[Spoilers] The Truth Behind The Second Dream

[-KoreanPotato-]

This is legit... I manage to think about the same thing as you did... but still running around in my head but a... How can our frame moved without us controlling it? (in the scene where our frame splits the 'War' sword)

THE POWER OF LOVE! *rock music plays in background*

[JDWhaler]

This theory in a whole is interesting and makes sense, except for this part below:

The Tenno, as they would later be called, had their name derived from their very origin -- the Zariman Ten-Zero. Zero is often pronounced as "oh", resulting in "Ten-oh", or "Tenno".

If your theory is correct, the entire Tenno faction must've somehow kept aboard the Ten Zero unless a few were on the ship when they left and expanded the faction. However, we assume most of the Tenno aboard the Ten-Zero were put into the same 'Second Dream' like the character we play as, therefore meaning that the Tenno couldn't have all come from the ship.

 

Then again, Tenno may have been born in other locations (Since if i'm right, the Tenno aboard Ten-0 were originally humans which became Tenno) but instead others may have fled the Orokin.

[Coryphaus]

How many Tenno are there, and were all of them placed in the Orokin moon? After Stalker destabilized the moon, how many managed to be saved, and how?

 

If all of them are taken out of their second dream, does this also mean that the Stalker will finally gain self-awareness?

[Omnimorph]

How many Tenno are there, and were all of them placed in the Orokin moon? After Stalker destabilized the moon, how many managed to be saved, and how?

 

If all of them are taken out of their second dream, does this also mean that the Stalker will finally gain self-awareness?

 

Yeah this is interesting. 

 

We clearly saw several "VR pods" in the water fountain, the one "our" Tenno was in was one of several.  Either there are only like about a dozen Tenno in existence, or that "reservoir pool" was one of many and there are hundreds, if not thousands, of us childlike superbeings "dreaming" in our VR pods, elsewhere in the Orokin installations on the Moon.

 

It's also not clear what precisely the Stalker is yet - is he one of "us", i.e. just another one of us childlike superbeings, but with a grudge?  Or is he a Warframe that's become sentient as its Tenno went mad upon discovering the truth (or something like that)?

 

Still lots of interesting questions for lore-hounds to pore over.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Coryphaus]

Yeah this is interesting. 

 

We clearly saw several "VR pods" in the water fountain, the one "our" Tenno was in was one of several.  Either there are only like about a dozen Tenno in existence, or that "reservoir pool" was one of many and there are hundreds, if not thousands, of us childlike superbeings "dreaming" in our VR pods, elsewhere in the Orokin installations on the Moon.

 

It's also not clear what precisely the Stalker is yet - is he one of "us", i.e. just another one of us childlike superbeings, but with a grudge?  Or is he a Warframe that's become sentient as its Tenno went mad upon discovering the truth (or something like that)?

 

Still lots of interesting questions for lore-hounds to pore over.

 

Stalker's lore says something that he remained awake while the Tenno slept... meaning that the Tenno were only reactivated recently.

 

Is it possible that not all Tenno managed to be placed into the moon, and that the cryopods we frequently defend actually contain Tenno in stasis and not just warframes?

 

Meaning that the Stalker saw his world turn into ruin before he understood it, and wandered alone for an eternity in a desolate dream in a pod isolated from the rest of his brethren? D:

[MikaKyubi]

Apologies if I seem to be stirring up a hive of matters here, but there is some contradictions to be addressed here.

 

I've read it said here that Hayden Tenno, from Dark Sector, has no connection at this time to Warframe.  I would have to disagree at least in some degree, as there is, confirmed, Tennobet writing on MULTIPLE warframes and other places referencing the name Hayden Tenno.  As I haven't seen these graphics expunged from the game, nor any mention of them being considered refuted/retconned, I must assume they're still canon.

 

My question is that if Hayden Tenno is, in Warframe, NOT the Hayden Tenno from Dark Sector, instead something else, whom may he have been?  My first and most obvious thought is that he is the first of the Zariman children to successfully use Transference and link to / inhabit a Warframe.  Still, something like this should be properly addressed, or else the inscriptions of his name are meaningless, more so for lines like "Hayden Tenno I Owe You One."

 

Is it possible that a Zariman child named Hayden Tenno, inhabitant of the first Excaliber prototype, may very well have suffered through (and possibly assisted in refining the link to) the first experiments into this field?

 

My words are, needless to say, mere conjecture, but nonetheless, I feel some addressing on this matter would aid in clarification of the lore.

 

With thanks to all, and especially to Digital Extremes for their wonderful universe we get to play in,

 

Mika Kyubi

 

[SilentMobius]

Apologies if I seem to be stirring up a hive of matters here, but there is some contradictions to be addressed here.

I've read it said here that Hayden Tenno, from Dark Sector, has no connection at this time to Warframe. I would have to disagree at least in some degree, as there is, confirmed, Tennobet writing on MULTIPLE warframes and other places referencing the name Hayden Tenno. As I haven't seen these graphics expunged from the game, nor any mention of them being considered refuted/retconned, I must assume they're still canon.

My question is that if Hayden Tenno is, in Warframe, NOT the Hayden Tenno from Dark Sector, instead something else, whom may he have been?

He could be anyone, he could be the "player character" from the Sci-Fi game called "Dark Sector" that DE never found a publisher for. He could be the first Zariman child or the first Tenno to rebel.

The only important point is that none of the published version of Dark Sector is to be assumed as having happened in the Warframe universe. DE can pick and chose any element, name or mesh from the unpublished game or the published one and reuse it in a completely different context as they all share a common inspiration. But we shouldn't assume that because X has turned up that Y from Dark Sector is relevant/true

Until we get more information in-game I don't think we can sensibly make any guesses about any individual named "Hayden Tenno"

Especially given the name "Tenno" now canonically comes from the name of the "Zariman Ten-Zero"

Edited December 8, 2015 by SilentMobius

[LightstealKnight]

I suspect that the Sentients are termed this way because they are a form of A.I.

So it is possible that Natah is Margolis.

Where did you make this connection from?

[Zarozian]

How many Tenno are there, and were all of them placed in the Orokin moon? After Stalker destabilized the moon, how many managed to be saved, and how?

 

If all of them are taken out of their second dream, does this also mean that the Stalker will finally gain self-awareness?

Stalker may be one of those children who were sent over to the Tau system.

[Pavelord]

Quoting my self from one of the other threads.

 

"I think what is inside the warframes, is something like a homunculus, a living body without a mind (or soul), the eyeless things Alad finds when he disect the suits, clearly with some infested tissue, I don't think it has a personality of its own it would be swallowed by the infested hive mind, but why does it refuse them. Because of the Margoolis implant found in the Ominous loading screen and that is why Margoolis mention this line in the quest "this will stop the voices from taking hold"."

[321agemo]

That said, I have a theory coming from this : considering his reaction to the fact of how he reacted to the possibility of taking us down for good, Stalker always KNEW he was not killing us. He took it not as an assassination, but a form of punishment. Pain inflicted, but since Warframes are just sympathetic puppets (in the sense of 'who  share pain'), no killing. So...Your opinion on this, people?

 

*cough cough* Dismembered Loki Head *cough*

Edited December 8, 2015 by 321agemo

[Omnimorph]

Quoting my self from one of the other threads.

 

"I think what is inside the warframes, is something like a homunculus, a living body without a mind (or soul), the eyeless things Alad finds when he disect the suits, clearly with some infested tissue, I don't think it has a personality of its own it would be swallowed by the infested hive mind, but why does it refuse them. Because of the Margoolis implant found in the Ominous loading screen and that is why Margoolis mention this line in the quest "this will stop the voices from taking hold"."

 

Oh, I like that theory.  Previously I thought the Margulis implant was just something implanted in the Tenno, but I like the idea that it's something in the warframe.

 

So what you're saying is that without the Margulis implant in the warframe, a Tenno piloting that warframe would start to feel the pull of the Infested hive mind, via the Infested/golem organic part of the warframe, right?

[MikaKyubi]

He could be anyone, he could be the "player character" from the Sci-Fi game called "Dark Sector" that DE never found a publisher for. He could be the first Zariman child or the first Tenno to rebel.

The only important point is that none of the published version of Dark Sector is to be assumed as having happened in the Warframe universe. DE can pick and chose any element, name or mesh from the unpublished game or the published one and reuse it in a completely different context as they all share a common inspiration. But we shouldn't assume that because X has turned up that Y from Dark Sector is relevant/true

Until we get more information in-game I don't think we can sensibly make any guesses about any individual named "Hayden Tenno"

Especially given the name "Tenno" now canonically comes from the name of the "Zariman Ten-Zero"

 

I completely agree here.  I am not myself willing to make assumptions, merely seeking clarification and further information from the devs.  I'm deeply curious as to this information.

[Pavelord]

Oh, I like that theory.  Previously I thought the Margulis implant was just something implanted in the Tenno, but I like the idea that it's something in the warframe.

 

So what you're saying is that without the Margulis implant in the warframe, a Tenno piloting that warframe would start to feel the pull of the Infested hive mind, via the Infested/golem organic part of the warframe, right?

exactly, so it makes me worry the ominous load screen hints, at someone trying to break the link.

[Omnimorph]

exactly, so it makes me worry the ominous load screen hints, at someone trying to break the link.

 

Hmm, so what we have is roughly a situation like this:-

 

1.  Margulis, casting around for a way to help the kids control their abilities and not be executed as dangerous, first of all notices that they have some control and calm while they're dreaming.

 

2.  Then, with that part of the job done, she looks around for a way to help them integrate more with life, and she notices the Orokin experiments that are going on elsewhere, where they're trying to create golems (part Infested/technocyte-derived tech, part metal and plastic) to fight the Sentients.

 

3.  She has the idea that maybe the kids could pilot these golems in their dream state, and live some kind of semi-normal life with control of their abilities.

 

4.  It's tried, but it's discovered that the Tenno, while piloting one of these golems, is liable to "hear the voices", which is the pull of the hive mind calling to the infested flesh part of the golem.

 

5.  She invents the Margulis implant which neutralizes the signals from the Infested hive mind in the warframe's infested part.

 

Something like that anyway.  It's not quite clear at which point the Rhino codex would fit into this, and/or at what point Margulis is executed (before or after the Rhino codex) or where "Davis" fits in (a scientist formerly on Margulis team, or someone who was aware of Margulis research, now dormant, and has the bright idea to try it out again?)

[Pavelord]

I got the idea Margulis died, before she could see the tenno don the warframes, I think the conversation in the quest hints that transference was based off Margulis research and not done entirely by she.  And I think is likely that Davis was the one doing experiments on Lua with the group of "rejects" sent there, as mentioned by Margulis' husband

[Omnimorph]

I got the idea Margulis died, before she could see the tenno don the warframes, I think the conversation in the quest hints that transference was based off Margulis research and not done entirely by she.  And I think is likely that Davis was the one doing experiments on Lua with the group of "rejects" sent there, as mentioned by Margulis' husband

 

So I guess in that case the "Margulis implant" isn't something that was invented by her, but something invented by the Lua scientists based on principles she developed.

 

But how would she know that the Infested flesh part of golems would bring disturbing voices if the golem experimentation happens after she dies?

[Pavelord]

So I guess in that case the "Margulis implant" isn't something that was invented by her, but something invented by the Lua scientists based on principles she developed.

 

But how would she know that the Infested flesh part of golems would bring disturbing voices if the golem experimentation happens after she dies?

I'm thinking she planned for surrogate bodies not armors, the infestation is the part that make this body able to contain their power, the warframes are probably what came of Lua, by the time of Davis the war had long started and obviously the infestation has been used and backfired, they probably had plenty of subjects to study.

[Blakrana]

Implication is that the Tenno-Warframe scenario didn't come around till after Margulis was executed, at least as I'm seeing the information. Looking over Rhino Prime's Codex, it feels almost like the Tenno had just been abandoned on Lua along with other 'failed projects'. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Cue Davis perhaps encountering the work of Margulis and wondering what'd happen putting the two things into proximity. I mean, giving the Tenno some form of surrogate body just to return to society at large seemed to be more fitting for Margulis, rather than some kind of weapon/soldier.

 

Although it'd be rather chilling if Margulis was still working on her efforts at the time, and when Davis found this thing out, her resistance to making them into weapons for the empire is what got her executed instead.

 

Either way we look at it, rather unpleasant state of affairs.

[Omnimorph]

Implication is that the Tenno-Warframe scenario didn't come around till after Margulis was executed, at least as I'm seeing the information. Looking over Rhino Prime's Codex, it feels almost like the Tenno had just been abandoned on Lua along with other 'failed projects'. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Cue Davis perhaps encountering the work of Margulis and wondering what'd happen putting the two things into proximity. I mean, giving the Tenno some form of surrogate body just to return to society at large seemed to be more fitting for Margulis, rather than some kind of weapon/soldier.

 

Although it'd be rather chilling if Margulis was still working on her efforts at the time, and when Davis found this thing out, her resistance to making them into weapons for the empire is what got her executed instead.

 

Either way we look at it, rather unpleasant state of affairs.

 

Yeah, good stuff, this all feels about right.

[Kaokasalis]

I doubt Kaleen and Margulis is the same person. Kaleen is a inspector and she wore a berret which could indicate some kind of militaristic purpose or law enforcement. Margulis is heavily implied to be a researcher so i just dont see these two names as the same person.

[LGear]

Is there an actual link or statement we can get showing Rebecca giving her approval or endorsement to the veracity of this speculation?

Edited December 12, 2015 by LGear

[arch111]

Implication is that the Tenno-Warframe scenario didn't come around till after Margulis was executed, at least as I'm seeing the information. Looking over Rhino Prime's Codex, it feels almost like the Tenno had just been abandoned on Lua along with other 'failed projects'. Out of sight, out of mind.

Cue Davis perhaps encountering the work of Margulis and wondering what'd happen putting the two things into proximity. I mean, giving the Tenno some form of surrogate body just to return to society at large seemed to be more fitting for Margulis, rather than some kind of weapon/soldier.

Although it'd be rather chilling if Margulis was still working on her efforts at the time, and when Davis found this thing out, her resistance to making them into weapons for the empire is what got her executed instead.

Either way we look at it, rather unpleasant state of affairs.

This sound pretty good. Still very sketchy where in the Timeline Davis was though.

One thought: what if what Davis did was to turn off the Margolis device. Tge Voices came not from Infested, but from the sleeping demons: the children.

The voices made people insane is what I read from the Echoes, and the protorhino was able to connect with them, and calmed down.

[Sybracus]

More theories.

 

The first warframes were worn, not just remotely piloted, by a select few Tenno, the rest left in stasis. Hayden Tenno (Warframe version, not darkSector) would have been the first.  They would have grown up, refined their powers and become the badasses that their frames are based off of.  Then they made the switch to remote operations (i.e. Transference) after losing too many of them in the field (Mirage, Limbo, possibly Atlas and Chroma, etc) and started mass producing the warframes.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Sibericus

[AdachiAme]

I also have an add on to this, the current Warframes are often called puppets on strings, but have developed individual "Ghosts" as it were in a limited sense. Hints to this that moment in between pod transference  the operator needed to be in direct contact with the frame to control it.  Near the end, it was the Frame that broke War on their own, not being controlled by the operator. Thus the term Ghost in the Shell.  Or in otherwords the Frames may contain a soul of their own, could also explain the Stalker in a more extreme case.