Trash In T3 Drop Tables (Bug?)

[viperveteran]

I was going to put this in the bug forum but I am not sure if this is a bug or if DE actually decided to alter the drop tables in t3 missions, more specifically defence and survival.

 

 

Recently I have been running T3D missions and for rotations AAB got nothing but gold cores and orokin cells. I don't have a problem with trash in the T2 tables etc since those keys are easy to come by, very little effort needed, but with T3 missions keys you usually have to go to specific places to farm them. It is very annoying after going through all of that effort to get keys to get stuff that I can get almost ANYWHERE else in the game, in high tier void missions.

 

 

When we go to the void we all go there for prime parts and use the parts we have to make sets/trade or get ducats. Having all that trash in the high tier void missions just makes the process less fun and more time consuming tbh. I would honestly prefer to get a crappy prime part on the T3 drop table than to get an orokin cell or r5 gold fusion core at least then I could trade it or sell it for ducats. If we want to farm orokin cells or r5 gold cores there are already well known places we can go to in order to get them, so I don't believe that it is necessary to put them in the void as table drops.

 

If a non prime part should be on the T3 drop table, if it is absolutely necessary, it should things that are exclusive to the void like x5 Argon Crystals. At the moment it is just starting to feel like a waste of time going in to the higher tier void with all the trash that has been put into the drop tables. If you don't have a lot of time to play warframe it degrades the experience. An example would be if I only had an hour and a half a day to play and I wanted to do 3 20 wave defences, prior to the changes in the drop tables I would leave with 12 prime parts now I only leave with 4-6 parts  and 6-8 trash drops that I can't trade for othe prime parts or ducats.

 

So DE if this is a bug please fix it, if it isn't a bug please review the decision to put these items in the high tier void drop tables.

 

Thank you

 

 

 

[AnnoyingBanana]

Since Prime vaults and "too much prime stuff" comes out they decided to mess up tables with useless cells, because they have nothing else to put there anymore.

 

I would rather like complete formas as it was time ago (usualy got them on t3 exterminate), than orokin cells that I already have 500+ and all weapons / warframes already crafted.

Edited November 23, 2015 by AnnoyingBanana

[-Appa-]

First off, I agree. BUT before we go onto what the void should or shouldn't drop, I would like to remind you, void 2.0 is around the corner, keep that in mind. SO everything stated, is how I would like the new star chart to address "Void" missions

 

Now while I disagree with R5 Fusion cores, I agree with Orokin cells, atm they are dropped, in so many places. Ceres, Saturn, Curropted Vor, Void Drop tables, and maybe a couple maybe. so tbh I would even prefer to see neurode's, because, they are rare, more in fact neural sensor's. because as of current the resource distribution in the star chart and void, is terrible. More along the fact, I hate to see why the existence of things like Fieldron sample or detonate injector samples, exist, the reason being , any Warframe player in the right mind, would just do 3 invasion mission, and wait (less time) to build one, which takes 24 hours. and in a whole believe these should be removed, but that's another topic.

 

Then again I argue the fact of, what makes prime parts worth it, if you're gonna get prime parts all day long, one baro would have to charge more, and secondly they wont feel as special when you get them, so kinda depreciating the value of prime parts.

 

Now what I think should happen:

 

-> Any endless mission void should NOT hold a chance for forma, R5's or resources, as those keys tend to be be 1 to 1 for prime parts which is FAIR as one NON-Endless key can give many parts, aka, making running different missions more possible, if you want to get ductas or prime stuff etc.

 

-> Any NON-Endless void mission:

1. Remove all Resources from Drop tables.

2. instead of having % chance of getting parts on waves aabc , have so that at the end of wave b and c, a guaranteed prime part, not dependent on rarity. aka B and C share the same pool of prime parts, but make c have a higher chance of obtaining rarer parts 

3. Forma Should stay, but only be in the aab rotations, making sure rotation c ALWAYS holds a prime part, so you are not pissed after receiving 4 forma bp's in a row. 

 

But like everyone else, they're entitled to there opinion :)

Edited November 23, 2015 by Nemesis-Infinity

[LeshJaeThiHah]

marketing thing.

@Nemesis-Infinity - is void 2.0 have anything to do with Prime Vault sales? There are tons of ways how to make drop tables better and more user friendly. but hey - they gotta sell their stuff right?

Edited November 23, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[Chroia]

marketing thing.

@Nemesis-Infinity - is void 2.0 have anything to do with Prime Vault sells? There are tons of ways how to make drop tables better and more user friendly. but hey - they gotta sell their stuff right?

^ That.

Working as intended, move along. Nothing to see here.

[-Appa-]

marketing thing.

@Nemesis-Infinity - is void 2.0 have anything to do with Prime Vault sells? There are tons of ways how to make drop tables better and more user friendly. but hey - they gotta sell their stuff right?

 

No void 2.0 is not to do with prime vault sales. that in mind, there is a difference in making the player frustrated/making the player feel rewarded because I'm sure, if you're like most tenno, when you get forma so often, when you dont need it, it more then less makes you feel a little, well annoyed. that in mind, with my suggestions, you can still have "rare" parts, which will keep DE gaining profits.

^ That.

Working as intended, move along. Nothing to see here.

Yes its working as intended, but at the end the day, you don't wanna feel cheesed off if you've been grinding for said part, and all you get is forma, the reward system needs a looking into .

 

Plus by writing "move along. Nothing to see here."  doesn't really help, nor further discuss the "problem" as it is 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Nemesis-Infinity

[LeshJaeThiHah]

i am most likely not like the most tenno because i am not playing warfame, however i play forumframe.

 

i think i have like... mr8 or something... anyway. - i don't grind.

 

and about void 2.0 - i really have this feeling, that this mechanic will work in a similar way as OD Vaults work. Like - you run a mission, you find a door, you use a key and behind it a portal similar to one we may see on sabotage mission.

So - i should run 2 mission in order to get single part of Prime item, IF i am lucky. And if i am not - i will have these orokin cells or cores. If i would need cores - i will play AW, if i would need ocells i will play Draco.

Maybe i am mistaken, and DE will make something user friendly. But it's hard to believe in such thing in the game that has nothing but grind.

 

So i would rather not use to-be-released mechanics as an argument. Because not you not i actually know how things will turn out.

 

What is more important - current drop table is polluted, that's a fact.

 

p.s. marketing.

Edited November 23, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[-Appa-]

i am most likely not like the most tenno because i am not playing warfame, however i play forumframe.

 

i think i have like... mr8 or something... anyway. - i don't grind.

 

and about void 2.0 - i really have this feeling, that this mechanic will work in a similar way as OD Vaults work. Like - you run a mission, you find a door, you use a key and behind it a portal similar to one we may see on sabotage mission.

So - should run 2 mission in order to get single part of Prime item, IF i am lucky. And if i am not - i will have these orokin cells or cores. If i would need cores - i will play AW, if i would need ocells i will play Draco.

Maybe i am mistaken, and DE will make something user friendly. But it's hard to believe in such thing in the game that has nothing but grind.

 

So i would rather not use to-be-released mechanics as an argument. Because not you not i actually know how thing will turn out.

 

What is more important - current drop table is polluted, that's a fact.

 

p.s. marketing.

I agree, but like I said the rework is just round the corner, I believe U18, which is Dec. 2 (Most likely as DE staff Have confirmed this date to be an EXPECTED Release date) so tbh removing trash now, seems kinda pointless, just for 1 to 2 weeks.

 

And Yes I agree Marketing, but there's other ways to market the grind, it doesn't have to be this bad. for example in a not so long ago, DE Rebecca Spoke the truth. and I agree with her. the grind atm is a tad much. but there has to be a point, of which grind is equal to the reward given period. 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Nemesis-Infinity

[LeshJaeThiHah]

... yeah well i don't believe in that. it is  a f2p product. i am pretty sure they have the data they need. and they pollute drop table on purpose.

 

should i remind you how much plat  people were asking for TP set or Kamas P set? yeah right. somebody will pay for this. in real money.

Edited November 23, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[-Appa-]

... yeah well i don't believe in that. it is  a f2p product. i am pretty sure they have the data they need. and they pollute drop table on purpose.

 

should i remind you how much plat  people were asking for TP set or Kamas P set? yeah right. somebody will pay for this. in real money.

Okay okay, look go to Devstream 61 and tune into 24:08 mins, this is what I'm getting at.

 "https://youtu.be/t2EAA26nKx4?list=PLDmrv5FhAWj8Sl367cyN53oPmEdE33bFf"

Ends at 27:22

 

Now that is what I go by, atm its narrow, its too long to get certain stuff. DE agrees, with thee current problem of the void.

 

*Drops Mic*

Edited November 23, 2015 by Nemesis-Infinity

[LeshJaeThiHah]

so what is your point? current drop tables are polluted.

 

The things DE are working on is still in near future, however this situation with grind and polluted drop table exists for like 2 years now. Since Mag P PA's 0.67% incident and Ember P PA.

 

Problem exists for quite some time, not for some few weeks or months. I agree that TS feedback is kinda irrelevant in coming changes (perhaps), but in current state of the game it is pretty much legit.

Edited November 23, 2015 by LeshJaeThiHah

[Tails-san]

The problem is mainly the lack of consideration for the time it takes to run the Void missions themselves. Your complaint is leveled towards Rotations A and B, which seem to be intentionally filled with trash drops, because the real reward is in Rotation C. Per key, the endless types are already the best reward, thanks to the rotations. But what seems to be ignored is the fact that to go with that, these missions take about 4 times as long as the others, and I'm being generous with that estimate by not factoring extreme rushing of Exterminate and Capture. Also ignored is the fact that the endless missions are overall harder than the single-run missions, especially if run longer than one rotation C.

 

Now, I'm not saying that these missions should be fully 4x as rewarding as the single-run missions if run to the first rotation C, but they certainly need to be more rewarding then they are now. Reward per key, Reward per Time, and Reward per Difficulty all need to be considered, and currently these tables only seem to be considering reward per key. This issue plagues both of these game types in their entirety though, and isn't really an issue specific to the void. In fact, the for the most part, the void has less of an issue with this.

[-Appa-]

so what is your point? current drop tables are polluted.

 

The things DE are working on is still in near future, however this situation with grind and polluted drop table exists for like 2 years now. Since Mag P PA's 0.67% incident and Ember P PA.

 

Problem exists for quite some time, not for some few weeks or months. I agree that TS feedback is kinda irrelevant in coming changes (perhaps), but in current state of the game it is pretty much legit.

 

1. Yes, but they'll be less diluted once star chart 3.0 comes round, or it wont feel as much of a grind.

 

2. Ummm no, there's a difference, as I have stated above, Grind has to equal reward, back when mag prime was out, the drop tables, were not as Diluted, but seeing as we have quiet a lot of primes in the void now, and hence the reason to prime vaulting (Which I believe is a band aid fix atm -  but may stay as it is) the prime tables are now what I would call OVER-Saturated. Grind is essential for F2P games tho. You just need to strike a balance.

 

3. Irrelevant? doesn't mean DE can read posts, and hence contribute idea/ changes based on peoples current feel on grind>reward. and yes its currently legit, but doesn't mean they'll change it before star chart 3.0.

 

P.s Can you explain the Mag Prime PA ).67% thing, neva heard of it. nor the Ember prime PA, unless you are discussing the Misa prime, which has no relevance here

 

The problem is mainly the lack of consideration for the time it takes to run the Void missions themselves. Your complaint is leveled towards Rotations A and B, which seem to be intentionally filled with trash drops, because the real reward is in Rotation C. Per key, the endless types are already the best reward, thanks to the rotations. But what seems to be ignored is the fact that to go with that, these missions take about 4 times as long as the others, and I'm being generous with that estimate by not factoring extreme rushing of Exterminate and Capture. Also ignored is the fact that the endless missions are overall harder than the single-run missions, especially if run longer than one rotation C.

 

Now, I'm not saying that these missions should be fully 4x as rewarding as the single-run missions if run to the first rotation C, but they certainly need to be more rewarding then they are now. Reward per key, Reward per Time, and Reward per Difficulty all need to be considered, and currently these tables only seem to be considering reward per key. This issue plagues both of these game types in their entirety though, and isn't really an issue specific to the void. In fact, the for the most part, the void has less of an issue with this.

I agree with you whole heartily, but atm it tend s to be void, that everyone focuses on, as that's where most of the player base is farming for ducats primes or maybe even for R5's 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Nemesis-Infinity

[Chroia]

Yes its working as intended, but at the end the day, you don't wanna feel cheesed off if you've been grinding for said part, and all you get is forma, the reward system needs a looking into.

If it's not Forma, it's something else.

Like my 58 Sicarus Barrels.

*shrug*

Plus by writing "move along. Nothing to see here." doesn't really help, nor further discuss the "problem" as it is

You're right, but 'discussing' won't help.

As I recall, it took 3 weeks of concerted complaining, back when Ash PA dropped, before the Forma BP %s were lowered.

Which had no effect on the rarity of the rare rewards.

It's probably something that DE are thinking about, among all the other things.

But unless you can offer something that is better than what we have now while still fulfilling DE's goals, I don't see that there's much to discuss.

-----

1. Yes, but they'll be less diluted once star chart 3.0 comes round, or it wont feel as much of a grind.

Citation needed.

[-Appa-]

If it's not Forma, it's something else.

Like my 58 Sicarus Barrels.

*shrug*

You're right, but 'discussing' won't help.

As I recall, it took 3 weeks of concerted complaining, back when Ash PA dropped, before the Forma BP %s were lowered.

Which had no effect on the rarity of the rare rewards.

It's probably something that DE are thinking about, among all the other things.

But unless you can offer something that is better than what we have now while still fulfilling DE's goals, I don't see that there's much to discuss.

-----

Citation needed.

I agree, but Discussing or generating solutions, that DE could see, and hence maybe incorporate into the star chart 3.0, if they thought it was a good Idea, or see what really "Annoys" the tenno.

 

And still 58 Sicarus barrel, are ducats, and even more worth more atm, as the Sicarus is currently vaulted. Or more than the original price. 

 

And like I stated above, go listen to Devstream 61, for just 3 mins and you'll have my point of view. and any "Citation needed."

 

I'd also like to remind you, that forums are a place to discuss or give feedback not to give one liners, that say move on, this is pointless. the forums are here for DE to browse, and look  at what the tenno suggest, and do what they want with it.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Nemesis-Infinity

[Chroia]

I agree, but Discussing or generating solutions, that DE could see, and hence maybe incorporate into the star chart 3.0, if they thought it was a good Idea, or see what really "Annoys" the tenno.

Works for me.

And still 58 Sicarus barrel, are ducats, and even more worth more atm, as the Sicarus is currently vaulted. Or more than the original price.

Wait, are we talking about 'trash' meaning common, not-rare-parts, or about 'trash' literally "this is worthless"?

And like I stated above, go listen to Devstream 61, for just 3 mins and you'll have my point of view. and any "Citation needed."

I did, and that specifically, intentionally doesn't address what you're talking about.

Rebecca asks Steve about A) Burnout from repetition and B) rare-part rarity.

Steve acknowledges B, (and pretty much says that that's just how rewards work,) and doesn't say anything beyond that.

Which means, depending on what you mean by 'trash', that you have your answer - and it won't be changing with Star Chart 3.0.

That said, and as you say, I'm not contributing here, so I'll just 'move along'.

Good luck.

[viperveteran]

Whilst the drop rates could be improved as well my main gripe was with the inclusion of R5 Cores and Orokin Cells in the Void drop tables, especially when entering higher tiers like T3. What makes this more gripe inducing (lol) is that you usually have to farm specifically for those T3 keys in the first place and when you get the key and go to the void you end up getting some stuff that you could have received anywhere else on the solar system without farming for the key in the first place, it makes the whole process basically pointless. If it was Argon X5 that was included I wouldn't have as much of a problem simply  because you can only get them in the void

 

Basically when I go to the void I am going there for prime parts, I think that drop rates of prime parts might be a closely related topic but somewhat different topic none-the-less. I have no problem with trash being in the T1 or T2 but it really takes the fun out of going into a T3 mission to get things as a reward that can be obtained in other places Triton/R5 Fusion Draco/Dark Sector Orokin Cells. Getting R5 Cores is even worse than getting say 58 sicarus barrels because at least those have value to the void trader (you can buy primed mods with it) but the void trader doesn't buy R5 Cores and Orokin Cells. I can live with forma's being on the drop table but they should only be restricted to the lower levels i.e. T1 or T2 only.

 

When I leave the T3 void currently I would have been in a better position for R5's and Orokin Cells if I had just gone to Triton/Draco or any other place where there is a plentiful supply and farmed there. So it seems like a waste of time when you have trash drops that are available everywhere else (planets) polluting the void drop tables.

 

TL:DR

I am asking for the two resource drops, R5 Cores and Orokin Cells, to be completely removed from the void drop tables because it is just an absolute waste of time for the players having them on there.

 

I would hope that this post would dissuade DE from including those resources in the drop tables of any new iteration of the void.

 

 

As for drop rates RNG I can't say the drop rates are so bad that it is a waste of time trying. Usually I farm about 10 keys and go to the void get the part I want within those 10 tries (40 if keysharing). There are some circumstances where I don't get the part but I don't really have that much of a problem with it because I can take those Items and sell them for ducats in order to get primed mods/prisma weapons/prisma cosmetics. Having ultra rare items is a normal aspect of RNG based loot games and it is what I would expect to be in a game like this.

Edited November 23, 2015 by viperveteran

[DiosGX]

The drop tables are perfectly fine, man.

 

There's nothing wrong w—

 

 

...

 

... ... oh.

 

Yeah F*** this. o3o

[Necrius]

I'm so supporting that fusion cores and orokin cells must go from T3 missions... But DE will never do anything that will even remotely may harm their cash cow. Whatever their advocates say, Warframe is far from player-oriented.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Necrius

[viperveteran]

Here are the results of my T4 SURVIVAL 21 mins of my time wasted

 

Edited November 30, 2015 by viperveteran

[Demon.King]

This is UNACCEPTABLE!!! This is a T3 Defense, Not a defense on Mars!!!!



Uncommon cores? 1 orokin cell? What is this? some low level Saturn tile?

Edited December 2, 2015 by Demon.King