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Hotfix 17.10.2 + 17.10.3


DE_Adam
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No clue why everyone is so upset about the whole Saryn rework...

She's ALOT better in terms of damage and survivabilty, though still very crappy (it's an major upgrade atleast)

Also not many people seem to understand if you combine her powers her ult does more damage then the old Saryn would have ever done.

With every ''I WANT THE OLD SARYN BACK'' post on the forums my fear has become reality...

This whole community is turning into a 4 spamming boltor/soma prime using bunch, that nobody wants in their squads :(

Because those people can only do a survival mission for 5 minutes after that their damage just dissapears...

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No clue why everyone is so upset about the whole Saryn rework...

She's ALOT better in terms of damage and survivabilty, though still very crappy (it's an major upgrade atleast)

Also not many people seem to understand if you combine her powers her ult does more damage then the old Saryn would have ever done.

With every ''I WANT THE OLD SARYN BACK'' post on the forums my fear has become reality...

This whole community is turning into a 4 spamming boltor/soma prime using bunch, that nobody wants in their squads :(

Because those people can only do a survival mission for 5 minutes after that their damage just dissapears...

 

Yeah the changes did improve her mechanics, but the nerf of miasma allowed focus on her deeper problems and is a good thing as it allows actual fixes and progress to be made in making her better.

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One thing about the Toxic Lash energy regen thing.

 

Throwing Weapons like the Kestrel and Glaive don't get any effect on their actual throwing attacks, this is also true for the energy regen... Perhaps allowing Toxic Lash to affect the throwing attack will help out a bit?

 

... Also hi, yes, first post, sorry.

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Still no fix for...

 

Weird oval mesh appearing on Despair holsters:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/556846-despair-have-these-weird-textureless-oval-things-sticking-out-of-their-holster/#entry6275836

 

or breaking reinforced glass while a Liset Air Support charge is active, causing you to get stuck in the room

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/555576-please-fix-the-bug-with-reinforced-glass-and-the-liset-air-support/

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No clue why everyone is so upset about the whole Saryn rework...

She's ALOT better in terms of damage and survivabilty, though still very crappy (it's an major upgrade atleast)

How? Her health was decreased and she got a token increase to her armor. Molt is not destroyed with Miasma cast, prompting you to recast more frequently to heal her hp with Regenerative Molt. She's also now being coaxed into melee combat which she is still not suitable for. So please, explain how this is a major upgrade to her survivability. 

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Saryn Changes

 

  • Reduced the particle FX on Saryn’s Spore when spreading between enemies to address performance issues.
  • Doubled the duration of Saryn’s Molt.
  • Saryn’s Spores now cost half normal energy when cast on Molt.
  • Destroying an enemy affected by Saryn’s Spores with Toxic Lash will now restore 2 energy to Saryn.
  • Saryn’s Toxic Lash can now be recast to refresh its duration.

 

 

If you wanted to double the actual duration of molt you should have doubled its health.

Molt explosion is still only half the area of Miasma which makes it a bad setup for that skill.

 

Energy refund on toxic lash is great but only if you run spore -> toxic lash. It doesn't help at all if you're still trying to make molt -> spore -> miasma work.

 

Why isn't toxic lash just a toggle at this point? And what kind of damage boost in this game only provides a 30% boost to one type of weapon for one person? Sonar is 5x for every weapon for 4 people, Eclipse is 3x damage for every weapon for herself (4 with the augment), Roar is 50% for every weapon for 4 people, Accelerant is 2.5x for heat damage (which is common since corrosive/heat is meta) for 4 people, Molecular prime is double damage for every weapon for 4 people, Limbo has a 3x multiplier for every weapon for him, Loki and Ash have a 4x multiplier for melee while being invisible for themselves, and Volt and Valkyr have a 50% attack speed buff for melee for 4 people. The numbers on toxic lash are insultingly bad.

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If you wanted to double the actual duration of molt you should have doubled its health.

Molt explosion is still only half the area of Miasma which makes it a bad setup for that skill.

 

Energy refund on toxic lash is great but only if you run spore -> toxic lash. It doesn't help at all if you're still trying to make molt -> spore -> miasma work.

 

Why isn't toxic lash just a toggle at this point? And what kind of damage boost in this game only provides a 30% boost to one type of weapon for one person? Sonar is 5x for every weapon for 4 people, Eclipse is 3x damage for every weapon for herself (4 with the augment), Roar is 50% for every weapon for 4 people, Accelerant is 2.5x for heat damage (which is common since corrosive/heat is meta) for 4 people, Molecular prime is double damage for every weapon for 4 people, Limbo has a 3x multiplier for every weapon for him, Loki and Ash have a 4x multiplier for melee while being invisible for themselves, and Volt and Valkyr have a 50% attack speed buff for melee for 4 people. The numbers on toxic lash are insultingly bad.

 

You, sir, have a point.

 

One DE will never pay any mind to, unfortunately.

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If you wanted to double the actual duration of molt you should have doubled its health.

Molt explosion is still only half the area of Miasma which makes it a bad setup for that skill.

 

Energy refund on toxic lash is great but only if you run spore -> toxic lash. It doesn't help at all if you're still trying to make molt -> spore -> miasma work.

 

Why isn't toxic lash just a toggle at this point? And what kind of damage boost in this game only provides a 30% boost to one type of weapon for one person? Sonar is 5x for every weapon for 4 people, Eclipse is 3x damage for every weapon for herself (4 with the augment), Roar is 50% for every weapon for 4 people, Accelerant is 2.5x for heat damage (which is common since corrosive/heat is meta) for 4 people, Molecular prime is double damage for every weapon for 4 people, Limbo has a 3x multiplier for every weapon for him, Loki and Ash have a 4x multiplier for melee while being invisible for themselves, and Volt and Valkyr have a 50% attack speed buff for melee for 4 people. The numbers on toxic lash are insultingly bad.

finally someone who effing gets it.

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Double duration on Molt wasn't what was needed, it needs more health and more explosion range. It shouldn't just be fodder for Spores. (see anyone who provides reason and the word "Molt" in their post)

 

Toxic lash giving energy back is nice but, should be 2 energy per hit or spore popped, not per enemy kill. Unless this stacks with killing multiple enemies with the spore popped from the one enemy killed with Toxic lash, that 2 energy isn't going to do anything for energy preservation.

 

 

Why isn't toxic lash just a toggle at this point? And what kind of damage boost in this game only provides a 30% boost to one type of weapon for one person? Sonar is 5x for every weapon for 4 people, Eclipse is 3x damage for every weapon for herself (4 with the augment), Roar is 50% for every weapon for 4 people, Accelerant is 2.5x for heat damage (which is common since corrosive/heat is meta) for 4 people, Molecular prime is double damage for every weapon for 4 people, Limbo has a 3x multiplier for every weapon for him, Loki and Ash have a 4x multiplier for melee while being invisible for themselves, and Volt and Valkyr have a 50% attack speed buff for melee for 4 people. The numbers on toxic lash are insultingly bad.

Quoted for truth

Edited by TGKazein
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Make Saryn poisonproof. It's so weird when toxic/poison frame dies from poison. It's like drowning Hydroid in a puddle. Also please make Toxic Lash a toggle skill. There literally are no point casting it everytime if we go melee. And finally make regenetative molt a Molt passive. Because it's not fair that there is a mod that we MUST use to survive, considering that we are full melee now

Edited by Koler.
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I'm just wondering, why make Saryn a caster and keep her starting energy at miserable 50? I'm pretty sure she has the least starting energy of all the "casting" frames.

What are you talking about? She starts at 150 and goes to 225, just like Chroma, just like Nova, just like Nyx, just like Loki. . . 

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Why? It never lives long enough to last it's whole duration as it is, at higher level it gets destroyed instantly. Completely pointless change no one was asking for, it's like you don't listen to the community at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Alright, this is a clear indication that you want Saryn to be used as a Melee Frame since there's no other way to sustain your Energy without utilizing this change, in this case bring Health back up to 150 (or more) and give her some Survivabiity. She has no CC/Status/Damage Reduction when in Melee, for christ's sake she's a poison Frame and she gets obliterated by Poison Ancients...how is she supposed to be a successful Melee Frame if enemies with Auras kill her instantly?

AYE....feelin it

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What are you talking about? She starts at 150 and goes to 225, just like Chroma, just like Nova, just like Nyx, just like Loki. . . 

Chroma is either built for Effigy, or for Duration and power. For the former you have efficiency built, and for the latter it's duration. You aren't really going to be chugging energy like WiltedSaryn does. Nova's skills, except amd, all have duration or "charges" and you won't normally be spamming them as much. Maybe a few MP, but nothing signifigantly often. Nyx is, again, usually built with power/eff or duration. Either the drain from absorb is modded to be managable, or chaos modded so that it lasts long enough (though for the longest time shorter chaos was better so that you weren't stuck hunting down that one last unit that was under its effects in order to recast it). And none of them have abilities that the player is forced into comboing to get any sort of result. Yes, Chroma's Armor and Aura are nice together, yes AMD and MP are good together, yes Chaos and Absorb are good together, but none of those skills rely so heavily on each other that they need to be cast in sets...well if you're Ice Chroma you probably are casting your armor and aura together, but you don't NEED to.

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Why isn't toxic lash just a toggle at this point? And what kind of damage boost in this game only provides a 30% boost to one type of weapon for one person? Sonar is 5x for every weapon for 4 people, Eclipse is 3x damage for every weapon for herself (4 with the augment), Roar is 50% for every weapon for 4 people, Accelerant is 2.5x for heat damage (which is common since corrosive/heat is meta) for 4 people, Molecular prime is double damage for every weapon for 4 people, Limbo has a 3x multiplier for every weapon for him, Loki and Ash have a 4x multiplier for melee while being invisible for themselves, and Volt and Valkyr have a 50% attack speed buff for melee for 4 people. The numbers on toxic lash are insultingly bad.

First of all, Toxic Lash is more efficient as a duration-based power.  If the cost was 25 + 1/sec (and it probably wouldn't even be that low) the cost would still be 55 for 30 seconds, whereas now you pay 50 for 30 seconds at base duration.  Toggles also disable regeneration from Energy Siphon and EV, on top of wasting energy orbs.  

 

Toxic Lash gives guaranteed Toxin procs on top of its 30% total weapon damage bonus.  This allows you to stack up a huge DoT, which will increase your melee output much more than just 30%.  Given how you can spread that DoT via Spores, I think it's pretty strong.

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Chroma is either built for Effigy, or for Duration and power. For the former you have efficiency built, and for the latter it's duration. You aren't really going to be chugging energy like WiltedSaryn does. Nova's skills, except amd, all have duration or "charges" and you won't normally be spamming them as much. Maybe a few MP, but nothing signifigantly often. Nyx is, again, usually built with power/eff or duration. Either the drain from absorb is modded to be managable, or chaos modded so that it lasts long enough (though for the longest time shorter chaos was better so that you weren't stuck hunting down that one last unit that was under its effects in order to recast it). And none of them have abilities that the player is forced into comboing to get any sort of result. Yes, Chroma's Armor and Aura are nice together, yes AMD and MP are good together, yes Chaos and Absorb are good together, but none of those skills rely so heavily on each other that they need to be cast in sets...well if you're Ice Chroma you probably are casting your armor and aura together, but you don't NEED to.

Which more just shows that Warframes can work well without forced dependency (which Saryn has, far more than any "syngery"), rather than giving her more energy. The deeper root is the clunkiness of her kit in actual practice, not her stats. 

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