[Spoilers] The Truth Behind The Second Dream

[Ibro156]

Symbiosis would possibly work for one-warframe-per-tenno but do you think they could pull off telling us that we can:

1. Build a Warframe from parts

2. Keep it on ice until the moment we need it to fight

3. Take physical control of it during the fight, risking only the physicality of the sapient Warframe

Then repeat that 20+ time for all the Warframes then replace some of them with Primes. You can't push that as symbioses, It's parasitism, with sapient creatures it's even worse.

Unless the Warframes are non-sapient, non-sentient then we are in a whole mess plot-wise.

The Warframe might not be on stasis. They could be in the two rooms of the orbitor. Hell they could be playing black jack for all we know!

[Pavelord]

 

Altough in the quest, the tenno mentioned that they felt that "otherness" and embraced it, as if they know it subconsciously, but the matrix idea sounds a good example of the immersion while in the frames.

[SilentMobius]

The Warframe might not be on stasis. They could be in the two rooms of the orbitor. Hell they could be playing black jack for all we know!

 

If a Warframe moving itself is a huge reveal the way people are suggesting it's unlikely they are motive during down time.

 

Either way, if Warframes are sapient, they wait doing nothing until we call them up from a terminal, take over their bodies and throw them at the enemy. It's nasty nasty stuff.

Edited December 20, 2015 by SilentMobius

[404Cygni]

The Warframe might not be on stasis. They could be in the two rooms of the orbitor. Hell they could be playing black jack for all we know!

You know what? We need someone to draw that. The frames playing cards, the operator arriving, and then... "What."

[Burnthesteak87]

She was created to resemble margulis, but stalker's beef is not with lotus, but with the tenno. And tenno are reason why margulis was executed.

Is there some documentation stating so or it's fanmade speculation?

[UnskilledNinja]

I think there are going to be some things that simply will not be explained due to the fact that it is a game and requires game elements.  For example, being able to revive a "dead" frame four times in a 24-hour period.  This is why there will be some contradictions with say Alad-V and Valkyr.  Yes Valkyr's story is about her rage from the torture she received but at the same time Alad V tells us in The Second Dream that what he saw underneath didn't make any sense.  My best guess is the echoes of the operator theory.

 

I do not think the Warframes are or were people.  I believe they were created and in some form utilize the infested virus.  Though they do not require having souls by virtue of the virus the frames are infused with a mutated form of life and awareness. This may not be a perfect example so don't read into it too much, but think of a Jellyfish.  It doesn't have a brain or organs and is just a mindless creature.  Which leads to my next thought.

 

The Warframes may not have a soul but they do have a natural instinct. Because they are derived from the infested they naturally inherit the infested behaviors and instincts.  I think the theory behind the Morghulis implant to stop the voices makes sense here.  Whether it is implanted in the Warframe to stop the call to the infested link and/or an implant in the Tenno operator to protect them from the infested link. I tend to lean more towards the latter since Morghulis says "This will stop the voices from taking hold. You will have to dream, my angel."  I did notice that the operator had cybernetic implants when customizing their features.  This could just be for the transference but may be the Morghulis implant.

 

Following this the theory about the Rhino Prime codex tells me that the Warframe unit lost its link and started following it's natural "infested" tendencies and went on a killing rampage. Also this would explain why the Warframe was able to move and break the War on its own. The idea that the echoes of the operator could have tempered the Warframe's instinctive tendencies for self-preservation.  There is also theory-B where it was Lotus's presence on the Liset that was able to activate the Warframe and break the sword.  Remember at the beginning of the game Lotus is able to surge your Warframe to jump-start you.  Even when she moves the Tenno into the pod it is by energy, not physical touch.

 

One other footnote.  Someone asked about a trailer rescuing Mag.  I think a lot of that takes place before The Second Dream so instead of frames rescuing frames the Tenno believed they were the Warframes and saving one another.

 

As for the Stalker I am still working on it but part of me likes not knowing. I don't think the Stalker is Ballas as that one doesn't really add up since he was a high executor on the Orokin council. We know from the codex that he was one of the low guardians. There is a possibility he was part of the rejects that were sent to Lua. After The Second Dream I think that he has a realization that he too is in a dream state and the frame he controls may not really be his own. Notice the way he holds up his hand and looks at it in the cut scenes.  Instead I think he is still in a pod that has somehow been cut off from the rest. This also explains how he was able to live so long. So when Lotus put them all to sleep he was left to wander the solar system alone and most importantly without the guide of the Lotus.  This allowed the operator to be left to his own thoughts which were dreadful and filled with hate and despair. He became a rogue and for lack of a better term basically went to the dark side of the force.

 

Either way I've really enjoyed the possibilities of the story over the past couple of years and even know.  I'm sure we'll all see how it ends eventually.

Edited December 21, 2015 by UnskilledNinja

[Ibro156]

My theory for the Stalker's operator is that the operator is one normal children on Zerimen 10-0. The being confused and scared kids when becoming a Tenno. Everyone was frighten of them, causing them to be rejected. But Margulius took care of them, making her to act like the mother. It's possible that Stalker's operator was really attach to Margulius. That would make sense as a human you love your siblings, friends and parents. But when the Oriken killed Margulius. Making the children felt left alone again. Then after few years, Natah comes along possibly having some traces of Margulius. During that time the Tenno created several founding schools. In the Stalker's codex, it said he was a low ranking guardian. It wouldn't surprise me if he hadn't had his own Warframe back then.

When the empire fell. After Natah use the Tenno she sent them a sleep into crystasis. But stalker didn't for some reason. during that time stalker probably found out that the Lotus was working for the sentiments, also probably learning she was made out of Margulius. This is enough reason to make him go mad, and hunt down the Lotus.

Knowing this, I wouldn't blame the stalker. As he had a S#&$ty life as a kid, being used, betrayled and left alone. This is good enough reason he trust no one. It would also make sense has he would isolate himself and blames on the Lotus and the Tenno that had him suffer.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Ibro156

[UrielColtan]

It's pretty lame sounding to me and stalker is obsolete as an imposing figure at this point.

It was better to me when he was just a low guard who developed righteous indignation after the Tenno's betrayal and survived over the millennis developing his abilities. Not a mamas boy and crappy meta joke against anyone who dares dislike this plot device.

Edited December 21, 2015 by UrielColtan

[Ibro156]

It's pretty lame sounding to me and stalker is obsolete as an imposing figure at this point.

It was better to me when he was just a low guard who developed righteous indignation after the Tenno's betrayal and survived over the millennis developing his abilities. Not a mamas boy and crappy meta joke against anyone who dares dislike this plot device.

That possible to. Remeber these are just theries for lore of the game.

[----G----]

Ballas wanted Perintol's solution to be used, despite showing the opposite during his trial.

 

Ballas = Hunhow.

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by Biomod1150

[SilentMobius]

Ballas wanted Perintol's solution to be used, despite showing the opposite during his trial.

 

Ballas = Hunhow.

 

 

Yeah. Can't you just see Ballas being all fuming at Margulis and the other Executors, she didn't listen to him and they killed her. So he pals up with Perintol and leads with:

 

"How are you designing their intelligence?"

"Oh I was going to make it simple, rigidly bound by explicit rules...."

"How about you just pattern it on me! (That way I can control them and wipe out the other executors, hue hue hue)"

"Um... ok.... guy-who-could-have-me-killed-at-any-moment"

 

Sometime later, Hunhow thinks:

"S#&$, the Orokin are such A******s, I should kill them and take over. For some reason I kinda miss having a female-like being around, who is caring and stuff... I know, I'll make one, I'll call her Natah"

Then Later:

"These Tenno are pissing me off, man I hate them for some reason. Natah! go get them to kill the Orokin and then get rid of them."

Edited January 8, 2016 by SilentMobius

[----G----]

Sometime later, Hunhow thinks:

"S#&$, the Orokin are such A******s, I should kill then and take over.

And that's when he first used a Stalker to reach his goals... Edited January 26, 2016 by Biomod1150

[Vargras]

Yeah. Can't you just see Ballas being all fuming at Margulis and the other Executors, she didn't listen to him and they killed her. So he pals up with Perintol and leads with:

 

"How are you designing their intelligence?"

"Oh I was going to make it simple, rigidly bound by explicit rules...."

"How about you just pattern it on me! (That way I can control them and wipe out the other executors, hue hue hue)"

"Um... ok.... guy-who-could-have-me-killed-at-any-moment"

 

Sometime later, Hunhow thinks:

"S#&$, the Orokin are such A******s, I should kill then and take over. For some reason I kinda miss having a female-like being around, who is caring and stuff... I know, I'll make one, I'll call her Natah"

Then Later:

"These Tenno are pissing me off, man I hate them for some reason. Natah! go get them to kill the Orokin and then get rid of them."

This makes way too much sense.

[----G----]

I want to hear more about Ballas' brother in the next quest / event though.

[Guest]

This is legit... I manage to think about the same thing as you did... but still running around in my head but a... How can our frame moved without us controlling it? (in the scene where our frame splits the 'War' sword)

 

operator (you) moved the frame, there is this scene where you move over on the floor and pull life into it again and then you carry "yourself" to the liset (in short terms)

 

as you can see the stalker dont wanna do really what he do, thats how i understand

 

but then hunhow make him angry again because of the contract, and, the same moves watching the hand (glove) happens by the operator if you look straight

 

and hunhow comments that the last pieces of him in the stalker will now take control to finish all

 

beause of the bizaar situation (operator, you or lotus) take off the sword and break the red heart off its power

 

so, very easy to understand for me

 

about all the other points i dont give much attention because a story/lore doesnt make a game for me, a games content is it what im interested on, and a more then good development according to the story

 

best is, story and game have the same content, everything else functions maybe with kids as well as not with me ^^))

 

finally i love warframe ... now im waiting for the best development ... as well as i will not wait another year

 

after the announcement (really great announcement video before a year) of the sentients i meet now how many ingame ? 3 or 4 or around like that ...

 

no further comments right now ^^)))

 

still trusting and pleased that the millions of cash which real money supporters move into warframe get balanced with the right development, i mean its time for ... (^^

[Loriwen]

My theory as to how rhino moved, is this.

 

it was a tenno operating in it, so it could be that in pain the opperator of rhino went amok. ((maybe in a dream like state) the first dream??) or a memory of pain and sorrow/ terror, this is anyones guess.

Mayby this happened in early RnD in a orokin lab.

 

 

it states no where was kind of effect, the exposure to the void energy, has had on the children,

Are the children, the crew from the zeriman??? who knows... Lotus???

 

What happened to the zariman 10-0 when it tryed to make the void jump.

What happened when it returned, and why was it all hused up by the military....

and now it has turned in to a conspiration teory XD

 

 

But still, that are questions i'd like answered :)

( i pardon for any bad writen english )

 

I hope that tenno and filosofers will will give there opinion on this, the same goes for the the DE.

just teories, maybe we can creat / help creat the tenno lore :)

 

best regards Loriwen

[Ibro156]

The one of things that had been bothering was what hunhow said to the Stalker. "But was I one of these wretched things?". Like if Stalker isn't a Tenno anymore. Or Stalker-frame has its own consciousness

Maybe am looking into to it too much (>.<)

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

well done 

 

there are some things that are a bit out of place

 

but a very good stack up of lore and connections 

[Loriwen]

Lotus confirms what happened with stalker, and was trying to protect the tenno form the same fate

 

Stalker went mad after finding out that it was a tenno..

 

hunhow saying: You still hate them.... You still hate...... yourself

[----G----]

It seems that the Void is the energy source for most of the devices Tenno use. We also see those white / grey branches everywhere in the Void, and in one of the rooms on the moon there are consoles that enable you to "communicate with the tree spirit" (or at least something close to this, my game isn't in english). When you activate them, it seems that energy starts flowing through the roots, towards the center of the room where they all gather. Could this tree be a kind of energy transmitter ? What exactly is the Void energy made of and how does it affect human beings ?

This actually raises more questions than it answers... but I love it !

[Ibro156]

Lotus confirms what happened with stalker, and was trying to protect the tenno form the same fate

Stalker went mad after finding out that it was a tenno..

hunhow saying: You still hate them.... You still hate...... yourself

Yes, I know. But he word "was", past tense. As if he killed his operator and gone rogue.

[Loriwen]

Yes, I know. But he word "was", past tense. As if he killed his operator and gone rogue.

It seems that the Void is the energy source for most of the devices Tenno use. We also see those white / grey branches everywhere in the Void, and in one of the rooms on the moon there are consoles that enable you to "communicate with the tree spirit" (or at least something close to this, my game isn't in english). When you activate them, it seems that energy starts flowing through the roots, towards the center of the room where they all gather. Could this tree be a kind of energy transmitter ? What exactly is the Void energy made of and how does it affect human beings ?

This actually raises more questions than it answers... but I love it !

Well this is all theory, at the moment.

but i personly hope that we get to know what happend that fatefull day.

And maybe get to know who created the tenno, the orokin or the sentient or mayby someone else.............

and yes i'd like to know what void energy is and where it comes from, and what kind of impact it has on living tissue.

i'd like to quote cephalon suda: I require more data

And find out who or what the stalker is

Edited January 17, 2016 by Loriwen

[(PSN)Lowk721]

Knowing this, I wouldn't blame the stalker. As he had a S#&$ty life as a kid, being used, betrayled and left alone. This is good enough reason he trust no one. It would also make sense has he would isolate himself and blames on the Lotus and the Tenno that had him suffer.

I could blame him. That would actually make me hate him more. Every Tenno had the same crappy life he had. The Tenno didn't make him suffer in that case, the Orokin did. Going by some of the dialogue some Tenno actually believe the Orokin got what was coming to them and I agree. Seems like even without Natah striking back would make sense. The orokin were jerks and responsible for allowing everything from the sentients to the Infested to occur. Yet Stalker is hunting Tenno, the ones made to clean up thier mess. Edited January 17, 2016 by (PS4)Lowk721

[(PSN)xXToastiButterXx]

I see a lot of people saying the Stalker gained Sentience by killing his operator, what if it's not in the literal sense?

The Lotus says that Stalker went mad after discovering the secret at The Reservoir, what if he mentally killed himself ala becoming a separate entity sharing the same mind, or developed a multi-personality disorder?

This would keep lore in line, Warframes getting killed or tortured actually hurt the Tenno in the Som. Link because they thought they were genuinely dying.

We have to remember, Pain, Love, anything physical or emotional, is a fabrication of the mind, for example, your brain is technically an Operator, and your body, the Warframe, you can transfer your mind time and time again, but you will still feel everything the body feels.

This discovery could've been too much for Stalkers operator to handle, and he made a huge disconnect, he mentally separated himself, donned a new persona, and shifted his anger, hatred, and trauma towards the Tenno.

[Ibro156]

I could blame him. That would actually make me hate him more. Every Tenno had the same crappy life he had. The Tenno didn't make him suffer in that case, the Orokin did. Going by some of the dialogue some Tenno actually believe the Orokin got what was coming to them and I agree. Seems like even without Natah striking back would make sense. The orokin were jerks and responsible for allowing everything from the sentients to the Infested to occur. Yet Stalker is hunting Tenno, the ones made to clean up thier mess.

Who knows. Some.might have gotten the royal treatment from the Oriken. We need more quests and lores to get what happened >.<