Ember Prime Nerf Please. Specifically, World On Fire.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

Well that was how the Mesa nerf started and look what happened. DE listened nerf her to the ground and now everyones up in arms complaining she's horrible now. Which tbh she is. I haven't once gone into a game with someone asking for a Mesa since her nerf. I mean even with Mags GP being nerfed she can still be helpful when doing Triton or any other Corpus mission. But Mesas just...done.

I've seen plenty of people asking for mesa, he'll I was in a game earlier with people who asked for a mesa and we got one

[NKDG]

Going to leave the quote i said in another thread here

I'll reply to the quote you left with the one I did in that same thread:

Problem is I don't like damage for ember. You could make WoF do no damage whatsoever, and I wouldn't give a S#&$. I run overextended and two of the three augments(panic and quake). Her damage will never scale, due to her being fire based, so why put her in a group she doesn't belong in?

[akira_him]

don't nerf the frame

nerf the need of farming

then no one will factory farm

inb4 not gonna happen

[Creamed]

Going to leave the quote i said in another thread here

I would also love to add and in my opinion, ember is now functionally better than peacemaker now and past ... given ember can move granting her the ability to dodge / pickup energy / use other skills / & WoF targetting behind walls. Whereas mesa needed the cooperation of her teammates to make it function.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Creamed

[NKDG]

Nothing is in a good place in public opinion until circumstances change to shed light on it. Saryn's Miasma bug was around for around 2 years before abusing it became a fan favorite, and before that point there was almost nothing but reports of "Saryn is useless and needs a buff." Nothing changed on the frame; the meta only changed because someone read the wiki, drew a conclusion, and posted it on Reddit.

So efficiency turned a **** ability to god tier? I'm sorry, I don't think Reddit is really the source of all the problems ingame. I've managed to avoid it and come to similar conclusions as what you say reddit came up with(with the exception of "miasma spam is fun") if it's really affecting you, just figure everything out on your own. Why are you on this forum if you don't want to know what people see as meta? You'll find that out after any time spent on these forums.

[Buzkyl]

I'll reply to the quote you left with the one I did in that same thread:

 

Then allow me to respond.

 

 

Ember is a damage frame first, only after hearing the several cries of the base DE gave her CC aspects such as knockback  and fire procs.  Accelerant boost the damage of all her skills, it's clearly obvious she's a damage centered frame. I'm not saying don't use her as CC, i'm glad you can find some use in her for other area, however her main role which is DPS is sorely lacking, partly due to Armour scaling.

 

 

 

I would also love to add and in my opinion, ember is now functionally better than peacemaker now and past ... given ember can move granting her the ability to dodge / pickup energy / use other skills / & WoF targetting behind walls. Whereas mesa needed the cooperation of her teammates to make it function.

 

Peacemaker main downside is it's vast energy consumption imo, not moving would be a downside but she is very much capable of defending with 2 and 3 when in peacemaker/ It takes inspiration of Western Showdowns. While i'm glad it takes more though it still neeeds more work as you're not being rewarded for good aim on a gunslinger frame.

[NKDG]

I would also love to add and in my opinion, ember is now functionally better than peacemaker now and past ... given ember can move granting her the ability to dodge / pickup energy / use other skills / & WoF targetting behind walls. Whereas mesa needed the cooperation of her teammates to make it function.

As well as the fact it needs accelerant to do any major damage(as far as I've been told) Edited November 22, 2015 by NKDG

[Creamed]

As well as the fact it needs accelerant to do any major damage(as far as I've been told)

It's not that hard to use w/ her skills

[NKDG]

Then allow me to respond.

Ember is a damage frame first, only after hearing the several cries of the base DE gave her CC aspects such as knockback and fire procs. Accelerant boost the damage of all her skills, it's clearly obvious she's a damage centered frame. I'm not saying don't use her as CC, i'm glad you can find some use in her for other area, however her main role which is DPS is sorely lacking, partly due to Armour scaling .

Fine... Time to self quote again. Thanks for making me seem like narcissist.

Her abilities are not even close to damage scalable! The only reason her ult is useful is for the knockdown from firequake! How is that damage centered? How is the eximus blast that's fire blast damage centered? It does almost nothing without fire panic, the ring does negligible damage with the proc chance being the only good factor. Her fireball is a nice knockdown, but has crap scaling and is single target, and accelerant (probably the power you're thinking of) is a damage multiplier with a small stun with a small innate natural talent. Tell me how she's damage centered. I run @(*()$ max range and efficiency! A strength build is just not possible unless you wanna lose all your efficiency, which'll kill the time you have it up. She was buffed as a full cc frame, and her kit has no need for straight damage. What the F*** are you talking about damage centered?

[seniledark]

Well that was how the Mesa nerf started and look what happened. DE listened nerf her to the ground and now everyones up in arms complaining she's horrible now. Which tbh she is. I haven't once gone into a game with someone asking for a Mesa since her nerf. I mean even with Mags GP being nerfed she can still be helpful when doing Triton or any other Corpus mission. But Mesas just...done.

Yes yes, but there is a very simple, easy, way of not having to deal with it: leave the match. I did not like playing with mesa on a T(insert tier number) def not the fact of losing kills, but being bored as a frost player. What did I do? I left the match and found a new one. Did I care about complaining? NO, why, because it's a team that made mesa all powerful. Without a team, she would run out of energy and fall. Ember is now fine where she is and if a player does not like playing with a frame that is now somewhere good: LEAVE THE MATCH. It's not hard to just to press quit and find another match to run though. 

[rawr1254]

As well as the fact it needs accelerant to do any major damage(as far as I've been told)

Oh noes I have to use 1 more button for this other skill to be awesome so it must be a bad frame. Accelerant isn't hard to use and also buffs casting times of her skills. It also staggers enemies for even more CC. And it buffs heat damage by a lot.

 

 

Yes yes, but there is a very simple, easy, way of not having to deal with it: leave the match. I did not like playing with mesa on a T(insert tier number) def not the fact of losing kills, but being bored as a frost player. What did I do? I left the match and found a new one. Did I care about complaining? NO, why, because it's a team that made mesa all powerful. Without a team, she would run out of energy and fall. Ember is now fine where she is and if a player does not like playing with a frame that is now somewhere good: LEAVE THE MATCH. It's not hard to just to press quit and find another match to run though. 

 

Yes exactly that. People gotta quit complaining, deal with it, or just leave. A lot of the time the next game you join won't even have a Mesa.

Edited November 22, 2015 by rawr1254

[Creamed]

Peacemaker main downside is it's vast energy consumption imo, not moving would be a downside but she is very much capable of defending with 2 and 3 when in peacemaker/ It takes inspiration of Western Showdowns. While i'm glad it takes more though it still neeeds more work as you're not being rewarded for good aim on a gunslinger frame.

Agreed

 

Oh noes I have to use 1 more button for this other skill to be awesome so it must be a bad frame. Accelerant isn't hard to use and also buffs casting times of her skills. It also staggers enemies for even more CC. And it buffs heat damage by a lot.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but, it can also be recasted right?

Edited November 22, 2015 by Creamed

[rawr1254]

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, but, it can also be recasted right?

Yea you can spam the hell out of  if you want for constant stagger.

[NKDG]

Oh noes I have to use 1 more button for this other skill to be awesome so it must be a bad frame. Accelerant isn't hard to use and also buffs casting times of her skills. It also staggers enemies for even more CC. And it buffs heat damage by a lot.

I was citing it as a reason that she's not op, not as a reason she's bad. Also, isn't that an example of "synergy" that the devs seem to be craving? Edited November 22, 2015 by NKDG

[Buzkyl]

Fine... Time to self quote again. Thanks for making me seem like narcissist.

 

 

And let's address these points

 

 

1. We've already addressed that her damage scaling is poor. I've specifically mention what causes it to be so poor.I'm not repeating myself

2.Firequake is an augment and her ultimate was still useful for damage before that. Even without the augment it does heavy fire damage overtime including the heat procs which occur that also stuns enemies.

3.Yet again, you're using the augment to validate your points and not the base ability. The ring does no CC without the augment. The only CC is from the initial knockdown of the expanding wave+fire proc. The ring then exist to damage enemies who come into it.

4.Fireball not only has the same base damage as WoF but can also land headshots to further boost it's damage+ heat procs (which would scale off said damage)

5.You're asking asking how is she a damage frame when she has a skill which multiplies the damage of all her abilities. I don't even know how it can't be more obvious.

 

Nearly all of ember's CC comes from fire procs and augments. Yes she can be played as a CC frame but that does not take away that she is a damage centered frame first.

[rawr1254]

4.Fireball not only has the same base damage as WoF but can also land headshots to further boost it's damage+ heat procs (which would scale off said damage)

 

Ah. I was actually asked why we even have fireball as a skill today but all I could say is it was a more focused way to deal the damage than somewhat at random with WoF. Didnt know it could headshot enemies. And now I know and knowledge is power :3

[NKDG]

And let's address these points

1. We've already addressed that her damage scaling is poor. I've specifically mention what causes it to be so poor.I'm not repeating myself

2.Firequake is an augment and her ultimate was still useful for damage before that. Even without the augment it does heavy fire damage overtime including the heat procs which occur that also stuns enemies.

3.Yet again, you're using the augment to validate your points and not the base ability. The ring does no CC without the augment. The only CC is from the initial knockdown of the expanding wave+fire proc. The ring then exist to damage enemies who come into it.

4.Fireball not only has the same base damage as WoF but can also land headshots to further boost it's damage+ heat procs (which would scale off said damage)

5.You're asking asking how is she a damage frame when she has a skill which multiplies the damage of all her abilities. I don't even know how it can't be more obvious.

Nearly all of ember's CC comes from fire procs and augments. Yes she can be played as a CC frame but that does not take away that she is a damage centered frame first.

1: Fire procs are the best kind of cc. The damage will never scale, and cc is innate in all her abilities, thus, she is a cc frame.

2: again, it already has an innate fire proc, so even disregarding the augment it's a pheasable cc

3: I've proced fire with the ring before without the augment. Also, the knockdown is another form of cc.

4: fireball also has a knockdown effect on each enemy it's cast upon. It can also be argued as a cc

5: this is also usable to multiply the damage of any weapons, and comes with a stun, so it's mixed signals at best.

I can do this too, matching your reasoning blow for blow with my own. There's no clarity to her being a pure damage frame as you suggest, there's always a form of innate cc in each move. Your argument is canceled out by mine, so keep trying.

[Buzkyl]

1: Fire procs are the best kind of cc. The damage will never scale, and cc is innate in all her abilities, thus, she is a cc frame.

2: again, it already has an innate fire proc, so even disregarding the augment it's a pheasable cc

3: I've proced fire with the ring before without the augment. Also, the knockdown is another form of cc.

4: fireball also has a knockdown effect on each enemy it's cast upon. It can also be argued as a cc

5: this is also usable to multiply the damage of any weapons, and comes with a stun, so it's mixed signals at best.

I can do this too, matching your reasoning blow for blow with my own. There's no clarity to her being a pure damage frame as you suggest, there's always a form of innate cc in each move. Your argument is canceled out by mine, so keep trying.

 

Until Ember is revisited, you have no grounds to say her damage will never scale. Accelerant only boosts fire damage which all her skills use so unless you're running weaponry with only  one element accelerant is mainly used to boost her skills. And once again you blatantly ignore why i said it doesn't scale due to armour rating which not only harms her but every damage skill.. Damage skills were given CC components because their damage currently falls off quickly, using your logic nearly every damage centric frame would classify as a CC frame because they have a skill which has a form of CC. To use an analogy- I can play Volt as a melee frame however Volt is not a melee frame, he can be played as one.

 

I also never called  her a pure damage frame, you're twisting my words to suit your argument. I said she is a damage centered frame meaning she is meant to be dealing heavy damage to her enemies, as evident by accelerant increasing all the damage of her skills which also causes fire procs that tick based of the increased based damage for even greater total damage.

 

Not a damage frame? At max rank World on Fire (her main DPS skill) will deal 1.1k fire damage Per enemy. You then factor in the innate Heat proc which will tick 50% of that  1.1k in 7 ticks bringing the total to ~4.9k in 1 Hit of world on fire. This doesn't even factor in accelerant which  will boost said damage well over 10k heat damage.

 

I'm certain if she was a purely CC there would be no need for her to have that potential damage as her focus would be to CC enemies.I never said she can't be used for CC, i am saying that her damage aspect takes priority and her skills reflect that.

[tripletriple]

I can do this too, matching your reasoning blow for blow with my own. There's no clarity to her being a pure damage frame as you suggest, there's always a form of innate cc in each move. Your argument is canceled out by mine, so keep trying.

Ember is a damage frame. DE themselves have explicitly stated so when they removed her fire armor skill she had a while ago. Probably not a good idea to claim your argument is anything if you are wrong. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by tripletriple

[Eminem2420]

You know, you could try and give a better reason to nerf her, but all I hear is: "I'm not getting enough kills because ember players, please nerf."

So, no.

[NKDG]

Until Ember is revisited, you have no grounds to say her damage will never scale. Accelerant only boosts fire damage which all her skills use so unless you're running weaponry with only one element accelerant is mainly used to boost her skills. And once again you blatantly ignore why i said it doesn't scale due to armour rating which not only harms her but every damage skill.. Damage skills were given CC components because their damage currently falls off quickly, using your logic nearly every damage centric frame would classify as a CC frame because they have a skill which has a form of CC. To use an analogy- I can play Volt as a melee frame however Volt is not a melee frame, he can be played as one.

I also never called her a pure damage frame, you're twisting my words to suit your argument. I said she is a damage centered frame meaning she is meant to be dealing heavy damage to her enemies, as evident by accelerant increasing all the damage of her skills which also causes fire procs that tick based of the increased based damage for even greater total damage.

Not a damage frame? At max rank World on Fire (her main DPS skill) will deal 1.1k fire damage Per enemy. You then factor in the innate Heat proc which will tick 50% of that 1.1k in 7 ticks bringing the total to ~4.9k in 1 Hit of world on fire. This doesn't even factor in accelerant which will boost said damage well over 10k heat damage.

I'm certain if she was a purely CC there would be no need for her to have that potential damage as her focus would be to CC enemies.I never said she can't be used for CC, i am saying that her damage aspect takes priority and her skills reflect that.

**** I thought for sure you said she was a direct damage frame somewhere, but I can't find it, so you got me there. Ember can be considered a cc frame as well because all her moves have some form of it. For your volt example, only one of his moves has any form of cc(his shock) his speed has no form of cc, his shield has no form of cc, and overload is a piece of crap that doesn't qualify as anything(I really hate playing volt, why'd you have to use volt as the analogy?). Thus, he can't be considered a cc frame, and the same goes with many other frames (ash, zephyr, atlas, and rhino to name a few), so your accusation is not exactly true. Edited November 22, 2015 by NKDG

[NKDG]

Ember is a damage frame. DE themselves have explicitly stated so when they removed her fire armor skill she had a while ago. Probably not a good idea to claim your argument is anything if you are wrong.

They also said primes would never have stat changes over normal frames. DE lies sometimes, so the only way to see it is by looking at her use ingame. I'm sticking to my guns when I say that there's no clarity to her role as a damage or as a cc frame.

[rawr1254]

They also said primes would never have stat changes over normal frames. DE lies sometimes, so the only way to see it is by looking at her use ingame. I'm sticking to my guns when I say that there's no clarity to her role as a damage or as a cc frame.

No skill by itself it meant to carry you through the entire mission. If it were true there'd be no reason to have guns and instead call this game World of Tennocraft.

Edited November 22, 2015 by rawr1254

[DarkRuler2500]

 

Seriously?
Ember's efficiency quickly decreases in random matches.

If u are gonig on Jupiter or Phobos, of course a well modded Ember onehits enemies.

Try doing 60 minutes Ceres Survival and u won't complain about Ember anymore.

 

Goddammit, why can't those people stop ruining other player's fun?

[RealPandemonium]

No skill by itself it meant to carry you through the entire mission. If it were true there'd be no reason to have guns and instead call this game World of Tennocraft.

The view that weapons are perfunctory and that powers are supposed to explicitly carry you through content (like in an MMORPG) has kind of blown up the feedback cycle in this game.  DE should have regulated corrupted mods closely after release but people didn't start really abusing them until a year later, so I guess it went under DE's radar for too long and ended up on the backburner of forever.  Gun and swordplay struggle to exist legitimately in a game where, now, their only purpose is to help kill level XXX enemies that have been rendered helpless by powerspam.  

Edited November 22, 2015 by RealPandemonium