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Sniper Rifle Rework [U18 Megathread]


[DE]Danielle
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the combo system is not fit to sniper rifles. it fit to semi-auto rifles...

 

so i suggest these.

 

always head shot(or weak-spot shot) while maximum level zoom and aiming enemies perfectly.(even if you shoot the leg, the bullet flew toward head. like mesa's peacemaker.)

head shot(or weak-spot shot) are ignore armor.

ignore barriers.(nullifier, arctic, etc...)

default punch-through 2m.

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This is one of the reasons I think the Lanka is the most effective sniper rifle; it is essentially a reskinned bow, possessing both innate silence and a considerable amount of punch-through. Heck it even has a charge-up mechanic and a non-hitscan projectile. It just gets screwed over by being... well, a sniper rifle :P

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If DE wants my sniper rifle to act like a shotgun when I'm not in the scope, I'll just use it like a shotgun. No skin off my back.

That was my original point as well, snipers are for scopes. I said the same thing, you want one shot kill up close, use a scattered justice hek. Until I actually used snipers

But the hip fire is actually really THAT bad. There will be times where we have to hip fire. As it is right now, there's about a 20% chance no batter how close you are the bullet is going to hit. This was using the Rubico, with split chamber and *no* heavy caliber. Other then that I had a bit of time with my snipetron V no enough to talk about it though

Edited by SeEnCreaTive
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Hip Fire inaccuracy destroyed the class. 

 

Horrible move. 

 

CAN'T. PLAY. SNIPERS. ANYMORE. 

 

Basically undos your attempt to improve them and puts them even worse. 

 

Besides, the buffs are not that great. 

 

AND YOU STILL DIDN'T FIX VECTIS PRIME. - remove the extra bullet, buff base damage or crit chance, buff fire rate+reload. 

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Sniper rifles should be crit weapons. Every one of them should be able to achieve good crits with the proper mods.

• Buff crit chance for Lanka, Snipetron, and Vulkar to 34% (50% with Critical Delay, 75% with Point Strike, 100% with both)

• Buff crit chance for Rubico to 40% (59% with Critcal Delay, 88% with Point Strike, 120% with both)

• Buff crit chance for Vectis to 50% (74% with Critical Delay, 110% with Point Strike, 149% with both)

All sniper rifles could achieve 100% crits. Lanka could achieve reliable red-crits using it's zoom levels. The Rubico could achieve red-crits with the proper build or reliable crits without. The Vectis could achieve red-crits with a single mod. 

 

An unscoped zoom level should be added, like with the Grinlok and other rifles. This zoom level would provide no bonuses, but let us use the rifles in shorter ranges.

 

Hipfire accuracy should be reverted to pre-18 levels. It's ridiculous how it is currently.

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Seriously Snipers somehow seem to always be in a perpetual state of mediocrity while weapons that are pretty much Sniper in every sense of the word are not classified as such.


 


For example let's take the Opticor. A sniper weapon in all of its mechanics but with none of the disappointment. It deals 500 damage uncharged and 1000 at 3/4s charge and those are the unranked stats by the way. It has pinpoint accuracy whether you scoped or not and when you are scoped you don't have to deal with an annoying scope that actual makes it harder to Snipe (Scope Sway is not ok and neither is adding four dots around the reticule that do absolutely nothing and have made it nearly impossible to use the Vulkar). The Opticor also uses Rifle Ammo and 520 rounds in reserve that's approximately 108 reloads and with a 2 second reload compared to the typical 3 second reload that most Snipers have. 


 


I feel that the combo system is pretty nice except Combos should last at least 2 times longer consider the tiny clips, long reloads, and slow fire rate of snipers. They are not meant to be used to mow down groups of enemies and you shouldn't be expected to be in the middle of a fight all the freakin' time just to keep up your combo. I've also heard a suggestion that Snipers have a special ammo seperate from all the rest that regenerates over time and isn't affected by weapons like the Kulstar, Castanas, or Talons.


 


The Opticor is the Single Best Sniper in the game because it has great damage, no annoying scopes, uses rifle ammo and has a large ammo reserve that is unaffect by secondaries that use sniper ammo so things like the Castananas or Talons don't affect the max ammo pool of the weapon.


 


In this light some madatory sniper changes should be:


1. All snipers have between 400-800 damage and the lower the damage the higher the crit chance. There should at least be one sniper with 35% crit chance


2. Increase both the reload speed and fire rate of snipers


3. Get rid of pointless add-ons to the Sniper Scope. Why would you ever want to use scopes if they make you less accurate.


4. 100% accuracy all the time because having to switch weapons every time an some gook gets too close is far too slow and cumbersome.


 


Seriously DE I know you have some interesting ideas and you always want to make everything more in-depth and interesting but all this calls for are some simple buffs.


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just had an Idea: by Logic, don't Sniper Rifles actually have to be the sole most powerful Weapons there are to have them balanced in a Game thats Gameplay supports Sniper Rifles the very least?

BTW - this Sniper Kill Combo System the way it is now seems to me a super wrong idea because it's so logical that in an Environment Low-Level enough that one can build up the Kill-Count fast enough to build up the Combo Damage Bonus - one doesn't really have any much of use for that Damage Bonus in the first place anyway - while in an Environment High-Level enough to make the Combo Damage Bonus useful, one cannot really build up the Kill-Count fast enough anyway, especially as the different Reload Speeds among Sniper Rifles don't simply pause the Combo Timer - imbalancing stuff even further... .

Combo is per hit, not per kill thankfully. Multishot and Punch through (o look woulda been nice to have that innate) can double the per shot count (quadruple with both).
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I'm pretty OK with the change, but this game is fast and has a lot of enemies at close to medium range, not suitable for a sniper rifle.

 

And a grineer rifle scope is still not good.  It's better than the previous version but its crosshair still easily blend with the view.

(Isn't the previous version scope turned red when aimed at valid target?  This feature is quite useful.)

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Right, so...

 

+ Combo mechanic works well with multishot/punchthough

 

- Still no innate punchthrough

- Hipfiring could cause you to miss when you're literally in front of the target

- Zoom levels are absolutely horrendous to use on most tileset

- Scoping has a slight sway

- You still can't reach 100% critical chance on most snipers. I'm well aware that Lanka can red crit now, but you have to use the highest zoom level in order to do that, and that's stupid as hell.

- Still completely useless vs. nullifier bubbles and anything with damage cap.

- Snipers with 3.0 sec reload and low mag size still exists. 

 

Improvements™ everybody.

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Seriously Snipers somehow seem to always be in a perpetual state of mediocrity while weapons that are pretty much Sniper in every sense of the word are not classified as such.

For example let's take the Opticor. A sniper weapon in all of its mechanics but with none of the disappointment. It deals 500 damage uncharged and 1000 at 3/4s charge and those are the unranked stats by the way. It has pinpoint accuracy whether you scoped or not and when you are scoped you don't have to deal with an annoying scope that actual makes it harder to Snipe (Scope Sway is not ok and neither is adding four dots around the reticule that do absolutely nothing and have made it nearly impossible to use the Vulkar). The Opticor also uses Rifle Ammo and 520 rounds in reserve that's approximately 108 reloads and with a 2 second reload compared to the typical 3 second reload that most Snipers have.

I feel that the combo system is pretty nice except Combos should last at least 2 times longer consider the tiny clips, long reloads, and slow fire rate of snipers. They are not meant to be used to mow down groups of enemies and you shouldn't be expected to be in the middle of a fight all the freakin' time just to keep up your combo. I've also heard a suggestion that Snipers have a special ammo seperate from all the rest that regenerates over time and isn't affected by weapons like the Kulstar, Castanas, or Talons.

The Opticor is the Single Best Sniper in the game because it has great damage, no annoying scopes, uses rifle ammo and has a large ammo reserve that is unaffect by secondaries that use sniper ammo so things like the Castananas or Talons don't affect the max ammo pool of the weapon.

In this light some madatory sniper changes should be:

1. All snipers have between 400-800 damage and the lower the damage the higher the crit chance. There should at least be one sniper with 35% crit chance

2. Increase both the reload speed and fire rate of snipers

3. Get rid of pointless add-ons to the Sniper Scope. Why would you ever want to use scopes if they make you less accurate.

4. 100% accuracy all the time because having to switch weapons every time an some gook gets too close is far too slow and cumbersome.

Seriously DE I know you have some interesting ideas and you always want to make everything more in-depth and interesting but all this calls for are some simple buffs.

Agreed on all but scopes, maybe also make alt fire un-aimed swap between scope and pre-scope aim for snipers (standard rifle aim but with about 2x the zoom). Edited by DarcnyssWolfe
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Hip Fire inaccuracy destroyed the class. 

 

Horrible move. 

 

CAN'T. PLAY. SNIPERS. ANYMORE. 

 

Basically undos your attempt to improve them and puts them even worse. 

 

Besides, the buffs are not that great. 

 

AND YOU STILL DIDN'T FIX VECTIS PRIME. - remove the extra bullet, buff base damage or crit chance, buff fire rate+reload. 

Agree.

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Congratulations DE, you made sniper rifles even less useful than before.

 

Really? A combo meter? Nerfing unscoped accuracy? Whose idea was this? Did Steve do this? This is awful.

 

So many good suggestions in this thread. Please read through it, and then I hope you spend a lot of time trying to ACTUALLY fix sniper rifles, as they're even worse now than they've ever been.

 

Really disappointing.

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Please rework accuracy for sniper, auto and semi-auto rifles.

It's funny to see the automatic rifles with a higher accuracy than the semi-automatic and sniper rifles.

Actually I want accuracy buff for semi-auto and sniper rifles. Cuz they already have bigger recoil compared with automatic rifles.

Edited by 254th
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I realize you're trying to set snipers apart from bows, but different for the sake of it doesn't solve anything, especially in this case since snipers keep suffering from that mentality as a result.

 

Bows not only have reliable crits, they have punch-through and you don't get stuck reloading for several seconds, and most importantly... no forced scope.

 

Let me go over what needs to be fixed.

 

1. We need an option to toggle the scope. You should be able to use standard iron-sight with right click (like any non-sniper such as Braton ), and alt fire should bring up the scope and zoom option. Forced zoom in this game isn't a great idea, especially the way scopes are implemented here where they take up the entire screen. It's a fast pace game, the zoom is detrimental in a lot of cases, we can't afford to stand still, and it can be disorienting.

 

Keep the combo mechanic if you're zooming, and when zooming/using scope any sniper will have 100% accuracy. If you use standard iron-sight you get an accuracy penalty (something like 17 accuracy (like bows) should do), and no combo counter.

 

The above fix alone is a good start since it'll allow for more versatile use of snipers, however there's a couple of other things.

 

2. Reload time. I'll use Rubico as an example here. I kill 5 enemies and now I stand there, waiting to finish off another 5 enemies while I reload my weapon. Then I gotta re-zoom and set myself up for the other shots again (and possibly lose the combo counter as a result). Even worse if you're moving around a lot. Vectis doesn't suffer from this, and to some degree Lanka, why though? Simple. Vectis has reload time comparable to a bow, and Lanka has built-in punch-through. Reload time is not normally an issue with most weapons, but snipers have a very small magazine size, so you spend more time reloading than you do shooting. In a game where killing speed is important this is where snipers fall short.

 

3. Punch-through. I'm half 'n half about this. Yes there is a mod for this, however I feel the sniper category should probably have this built in as compensation for some of the drawbacks the weapon has. Punch-through would actually solve the reload time to some degree as well. One problem is tied to another. Fixing one could potentially fix the second. Faster reload = no punch-through - or - punch-through = slower reload.

 

My final thoughts:

 

Sniping is generally a stationary role. In Warframe that is a difficult thing to accomplish. If snipers are to be used on the go they need to be adjusted to allow this easier. My #1 should solve this to a degree. Honestly nothing overly complex was ever needed with the snipers. I dare say you wasted your time with the current system. It's not bad - but it is overly gimmicky. No zoom/scope option, and built in punch-through - I think more people would have been content with such changes.

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2 simple things would make snipers wonderful:

1. First, and most importantly, GET RID OF THE AIM SWAY.  This was a stupid addition, and I really can't see how anyone could have thought it was a good thing.  At the very least, give us a "steady aim" keybind.

2. Decrease zoom levels by 20-40%.  12x zoom is way too high for anything currently in Warframe.

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2 simple things would make snipers wonderful:

1. First, and most importantly, GET RID OF THE AIM SWAY.  This was a stupid addition, and I really can't see how anyone could have thought it was a good thing.  At the very least, give us a "steady aim" keybind.

2. Decrease zoom levels by 20-40%.  12x zoom is way too high for anything currently in Warframe.

 

If you need something that's recoil-less / has no aim sway / shoot to hit target, look no further than...wait...EVERY OTHER weapon in the game.

 

For 2., ever tried using zipline with an Ivara to get someplace high, and using it? Cause that's what it's meant for. Unless you go all 12x zoom in a small room I don't know what's wrong with having that on a SNIPER rifle. Cheers.

Edited by LeeAmatsu
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