Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Vargras

[Spoilers] The Truth Behind The Second Dream

Recommended Posts

I'm sure some of you have already reasonably put together what the full extent of the story is, but in case you haven't, here it all is.

Some of this information has been verified by Rebecca, and has been posted with permission. The rest is speculation.

Obviously, massive spoilers.

---

Confirmed: The Second Dream, and Warframe's overarching story, have always been strongly hinted at via the Codex entries, both for the Prime frames and from Simaris. But none have been stronger than Ember Prime's Codex entry.

You see, Margulis, the woman we hear in The Second Dream, was injured in the same way as the woman from Ember Prime's Codex, the one who was burned. We can find evidence of this in both the Ember Prime Codex lines, as well as specific voice lines.

From Ember Prime's Codex:
"There was a gasp as the light hit her face. Her right eye was bright and blinking, but her left was a greasy slit. Her skin had been burned moon-white. Her mouth was a sagging gash without lips or expression. Her military beret was pulled snug over a scarred and hairless scalp."

Kaleen bowed her head, a tear welling in her sightless eye. "They were children. They were afraid. They needed comfort."

From The Second Dream Lines:
"How could you trust them? After what they did to you?"

"Love sees not with the eyes, but with the mind. I just need more time."

Both Kaleen and Margulis likely suffered severe burns from their dealings with the children aboard the Zariman, though this is confirmed with Kaleen and speculation with Margulis. Though some folks will state that they must've been burned with fire, as it was Ember Prime's Codex, it's much more likely that they were burned by raw Void energy.

We also know from The Second Dream that Margulis felt very strongly about the children aboard the Zariman, even when no one else was willing to show them mercy, to the point that it eventually cost her dearly -- her life. Margulis would be found guilty by the Orokin High Council, and was executed, with her data and research repurposed by the Orokin so that the children from the Zariman could be repurposed as combatants against the Sentients. The initial warframes were the rejects disposed of on Lua.

However, this wasn't the end of Margulis. She would later return from the dead, as a Sentient. Natah was created and purposely patterned after Margulis, with the express intent of turning the children and warframes against their creators, and culminating in the destruction of the only beings that could ever truly harm the Sentients.

 

Speculation: This plan was only partially successful, as the Orokin Empire was indeed brought to ruin, but Natah rebelled and abandoned the plan, likely due to Margulis' own personality on which she had hers derived from. With this, Natah went into hiding and assumed a new name, Lotus, after Margulis' favorite flower (which you may discover if you selected "...she was brilliant." during the end questionnaire). The remaining children were placed into stasis and hidden away in a place that no one, not even Natah, could reach.

The Tenno, as they would later be called, had their name derived from their very origin -- the Zariman Ten-Zero. Zero is often pronounced as "oh", resulting in "Ten-oh", or "Tenno".

The ultimate fate of Ballas, another individual heard within The Second Dream (and presumably Margulis' spouse or significant other), as well as the origin of the Stalker, are still unknown and up for speculation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is legit... I manage to think about the same thing as you did... but still running around in my head but a... How can our frame moved without us controlling it? (in the scene where our frame splits the 'War' sword)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is legit... I manage to think about the same thing as you did... but still running around in my head but a... How can our frame moved without us controlling it? (in the scene where our frame splits the 'War' sword)

A very good question indeed, and definitely something up for speculation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaleen Margulis Natah Lotus, that's quite a anthology :)

She might soon catch the iron-blooded hot-blooded cold-blooded Kiss-Shot Acerola-Orion Heart-Under-Blade Oshino Shinobu XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaleen Margulis Natah Lotus, that's quite a anthology :)

She might soon catch the iron-blooded hot-blooded cold-blooded Kiss-Shot Acerola-Orion Heart-Under-Blade Oshino Shinobu XD

 

wutt? .-.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must admit, I suspected that it was possible that Margulis had been working on a way to give the Zariman survivors a way to rejoin society. And yet the Orokin cast it out...for what? Ideology? 

 

I must also offer...The Crewman Synthesis. There is actually our first mentioning of Ballas...which leads me to wonder if the woman killed at the start was Margulis herself. So at present...we at least know that Ballas was an Executor. And ultimately, involved with the Sentient 'commission'.

 

As for the link between Lotus and Margulis, it's interesting. Definitely figured something...but as with many things, it's the specifics.

 

Margulis deserved better...and in a way, I guess the 'Lotus is Kahleen!' theory was somewhat accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have question about it.

Between tenno and warframe.

1st : Tenno using his/her mind to control warframe,But that a problem,The child who have the power of fire attack margulis,And the end orokin seal all the child and give them a false body.then what? these child can use all kind element? With element of water control fire warframe? 

2nd :Tenno is using mind to transfer his/her ability to the warframe or already attach on the frame?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have question about it.

Between tenno and warframe.

1st : Tenno using his/her mind to control warframe,But that a problem,The child who have the power of fire attack margulis,And the end orokin seal all the child and give them a false body.then what? these child can use all kind element? With element of water control fire warframe? 

2nd :Tenno is using mind to transfer his/her ability to the warframe or already attach on the frame?

1. It's not fire. Think of a prism, in which white light is passed through it, and it's refracted into colors of all kinds. It was raw, pure Void energy that burned Margulis, and the warframes act as a prism of sorts, filtering that same Void energy into the various powers.

 

2. Abilities are already attached to the individual warframes. The Tenno is simply controlling it and using it as a conduit for their energy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is legit... I manage to think about the same thing as you did... but still running around in my head but a... How can our frame moved without us controlling it? (in the scene where our frame splits the 'War' sword)

lotus happen ? she appear after anyway

 

other reason prolly cause the connection between warframe and operator was stronger in the ship than in orokin , that seat we have to recharge is amplify further the link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very good question indeed, and definitely something up for speculation.

 

I think the Warframes themselves are alive, a different being, but the Tenno, the Operator can tap into them (Focus ability for example)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Warframes themselves are alive, a different being, but the Tenno, the Operator can tap into them (Focus ability for example)

 

I'm really sure they are alive at this point, I don't know what they are, but they are alive.  Ballas called them soulless golems.  Lotus calls them empty vessels.  But the Rhino Prime codex shows these Golems have drive and awareness. And they can move on their own to protect the Tenno. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to see a Warframe uncontrolled.

Evidently happened in the Rhino Prime Codex. It basically murdered everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting theory..Looks like just right after one mystery has been solved,another one begun to stir.

Not really a theory at all, given that one of the staff members (and the voice of Lotus and Margulis) verified it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. It's not fire. Think of a prism, in which white light is passed through it, and it's refracted into colors of all kinds. It was raw, pure Void energy that burned Margulis, and the warframes act as a prism of sorts, filtering that same Void energy into the various powers.

 

2. Abilities are already attached to the individual warframes. The Tenno is simply controlling it and using it as a conduit for their energy.

You said tenno is use the abilities that already attached on frames,But how about hayden tenno,He using his own power to perform,Not from the warframes,That makes contradiction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, we do know things about the Stalker!

 

Warning to those who will read this : here be spoilers too. Here be theories unproven as well. Don't just take my word for all of this.

 

When Hunhow speaks to the Stalker at the very end of the quest, he reveals a question the Stalker asks himself ("But you're asking yourself "Was I one of these wretched things?""), and answers it! Hunhow berates the Stalker by saying : "...you know the answer. You still hate them...you still hate...yourself."

 

Which, if combined by what  Natah/Lotus(/Margulis? Considering the theories flying around, I just don't know.) tells us earlier during the quest, allows us to piece up the following answer: Stalker is just a Tenno like us. In the moon, he found answers that drove him to complete madness. He's just a broken person like us, but unlike us he had no one here to help him.He's just another victim of Orokin maliciousness, in the end. Which kind of makes me sad.

 

That said, I have a theory coming from this : considering his reaction to the fact of how he reacted to the possibility of taking us down for good, Stalker always KNEW he was not killing us. He took it not as an assassination, but a form of punishment. Pain inflicted, but since Warframes are just sympathetic puppets (in the sense of 'who  share pain'), no killing. So...Your opinion on this, people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am unconvinced that an army grunt tasked with investigating derelict ships suddenly became a genius geneticist. Especially with the apparent genetic caste system the Orokin had.

You say Rebecca confirmed this? Including the assertion that Kaleen is Margulis?

I agree with much of the rest, also to note is that Balas is the one who ordered the execution of "The greatest scholar of genetics who ever lived" and also the one who colluded with Perintol to get the Sentients created. Potentially he was directly involved in the Sentients creation,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You said tenno is use the abilities that already attached on frames,But how about hayden tenno,He using his own power to perform,Not from the warframes,That makes contradiction.

Hayden Tenno from the published version of Dark Sector is not part of the Warframe story. Dark Sector is a corruption of the SciFi game that DE wanted to make and explicitly not a prequel to Warframe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep seeing Tenno talking to the Warframe...

seems like. those.... Operator (Intel- Com) communicating to an agent (on ground).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

about the warframe moving on it's own, the answer is on the rhino prime lore, where proto rhino got out and startes smashing stuff, but stopped after reaching the room where the zariman childs where, wich probably means that the warframes have their own will on them, likely they are born from alterations on the infestation, since many bosses tell us "we are your flesh" that wouldn't be out of question, + since we were linked so much time with our warframes it wouldnt be weird for them to have absorbed some of the traits of the operator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You said tenno is use the abilities that already attached on frames,But how about hayden tenno,He using his own power to perform,Not from the warframes,That makes contradiction.

Warframe is a reimagining of Dark Sector, not a sequel. There is no Hayden Tenno.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very good question indeed, and definitely something up for speculation.

 

I see 2 possibilities.

 

1) The frames are conscious themselves but operate only on an instinctual level. Your frame in the last cut-scene wanted to protect his operator and broke War.

 

2) Lotus has basic control over warframes too. We do get picked up by her after the Stalker is gone, so she was already on the ship during the last cut-scene. It might have been her who controlled our frame. As a Sentient she would have had the knowledge that breaking the sword would get rid of Hunhow. Something our animal-like warframe probably didn't know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...