is not my native language, so i didn't exactly get the rework about the duration.

 

Thanks

No, duration does affect Saryn's ulti damage now.  Lower duration = less damage ticks.

 

For all of these Saryn posts, I love the skin, I like the rework.  But I think Saryn should be that beefy frame who excels as mid range and not melee.  We already have Valkyr to fill the melee spot and Saryn just isn't beefy enough to be a front line fighter.

 

Edit: If her kit does stay the same can we get her third ability to be a channel? That would help significantly.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Bobveela

[RHuckebein]

negative duration saryn is dead.

 

Unmoddeed, Miasma deals 1400 damage over 3 seconds for 100 energy.  14 damage/energy and 467 damage/second.

With Transient Fortitude and one-from-the-top streamline, Miasma deals 543/tick and, if miasma works like every other tick power with partial ticks, follows it up with a tick of 366 for a total of 909 damage over less than a second.  If we assume you're using it by the second to account for the cast time, you're looking at 36.6 damage/energy and 909 damage/second.

 

If you're just planning to use your abilities, it's better to spread viral around (since status duration doesn't care about power duration in most cases) and then sit still spamming minimum duration miasma than it is to actually mod for duration.

 

If Miasma DOESN'T finish with a partial tick, it STILL gains DPS and damage per energy because the 543 starting tick on its own is 21.72 damage/energy and 543 damage/second.

 

Negative Duration hurts Toxic lash, which is garbage, and it hurts spore a bit since it has a lower base duration than venom (but guys it's totally an upgrade) but that doesn't matter if you're constantly spreading it.

 

This doesn't really change modding saryn at all, it just makes her worse.

[salubri]

dont want to offend anyone but it is me or people complaining about the changes most of the times quote/talk about solo/pure power play? i mean Miasma benefit from Viral/Toxin not just the ones generated from Spore/Toxic lash, you or you teamates(i know you can solo but for that there is a lot of other frames better suited for this) can always bring weapons with that kind of damage,

 

she went from DD(damage dealer) on low to mid games to DoT frame, arguably DPS,, i mean yeah warframe is a fast paced game, and people saying she would be death before she can cast all of her kit on "high level" missions(wich is something DE definetly need to work with), but arent people already using team CC for "high level" missions?

 

i mean they need to tweak some stuffs like Spore spreading less spores than Venom was with no "significant" increase on damage, or contagion forcing mele on people, the range on molt or her high need of energy but overall i think this is going on a good direction (looking at the future, with a posible enemy scaling rework when the "mandatory mods fix" hit in)

 

tough im ciertan that this is not going to end good, atm DE really like to just bandaid stufss instead of fix them look at the people asking for some changes for bullet jump/aim glide, instead of fix them they deided to add PvP mods to PvE to bandaid those things, or the "new archwing charge mod", or what about half the augments wich looks more like bandaids than proper augments,

[maraffa]

2 warframe killed in 2 update first mesa now saryn...

A really wonderful work...i hate you

[notHunky]

Why is Saryn's new skin a limited release? After all the hype for the new Warframe skins, there shouldn't be any reason to not make it a perminant addition to the market. Limiting the availability of the new warframe skins just comes across as a cheap and aggressive sales tactic to me.

 

Also will the new "Spore" ability explode and release more spores upon enemy death? One of my biggest gripes was that most enemies died before you could pop the old "venom" spores and spread out the damage to groups of enemies.

 

Edit: WOW that was fast. Thanks DE!

Edited November 5, 2015 by notHunky

[TrinityPrime]

Also will the new "Spore" ability explode and release more spores upon enemy death? One of my biggest gripes was that most enemies died before you could pop the old "venom" spores and spread out the damage to groups of enemies.

 

I hear Spore is going to be changed to do just that: spores explode when enemy affected by spores dies (reduced infection range).

 

Should be next hotfix I think.

Edited November 5, 2015 by KnotOfMetal

[RHuckebein]

To point out the math from the last thing I posted (about transient fortitude/fleeting expertise on new saryn), it's always better to still have them.  If you want to swap anything out for more duration, you would swap out one of your other mods.

 

A typical miasma saryn, which, with pre-17.10 build saryn, would be basically the same build you would use in voids with venom since you'd constantly pop the orbs since they lasted about 4 seconds (I usually swapped intensify for primed continuity and ran a slightly lower-ranked vitality since I didn't want to forma saryn for the void, just for a little more venom leeway since I was using miasma more for the CC) where you weren't counting on always having a trinity or popping restore plates, would basically look like:

Aura of Choice
Rage
Vitality
Stretch
Regenerative Molt
Transient Fortitude
Fleeting Expertise (one from top)
Streamline (one from top)
Intensify (Optional: Blind Rage and top off the fleeting expertise and streamline, but that's completely nonviable with the new saryn since you can't really afford the loss in efficiency).

 

Fun fact: this fits on a no-forma saryn perfectly as well.

 

The DPS with this build with new saryn, on miasma and before viral/toxic procs, is ~1400 (1084 per cast, but each cast is less than a second - if the cast time is a full second it's 1084 DPS).  which is pretty bad DPS but there you have it.  44 Damage per energy, and you have to sit still spamming it to keep the miasma counter ticking since it's slightly less than a second of tick time.

You get a lot more DPE swapping in primed continuity, but ALWAYS at the expense of DPS.

 

Stretch is absolutely necessary for spreading Spores, And Vitality/Rage/Regenerative molt are all absolutely necessary if you want to not die horribly.  So your options for swapping in primed continuity are:
 

Swapping it for Transient Fortitude:  No forma or anything required for this, increases your damage/cast to 1888 and improves your DPE significantly to 75, but in exchange you're dumping your DPS down to about 629.  You can increase your DPS by spam-casting as well (for the free kick-in tick) but that drastically cuts into your DPE (you only gain 455 total damage if you recast it after one second to refresh the timer, increasing your DPS for the duration to about 700 and decreasing your damage per energy to 54)

 

If you don't have primed continuity, you're only getting ~62 DPE and about as much DPS (amusingly, assuming you're recasting as soon as the timer is up you're doing MORE DPS since you refresh it more, but it's less energy efficient).

 

Much more attractive: Replace Intensify.  This requires a forma (or a lower-ranked vitality, which is very not ideal with the HP decrease), but it keeps you over 72 DPE and keeps your DPS up over 800.  You don't need a forma if you don't have primed continuity, but you're dropping to 56 DPE in that case.

Replacing Streamline tanks your DPE down below the full negative duration level and doesn't give you any more DPS.  Don't do it, it's bad.

Replacing Fleeting Expertise is even worse, don't do it.

 

So really, assuming you were running a 'safe' venom build pre-17.10, there is no change to the build or playstyle here.  Assuming you were running a soloing duration-tanking build and didn't want to max out fleeting expertise to tank the duration as low as possible the only change to make is swapping intensify for continuity (assuming you don't want to sit in place and cast Miasma twice for slightly lower miasma energy efficiency).  Nothing really changed here, just that the results are weaker.  You still want transient fortitude and fleeting expertise on saryn.

[OkamiMilo]

DE Disturbed FAN

 

Saryn Re-Work. Hell YEAH

[7Chuck7pumpkin7]

DE Disturbed FAN

 

Saryn Re-Work. Hell YEAH

Oh, I'am. But i'm not here to write only what their ego want to see... are other opinions lesser important than your?

Edited November 5, 2015 by 7Chuck7pumpkin7

[DegeneReaper]

tl;dr for all the of Saryn "rework" anger and discussion:

 

She does less damage - yes, less damage - for more work or simply using different abilities.

 

The simple fix to this problem is just a damage buff honestly. She should do at LEAST the same damage as Miasma did before with a synergy of her skills. (Spore + Molt + Miasma) or more. Ideally, the community would want more of course, but just keeping the damage we had pre-"rework" would be just fine in my opinion...

[Kevalex1503]

zHere some scheme too copy guys , Enjoy! :

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