Has Warframe Been Ruined By The Update 18 Reveal? [Spoiler City.]

[Cidolfus]

Remember DE can do what they want here, Thye could suprise us both and say Warframes are infact alive. They could make the Orokin return if they wanted.

 

I guess we'll have to see in future quests.

 

They never said the orokin wouldn't return, and they have yet to state warframes weren't alive. All we know is that the Tenno control the Warframes, and that they are separate in body but not in mind. Most of the people crying foul are kneejerking themselves off cliffs without knowing fully what's going on.

 

There are ALOT of secrets we don't know the answer to.

[Aimop95]

But things have changed, We built this up for several years to have everything brushed away under a mat being told. 'Lolno you are wrong get over it'.

Built up what? Your personal headcanon? There was nothing definitive up until update 17 and 18. Prior to these updates, one could have easily argued the "Tenno are energy beings" or "Tenno are burned humans wearing suits", and no one would have been able to have the better case.

[Latiac]

There are ALOT of secrets we don't know the answer to.

 

And that's where my hope lies. We don't know these things. So right now none of us are wrong.

[Cancer_Cowboy]

Pretty much what OP said. I was having fun being some sort of unknown technocyte monstrosity guided by a grey-morality voice in my head telling me to kill off the population of a single solar system for dubious reasons (AKA AIDS infested space jihadist). But now... eh. The tone of the game just took a turn that's left me whiplashed and the old personality of the game gone. I mean, I get that DE wanted to make fun of their playerbase but they didn't have to make it part of the game's lore. Now its just a TPS with a anime storyline that I've read many times before. 

[GhostLacuna]

Not only have you successfully missed every single point the quest has made, but you also continue to be oblivious to the conclusions people have drawn here. I can only applaud such foolhardiness.

 

The brat is centuries old, has committed a genocide and murdered hundreds of thousands more. If you can't see past the exterior that's your problem.

 

Oh the pointless drivel that you could see miles away as soon as you took a look at embers bio?

 

The done to death trope of young innocent child soldier face overwhelming threat?

 

The one that got old after watching akira the first time on VHS? the trope that only got worst since the first evangelion was released?

 

that trope?

 

Lets face it i have seen better lore and stories on that trope in evangelion fan fiction. Guess the fan fiction writers beat DE with a few years there.

 

I knew the lore and all about the children way before the quest even started. It was tedious and bland. The only thing that stood out was that i suddenly had to face two stalkers since he swapped places so fast it was as if i had faced of against two of them at the same time.

 

I dont care if the head canon has the warframes as remote controlled bodies. that was already my canon as well.

 

What i dislike is that i am no longer the operator.

 

Sure i might have played a few 100 hours of various role playing games in my years but frankly for me to identify with a kid that looks about 10 which whom i have had no chance to build a rapport with?

 

Its not gonna happen.

 

That has ruined the game for me nothing else.

[Omnimorph]

Built up what? Your personal headcanon? There was nothing definitive up until update 17 and 18. Prior to these updates, one could have easily argued the "Tenno are energy beings" or "Tenno are burned humans wearing suits", and no one would have been able to have the better case.

 

In fact those were the only two options that were hotly contested for years on the forums. 

 

NOBODY guessed the truth (at least nobody that I can recall), or if anybody guessed it, I don't recall seeing it ever put in a post that people argued over.  (I passingly thought of VR-like control when trying to make sense of the "tenno are energy" theory - it was always the most obvious way of reconciling the Tenno's ability to operate many different suits.  But I never put it forward as a live option, and it never occurred to me that we were still the Zariman kids.)

 

DE made chumps of us all.  In the most glorious, clever way :)

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Omnimorph]

 

What i dislike is that i am no longer the operator.

 

 

Ah, I think I finally understand what you and a few others have been saying in this area.

 

It's like, if you'd seen this game advertised as "child soldiers controlling golem avatars as per Avatar", you maybe wouldn't have played the game at all, because you wouldn't have been interested in playing dress up with a 10 year old child character, etc., etc. 

 

Or, you might have been interested in the gameplay per se, but you would never have actually gotten into the roleplaying aspect.

 

Is something like that what you mean? 

 

So essentially, DE's being slow getting the lore going, gave you elbow room to grow your own headcanon, which would never in a million years have involved roleplaying a child soldier type of thing.  And now that it's been revealed that you've been playing a child soldier all along, it's a turn off?

 

I can understand that - I don't agree with it (I'm not as familiar with anime so I'm not bored with the concept, it seems powerful and emotionally gripping to me - I actually teared up a bit when Lotus put me in the chair :) ), but I can understand it must have been psychologically jarring.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph

[(XBOX)The Greedy Milk]

i can see where you're coming from.

kinda sucks that we're just this kid playing puppet master in real life and the fact that all the personalities people have made for all these frames to just be destroyed in under a minute is definetly a kick in the crotch, but onestly in my opinion im glad de finally told us what these warframes are, machines, puppets...

 

or quite literally, frames used as vessels for war (if you catch my drift)

 

but, when u18 drops for us, i aint going to treat this game any different from what it was before the second dream. now i guess seeing and hearing the operators stupid quotes would drive anyone insane (depending how frequent it is) , i think it would've been better if:

 

1. Was still masked.

2. Didn't speak.

3. Still kept some mystery.

 

We know what the tenno are, but hearing the operator go "wah life is crap, i was left alone wah, lotus you're pretty nice looking for a sentient (sunglasses down)" just wasn't interesting FOR ME, lore stand point its fantastic, but i would've liked to see the operator go back in his orokin cell/reactor/catalyst looking chair and just chill, let the warframes do the work and lets treat you, mr. operator as some one important, but instead of being pushed in our faces and just let it be a side character. then i think we can still retain some personality towards each frame, but the only difference being that we know what we are

 

Of, course my opinion, and there's more than likely some contradictory statements and are soo open to criticism for being dumb, but ill roll with it

Edited December 7, 2015 by (XB1)Fusion GRX

[StabbyTentacles]

Not only have you successfully missed every single point the quest has made, but you also continue to be oblivious to the conclusions people have drawn here. I can only applaud such foolhardiness.

 

The brat is centuries old, has committed a genocide and murdered hundreds of thousands more. If you can't see past the exterior that's your problem.

Not only have you successfully missed every single point people are saying when they reject this operator… Allow me to assist you in seeing what's apparently passing over your head.

 

The brat is centuries old…

This is fiction/narrative, saying it’s canon even DE’s, is irrelevant and extraneous to the issue. Exempli gratia: All operators are space kitties with muffin bodies, DE say so! So you’re fine with that? Simply cause it’s being said now? Eventhough DE said we were tenno in the warframes before we were space kitties with muffin bodies. Yeah I see how unreasonable rejecting this fiction/narrative is now, good talk.

 

Me/player’s in the warframe/their warframe is/was the certainty.

Having the operator breaks the in-game immersion for many. Certainty.

Edited December 7, 2015 by StabbyTentacles

[OfPowerOfWant]

Surrogates, Avatars, Voltron, maybe even the Matrix, but Super Saiyan I'm just not seeing.

 

A story where the Warframe is a living individual that levels up seems more like a Super Saiyan to me.

 

This story seems the most logical IMO and the one that has a possibility to actually happen in the next century.

[StabbyTentacles]

Ah, I think I finally understand what you and a few others have been saying in this area.

 

It's like, if you'd seen this game advertised as "child soldiers controlling golem avatars as per Avatar", you maybe wouldn't have played the game at all, because you wouldn't have been interested in playing dress up with a 10 year old child character, etc., etc. 

 

Or, you might have been interested in the gameplay per se, but you would never have actually gotten into the roleplaying aspect.

 

Is something like that what you mean? 

 

So essentially, DE's being slow getting the lore going, gave you elbow room to grow your own headcanon, which would never in a million years have involved roleplaying a child soldier type of thing.  And now that it's been revealed that you've been playing a child soldier all along, it's a turn off?

 

I can understand that - I don't agree with it (I'm not as familiar with anime so I'm not bored with the concept, it seems powerful and emotionally gripping to me - I actually teared up a bit when Lotus put me in the chair :) ), but I can understand it must have been psychologically jarring.

Ah, I think I finally understand what you and a few others have been saying in this area. So essentially, DE's changing the lore, gave you elbow room to accept your own headcanon. Which they not only gave you but was in the game until now…

 

 

...would never in a million years have involved roleplaying a child soldier type of thing.  And now that it's been revealed that you've been playing a child soldier all along, it's a turn off?  

I can understand that - I don't agree with it (I'm not as familiar with anime so I'm not bored with the concept, it seems powerful and emotionally gripping to me - I actually teared up a bit when Lotus put me in the chair :) ), but I can understand it must have been psychologically jarring.

 

Ah, I think I finally understand what you and a few others have been saying in this area. So essentially,You are not acquainted with the it was all a dream trope, or the child soldier trope, or the Super Wizard’s from the moon tropes…

 

 

Yeah not loving all those hackneyed generic, mind blowing… yeah it was psychologically jarring.  

[StabbyTentacles]

i can see where you're coming from.

kinda sucks that we're just this kid playing puppet master in real life and the fact that all the personalities people have made for all these frames to just be destroyed in under a minute is definetly a kick in the crotch, but onestly in my opinion im glad de finally told us what these warframes are, machines, puppets...

 

or quite literally, frames used as vessels for war (if you catch my drift)

 

but, when u18 drops for us, i aint going to treat this game any different from what it was before the second dream. now i guess seeing and hearing the operators stupid quotes would drive anyone insane (depending how frequent it is) , i think it would've been better if:

 

1. Was still masked.

2. Didn't speak.

3. Still kept some mystery.

 

We know what the tenno are, but hearing the operator go "wah life is crap, i was left alone wah, lotus you're pretty nice looking for a sentient (sunglasses down)" just wasn't interesting FOR ME, lore stand point its fantastic, but i would've liked to see the operator go back in his orokin cell/reactor/catalyst looking chair and just chill, let the warframes do the work and lets treat you, mr. operator as some one important, but instead of being pushed in our faces and just let it be a side character. then i think we can still retain some personality towards each frame, but the only difference being that we know what we are

 

Of, course my opinion, and there's more than likely some contradictory statements and are soo open to criticism for being dumb, but ill roll with it

1. Was still masked.

2. Didn't speak.

3. Still kept some mystery.

+1

[Acos]

It seems as though our Warframes are actually Symbiotes, evidenced by your Warframe ripping a greatsword out of their gut in the quest.

 

So in fact, your Warframes may actually have a personality of their own, which is merged with the Operator's own personality while they're operating it. Take note of the fact that the Operators, for all this time, have believed that they were actually the Warframes themselves.

 

There's a reason it's called "Affinity" and not Experience Points. A very deliberate reason. 

[Omnimorph]

Surrogates, Avatars, Voltron, maybe even the Matrix, but Super Saiyan I'm just not seeing.

 

A story where the Warframe is a living individual that levels up seems more like a Super Saiyan to me.

 

This story seems the most logical IMO and the one that has a possibility to actually happen in the next century.

 

Yeah, it's amazing how fast direct brain control of computers is progressing - the kind of thing you'd have thought would have been one of the slowest, most mysterious things to progress.

 

Once that's in place, it's game on - we'll probably spend a fair bit of time in avatars, and also there'll be the thing  the other way round (mind simulations using real-world avatars). 

 

The weirdness will continue until morale improves.

[GhostLacuna]

Ah, I think I finally understand what you and a few others have been saying in this area.

 

It's like, if you'd seen this game advertised as "child soldiers controlling golem avatars as per Avatar", you maybe wouldn't have played the game at all, because you wouldn't have been interested in playing dress up with a 10 year old child avatar, etc., etc. 

 

Or, you might have been interested in the gameplay per se, but you would never have actually gotten into the roleplaying aspect.

 

Is something like that what you mean? 

 

So essentially, DE's being slow getting the lore going, gave you elbow room to grow your own headcanon, which would never in a million years have involved roleplaying a child soldier type of thing.  And now that it's been revealed that you've been playing a child soldier all along, it's a turn off?

 

I can understand that - I don't agree with it (I'm not as familiar with anime so I'm not bored with the concept, it seems powerful and emotionally gripping to me - I actually teared up a bit when Lotus put me in the chair :) ), but I can understand it must have been psychologically jarring.

 

I saw the game as me the player being the operator.

 

the one who took up the jobs, talked to lotus, ordis and the syndicates.

 

That is i was the one remote controlling the warframes. Picking the right tool for the job at hand.

 

If i saw "child soldiers controlling golem avatars as per Avatar" as an ad for the game i would have marked it as a no play title in an instant.

 

I am old enough that if i would have taken that path in my life i could have children around the same 10-12 year old age as the "operator" have in the game now.

 

Writing that just makes the whole idea even worst then it was before.

 

I might have been fine with roleplaying as a child if i where still a teenager. because then those pre pubertal years are still somewhat fresh in your memories.

 

Now i even have a hard time roleplaying a teenager. 

 

So no matter how hard DE tries to get me to care for this child, no matter how hard they try to get me to identify myself as the child i cant.

 

So now i have a crippled kid in the back of the liset that i didnt know would be forced upon me.

 

Parts of me are pissed, furious and let down because while before there where a connection between me as a operator and my warframes. 

Now suddenly there is another actor an npc if you like that stands between me and the warframes.

 

I lost the direct connection to the warframes and now i must act via proxy.

 

Parts of me are sad to see yet another game i liked turn into yet another bland humans good others bad trope.

 

Parts of me feel apathy towards the entire coop part of warframe because i know other players will break my immersion in the game the instance they press 5. Experience has shown that if anything humanity as a whole is more like a virus then the infested will ever be.

 

As such i can expect people to go yolo im fireing ma lazor at least 3 times in a separate mission. The whole focus lens clusterfuck will only lead to people trying to get all the kills and then the downward spiral into KS will start greater then before in warframe.

 

As for anime well its not actually doing much that western animation has not also dabbled into. It just that the asian countries understand that animation is not only for kids. So they have had time to dive into things western animators have not been keen to explore. Not to say that some of them have not done so also but overall the asian countries has been the frontrunners there.

 

For 3 examples of games that handle emotions well i would look no further then to the moon, valiant hearts and this war of mine.

 

Of course they are a bit more heavy on the emotional side in a way warframe will never be.

 

EDIT: for those of you who are confused about all this talk about tropes i recommend that you check out tv tropes and its overview of how tropes are used.

Edited December 7, 2015 by GhostLacuna

[Omnimorph]

Ah, I think I finally understand what you and a few others have been saying in this area. So essentially, DE's changing the lore, gave you elbow room to accept your own headcanon. Which they not only gave you but was in the game until now…

 

 

 

There's nothing in that that's inconsistent with the lore we have now.

[Platerboi]

dont think its remote, i think its more of a mind meld than anything, warframes are manufactured so we couldnt expect them to be separate entities. they are kinda like self aware biotech. but without the mind meld they are just rouge weapons like when you fought chroma, basically taming the frame, if i had to compare it to anything it would be Pokemon lol. i know that sounds silly  but whatever. i thought thought the story was clever, with the lotus and all. from what i gather lotus hid a bunch of kids in on the moon in the void as they were being destroyed by the sentients and when they awake one by one she used then to bring balance to the universe. seems legit.

[PrismaFlexTape]

Speak for yourself, I actually like it. Although it would have also been cool is we got a reveal where the tenno unmasks and shows a face, this works just as well. The way they actually carried it out was excellent, and the music was chilling. Really solidifies the Lotus' meaning as space mom.

[Omnimorph]

Now i even have a hard time roleplaying a teenager. 

 

Yeah, I'm getting it now.  I also understand some of your world-weary cynicism re. some of the effects it might have on gameplay.

 

I just totally don't think about it the same way.  For me, roleplay is interesting because it allows me to "be" things I am not in real life - e.g. I never make in-game avatars that look like me, in fact I feel almost physically sick at the thought of doing so, it's like tedious and unnecessary duplication of something that already exists - a waste of an opportunity, as it were.  It's always something that pops into my head to create, like a character in a story. (I was never so happy in a videogame as when I played City of Heroes and could create countless weird and whacky superheroes with their own looks, powers, biogs, etc.)

 

I roleplay to be someone else, somewhere else, and "childlike demigod piloting avatars" is about as far away from what I am as it could possibly be, so it's no problem.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph

[StabbyTentacles]

crippled kid in the back forced upon me.    -tick

let down  -tick

An npc stands between me and the warframes.   -tick

Lost the direct connection to the warframes and now i must act via proxy.  -tick

Parts of me are sad to see yet another game i liked turn into yet another bland humans good others bad trope.   -tick

Parts of me feel apathy towards the entire coop part of warframe because i know other players will break my immersion in the game the instance they press 5.  -tick-tick

The whole focus lens clusterfuck will only lead to people trying to get all the kills and then the downward spiral into KS will start greater than before in warframe.  -tick

 

:[ -tick

[Latiac]

Parts of me feel apathy towards the entire coop part of warframe because i know other players will break my immersion in the game the instance they press 5.  -tick-tick

 

 

This, This for certain, even though I want to follow my own headcannon it's pretty hard to do when people use 5.

[StabbyTentacles]

There's nothing in that that's inconsistent with the lore we have now.

accept now...

 

crippled kid in the back forced upon me.    -tick

let down  -tick

An npc stands between me and the warframes.   -tick

Lost the direct connection to the warframes and now i must act via proxy.  -tick

Parts of me are sad to see yet another game i liked turn into yet another bland humans good others bad trope.   -tick

Parts of me feel apathy towards the entire coop part of warframe because i know other players will break my immersion in the game the instance they press 5.  -tick-tick

The whole focus lens clusterfuck will only lead to people trying to get all the kills and then the downward spiral into KS will start greater than before in warframe.  -tick

[SilentMobius]

In fact those were the only two options that were hotly contested for years on the forums. 

 

NOBODY guessed the truth (at least nobody that I can recall), or if anybody guessed it, I don't recall seeing it ever put in a post that people argued over.  (I passingly thought of VR-like control when trying to make sense of the "tenno are energy" theory - it was always the most obvious way of reconciling the Tenno's ability to operate many different suits.  But I never put it forward as a live option, and it never occurred to me that we were still the Zariman kids.)

 

DE made chumps of us all.  In the most glorious, clever way :)

 

I'm afraid not.

 

Firstly there were many variations discussed:

 

* Physical Tenno, one-per-Warframe, in the Warframe

* Physical Tenno, one per account, in the Warframe

* Physical Tenno, one per account, controlling Warframes via purely technological consciousness transfer.

* Energy Tenno, one-per-account, Tenno is only ever energy

* Energy Tenno, one-per-account, Tenno body resides elsewhere, Warframes are remote controlled.

 

I was unconvinced about any theory that concluded with remote Tenno because of the numerous mentions of discreet blood/bones/corpses etc discovered within the Warframes by our enemies, also the dramatic tension from the Intro, Patient Zero and the Inference that when they Warframe "dies" (Limbo Theorem, Hidden Messages) the Operator dies with it.

 

Also the consistent description of the Warframe as "Exo-armour" all over the website and promotional material.

 

The only reason that remote-Tenno wasn't more popular is that there was a lot of content that precluded it. Content that DE is going to have to make a statement about now the reveal is out.

Edited December 7, 2015 by SilentMobius

[StabbyTentacles]

I'm afraid not.

 

Firstly there were many variations discussed:

 

* Physical Tenno, one-per-Warframe, in the Warframe

* Physical Tenno, one per account, in the Warframe

* Physical Tenno, one per account, controlling Warframes via purely technological consciousness transfer.

* Energy Tenno, one-per-account, Tenno is only ever energy

* Energy Tenno, one-per-account, Tenno body resides elsewhere, Warframes are remote controlled.

 

I was unconvinced about any theory that concluded with remote Tenno because of the numerous mentions of discreet blood/bones/corpses etc discovered within the Warframes by our enemies, also the dramatic tension from the Intro, Patient Zero and the Inference that when they Warframe "dies" (Limbo Theorem, Hidden Messages) the Operator dies with it.

 

The only reason that remote-Tenno wasn't more popular is that there was a lot of content that precluded it. Content that DE is going to have to make a statement about now the reveal is out.

Thank you.

[Blatantfool]

Fixed your text color in the OP.