Ash, The Conglomerated Rework.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I dedicate this specifically to My homie 

Dragonblack175

Yes. I very much dig this this character and his ability set and his similarities to Ash are great...

 

But, please don't derail the thread, Koges.

Edited November 21, 2015 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Pride]

I feel like a Black Republican!

 

My dawg I see ya at it again showin Ash some love keep it up G +1 from Koga :)

this guy realizes he does not have to quote the whole OP to be part of the discussion around the OP right?

[Magnulast]

Hmmm, I noticed that there were a ton of mechanics for ash's powers. This rework  (if entirely incorporated to the idea,) could take a while.

 

I largely mention that energy cost are not indicated at all and it kinda makes it hard to notice if it's op or not. Shadow dash strike should be triggered when ash is using his melee and channeling, and the activates the ability.

Having 6 abilities is kinda unfair but it does allow for customizable use.

-shuriken (1.5x)

-smoke bomb(1.5x)

-smoke dash?

-smoke dash strike? 

-Bladestorm.

 

Although Idk how much energy should be required for the ability.

 

This rework seems very well made, however, smoke bomb seems like it could be abused but, I could be wrong, anyway, the rest makes ash catch em' all. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Magnulast

[LightNBright]

This needs to be thing love the idea i made a thread on an ash rework also but this one i like : ) BUT DE we need shinobi esc premium skin for ash along with some of these changes and aback nikana PLEASE PLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEE DE

 

One thing i disagree with is the chaneling thing dont like it but thats just my oppinion and the smoke bomb shoudnt make allies invisable without an augment but the clouds should be left behind and decrease enemy accuracy when in it as a small team buff.

 

Other than that i think you did a very good job. hoping DE put that teleport rework in the game cuz thats what i care about the most TBH.

Edited November 22, 2015 by TheBlackishBoy

[swizzybeatzjamz]

U guys sound like if DE deleted every frame and left ash as the only frame you would be okay lol.

[Tenedranox]

Hmmm, I noticed that there were a ton of mechanics for ash's powers. This rework  (if entirely incorporated to the idea,) could take a while.

 

I largely mention that energy cost are not indicated at all and it kinda makes it hard to notice if it's op or not. Shadow dash strike should be triggered when ash is using his melee and channeling, and the activates the ability.

Having 6 abilities is kinda unfair but it does allow for customizable use.

-shuriken (1.5x)

-smoke bomb(1.5x)

-smoke dash?

-smoke dash strike? 

-Bladestorm.

 

Although Idk how much energy should be required for the ability.

 

This rework seems very well made, however, smoke bomb seems like it could be abused but, I could be wrong, anyway, the rest makes ash catch em' all. 

As mentioned in smoke dash the energy cost is very low

there is a reason why we havent put numbers in this thread, because its all about the idea, balancing of damage, duration etc isnt smth troublesome and would only result into abusing of players that are saying "thats way too op", u know what i mean?

[Tenedranox]

This needs to be thing love the idea i made a thread on an ash rework also but this one i like : ) BUT DE we need shinobi esc premium skin for ash along with some of these changes and aback nikana PLEASE PLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEE DE

Yes that would be pretty cool, but i have an attempt at the shinobi style: http://imgur.com/a/RhQIy#0

 

 

One thing i disagree with is the chaneling thing dont like it but thats just my oppinion and the smoke bomb shoudnt make allies invisable without an augment but the clouds should be left behind and decrease enemy accuracy when in it as a small team buff.

Actually they arent invisable, but the smoke cloud creates an obstacle for the line of view, there is smth in between enemies cant look through (maybe the corpus combas/scrambus would be able to)

Edited November 22, 2015 by Dragonblack175

[Yazeth]

Will Smoke Dash Strike still be considered as a Finisher itself and trigger Covert Lethality? Atm, the Parry/Stealth Finishers are the only things that trigger it (also abilities that open up these Finishers). With this rework, it may not trigger the mod since it won't perform the Finisher animation, if I understood it?

[Tenedranox]

Will Smoke Dash Strike still be considered as a Finisher itself and trigger Covert Lethality? Atm, the Parry/Stealth Finishers are the only things that trigger it (also abilities that open up these Finishers). With this rework, it may not trigger the mod since it won't perform the Finisher animation, if I understood it?

Nope it wont be, with exception of the Example 3 finisher addition

Grievance idea is more combatbased, im fine with that and agreed with it for the rework, if u have a look at my original post u will see there its more mobility/CC based, but i think a combat based mechanic is more fitting for an improvement of the current skill.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Dragonblack175

[Yazeth]

Nope it wont be, with exception of the Example 3 finisher addition

Grievance idea is more combatbased, im fine with that and agreed with it for the rework, if u have a look at my original post u will see there its more mobility/CC based, but i think a combat based mechanic is more fitting for an improvement of the current skill.

That's disappointing for me, but I would still enjoy the rework if it ever happens.

[YasaiTsume]

The abilities are nice but the proposed names are so cringe.

 

Smoke Dash - se[ghewggqfihoqfgqugqugugggbqgioeqi;effjioig

Edited November 22, 2015 by YasaiTsume

[Tenedranox]

That's disappointing for me, but I would still enjoy the rework if it ever happens.

We are just trying to balance the rework, i hope u understand that

The abilities are nice but the proposed names are so cringe.

 

Smoke Dash - se[ghewggqfihoqfgqugqugugggbqgioeqi;effjioig

u mean what? is that critique or havent i got the joke?

[xLordKogax]

I see this thread getting attention.

 

What i was observing is that similarity my idea with Assassins Creed Smoke Bomb. Thats exactly what I want for Smoke Screen, as long as the Invisibility function is still added. If You play AC you know how Smoke bombs work and itrs my favorite tool for dispatching a horde in combat without having the actual trouble of fighting.

 

Why? All the enemies in the smoke screen are stunned and choking, If Ezio attacks them he performs a Finisher Kill if done in rapid succession You can dispatch of almost every enemy within the cloud. Can Smoke Screen get this?

 

I seriously want this you guys can do w.e with the rest of his Kit. I dont needmore duration on smoke screen just a choke cloud and maybe a slight range increase of 5 meters maybe. Id be soo happy with this even if DE destroys the crap outta Bladestorm atleast give us something to look forward to for Ash.

[Tenedranox]

I see this thread getting attention.

 

What i was observing is that similarity my idea with Assassins Creed Smoke Bomb. Thats exactly what I want for Smoke Screen, as long as the Invisibility function is still added. If You play AC you know how Smoke bombs work and itrs my favorite tool for dispatching a horde in combat without having the actual trouble of fighting.

 

Why? All the enemies in the smoke screen are stunned and choking, If Ezio attacks them he performs a Finisher Kill if done in rapid succession You can dispatch of almost every enemy within the cloud. Can Smoke Screen get this?

 

I seriously want this you guys can do w.e with the rest of his Kit. I dont needmore duration on smoke screen just a choke cloud and maybe a slight range increase of 5 meters maybe. Id be soo happy with this even if DE destroys the crap outta Bladestorm atleast give us something to look forward to for Ash.

Well still from my side: nope

u can truly overdo it, we want ash to be a good frame thats viable in team, not even more nuke

[Magnulast]

As mentioned in smoke dash the energy cost is very low

there is a reason why we havent put numbers in this thread, because its all about the idea, balancing of damage, duration etc isnt smth troublesome and would only result into abusing of players that are saying "thats way too op", u know what i mean?

True...but there is a ton of balancing to be done.

[xLordKogax]

Well still from my side: nope

u can truly overdo it, we want ash to be a good frame thats viable in team, not even more nuke

 

Wait, how is a Choke Cloud a Nuke? Its actually more CC and Team Oriented then anything. I would love for DE to implement all the good ideas for his entire kit but I dont have faith in them trying to please us one bit. I feel that Bladestorm will be destroyed soo I just want atleast one of his abilities to be strong and help him out in game

[Tenedranox]

True...but there is a ton of balancing to be done.

we appreciate ur feedback, hopefully most of the balancing would be numbertwisting

Wait, how is a Choke Cloud a Nuke? Its actually more CC and Team Oriented then anything. I would love for DE to implement all the good ideas for his entire kit but I dont have faith in them trying to please us one bit. I feel that Bladestorm will be destroyed soo I just want atleast one of his abilities to be strong and help him out in game

tried to explain it to you many times, to make it short: u cant put anything u like into the kit cause that would be way too op, got it?

[xLordKogax]

we appreciate ur feedback, hopefully most of the balancing would be numbertwisting

tried to explain it to you many times, to make it short: u cant put anything u like into the kit cause that would be way too op, got it?

 

o_0

 

Got what? Why cant I input My ideas? Is that really too OP? -__-

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Shadow dash strike should be triggered when ash is using his melee and channeling, and the activates the ability.

That is exactly how it works and how I wrote it. In order for Dash Strike/Shadow Strike/Smoke Strike to work, Ash needs to have his melee weapon equipped and be channeling. Once this is done, pressing the ability trigger will perform the Dash Strike. If this is not done, Ash will just regular Smoke Dash and use his primary and quick attacks.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

 ...the smoke bomb shoudnt make allies invisable without an augment but the clouds should be left behind and decrease enemy accuracy when in it as a small team buff.

The smoke bomb does not make Ash's allies invisible without the Smoke Shadow Augment, I clearly wrote that under the specs list.

 

Without the augment, allies can jump into or behind the lingering clouds and enemies will lose targeting on them and have to run in close to reacquire, but once inside the clouds, they choke on the smoke/become incapacitated (adds finisher damage) and get ambushed. With the augment, allies would gain stealth damage multiplier (from being invisible) on top of finisher damage (choking/incapacitated enemies) for even more devastation and be able to exit the clouds in safety (due to being invisible).

[Magnulast]

That is exactly how it works and how I wrote it. In order for Dash Strike/Shadow Strike/Smoke Strike to work, Ash needs to have his melee weapon equipped and be channeling. Once this is done, pressing the ability trigger will perform the Dash Strike. If this is not done, Ash will just regular Smoke Dash and use his primary and quick attacks.

It was in the paragraph.....well then.

[Necrius]

Not sure about the need of ability rework, but Ash totally needs drop rate overhaul. It's stupidly rare while being stupidly expensive on Market.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Will Smoke Dash Strike still be considered as a Finisher itself and trigger Covert Lethality? Atm, the Parry/Stealth Finishers are the only things that trigger it (also abilities that open up these Finishers). With this rework, it may not trigger the mod since it won't perform the Finisher animation, if I understood it?

That is a legit question, awesome!

 

In what I was thinking, yes. Dragon, no.

 

Dragonblack wanted to add in the assassination animation (the 3rd video) in the style of the Assassin's Creed game (Ash would tackle and stab the target with both wrist blades), while cool, I thought it would slow down the move too much and make Ash default to using his wrist blades rather than his equipped melee weapon (even though I love his wrist blades). I want the ability to be as fast as possible. So, again, yes. It would be classified as a Finisher move, just without the slow animation. As it stands now, Ash's teleport does trigger the Covert Lethality Mod and I have no plans to changed that.

 

So my thoughts were that the ability would do finisher damage innately (scaled off equipped melee weapon damage), but when combined with Smoke Screen, the stealth damage multiplier would be added on top, as well. I always hear people say that while good, Melee is still far from being a viable source of scaling damage, with the new CC from Smoke Screen (without augment) adding in finisher damage and then stealth damage on top of that (with augment), Ash empowers, not only himself, but his allies to new heights.

 

Of course, that is how I would like it, but DE has the final say on whether or not (even though it is supposed to be "Finisher Damage") Covert Lethality procs. 

 

I hope this helps to answer your question.

 

TLDR:

Dragonblack wants the animation added in order to classify the ability as a "FInisher."

I do not.

We put both options in to let you all choose what you like better.

Edited November 22, 2015 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

The abilities are nice but the proposed names are so cringe.

 

Smoke Dash - se[ghewggqfihoqfgqugqugugggbqgioeqi;effjioig

The names are probably the hardest part of these reworks :D

 

Since Ash is a smoke/assassin frame, we wanted to keep that theme with both the reworked abilities and their corresponding names.

 

Again these are just place holders and DE has the final say on all balancing, number crunching and of course, naming.

 

The ideas are what's most important.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I made some tweaks/changes to the text to correct a few things (always proofread, kids) and also make them clearer.