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[DE]Danielle

Sortie Missions [U18 Megathread]

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Can we please have it that people cant enter unless they are on level 30 frames with level 30 weapons etc? Pugging it can be rough enough with bad connections hosting etc. I don't feel that end game stuff should allow people to enter on level 6 frames expecting to be carried/leveled in actual challenging content. Today I had to quit 4 times to get a party of people that werent semi naked for the second sortie & work really hard to finish the defense 20 waves finishing with over 80% of the kills, while two other team members were on unmaxed frames/weapons thinking it was a draco leveling picnic.

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When the update was coming out, Sorties were the main thing I was looking for, as an endgame player of WoW, I was looking for a rewarding challenge. So far my experience has been mixed.

 

The first sortie I did with a public team, and it wasn't really that hard. It took a little while, but it was fun. I got a Naramon Lens for it, which I didn't know what to think about, having not completed the quest yet.

 

The second sortie I did with two friends. It was fun, but for the Eximus defense mission, which was quite brutal in three players, but we powered through it. Again, I got a lens, this time Madurai.

 

The sortie today, with infestation, was just terrible. The Excavation requiring 1500 cryotic AND having a Sniper only requirement was the worst, worst mission I had the displeasure of doing in Warframe as a whole. With a public group, with noone having a proper weapon, we had to gather Cryotic by 10-20, it took upwards of an hour. The defense was much easier, but again, took a lot of time to complete. And the worst part? I got 25x R3 core as a reward.

 

So, for feedback:

-Difficulty wise, the missions are on the medium scale, I would say.

-Endless sorties take WAY too much time to be fun.

-Some rewards feel like a joke. Greater Lens blueprints in the reward pool? Really? We can buy it for the equivalent of the actual credit rewards from the sorties from the market. Fusion core packs that are not even R5, for some two hours of work? That's like laughing us in the face.

-Repeating rewards are not fun, I propose taking out things OUT of the reward pool when getting that given item. This could be limited to items like weapon parts and blueprints, perhaps the legendary core. Lens could be repeated, as a player usually needs just one kind of lens.

-Some way of rewarding player for doing a sortie mission every day of the season, like guaranteeing he at least gets the weapons complete (this would reduce the overall RNG, which wouldn't be a bad thing).

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Tedious.

Simply tedious.

 

I've given up on getting a reward from this one purely because of how tedious the Excavation mission is.

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Do not approve of greater lens BPs being in the drop tables, 200k credits from the market is nothing to a decent player at the level to attempt this imo so it is literally a trash reward to have them in the table, hell you'll probably earn well over 200k just doing enough sorties to get 4 lenses.

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I'll tell my feedback about these new kind of missions.

It's fun to have restraints like less energy or having to stick to only one type of weapon and I'm looking forward to see more of these but, like some people have already pointed out, endless sortie missions (like today Phorid excavation/defense and yesterday Anyo defense) felt really endless.

I did Anyo's in 1h and Phorid's in 1:30h, that's just too much for three missions, and aside the last 5 waves they weren't even that challenging, just reached the next level of boring.

Defenses could be changed to 5 waves only by adjusting the enemy difficulty to be like 15-20waves and less health on the pod.

Regarding excavation the 1500 cryotic change was crazy and unnecessary, the normal 5 excavators seen in alerts and syndicate missions is good.

Briefly, endless missions felt like a 'hope to not crash challenge' and 'hope I don't get an emergency call challenge' giving the idea of be wasting time.

Rewards are fine imo even thought getting a Bp that could be bought from the market after 20 looong waves is infuriating.

The Sargas Ruk sortie mission line feels a lot better and the lack of endless missions will make it 100x more enjoyable. 

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Personally i find Sortie Missions A bit challenging at top tier, but not too bad. sure the rewards aren't amazing but you know what is? the sheer amount of weapon xp I'm getting from it.

 

If i can find a half decent group, i can gurantee 2-3 levels over the course of a sortie on any equipment other than my frame (for obvious reasons).

 

Screw the rewards other than lenses, i just wanted the xp anyways

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I like sorties. Except for some parts others have already agreed on.

 

1.Recycled Rewards: Please make it so that once we get one part, we don't get it again. Getting two Karak barrels in a row is quite disheartening.

 

2. Extremely long missions for endless: Defense and excavations are the primary culprits here. Eximus defense was pretty insane, but 20 waves of that? 10 would be fine. And 15 excavations? Holy hell. It's way too long, especially with restrictions like sniper only and such.

 

3. Fusion core rewards should all be r5 not r0s. They should also be in packs of 50 if there are going to be 1 hour long defenses like we've been doing.

 

4. The sortie should give a fully built GREATER lens instead of a bp. Whats the point of awarding a bp you can buy in the market for a measly 200k?

 

 

Apart from that, I really liked Ruk's sortie today, even if i got a karak barrel again. That grineer spy was challenging because it tested your hand eye coordination with those grineer hacking grids, i felt like Tom Cruise. The exterminate was good too. Overall, I really enjoyed today's sortie.

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My primary feedback RE: Sorties is that the current one with the snipers only requirement is really poorly thought out. I can only use a sniper against infested, meaning I'm almost always out of ammo and killing anything is incredibly tedious. Annoying, but ok whatever. I'm in an excavation mission, where I have to carry tubes, but I have neither a melee weapon nor a sidearm. Also annoying, but I guess I can deal with it. If you have no sidearm, the game doesn't switch back to your primary gun when you insert the battery. Again, annoying, but not the worst thing.

The worst thing is that all of these are happening at the same time, leading to a mission that's nothing but poor mechanical decisions filling me with hate. That, and the fact that the mission never ended, possibly due to a bug, but I can't tell because I wasn't told if there were any additional completion requirements (After doing at least one Excavation, we could stand at extract and if there was only one of us it would say that person was waiting on other players, but the minute anyone else showed up it treated us as though we weren't extracting). I'm so thoroughly annoyed that I'm writing four-line run-on sentences right now.

 

Absolutely agree. I feel this was poorly thought out. Many of the most tedious mechanical aspects of Warframe combined in a single mission, conspire, as you say, to engender significant frustration. There was literally nothing fun about this.

 

Sortie missions take waay to long. Especially with the latest hotfix. They are more tedious then they are challenging. Smaller bursts of intense missions would be much preferred over long haul missions that feel like a chore.

 

Completely agree. I think the effective health of enemies is artificially increasing the mission length far more than it should. This needs a reduction.

 

Sorties reward system sucks. Please make it like the standard event rewards with tiers like 1 mission gets you sortie badge and 10 missions gets you dera vandal all missions gets legendary core. Please DE

Edit: as for other rewards like lens just make them everyday drops but based on rng with tiers like common and rare

 

When, after the first 3 Sorties, I received a Madurai lens I cannot even use, I decided immediately that Sorties are simply not worth either the time nor the effort. Organizing a group takes a not insignificant amount of time. And running the tedious, bullet sponge laden missions - and three a day, no less - will literally require all of the gaming time I have on a given weeknight. All for yet another instance of RNG rewards.

 

No Thanks. IF anything, this more puts me off playing the game than it does encourage me to play.

 

Jesus christ, I was expecting the number of required excavations to be, like, five or something (like what you see in Syndicate missions).

 

Fifteen!?? Who thought that was a good idea? That's absolutely insane.

 

Completely agree. Adding another 5 Excavators to what is...already not the most exciting...mission type, does not make that mission type better.

 

Excavation today for the sniper alert was very poorly though out, only overshadowed by the 2 hour defense mission cause mobs kept getting stuck in the wall :(

 

All for a single part of the dera vandal..... ooooooh yay! not.

 

stack that on top of the fact that sortie rewards are RNG and you have a recipe for disaster, getting two naramon lenses back to back in two days is ridiculous.

 

I wouldn't mind sorties so much if 1. It couldn't give you the same reward for what you have already received and 2. The time for them was scaled back 1/3 - 1/2 of what it is now.

 

Agree completely. At the least, if the dice roll gives you a Lens, it should be one for your focus, guaranteed. Investing three hours of my day for a useless reward was insulting and not something I care to repeat. Ever.

 

Tedious.

Simply tedious.

 

I've given up on getting a reward from this one purely because of how tedious the Excavation mission is.

 

You are  better off avoiding these. I spent 3 hours of my Sunday on missions that gave me a Focus Lens (a terribly implemented mechanic to begin with) for a Focus I could not even use. Three hours of my day - and I basically DIDNT EVEN GET a reward. At all. 

 

The first - and last - time I ever run sorties. Too many bullet sponges. Too much artificial length per mission. Too little reward for the time invested - by far.

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Survival and Defense missions should really need their lengths toned down by half while amping the difficulty (such as spamming more Eximi or sending stronger enemy types earlier).

 

It gets pretty repetitive instead of being challenging the longer these mission types go through.

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Please for the love of the Lotus, get those Greater Lens blueprints out of the sorty reward table. They are purchasable through the market and should NOT just waste space in such high-stakes missions. This is blatant padding and does nothing but slap players in the face with a "you tried" attitude towards our efforts. 

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So far the impression is lackluster as sorties offer nothing new in term of actual game modes adding only:

- broken enemy scaling as enemies above a certain level were not intended to be part of the content per admission of the developers

- stupidly punishing mechanics or limitations in some of the missions

- intensively time consuming and boring missions that feel more a daily chore than enjoiable content

- RNG based "prize" picked from a list that is 2/3 garbage/padding, seriously the karak wraith and the dera vandal  should have remained an alert/event prize, without starting to talk about the greater lenses BP.

 

- today rescue and spy missions: i have no qualms about prohibiting cypers autosolvers, but puzzle mechanics were changed without prior explanation and any failed puzzle in the spy mission practically guarantees a failed run.

 

In the rescue mission you have at least a sufficent margin of time to stop the execution of the hostage, in the spy vaults you can botch the entire run even just by messing opening the door to the vault due to mob interference - considering the ongoing bugs on enemy spawn you can have easily an eximus spawning on your position while solving the cypher!

 

- In some instances failing the cypher manages to instakill your frame without explanation possible bug?

 

All in all it's resulting in a seriously frustrating and unrewarding experience considering that after all the time allready wasted in more than 20 tries on the 2nd part of the sortie without solving all three vaults, there is also the extermination mission... and the 2/3 chance of receiving a mediocre reward with less effort and time you can run void missions and have something to show for it with a lot less stress and frustration!

 

- you can't decide to abort and scrap the entire sortie and reroll a new one instead are forced to wait the full 24 hours for more of this...

 

As is sorties punish players for participating as they feel repetitive, boring/irritating and tend to compound and exacerbe the worse aspects of the mission types involved - this is no endgame it's a hastily thrown together mess that need urgrent tuning,

At the moment I have no intention of wasting any more time with this game mode and suggest to stay away from this game mode.

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I honestly like the sorties so far, not too happy with some of my drops, but not to a serious extent. I agree with two of the big problems people mention in this thread though:

1) Rewards most definitely should not repeat. We've already only got 15 days to try and get these rewards, so if you're like me and missed all those nice events god knows when your next chance will be if you finish this season with 2 greater lens bp's and a half dozen duplicate parts

2) Defense missions at 20 rounds, while in line with the challenge I expected, take a ridiculous and unreasonable amount of time. I can only imagine how much worse it would get if you combined it with something like an eximus stronghold.

 

I've also got a few questions about the "seasons" though:

Will they repeat eventually? and if so, how many seasons can we expect? Will that be likely to change to incorporate more drops in the future or will it be more likely that additional seasons are added to the rotation?

 

General feedback:

1) I like that the boss varies and we get some info on what these missions are actually for on the Sortie panel. It's cool to see an actual reason behind the mission as opposed to the regular generic "rescue this guy" or "defend this item." It was also pretty cool to see Phorid included, kind of cast the infested as a strategizing enemy instead of just creatures to mow down.

2) Reward pools (minus the repeating) are pretty cool IMO, nice to see people like me who missed most the events along the road getting a new chance at event exclusive items. Although we may need another way or two to get lenses since getting the one item you want out of a reward pool that size gets frustrating. Luckily there are other cool items to hope for.

3) The fact that the reset for Sorties differs from the reset for daily rewards/syndicate missions is a bit confusing but I'm willing to live with it.

 

Edit:

A lot of people were requesting you get to pick your rewards so you dont get duplicate pieces or lenses for another focus. I think instead a way it could work is use RNG for most of it (so it's still random) but remove items you've already gotten and let the player choose when certain things can be easily grouped but generally need a specific one. So if it awards you a lens or greater lens bp (which others have stated should be removed, something i agree with) you get to pick so you get the one you want and can use instead of one for a focus you have no interest in.

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So, just finished today's run with my group of friends and we got the 25 Fusion Cores reward.  Now, 25 cores is nothing great, but it's acceptable, or would be, if they weren't rank 3 cores.

 

I mean, really?  They couldn't be max rank cores?

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Disclaimer:

I have not read the whole thread.

 

 

 

Positive Feedback:

I love the Sorties making me rethink my loadouts and weapons every day. A natural progression in development from Tactical Alerts, they will definitely make me want to get on and play at least those missions daily even if I don't need the rewards.

 

I am pleasantly surprised at how well the pick up groups are going.

 

I have no problem with snipers vs lots of infested or any other combination others might label "bad". That toss up keeps things interesting and keeps players thinking.

 

 

 

Negative Feedback:

The time and effort spent doing something which can only be done once per day should not end in such a huge dice roll. People are going to go in wanting X, and they are unlikely to get it. This dooms your system to repeatedly disappoint most users. At minimum, players should not be getting the same rewards multiple times and we should have some level of control over which reward we get.

 

Ideally I would like to take my pick from the list and I really don't think that's too much to ask.

 

If that's out of the question maybe a re-roll button to try again if we want to. Maybe remove cores and such from the tables and make those a buy out option, where if a player doesn't like their reward they can take a pile of cores or ducats or something instead.

 

 

 

Gameplay Feedback:

I am quickly being reminded of old issues. For example, dropping or using a power cell in the sniper-only excavation mission left me standing there "unarmed" and I had to switch every time. I don't mind the mission being snipers only, but I'd rather you made the controls work properly before doing more of those. Also, we still don't have any sort of "unarmed" attack for these situations and that's just wonky. Please give us some sort of basic, terrible damage punch/kick combo when no melee weapon is equipped, for breaking boxes and what not.

 

 

 

Other disclaimers:

Above feedback is subject to change without notice. Please keep your arms, legs and syandana inside the liset until it comes to a complete stop. Small parts may present a choking hazard to operators. Batteries not included. Adults only. Do not eat raw. VKhaun is not responsible for damage caused by shopping carts. Do not attempt this feedback at home. Consult your doctor before taking this feedback. Gluten free. No refunds or returns. Feedback has no cash value. Feedback sold by weight, not volume. Use only as directed. Void where prohibited.

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But for the cores and greater lens BP, don't, just don't. You might as well have a picture of Steve wearing a troll face mask with the caption "Thank you for playing!" appear on the screen if a player is unlucky enough to get it.

 

100 times that. Please stop putting things you can buy for credits in the market in drop tables.

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Please for the love of the Lotus, get those Greater Lens blueprints out of the sorty reward table. They are purchasable through the market and should NOT just waste space in such high-stakes missions. This is blatant padding and does nothing but slap players in the face with a "you tried" attitude towards our efforts. 

 

Agree completely. The reward tables are already very, very large considering you get a maximum of 15 rolls on it. There's no need to pad it out with stuff that can be bought with credits.

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anyone do the math to figure out how impossible it is to get the Dera V from this season?

Looks like ill have to play tradeframe instead of warframe for a special event weapon. QQ

Letting us choose a reward, or condensing the rewards as suggested above would be nice.

 

sorry for the salt, im still bitter about the Dera vs Karak operation.

 

I really enjoy the sorties. I hope to see assassination missions become a part of it too!

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having items that can be purchased for credits and cannot be traded as rewards in the pool = bad

 

even though i certainly dont want karak wraith parts, i can see the validity of them as rewards

 

i also dont want fusion cores as a reward, but i can see the validity of getting a 25-50 bundle of them, BUT having them no even fully ranked? like wtf? srsly? =[

 

certainly it would behoove DE to have made lens' purchase-able with plat instead of locking them to only sortie rewards in a bloated table/pool

 

but i get it, DE knows there are crazy/hardcore grinders out there who are going to have the entirety of all the 5 focuses filled/maxed in a few weeks, and they would like to slow that pace down some [i dont blame them here either, cuz that same group would hyper-grind then complain that once they were finished that there's now nothing to do in the game...] but there has got to be some better ways of doing this ; its clear that DE wanted focus to be different than syndicates, but the syndicate system was iterated on several times and is in a good place now, they could have taken/used some of that knowledge with focus, instead of repeating a lot of the same mistakes

 

personally i like the enhanced suite of nightmare mutators v2 that sorties have, even tho the forced sniper one was pretty brutal considering that even post-buff, snipers are the worst weapon to deal with a horde of infested while trying to defend pathetically weak extractors that dont scale while the enemies creep into the lvl 100's ; but i also found the 20 min surv incredibly boring, and while the 20 wave def was a bit longer, it was more engaging/interesting imho, considering that sorties alread start at a much higher starting lvl, probably just going for 15 mins or 15 waves would be better, just scale the enemy lvls up a bit more in those case if need be, or spawn more 'heavy' or 'special' units for instance [ie scorpions, shield grineer, swarm moas, ancients, engineer corpus, railgun moas, etc]

 

it would be an interesting twist on the sortie reward table if there was a system in place to prevent repeat rewards, at least to some degree, this could possibly let someone who didnt miss a single day get one of each reward, but of course each reward would still be decided by RNG, so u could possibly get the legendary core on the last day if it was the last thing that u rolled, and of course this gives room that not everyone will get a reward every day, thus ensuring that the rewards stay still valuable {table might need to be adjusted in this case} ; or possibly just a system that prevents immediate repeats, ie u cannot receive the same reward on adjacent days, but after that its back to RNG as usual, this at least seems a bit more 'fair' considering the current list of rewards

 

ironically i think the current moon tileset with the sentients and the sorties being like nightmare 2.0 are a LOT more interesting as 'higher-tier' content than the current ingame 'trials' , i really wish that DE would take the more interesting and engaging aspects of the moon puzzle/tests and the more difficult enemies and scenarios presented in the sorties and make the current trials more like that and future trials as well ; currently the trials revolve around inane puzzle mechanics that have basically no grounding in the ingame world [why would the grineer have stupid pads all over the place to open doors and turn off shorted/exposed circuits? how/why would those pads drain warframe's void energy? whats up with the infested spores things in the jordas trial?]

 

bottom line, glad that DE continues to try to improve the scope/breadth of ingame content, but clearly some of these systems still need some more iterations before they are going to be in a 'good' spot, much like arghwing, fine idea on paper, but ingame the execution still leaves a LOT to be desired

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First and foremost: REMOVE GREATER BP FROM THE REWARD TABLE.

 

It's basically shoving your middle finger into the player's face who gets this drop. can't use it without more lenses, can't trade it, and (most importantly) it can be obtained from the market. it's like getting detonite ampules from the daily tribute system. no one wants it. no one.

 

Regarding the actual missions themselves: I think they're pretty awesome. Not excessively difficult, but definitely requires a little bit of thought about what kit you are going to bring. The mechanical limitation of weapon choice can really make some missions interesting that wouldn't have been before. sniper only excavation against infested? much more challenging than just chopping them all to bits with swords and calling it a day. even the duration of the extraction after the hotfix wasn't too bad. I read some posts about people not being offered extraction when they got to 1500, but that sounds like it's probably a bug (and thus will get fixed in time, I hope). the spy mission was well done - it forced me to approach the vaults a bit more carefully than I normally would, and I felt a lot more pressure when working the puzzles. disclaimer on that bit: I never, under any circumstances, use ciphers to solve the puzzles automatically. I can, however, understand that people who are used to using them might be put off that it suddenly isn't an option. isn't this the same as how the puzzles in raids work? I'm pretty sure there's a precedent for blocking ciphers somewhere, though I can't recall where at the moment. maybe there should be a note on such missions to let players know ahead of time?

 

Regarding the rewards: my first line bears repeating. Remove the market items from the drop table. no one wants greater lens bps as their reward. if they want them, they will go buy them FROM THE MARKET for CREDITS. this is basically like having credit bundles drop as the reward, but less useful. why would you even do this? who thought this was a good idea? fire that person. I'm not serious, don't fire anyone, you guys are great - but seriously you really need to think these things through before you go all in. Just remove the greater lens bps from the drop table. my every other complaint with the reward table pales in comparison to this one.

 

Other criticism of the current reward system: duplicate drops are annoying. it isn't a huge deal since everything is tradable, but still might merit some additional consideration. I hear some people mention making certain drops only drop once per season per player. I think a better way of solving this (which has also been mentioned and would require some substantial work to get functional) would be to roll 3-4 rewards and let the player choose. this would help players feel less at the mercy of the Random Number God, and is honestly a really great way of handling loot for any sort of endgame type content, especially where the number of completions allowed is limited so strictly.

 

Final thought: why don't we get a chance to fight the boss? if it isn't, that should be a possible 3rd mission that can show up.

 

To summarize:

-remove the greater lens bps from the reward table

-mission balance and modifiers are pretty good

-add an indicator to show that ciphers are disabled

-remove the greater lens bps from the reward table

-consider ways to deal with duplicate drops

-remove the greater lens bps from the reward table

-let us fight the boss

-remove the greater lens bps from the reward table

-remove the greater lens bps from the reward table

 
Thanks for reading. Other than the thing that I'm not going to repeat again, sorties are awesome so far.

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I fully agree with the above posters on the following points:

 

- Remove items that can be bought for credits from the loot table

 

- Either prevent repeated rewards in one season, or have some way to mitigate the lottery-like RNG (Maybe give the player a choice between a list of 3-4 randomly chosen rewards?)

 

- If regular fusion cores are included in the loot table, at least have them be maxed rare cores.

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When, after the first 3 Sorties, I received a Madurai lens I cannot even use, I decided immediately that Sorties are simply not worth either the time nor the effort. Organizing a group takes a not insignificant amount of time. And running the tedious, bullet sponge laden missions - and three a

 

No Thanks. IF anything, this more puts me off playing the game than it does encourage me to play.

 

 

Butt what I meant was there is a guaranteed weapon reward for playing 10 missions and playing all gets legendary core. Rng levels -1

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SONNOVA... 25 bloody fusion cores!

 

You guys marked my account after my last comment didn't ya?

*Steve walks into room with coffee mug in hand*

Steve: "So, there's this guy called TANKER_06 who said something about the fusion cores in Sortie rewards? And something about putting my mug... my face that is, not my coffee mug, wearing a troll face mask?"

GM Team: "Yeah, we have since marked his account to receive 25 fusion cores next sortie he does, along with the picture."

Random &#!: "Hey, how about we do that... and NOT add a picture? Huh, huh? That would be even better!"

*Laughter ensues*

Steve: "Alright, do it, it will be a blast!"

 

As a side note, the Earth Exterminate Mission with Energy Reduction Condition was child's play compared to the Spy mission before. Went through the Spy mission so many times because each time, there was at least one player who trip alarms for a living. 

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1. If it's in the market = it should not drop in game.

2. Either let me choose my reward or do not reward me with duplicates.

3. If I already have a gun don't give me parts for that gun. In this case Karak Wraith.

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I really love the Sorties! They are like mini-raids and daily events! They give some frames like Limbo a better chance to shine sometimes and really reward players with a broad arsenal. 

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