Lex (pistol) Talent tree - Clip "increase" error

[B42e]

Yeah, so the clip size on Lex can't be increased with it's talent points.

[[DE]Steve]

Its true, the ratio% is too small due to clipsize being small. If you stack it may work. We will be looking into this.

[KGeddon]

Its true, the ratio% is too small due to clipsize being small. If you stack it may work. We will be looking into this.

Stacking does work with just the tree "clip" nodes. It just yields a small result for multiple nodes. Could it get the HEK treatment?

[Ced23Ric]

Every node gives you 0.5 more clip size - 2x 0.5 = 1 more bullet.

[KGeddon]

Every node gives you 0.5 more clip size - 2x 0.5 = 1 more bullet.

Not true. Magazine capacity increases are multiplicative(see Gorgon), but not all tree "clip" nodes are the same. The standard for primary weapons is 25% increase. Secondaries get a 10% increase AFAIK. Calculate it out multiplicatively, round result down.

base=6

1 node = 6.6(6)

2 nodes =7.26(7)

3 nodes =7.986(7)

4 nodes = 8.7846(8)

This is important due to "clip" mods.

edit::If possible, set the base value to 6.9? Base magazine size would be 6 rounds, each "clip" tree node would yield 1 extra bullet. "Clip" mods would be slightly more useful, but meh. I stack the damage as more powerful bullets > more bullets due to a low fire rate.

Base=6.9(6)

1 node = 7.59(7)

2 nodes =8.349(8)

3 nodes =9.1839(9)

4 nodes = 10.10228(10)

Edited January 20, 2013 by KGeddon

[Ced23Ric]

Not true.

Unmodified, my rank 30 pro'ed Lex has 8 bullets. It starts with 6. The upgrade nodes say CLIP CAPACITY ( 6.00 ^ 6.00 ) instead of something usefull. Four upgrade nodes, +2 bullets, makes it 0.5 in my books. That is, admittedly, my interpretation of the ongoings.

[KGeddon]

Unmodified, my rank 30 pro'ed Lex has 8 bullets. It starts with 6. The upgrade nodes say CLIP CAPACITY ( 6.00 ^ 6.00 ) instead of something usefull. Four upgrade nodes, +2 bullets, makes it 0.5 in my books. That is, admittedly, my interpretation of the ongoings.

Clip capacity is multiplicative. Tooltips are pretty much always wrong as they either multiply against the base value(such as damage mods, clip mods), or an incorrectly displayed incorrect value(elemental mods tooltip is showing as if your damage is 10, but they actually give a percenatage of your normal damage after all normal damage mods have been applies. 10 is not shown however, instead 0.00 is displayed).

You can check my numbers by adding VERY VERY small clip size mods to borderline numbers(respec if you need to remove nodes on a level 30 weapon). If you add a 5% "clip" mod to a 3 "clip" tree node Lex, you will switch from 7 to 8 rounds. This would not happen if each "clip" tree node were .5 bullets, but would work if each node was a 10% multiplicative increase.

You can do this with many weapons by using tree nodes to get close to whole numbers, observing it rounds down ALWAYS, and then adding on a tiny "clip" mod to push it over(and observing the presence of an extra bullet).

edit::Clarification. Tooltips are correct in giving you the amount of statistic added for additive bonuses. These are health, shields, and mod based critical damage(tree node crit damage is multiplicative). Not sure if crit damage mods being additive is a bug as of 5.4x.

Edited January 20, 2013 by KGeddon

[Ced23Ric]

I believe it.

We need clearer stats readouts anyway - but that has been recognized by DE and will hopefully come soon.

[KGeddon]

I believe it.

We need clearer stats readouts anyway - but that has been recognized by DE and will hopefully come soon.

The game is still going to be clear as mud. Fortunately, there isn't much difference in builds as long as you don't do absolutely stupid things(like stacking lightning vs infested),