Molt's Hitpoints Affect Miasma's Damage (Math And Feedback)

[PsycloneM]

If anyone is curious about how Molt interacts with Miasma, from observation Miasma's damage is multiplied by a value that depends on how many hitpoints (shields + health) Molt has lost at the time of detonation. That is to say, you cast Molt, and it receives damage from surrounding enemies. If you cast Miasma next to Molt, Molt will explode prior to Miasma's first instance of damage, and the percentage of lost hitpoints at the time it explodes is converted into a damage multiplier that depends on power strength.

 

Here are some observations.

 

130% Power Strength

 

With just a maxed Intensify equipped, I have observed Miasma's damage per second (after status effect damage bonuses, power strength, and damage modifiers have been considered) being multiplied by quantities in the second column when Molt has lost a percentage of its total hitpoints as indicated in the first column. I took screenshots and measured the percentage of lost hitpoints using GIMP.

 

If I determine a best fit for this data, the relationship between the damage multiplier and lost hitpoints is linear (y = mx + b):

 

Damage Multiplier = 0.5 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1.

 

So for this amount of power strength, I will always have a damage multiplier from Molt less than 1.5. I wanted to see how power strength affects this multiplier, so here are some other observations with different setups:

 

40% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.93 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

100% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.56 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

185% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.53 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

212% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.9 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

284% Power Strength

Damage Multiplier = 0.84 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

As you can see, the relationship between the percentage of lost hitpoints and the damage multiplier is always linear. However, notice how 40% power strength has a higher upper limit on the damage multiplier than everything else. The relationship between power strength and the slope (m) from the damage multiplier expression is nonlinear.

 

 

X-axis is power strength (%) and y-axis is the slope. This is only a best fit and is most likely not the actual function being used. While the actual function may not be a 5th-degree polynomial, it does still appear to be nonlinear and does not appear to be one-to-one--different values of power strength can yield the same slope.

 

 

So what am I trying to say with all of this information? Basically, I'm curious if this specific relationship between power strength and the damage multiplier was intended. If it was, it's counterintuitve in my opinion. 40% power strength should not be yielding the highest damage multipliers while arguably the amount of power strength that most players use (between 100% and 200%) yield lower values. While the difference isn't game-breaking by any means, I don't see why players who don't use extreme amounts of power strength (positive and negative) should be producing damage multipliers smaller than expected.

 

A linear function could work here as it does with the relationship between Molt's percentage of lost hitpoints and the damage multiplier. For instance, the relationship between the slope and power strength could just be something simple such as the following expression:

 

m = constant x Power Strength.

 

So if I just have 130% power strength and use 0.5 as the constant:

 

m = 0.5 x 1.3 = 0.65

 

Damage Multiplier = 0.65 x ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1.

 

If necessary, there can be an upper and lower limit for the slope. That way, players who do run minimum power strength can still get a reasonable damage boost from this combo.

 

This type of relationship is simple, it's intuitive, and it doesn't minimize the damage output of this combo for players who are not expecting to be hindered by their choice of power strength.

 

 

Another alternative is to simply remove power strength dependence, and allow the multiplier to be equal to:

 

Damage Multiplier = ( Percentage of Molt's Lost Hitpoints ) + 1

 

With this expression, the damage multiplier will always be less than 2 regardless of power strength. A player running minimum power strength, maximum power strength, or anything in between will be able to achieve the same damage multiplier for the same percentage of lost hitpoints. I personally like this idea more than the previous as it puts no one at a disadvantage.

Edited November 8, 2015 by PsycloneM

[CelticMoss]

This won't be very helpful in high level games with how little hp and shield molt has unless you spawn it and right away use it.

Edited November 8, 2015 by SarahApple

[GhostLacuna]

Great test and results :)

 

Sadly Molt is way to fragile to ever be used in this manner unless DE tweaks its durability.

 

By the way have you tested the broken Explosion range?

 

it stay static at 10 meters no matter what range mods you have.

[RealPandemonium]

By the way have you tested the broken Explosion range?

 

it stay static at 10 meters no matter what range mods you have.

Post a bug report.  

[rawr1254]

Great test and results :)

 

Sadly Molt is way to fragile to ever be used in this manner unless DE tweaks its durability.

 

By the way have you tested the broken Explosion range?

 

it stay static at 10 meters no matter what range mods you have.

Its stuck at 10m ONLY unless you blow it up with miasma or the enemy kills it. When the enemy kills it or miasma blows it up the range is = w/e your range is at. If you recast it or the duration expires the explosion will be at 10m

Edited November 8, 2015 by rawr1254

[GhostLacuna]

True rawr1254 i dont use miasma so it never gets to use the proper range due to that fact.

 

also it lasts such a short time that i could not properly test its range when enemies kill it.

 

@realpandemonium, bug reports have been posted since the pvp patch broke it. It has resolved nothing.

[PsycloneM]

My concern right now is to make sure everything is working under the hood as intended. However, we can discuss the practicality of this combo until there's clarification.

 

As it is right now, Molt has nothing to bolster its defenses other than power strength to increase its health. If you make Molt too damage-resistant, it will take even longer to use Molt to spread viral procs (when used with Spores) and toxin procs for combo set ups (unless it's detonated manually, expending more energy). On the other hand, if its health falls at a more controlled level on higher difficulties (instead of being completely destroyed in one instance of damage) the combo presented here in this topic could have more successful usage.

 

Then you can argue, "Well, who cares about using Molt to spread viral and toxin? I have Spores + Toxic Lash for that (or Spores + high status toxin damage weapon)" which would be a valid point.

 

What Spores + Molt can do, Spores + Toxic Lash can also achieve. Even though Spores costs half the energy when used on Molt, spored enemies will restore 2 energy when killed with Toxic Lash. With Molt's base duration doubled in the latest hotfix, it seems that's the route DE is trying to take this ability: to increase Molt's effectiveness as a decoy (at least on lower difficulty). The doubled duration will do nothing for its durability, however.

 

 

So what say you all? Do you prefer Molt to be a more damage-resistant decoy that can last longer on higher difficulties and possibility utilize the combo described here to greater efficiency? If so, in what ways can Molt's resilience be improved to achieve this?

Edited November 9, 2015 by PsycloneM

[007-MusicalMind]

With this expression, the damage multiplier will always be less than 2 regardless of power strength. A player running minimum power strength, maximum power strength, or anything in between will be able to achieve the same damage multiplier for the same percentage of lost hitpoints. I personally like this idea more than the previous as it puts no one at a disadvantage.

 

thanks a lot for testing this tenno.

[RealPandemonium]

So what say you all? Do you prefer Molt to be a more damage-resistant decoy that can last longer on higher difficulties and possibility utilize the combo described here to greater efficiency? If so, in what ways can Molt's resilience be improved to achieve this?

IMO Molt should be durable enough to survive a few seconds (3-5) of concentrated fire from level 50ish enemies, and longer if you stack power strength.  Maybe give it a second or two of invincibility so that it doesn't die instantly later on, but that's all it needs.  It's already very effective for getting away from danger, which is the entire point of the ability.  

[PsycloneM]

thanks a lot for testing this tenno.

 

You're welcome.

 

 

IMO Molt should be durable enough to survive a few seconds (3-5) of concentrated fire from level 50ish enemies, and longer if you stack power strength.  Maybe give it a second or two of invincibility so that it doesn't die instantly later on, but that's all it needs.  It's already very effective for getting away from danger, which is the entire point of the ability.  

 

Are you suggesting pure invulnerability for 1-2 seconds, or are you thinking in terms of Snow Globe / Tectonics with damage converted into health during that invulnerability phase?

[rawr1254]

TBH How the mechanic of molts health = dmg bonus to Miasma do away with duration give it just health and show the % of health in hud instead of duration like before. This'll let us time using miasma a bit better. Regen Molt can still be a duration this way still being = w/e your duration is. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by rawr1254

[Buzkyl]

Are you suggesting pure invulnerability for 1-2 seconds, or are you thinking in terms of Snow Globe / Tectonics with damage converted into health during that invulnerability phase?

 

 

The former is more appropriate for molt.

 

Molt is meant to be destroyed vs Snowglobe and Tectonics which are meant to withstand assault a brief period of invincibility will allow saryn guaranteed escape and safety.

[RealPandemonium]

Are you suggesting pure invulnerability for 1-2 seconds, or are you thinking in terms of Snow Globe / Tectonics with damage converted into health during that invulnerability phase?

The former makes sense thematically but the latter makes more sense for increasing Miasma's damage.  This mechanic is wonky in general; i'm not sure where it fits, really.

[PsycloneM]

The former is more appropriate for molt.

 

Molt is meant to be destroyed vs Snowglobe and Tectonics which are meant to withstand assault a brief period of invincibility will allow saryn guaranteed escape and safety.

 

I definitely agree that the former is more appropriate.

 

However if Molt is meant to be destroyed, why does such a combo exist that depends on Molt's hitpoints? That's more of a question aimed at the developers and not you in particular. If Molt is meant to be frail, using the Molt + Miasma combo efficiently is going to be extremely difficult on high-level settings where that extra damage would be useful.

 

 

This won't be very helpful in high level games with how little hp and shield molt has unless you spawn it and right away use it.

 

This is a valid point. At higher difficulties, Molt dies within a second of casting. Giving Molt scaling durability using the Snow Globe / Tectonics mechanic would give the player a better opportunity to optimize Molt's damage multiplier as Molt's HP will fall gradually and not immediately.

 

The downside is that with too much durability, Molt will not be able to spread toxin (or viral procs with Spores) as quickly. So I do believe there should be a compromise. Molt should definitely not have the same kind of durability as Snow Globe or Tectonics--just enough durability to distract enemies for several seconds regardless of difficulty and give the player enough time to react to Molt's HP loss to utilize the Molt + Miasma combo.

 

 

This mechanic is wonky in general; i'm not sure where it fits, really.

 

I'm not sure either, but I do think it can see some use if all of these issues are resolved including the power strength vs. damage multiplier oddity on the first post.

[hukurokuju5]

give molt the nullifier bubble treatment