Artekkor Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 So, my first assumption was that Warframes are nothing but armor, robots, and they are nothing without the Tenno. However, some people on the forums pointed out few moments that question my assumption if not destroy. Now i'm really curious. What lead to my assumption: when Tenno woken up - the Warframe droped on the floor. Lifeless. Motionless. A set of armor and nothing else as it seems at first. But here is where things start to get interesting. Moment #1: Tenno "wakes up" the warframe by touching it. Warframe takes Tenno and moves him, while Tenno fights sentients off with his void powers. But how can one control 2 bodies in the same time? This is weird. Moment #2: When confrontating the Stalker on Orbiter, Warframe breaks Stalker's sword - War - in two. WARFRAME, not the Tenno. At first i though that Tenno just remote-controlled it... But the more i think about, the more i realize that there was no way Tenno did it. It was Warframe. Hunhow's surprised reaction only proofs it more. Moment #3: Tenno talk now. To themalselves, i thought at first. But... Do they? Maybe they talk to Warframe? But why would they?... What the hell is a Warframe?! It starts getting to me that Warframe is something more than just a set of armor... It's something else. And Tenno know it. Probably... Whatever it is - it lives only through energy of the Tenno and stays lifeless otherwise. It lets Tenno control it, it cooperates with the Tenno. Tenno and Warframe are separate beings, but act as one in form of some very hardcore Symbiosis. This is some Five Night At Freddy's stuff going on in here and now i'm hyped for more lore. MOAR LORE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 ROFL! "Warframes have minds" is the new "Hayden Tenno" and "Warframes are energy" moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artekkor Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 And i should remind you - we, as a Player ARE Tennon (the children). It is proof'd by us choosing answers during dialogue with Lotus. Warframes are just what we control remotely. But what exacly is the thing we control - that's a question. And Lotus said something about "the war within"... Does she knows something about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 ROFL! "Warframes have minds" is the new "Hayden Tenno" and "Warframes are energy" moment. More like Warframes have minds is the new Poly-Tenno Theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UseNet Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If i were DE I'd be insulted that Warframe was put int the same light as FNaF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloFoxx Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 well if we take Dark Sector as cannon, which I know DE says is non-canonical TECHINCALLY but that's really more due to liscensing as this game is a spiritual succesor the Excalibur Warframe (Proto-armour) formed AROUND Hayden Tenno, he did not have a Void Imprint, or special powers aside from the "Glaive". fast-forward to the age of the Orokin Empire, where children are sent into the Void, corrupted/altered/imprinted on BY the void to have powers, and project themselves onto the Warframes. We know the Warframes breathe, it is HEAVILY Implied (from Lephantis and Phorid dialogue) that the Warframes are made from the Infested Plague (another tie-in to Dark Sector where Hayden's transformation into Excal was due to the Technocyte plague) and it is also known that What Alad V saw inside the Warframes didn't make sense... my roomate has a theory based on what we know that the Warframes were made around living beings, got memory-wiped, and are controlled remotely by the Tenno as a Focus for their powers, as-in the Tenno have the potential to use the abilities of all the frames, BUT they need the warframes to channel the power through, limiting their capabilities he also theorizes the Prime warframes not only being built from superior Orokin-age materials, but having been formed around a superior host as well, such as a Tenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin-da-Reaper Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Whenever I heard Hunhow speak of the warframes as "metal puppets" I got the impression he was deriding them as cheap mediums, but evidently they are something more than that. Surrogates as they may be, in addition to requiring Transference to craft that two-being consciousness with the Tenno Operator as the source of the will and the Warframe as the practical avatar, but seeing Tenno as largely invincible because of that rather simple yet advanced method of deployment and energy distribution sounds flawed to me. From the looks of things on previous parts in the lore, Tenno CAN(most likely) be killed through their warframe being utterly destroyed, as was seemingly the case with Mirage and Limbo, as well as probably all the other warframes and their corresponding Tenno that were found and exterminated by Vor and the Tenno extermination program the Twin Queens sent forth, seeing the Lotus' agony at the notion of losing another. While killing the warframe doesn´t guarantee you´ll kill the Tenno, it seems there´s a chance it can happen through the Transference link, though the Oro seems to stave it off many times nonetheless, much to Hunhow's and the Stalker's (plus everybody else who hates us) annoyance. What we control is probably the resulting consciousness that comes from the link, while the operator is the source and still "pure child" entity that seems to be speaking with itself and the mentioned consciousness, as if still a bit like a novice, or a master relearning things. Evidently, there´s more significance to the warframes than simply being puppets made from Technocyte material. Personally, I´d like see it in the way of a new state of being that is reflected in that warframe. That "state of being", being us. Well, that´s how I see it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artekkor Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 well if we take Dark Sector as cannon, which I know DE says is non-canonical TECHINCALLY but that's really more due to liscensing as this game is a spiritual succesor the Excalibur Warframe (Proto-armour) formed AROUND Hayden Tenno, he did not have a Void Imprint, or special powers aside from the "Glaive". fast-forward to the age of the Orokin Empire, where children are sent into the Void, corrupted/altered/imprinted on BY the void to have powers, and project themselves onto the Warframes. We know the Warframes breathe, it is HEAVILY Implied (from Lephantis and Phorid dialogue) that the Warframes are made from the Infested Plague (another tie-in to Dark Sector where Hayden's transformation into Excal was due to the Technocyte plague) and it is also known that What Alad V saw inside the Warframes didn't make sense... my roomate has a theory based on what we know that the Warframes were made around living beings, got memory-wiped, and are controlled remotely by the Tenno as a Focus for their powers, as-in the Tenno have the potential to use the abilities of all the frames, BUT they need the warframes to channel the power through, limiting their capabilities he also theorizes the Prime warframes not only being built from superior Orokin-age materials, but having been formed around a superior host as well, such as a Tenno. Interesting theory. And also creepy. There is someone else inside the Warframe? Now this is REALLY feels a lot like FNAF. And on the same "this is #*($%%@ up" level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrrationalLogic Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Moment 1: The Stalker attacked the Operator and most likely severed the mindlink.This also explains the glitchy screen and the shutdown(which was well thought out IMO) of your Warframe slumped on the ground. Moment 2: From what we know of,Warframes have some sense of conciousness of their own.Take for instance Valkyr.Why does she keep howling in pain even when YOU the Operator builds her from a BLUEPRINT and your mind is certainly not broken.I have a theory on this and the various theories about the new and improved,WARFRAME https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/572583-spoiler-if-warframes/ Moment 3: ^ Edited December 7, 2015 by IrrationalLogic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mr.Meeseeks- Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Interesting theory. And also creepy. There is someone else inside the Warframe? I mean... Warframes bleed when shot without their shields up. There has to be flesh and blood in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artekkor Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I mean... Warframes bleed when shot without their shields up. There has to be flesh and blood in there. Flash and blood does not means its a sentient being. You can remove human's brain and keep his body alive. It will be alive, technically. It could've been the same for Warframes, if not for the moments that i pointed out. Edited December 7, 2015 by Artek94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrrationalLogic Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Flash and blood does not means its a sentient being. You can remove human's brain and keep his body alive. It will be alive, technically. It could've been the same for Warframes, if not for the moments that i pointed out. Exactly.They are biomechanical in nature and are not flesh and blood.Hell the blood could be used like hydraulics to the limbs and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Warframes definitely have some level of sentience. The Rhino Prime Codex entry is good proof of that. They are also made with Technocyte and there is a lot of proof for this ingame as well (Infested boss dialog, Chroma Warframe enemy under the Infested codex). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artekkor Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Warframes definitely have some level of sentience. The Rhino Prime Codex entry is good proof of that. They are also made with Technocyte and there is a lot of proof for this ingame as well (Infested boss dialog, Chroma Warframe enemy under the Infested codex).That's exactly what i'm looking for. More proofs to this theory.It also would explain Mirage', Limbo' and Valkyr's lore to some extent. The question is... How far this sentience can go? Was it Tenno inside the Limbo (without remote control) that killed himself, or was it Limbo himself, as a Warframe? Edited December 7, 2015 by Artek94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) That's exactly what i'm looking for. More proofs to this theory. It also would explain Mirage', Limbo' and Valkyr's lore to some extent. The question is... How far this sentience can go? Was it Tenno inside the Limbo (without remote control) that killed himself, or was it Limbo himself, as a Warframe? I would say their sentience is exactly the way the definition is stated - able to perceive and feel. Edited December 7, 2015 by EmptyDevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrrationalLogic Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Limbo miscalculated,screwed up and jumped into a space of time which killed him...I'd say it was both the Operator and the Warframe.Warframes do have a level of sentience.For example in one of my theories,Valkyr was tortured.The wiki says that her cries of pain break the imposing tenno silence.However as revealed in the new quest,YOU are controlling the Warframe.You certainly are not an angry tortured piece of meat.However,you still howl. I have a theory on this. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/572583-spoiler-if-warframes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Warframe is Zergling Operator is Overmind Warframe is EVA-01 Operator is Shinji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artekkor Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Warframe is Zergling Operator is Overmind Warframe is EVA-01 Operator is Shinji Evangelion one fits distrubingly well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FATEdPondera Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'll take a crack at answering some of these. Got some fan theories of my own. Moment #1: Yes, we wake up our frame by touching it. Think of it was instilling our will into it. We CAN control our primary body and the frame at the same time, but, much like writing a forum post with one hand and drinking a soda with the other, it is REALLY difficult. Especially since our void powers are split between obliterating sentients and animating the frame. Moment #2: When our frame broke War, we were currently being strangled by Stalker. We didn't have the presence of mind, or even the oxygen for that matter, to do that. But, as Alad V's experiments show, warframes can be manipulated and piloted by outside sources. Lotus saved us. Moment #3: I think we, as the operating Tenno, are just reciting our knowledge. It's been god knows how long since we talked to anyone or did anything outside of our somatic pods within the resevoir. I think we're just reacting to that lack of stimulus and reciting old knowledge to fill the void. Though, DE should have made us a little more psychotic since we're been mercilessly cutting down anything that breathes in the origin system for the past 2 years and haven't had a moral pang of decency onces. I think we'd be less "ancients are dangerous" and more "C'MERE, BUCKETHEAD! I'M GONNA RIP OUT YOUR LUNGS AND USE 'EM AS A TEA COZY!" I also think that the frames themselves are vegatative entities in and of themselves. They're made like suits of armor, but there's a biology underneath. There's blood, a heart, and a need for oxygen. This is reflected in gameplay mechanics with survival and bleed out respectively. So, it's not just a metal shell. I think warframes are assembled biological entities that are made of technocyte, the same stuff that the infested are made of. This is why no warframe looks even remotely human beyond a humanoid structure and why Phorid and Lephantis claims that the ones attacking it are "of its flesh" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Warframe is Evangelion confirmed -Neural link with Pilot checked -Can move by themselves in emergencies checked -Have AT-Field errrr Shield checked -Flesh and blood checked -May have pilot's mother soul in it ........ Edited December 7, 2015 by Volinus7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) -May have pilot's mother soul in it ........ Nah, the rebelling robot race that's trying to wipe out humanity made a skin-job that looks like our mother (Margulis) in order to get us to help them. So a little bit of BSG. Edited December 7, 2015 by Gelkor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad0wWatcher Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) So, my first assumption was that Warframes are nothing but armor, robots, and they are nothing without the Tenno. However, some people on the forums pointed out few moments that question my assumption if not destroy. Now i'm really curious. What lead to my assumption: when Tenno woken up - the Warframe droped on the floor. Lifeless. Motionless. A set of armor and nothing else as it seems at first. But here is where things start to get interesting. Moment #1: Tenno "wakes up" the warframe by touching it. Warframe takes Tenno and moves him, while Tenno fights sentients off with his void powers. But how can one control 2 bodies in the same time? This is weird. Moment #2: When confrontating the Stalker on Orbiter, Warframe breaks Stalker's sword - War - in two. WARFRAME, not the Tenno. At first i though that Tenno just remote-controlled it... But the more i think about, the more i realize that there was no way Tenno did it. It was Warframe. Hunhow's surprised reaction only proofs it more. Moment #3: Tenno talk now. To themalselves, i thought at first. But... Do they? Maybe they talk to Warframe? But why would they?... What the hell is a Warframe?! It starts getting to me that Warframe is something more than just a set of armor... It's something else. And Tenno know it. Probably... Whatever it is - it lives only through energy of the Tenno and stays lifeless otherwise. It lets Tenno control it, it cooperates with the Tenno. Tenno and Warframe are separate beings, but act as one in form of some very hardcore Symbiosis. This is some Five Night At Freddy's stuff going on in here and now i'm hyped for more lore. MOAR LORE. Please don't mention FNAF...that was a terrifying night... On topic. You just blew my mind, i honestly just took it as i saw it but...ah this is why i wish i could rewatch the scenes! Cause i know i missed a few things. My mind was already being blown after every sentence spoken. having the option to rewatch it would be nice. With that i mean not just the intro scene with the stalker, but all the scenes. Edited December 7, 2015 by Shad0wWatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omnimorph Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Again, if you reference Avatar (which is the absolutely closest analogy from the movies to what's going on here), the Navi avatar is a biological being, and while it's mindless it certainly has the capability of having a mind (which the pilot "fills" with his own mind). The Warframes are a bit like the Navi avatars, only with more metal, more plastics and more nanotechnology (Infested flesh, tech derived from technocyte tech). So it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they can have some kind of rudimentary sense of aliveness and consciousness, and maybe even sense of loyalty to their "pilot" if the two have been intimate for a long time - maybe like some kind of "ghost" of the Tenno's mind can still "inhabit" the Warframe's mental machinery even when the Tenno isn't there. As to the War-breaking moment. It's kind of ambiguous, and I think intentionally. The most obvious thing is that the Tenno who's being strangled ("you") momentarily regains control of the Warframe remotely. But we see that control of Warframes has needed either the full VR pod (either the golden one on the moon, or the new one in the Orbiter), or direct touch (earlier in the quest when the Tenno struggles to touch the Warframe and control it). Another possibility is that it's the Lotus who momentarily controlled the Warframe (she must be somewhere nearby in a ship, for her to appear slightly later - it can't be that much later when she appears and puts the Tenno in the Orbiter seat). The "cutest" thing, the most awwwww-inducing thing, is for the Warframe to have some lingering, rudimentary sense of consciousness and loyalty to the Tenno. But I think that, if that's the case, it doesn't go much beyond that (although the "war within" does sound suggestive - perhaps there's the possibility of some break or civil war state between Tenno and Warframe?). (Hehe, just thought of a strange possibility: what if the biological parts of the Warframes are all Infested clones of Hayden Tenno? :) ) Edited December 7, 2015 by Omnimorph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemosu Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Well i think it's safe to assume that warframes are living tissue in one way or another, enter the technocyte virus be it by Dark Sector cannon or warframe interactions with J3 Golem or Phorid or Lephanits they all acknowledge the warframes as similars. Also i wanted to make a post about something related after seeing the quest. It has to do with the Chroma, Mirrage and Limbo and their quests. If you can recall during the quests these warframes talk to the Lotus/Tenno/Ordis in one way or another. We could assume that what The Lotus tell us Mirage is saying before her death is being said by the Tenno controlling her while in the second dream but still more info is needed here. Still that leaves us with Limbo and Chroma. Limbo I didn't understand quite well how limbo is communicating with Ordis still the fact that Ordis extracted such info from a warframe component which was newly crafted and thous highly unlikely to be connected to any tenno, it's safe to assume that it contains living biological information in the helmet or whatever... "Operator, I found a new theorem hidden deep in that Warframe part. These are actually starting to make sense, I mean they're nonsense but there's logic in the nonsense. It's almost as if someone's trying to speak to me in my own language." "What is he trying to say? My apologies, operator, I get a little worked up when it comes to physics." "Operator do you understand, this Limbo is telling us his story in pure math, and I must say, he's quite witty." "More parts to the story. My word, he is a magician of logic. Just when I think his diffraction principle is full of dangling ratios, he expresses his dynamic constant in pure numbers. I never saw it coming." and then there is this int he Limbo Theorem quest: "Oh, wait, Limbo, no that's a mistake, you don't want to go there. It's too big a jump. You can't rift walk... ohh. Oh no. Operator, I think I know why we're finding Limbo parts scattered throughout the system. His final rift walk was a miscal... disaster. Well, perhaps when you occupy this frame, you will use more... caution." Finally the Chroma quest: First message from Chroma: "HERE WE SHALL SEARCH AND FIND. THE EYES OF DAY DRINKING THE NIGHT." Then the Chroma chassis starts relayin some informations(from the wiki): "Once the Chassis is complete, Ordis notes that the blueprint is sending a signal, which turns out to be a transmission from the Arcane Machine that says: ALL IS SILENT IN THE CALM. HUSHED AND EMPTY IS THE WOMB OF THE SKY." Then this bomb: "Lotus mentions that Chroma was one of the most powerful Warframes with a great ability to adapt. Simaris deduces that the Chroma they're looking for is not Tenno-controlled, and that it is this mystery that is his goal." Lastly in the last part of the quest we are told that by defeating Chroma we might find out who controls it, but insted we scan it in order to get the BP and thous we don't find out who or what is controlling it. So still the mystery deepens but it does give some elements to support the theory that the warframes can act on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artekkor Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) So, wait... All this time infested bosses werent talking to Operators. They were talking to Warframes made from the same infested stuff. Mind blown again. The question still stands - do infested know about our Warframe's inner concious, or they just fail to see that they're just puppets? Then there is this thing that Operator says now and then - "...we are immune to this virus...". First of all who "we"? All the Tenno or Operator and his Warframe symbiosis? But how Tenno can be immune to this? From what we know they're human children filled with void energy. Either void energy protects them, somehow, or... This is ironical, really, we found out what Tenno are but now it raises question what exactly is a Warframe and what relationship the two have. I think we gave Lore too many protein shakes. Edited December 8, 2015 by Artek94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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