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[DE]Danielle

Sniper Rifle Rework [U18 Megathread]

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Take aim and breathe steady, Tenno. The following changes have been made to all Sniper Rifles: 
 
      • Sniper Rifles now have a variable zoom that can be adjusted in two ways: 
               • Firstly, your right mouse button is a 'held' aim
               • Secondly, your middle-mouse button (alt-fire) adjusts zoom levels. 
      • Each level of zoom will provide a stat bonus that is applied to each shot. These bonuses are specific to each Sniper Rifle and will be  
         indicated in the scope.
      • Successive kills with a Sniper Rifle will apply toward a combo counter, which will apply a damage bonus for each successive kills.
      • The Sniper Rifle’s combo counter will reset after a period of delay, or when the player misses their next shot.
      • Sniper Rifle scopes have received a visual overhaul.

 

 

 

 

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You failed to fix snipers for the second time. They never needed more damage, they needed punch through, reliable damage in the form of constant crits and reload speed. Why do some snipers need a whopping 3 second reload time? That's more than most rifles, equal to almost all heavy machineguns. Please make snipers on par with bows next time you look at them.

Lastly, please restore them so that they're accurate outside of aiming with a scope. It was a really unnecessary change and you're missing out on the damage buff from not scoping anyway, you shouldn't be forced to scope on every single shot.

 

Edit: I would seriously pay to have a zoom option where you don't use the scope, you just use iron sights like 99% of all other weapons, you won't zoom and you won't get any damage bonus, this would be a simple big step in the right direction to make snipers fit the game.

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i really wish snipers and bows had special properties vs nullifier bubbles.  this is one reason i still believe they are not as popular and more niche weapon types because slow rate of fire weapons are really weak against the bubbles, no matter how much damage they can output.

 

if they could make the bubble disappear faster some way i think they'd be a great addition to any team

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bigger bad guys worth sniping

 

when?

^this.

Sniper rifles still aren't worth using compared to weapons that can kill more enemies in less time. 

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Haven't played it yet. But I'm not sure if I like the kill counter.

I'll give better feed back when I actually try it, but with 1-6 in the mag, and depending on the timer, could be bad (worse then the consecutive shot idea) But I can see how it encourages actual sitting and sniping. You will have more reward for emptiness a clip in one go.

That being said. Once you get up into higher levels, it doesn't scale well. 2 shots per enemy is absolutly debilitating. My snipetron Vandal has 0 accuracy once I mod it for enough damage to be useful with even just level 30s. Unless of course the timer is long enough

Doesn't mean I'm not open to it. Just thought I would share my thoughts on the current changes before I try it.

Damage based on zoom encourages long range which is neat. But hard to use on most maps, I'm sure most would just leave it fully zoomed for highest damage. Esspecially if they are used to current scope zooms.

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im not sure yet but when i use my vectis it seems the changes u guys did to scoping the shake seems to affect hipfire accuracy

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You failed to fix snipers for the second time. They never needed more damage, they needed punch through and reload speed.

 

Agreed, i honestly already gave up. Snipers main problems are their impracticality. DE have reach the point where they obviously refuse trying to make sniper rifles more practical to use.  Whatever their logic is regarding sniper they will never be convinced to look the other way.

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im not sure yet but when i use my vectis it seems the changes u guys did to scoping the shake seems to affect hipfire accuracy

Sniper accuracy has taken a major hit. Firing too quickly after scoping will result in highly reduced accuracy.  There is no real indication of how much time it takes for it to settle.  Because of the long reload this is especially painful on the new sniper.

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This entire rework is honestly going about snipers the wrong way entirely. Shotguns got so much love, the Hek and the Tigris feel amazing. I was so insanely hyped over the impending Sniper Rework that could put them right in line with those wonderful shotguns, something that could really earn them a place in the arms of the Tenno. Right up until you actually announced what your plans were. And then I was crushed. I still held on to hope, but found only disappointment when I took the old Snipetron Vandal out. The only thing that feels improved is the scope itself, but the scope damage bonus and combo system feel rushed and tacked on, not to mention completely out of place.

 

Tying damage boosts to the scope forces the player to quick-scope in close range engagements just to get the full damage the weapon should be doing at any range even without using the scope. Again, let me reiterate that, just in case: The weapon should always do its full damage with or without the scope.

 

Adding the combo system just brings the problems melee has to a new class of weapons that has no reason for it. The combo system doesn't work, in both cases, because the timer is too short. Moving from one enemy to another maybe 10 feet away with melee often means losing the combo, and in the case of snipers, reloading means losing the combo. So you start back at square one, doing weak damage, just because you have no time to keep the combo going. The only Sniper that might manage to keep the combo going is Vectis, because it quickly reloads individual shots, while all the others all have long reload times.

 

Even without those problems, the combo system has literally no business being on snipers in the first place. It completely goes against what snipers are meant to do. Snipers are meant to carefully aim, and land hits with devastating damage. The combo system means the new focus of snipers is playing rapid-fire whack-a-mole with the enemies for the sake of building up the combo, because there's no time to really stop and aim for that headshot if you want to keep that combo up. It also means your first shot in every magazine for everything but the Vectis will always be your absolute weakest shot (not counting the damage bonus from Charged/Primed Chamber). This entire system plays completely against sitting back, taking careful aim, and getting that long distance headshot.

 

The players asked for a long time to get damage buffs (crit chance/damage buffs) and punch through, because these things actually made sense for a sniper. A sniper is meant to hit accurately, and do a lot of damage to the target. Having the sniper rifles do really heavy damage on their own, and have a nice bonus for headshots when a target is sturdy enough to call for it, would be perfect. And punch-through is there to give skilled players a proper avenue to take care of crowds: well-placed shots through a line of enemies. Some might be balanced more toward heavy damage, some might be built more toward huge crits, some might be built towards faster fire rate or more punch through, but this entire rework so far is completely off-target, except for the crazy damage boost Lanka got (might be incorrect; I am not a Lanka user but it seems that it jumped though it may just be the charge damage vs uncharged damage).

 

Please, I implore you, as a player who grabbed Snipetron first thing when starting out back in U7, go back to the drawing board on this, and come back with a proper rework for my favorite dust collectors.

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 I just tried the sniper because I liked a couple of the sniper rifles that I have tried, and I really like the Vulkar.  At first the combo system sounded bad.  Then I played it and while yes you can boost the damage, most of the time you absolutely don't need it, and whenever you need it, other people are killing things fast so you have to get lucky to be shooting targets regularly.

 

 Combo system for snipers could involve some other bonus, like maybe improves your recoil and reload speed because you are focused, but it should not be bonus damage.  As said above, the sniper rifle should have the damage all on it's own.

 

 As a side note.  I have pretty much never liked any of the alternate view modes.  Sniper scope, camera, whatever.  Most of them do not look great for me.  Add on that I can hit targets at long range or short range without scoping and that makes the scope unnecessary for me.  Which means this new system just isn't for me.  It probably works for some people, but it isn't a way to make the sniper worthwhile in most missions because you are with other people that aren't slowing down to scope a shot.

 

 The combo system should not be attached to the scope or to the damage.  The sniper rifle needs it's damage all the time no matter what.

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I don't believe these changes will make much of a difference in the usefulness of snipers. Bows will still outclass them in every way possible. Instead of giving sniper rifles more reliable damage you hide it behind a gimmicky mechanic that is more of hindrance during WF combat than it is useful. However, I will play around with each rifle and provide my feedback one by one. I love shotguns, and you guys did right on them. I also really like snipers and I feel you have "missed the mark" on this one if I may say so.

 

First, the extra zoom is useless in WF.  All enemies rush at you and are almost never more than 15 meters away. Also, seeing the speeds we are able to achieve via parkour distance is a small variable anyway. Enemy too far away? Move closer as they move to you. Also, other players will be mowing down seas of meat bags while you try to hit a target with your intense zoom and what I would say unnecessary boble. Damage per a shot was an issue in the inreliablity but no matter how hard a sniper can hit, it will never stand a chance against in a game where damage per a second is king over damage per a shot. Again nearly all combat is at close to mid range, so by reducing hip fire accuracy, you have lowered their effectiveness overall. Reducing hip fire accuarcy was a bad move imho. Makes snipers even less crowd friendly.

 

Lanka: My personal favorite. Actually my second favorite weapon in game. I would say the Lanka actually took a negative on this pass. Hip fire accuracy was lowered, still viable at close range w/ HC useless at mid range. This hinders the run and gun style for the lanka, which is one of the reasons why I say it was the best sniper rifle due to the fact it could be basically used as a battle rifle, like the latron series. While zoomed in the lanka is as good as it's former self with a little extra crit chance thrown in if you like looking up grineer noses. Again, still most of it's previous problems remain. Unreliable damage.

 

Snipetron: Hits a little harder zoomed in but still has it's same old problems. Nothing new here.

 

Vectis: Innate punch-through!! Really, Vectis /VP did not need MOAR damage. Just adding 2m innate punch-through would of been a great change.

 

Vulkar: I think Vulkar is the only one that came out with a major plus. It was lacking damage and with the AWESOME 2.5X (perfect for me) zoom you can get the augment bonus without crippling yourself with a high zoom. Again, innate punch-through would have been awesome.

 

Rubico: First off, this thing sounds great. Secondly, it looks great. Let's get to the meat of it though. This thing has an insane crit damage multiplier. Too bad it's crit chance is unreliable. Also, the sight dot is way to small. Combine that with the random scope sway and you got a nightmare for long range shots. The 5x zoom base is too much imo and again the unreliability of the weapon in terms of damage don't help it out at all.

 

Overall, I feel this "buff" has actually done not much if anything. Sure the hit harder if you zoom, but doing that you are risking tunnel visioning yourself in a horde shooter. Snipers overall still struggle with most combat due to their awkwardness in crowds.

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I found this sniper rework to be a little disappointing. The biggest problems that sniper rifles face weren't tended to at all. On the other hand, the fact that sniper rifles are getting any attention at all is still nice. So here's my thoughts on the matter.

 

So first, that combo thingy that they added is a neat idea, until I realized the timer is super short. I like to take my time when I aim with sniper rifles, I like to line up good shots. Having a super short timer on the combos makes it really difficult to keep it running, especially if other people are killing my targets before I can.

 

Next we have the bonus stats from being scoped in are also a decent idea, but I'm questioning if any sniper rifle got anything more than "x% more damage." I only have the Vectis Prime and regular Snipetron to look at, so I don't know if any sniper rifles gain extra crit chance, crit damage, or status chance. Would certainly be more interesting if that were the case. 

 

Now, as for the problems that didn't get any attention...

 

Punch through! Why don't sniper rifles all have innate punch through? I've seen endless requests for innate punch through, and personally agree with the idea. I also want to take it a step further, even. I think sniper rifles should be able to shoot through arctic eximus bubbles and nullifier bubbles. Currently, nullifiers are one of few targets that are actually important to take out quickly, which is what you think a sniper rifle would be good for. Then they get that bubble that makes slow weapons useless.

 

Critical chance. It seems strange to me that 25% crit chance is the highest that any sniper rifle can get. It's just right at that point where building for crit gives the most damage, but it's still irritatingly unreliable. I would love to see red crits out of sniper rifles, but at the very least, just getting it to an even 100% with point strike would be amazing.

 

Also, this isn't something that can be changed with sniper rifles themselves, but having more big, tough enemies that have to be taken down with precise fire would be a benefit to sniper rifles. It would give them a little more purpose. I think Juggernauts were a nice starting point for that sort of thing.

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having a long time in the combos would be enough for me (like 30 or 60 sec before it resets or something like that, since it resets if u miss a shot anw).

 

you would be able to increase your damage over the time and keep doing one shot to strong monsters, and sice you would be able to do that, u could give up on one of the dmg mods to get punch trough or reload speed or what u want.

 

another option is:

modifications or new mods of elemental dmg and etc. that:

-gives eletricity dmg and puch trough based on the damage of the weapon

-gives blast dmg and makes your bullets explode enemies based on the difference between dmg caused and enemy life before the last shot.

-gives magnetic damage and make the bullets go the the nearest enemy in the area u fired, it will go for the head if aimed close to it.

-gives toxin damage and creates a toxic smoke screen where u kill a enemy with a headshot

-gives reload speed and punch trough.

-gives viral dmg and makes the enemy recieve DoT based on a porcentage of the shot fired for x sec.

-gives cold damage and make the first shot on a enemy chill him and increase the crit chance and dmg to chilled targets by 50%.

-gives fire dmg and make enemys close to the bullet way to burn.

-gives radiation dmg and make bullets ignore enemy shield auras, also confuse enemys that take headshots for a short time

-gives dmg,reload speed and fire rate bonus when u'r not moving.

-etc...

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Take aim and breathe steady, Tenno. The following changes have been made to all Sniper Rifles: 
 
      • Sniper Rifles now have a variable zoom that can be adjusted in two ways: 
               • Firstly, your right mouse button is a 'held' aim
               • Secondly, your middle-mouse button (alt-fire) adjusts zoom levels. 
 
      • Each level of zoom will provide a stat bonus that is applied to each shot. These bonuses are specific to each Sniper 
        Rifle and will be indicated in the scope.
 
      • Successive kills with a Sniper Rifle will apply toward a combo counter, which will apply a damage bonus for each   
         successive kills.
 
      • The Sniper Rifle’s combo counter will reset after a period of delay, or when the player misses their next shot.
 
      • Sniper Rifle scopes have received a visual overhaul.

 

 

Variable zoom:

while this change is nice for lower zoom, its bad because the "level of zoom" bonus is higer the higher the zoom level is.

so this enhanced another issue that we had...why do we need high zoom weapons when the tilesets are all made for close range? there are so few long tiles that its not worth using.

also 15% damage is laughable. 150% and i would think about using it, because then it would have a chance to actually kill enemies like a redcrit bow can.

 

the combo counter is again...well...why?

snipers have limited ammo, no punch through, low damage, while bows are the exact opposite. also it resets on a missed shot, combined with a timer, low damage, low speed and no puncture...nah not worth it.

 

so i still see no use for them over my sniper-opticor or my dread.

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Does anyone know what each weapon got as a "scoping" bonus?  I only have the Vulkar, and it seemed to just get a damage buff.  It'd be cool if each weapon got a unique effect other than just % damage boost.

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Does anyone know what each weapon got as a "scoping" bonus?  I only have the Vulkar, and it seemed to just get a damage buff.  It'd be cool if each weapon got a unique effect other than just % damage boost.

vectis and snipetron have the damage buff, lanka has a crit chance buff

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Tested out on Snipetron Vandal (Record for Gun: 6,500 kills 77% accuracy)

Pros: Slight Damage Buff is welcome

Cons: Hipfire accuracy is TERRIBLE now (that spread is shameful.)

Full damage is only when zoomed in 6x

Visual when zoomed doesn't look as cool
 

Verdict: For those of us that could hipfire well, this is not good.

I appreciate the intentions, but this only kicks the sniper further into that ignored niche corner.
Will drop gun until sniper 3.0
 

Edit: For the short version, read the bold.

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For the next rework, can we maybe get something like a guaranteed crit when we hit the head of the enemy? and when that hit would naturally crit, it turns into a red crit instead?

that way we would finally have sniper rifles that reward us for "shooting the head"

the current rework was just "shoot as fast as you can AND DONT MISS"...thats not sniper-like gameplay, isnt it?

 

the accuracy "nerf" is indeed terrible btw.

before the "rework" it was possible to aim at the entrance of void defense and hit things, maybe even deal lethal damage (nah just kidding, lex prime was way better for that)...but now the scope swings around.

seriously, we are friggin tenno, we are highly agile ninjas that can walk on ropes and throw knifes with pinpoint accuracy while we carry heavy siege weapons than can pin enemies who are wearing tons of armor onto a wall at the other end of a room, we can punch things so hard that they fly across the map,

but as soon as we try to aim through a scope we have the Parkinson's Disease?!

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