Glaive Charge Time For Throwing

[Taurondir]

I'm just going to repeat myself because I'm worried of being lost in the clutter.

 

I use the Glaive as a Primary weapon. I had not even settled on a usable secondary until I read about the Sonicor. I basically have a whole theme going with Excalibur, his Proto skin, and the Glaive, also skinned. I managed to get >50K kills on it, it took some time, considering the random hours I put into the game with it.

 

My ability to kill with a Glaive is (was) focused on indirect bouncing it into groups and exploding it while remaining out of sight or keeping on the move. The "mechanic" we have now locks me in place for close to 3 seconds which does unhealthy things like draw a lot of bullets, and severely mess with my timing, as ~3 seconds is a LONG time, and units will move to a new ZIP code.

 

I can't sound like an old Synoid Gammacor user with "put it back to what it was" because it was never an OP weapon to start with, it just worked well enough for me for Star Chart work and basic Void, and I was happy with that, but under the current system of only being able to be thrown charged, it literally "broke" the way I played it.

 

I have no problems moving to a new weapon if I have to, I will be disappointed though. The only thing that needs to be done is to allow a "partial" throw to be done, so it fires "uncharged", while leaving the full animation for "charged" throws, allowing greater damage at the cost of a wind-up time penalty.

 

Right now, if you don't let the whole "wind up" animation actually finish and instead let go of the button early, it cancels the whole thing. We just need THAT part changed.

[TheVeiledScion]

I'm just going to repeat myself because I'm worried of being lost in the clutter.

I use the Glaive as a Primary weapon. I had not even settled on a usable secondary until I read about the Sonicor. I basically have a whole theme going with Excalibur, his Proto skin, and the Glaive, also skinned. I managed to get >50K kills on it, it took some time, considering the random hours I put into the game with it.

[snip]

Right now, if you don't let the whole "wind up" animation actually finish and instead let go of the button early, it cancels the whole thing. We just need THAT part changed.

Same here. My other issue with the new changes is with the way the glaive throws as well. The glaive now throws from the left side, but I use the over right-shoulder perspective, so it messes up the aiming.

I think the glaive (and other throwing weapons) should go back to the pre-U18 mechanics for quick throw and full melee, but I do think they could use a charged throw using the new animations, with some adjustments:

1) Make charged throw a different key/button (reload would work). This way, the quick and equipped throw mechanics would still be in place.

2) Give charged throw limited Navigator functions. A) With the current full charge time, by the time you throw, the target has moved, making the attack pointless. Giving thrown weapons this function would allow you to target after the fact, and more than make up for the excessive charge time. B) A charged throw function makes more sense for these weapons than a heavy attack function. Furthermore, controlling the trajectory, even for a limited time, also fits with the OG glaive from Dark Sector. C) Restricting the time in which you can control the trajectory keeps the weapon from becoming OP, while also keeping the mechanic from making Ivara's ability less important.

[Taurondir]

One point you reminded me of that I forgot is that the "auto targeting" that they added to the Glaive is actually worse for the way I play.

 

It's extremely frustrating aiming it an an exact point in space, and seeing it angle away somewhere else, ie, aim it above a group of enemies, and it instead angles down and hits the one at the edge of the group. I specifically wanted to fly over the entire group to explode it, and now I have to aim it much higher to get the same result. It's not helpful to me.

 

I don't mind it aiming for enemies after the first bounce, but in mid air? It makes me a sad panda.

[Noctere]

I really wish they would reverse the change on this.  The glaive used to be my favorite and used to be nice to throw in a pinch from the hip.  Now it feels underpowered as a main melee weapon, very slugish as a ranged weapon and it doesn't really fill any niche between many other superior melee choices.

[Leonix13]

Glaive weapons still broke, and no ackowlagement from DE on it ether.

[TheVeiledScion]

Glaive weapons still broke, and no ackowlagement from DE on it ether.

 

Steve acknowledged it Saturday on Twitter in response to someone's question. It wasn't clear though whether or not it would be addressed this week or next.

[Terrornaut]

I've almost wondered if they don't want us using throws/thrown weapons as much with what changes they've been doing since the very oldest of throw mechanics.  They only got worse with the stances, and apparently now with u18.  They've very effectively managed to kill the feel of a whole weapon class.  They were never op or abuseable (well, I did a lot of crazy things with a kestrel, but as it is now there is just so much CC to go around), but DE doesn't seem to want them in a great useable place.

 

I don't think anyone wants a damage boost, we just want to be able to throw the thing.  We can whip out rocket launchers, 8 foot swords, vault about 30 feet before we can pull out a three pound object and let it go from our hands.

 

The fact that DE communicates so little with us on their changes and work isn't great either.  Sure, they'll tell us about upcoming systems in their dev streams, but with no kind of transparency in their patch notes, it just doesn't feel like a good situation.  If you trust and stand behind your own logic well enough to put it upon millions of players, what's the problem with explaining that logic?

[Noctere]

Still waiting for a fix.  Nothing announced in the change log.  R.I.P. thrown weapons    :-(    

[3tomatoes]

As you can see, Glaive is significantly faster than U18, but still slower than pre-U18. Redeemer still the same as U18.

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

It looks like you have to attack first. I hate that.

Also, is anyone having trouble doing the "channel detonation" trick with the Glaive Prime?

No because no on in the their right mind would unsheathe their glaive.

[SeEnCreaTive]

Oh gosh I've posted on so many of these threads. Kestral is my favorite. High spin attack damage, and throwing ability is litterally perfect.

I don't like how fast they move now, my kestral before U18 had a 80% chance of coming back, the other 20% was it disappearing or getting stuck half way in my arm. (Before they did what ever they did a few months before U18, it would never have issues. Then they broke it) Until the "bug fix" they implemented kicked in. It would still disappear, but now you didn't have to die to get it to come back. It would just suddenly a pear and you catch it, usually 20 or so seconds later. Not cool

Now it's almost every freaking time. So after you wait the charge time, and throw it, you have to wait even longer for it to come back.

It feels much more scripted then just your warframe throwing a boomerang. It now charges, then pretty much gets fired out of a cannon. Leading the target was part of the fun.

I won't talk about charge time for now.

The half swing before charge was brutal. Idk why it still hasnt been fixed. Which for me, I never used my ketral as primary, and when it was holstered it would charge right away, which was fine. Except if I wanted to have some fun, and actually unholster it, then it would do the half swing thing, then charge.

Redeemer was exact opposite. When holster ed it would half swing then charge, when in full use, it would be fine. Which wasn't cool. Again I didn't use it as primary.

It shouldn't do it either way, and in my opinion is a simple fix. But then again I'm no coder.

I now resort to my Bo P. Decent range, high spin attack damage.

Edited December 20, 2015 by SeEnCreaTive

[MisterKebabo]

Can you atleast make it not perform the utterly useless attack animation before you can throw it?

I mean the throwing animation is already slow enough we don't need it to perform an even slower quick attack before it...

Please FIX the Glaive!

[AhkNemet]

Same here. My other issue with the new changes is with the way the glaive throws as well. The glaive now throws from the left side, but I use the over right-shoulder perspective, so it messes up the aiming.

 

I've been upset for a while with the changes they made to thrown melee.  I loved the completely different style of weapon where it could leave your hand and return to you and you weren't tied to being up close to your enemy if you only wanted to use melee. I know this thread is a teency bit old, but I didn't find a newer one.

 

I used to use glaive prime before cerata was released and switched to that instead. I would go around scanning, and when I was done, I could throw my cerata and kill the target I had scanned. It had good damage, good accuracy.. I could get head shots most of the time.

Now however, it throws it to the wrong shoulder so my aim is wildly inaccurate, it's impossible to aim at all, sometimes it doesn't even throw, you just stand there like some slack jawed doofus while the bullets zing in, and the worst part of all, is that when it does leave your hand it vanishes. You see damage numbers if you're lucky, but you can't track its flight.

 

If I wanted to pretend I was throwing something and imagining that it actually hit something, I would go and mime throwing a frisbee -.-

 

It used to be a really edgey, niche weapon that was fun to use.. now its lost all functionality and purpose. If I have to kill anything seriously with it, I'm better off bringing something with some real smash power for that close quarters combat, not a broken co-dependent frisbee (because it sticks to your arm or hand and never wants to leave your side).

 

I really keep hoping they will fix this soon, so that the glaive and other thrown melee are playable again cos I really miss using mine.

[(PSN)AlviseVenice]

Bump

 

My favorite weapon is now useless, fix it ASAP !

[HAYABU5A]

hope this hasnt been forgotten about or swept under the rug

would really love to use glaives again (with a fast enough throw "charge" to use comfortably in conjunction with other weapons)

[SeEnCreaTive]

They've fixed it now, the charge + half swing tends to be very close to what it was pre-u18. (If you compare full fury Pre-u18, with full fury Post u18). I'm guessing no fury mod is a different story. With how math works with the swing and charge time. (Read below for explanation. I always ran with full fury, even before u18

 

 

The half swing really makes things super smooth feeling, (now that its not crippling) and can make for satisfiing kills, a kill on the half swing, with a solid kill on the throw. I haven't tried a glaive yet.

 

Step forward can be annoying in some situations, but I don't notice it anymore. I find the biggest hurtle is avoiding objects to hit guys.  It throws literally where it's thrown from. Which makes sense, but makes it hard to get hits from behind objects

 

 

 

 

 

Explanation using non-real numbers for examples. If before u18, the charge time was 1.5 seconds, and you reduced it by 50% with fury, that makes it .75 sec. Lets say now with u18 the charge and half-swing is 2.5 seconds, reduce it by half with fury, that's 1.25 sec. So the difference between them without fury mod is 1 whole second, with the fury mod, the difference between them is only .5 sec.  So fury really does mitigate charge time. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by SeEnCreaTive

[3tomatoes]

This has since long been fixed.

 

[Icebreccer]

It's far from fixed. There are numerous issues with the current Glaive throwing that I have explained over here:

Quote

Have been trying to use the Kestrel again for few days. I just simply can't enjoy using it like I did back in the days.

Here are the main issues with the throw. The initial swing slows down the throwing too much, it was much faster and lot more convenient to throw before. The initial swing causes your frame to take a step forward which can make you fall of ledges or generally just disturb your aiming. The animation with the throw is a little bit off as the point of throwing causes the throws not go where you are aiming (causes frequent self damage or even suicides with Power Throw equipped).

The awful recoil and the camera shake while throwing the glaive weapons is just way excessive, it has one of the biggest recoils in the game and makes using the glaive bothersome and annoying (it's a throwing weapon and causes more recoil than the explosive weapons?).

The best solution as I see is to return the completely working throwing system we had before U18 to the glaive weapons when you are using them "off-hand". And then keep the current animation + swing (without the mandatory forward step and horrible screen shakes/recoils) when using the weapons "on-hand". That way you can please the throwing fans as well as the people who like to go full/mixed melee with it.

Here is a clip of the old pre U18 throwing WITHOUT Fury mod (are people implying that I have to waste yet another precious mod slot to get it closer to pre U18 throwing?):

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Judqment8

[HAYABU5A]

2 hours ago, Judqment8 said:

It's far from fixed. There are numerous issues with the current Glaive throwing that I have explained over here:

Here is a clip of the old pre U18 throwing WITHOUT Fury mod (are people implying that I have to waste yet another precious mod slot to get it closer to pre U18 throwing?):

 

yeah it definitely has not been fixed, just got speed up a little but its usability is a shadow of its former self 

just watching the two videos you can see how much better and smoother the old glaive throw is 

classic case of: if it aint broke, dont fix it 

what i would give to revert to the old throw..  

[Dobermann92]

It is usable now at least, I've done couple of Raids with blesstrin and I have no problem using glaive, but a boost would be nice though.

[HAYABU5A]

lets clear one thing up its not just about charge time, yes it is alot faster than when the charge changes first rolled out but its not smooth and fluid like the old throw 

the pre-swing before the throw and eye busting screen shake that gives you a migraine headache is what kills it

animation wise maybe the idea was to throw the glaive around infront of the body and catch it in the air for a reverse throw it just to look fancy but it doesnt make any sense, a warrior would just pull back and throw the weapon quickly and with as much power as possible like the original animation

the extra movement is a waste of time, feels clunky and thematically incorrect, and there is absolutely no reason for the screen to shake 

unless thrown melee was so OP and was ruining the balance of the game that it had to be made as unwieldy and awkward to use as possible lol 

[3thereal]

Considering you mostly use the Glaive for throwing. Here are the issues:

1. Additional swing time pre-throw

2. Screen shake with the pre-throw

3. Accuracy with the right-hand throw is off

4. Melee damage is weak compared to other melee types <- least of people worries but worth mentioning.

[Icebreccer]

Dark Sector would turn in its grave if it would see how this game handles the Glaive weapons.

[HAYABU5A]

3 hours ago, 3thereal said:

Considering you mostly use the Glaive for throwing. Here are the issues:

1. Additional swing time pre-throw

2. Screen shake with the pre-throw

3. Accuracy with the right-hand throw is off

4. Melee damage is weak compared to other melee types <- least of people worries but worth mentioning.

yep this pretty much concisely sums up the problems with glaives in order of importance too 

the funny thing about it all they worked perfectly great before the new charge introductions (except for melee dmg i guess)