Pure Status Chance Vs Pure Damage - What's Better?

[Vultrux]

This may have been answered somewhere else but I couldn't find anything that answered my particular question.

 

So, what is better? Purely status chances for a reduction in damage, OR all damage which a reduction in status chance?

 

One of my favorite weapons is the Amprex and it has a high status chance at 20%, which is awesome. I've made two builds, one using event elemental mods for extra status, and one with regular elemental mods for extra damage.

 

So then which set up would be better late game, like levels 50+ where the enemies start to get tough?

 

The two builds I made are on warframe builder.

Amprex status build: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Amprex/t_30_22222000_128-6-3-132-2-5-137-0-10-140-3-5-150-1-10-159-4-5-265-5-3-355-7-3_137-7-150-8-132-8-140-5-159-5-265-7-128-7-355-7/en/2-0-47

Amprex damage build: http://warframe-builder.com/Primary_Weapons/Builder/Amprex/t_30_22223030_131-7-5-132-2-5-133-6-5-137-0-10-140-3-5-141-4-5-150-1-10-159-5-5_137-7-150-8-132-8-140-5-141-6-159-9-133-6-131-11/en/2-0-47

 

Now that we have those two builds you can see that the status build has 79% status and 12k sustained DPS. While the damage build has 34% status and 15.5k sustained DPS.

 

Are procs really that useful that if I proc enough I'll do more damage than just from my damage build?

[Vultrux]

Sorry for reviving my thread after almost a month but I thought I should put down what I learned. There were some great answers but nothing that answered my question exactly so I went through some testing.

 

So my main reason for asking this question was with the Amprex. With a base damage of 7.5 and Status/sec of 20%. Now that damage might seem low, however you can hit up to 6 targets at once. Now my two builds I was looking at are listed up at the top. The Status build stood as '80% status/sec with 12k DPS', OR the Damage build '35% status/sec with 15.5k DPS'.

 

So I first started with my status build (with corrosive/cold) as I already had it and tried it in a T3 survival for 40 minutes which allowed plenty of time using it and high enough level enemies. I even ran lower level missions around level 20. Even using it felt weak from my previous build which had only about 30%-60% extra elemental damage. The damage started to drop off at about 25-30 minutes and I didn't notice a lot of the status' procs doing much for me. So from there I changed my build to my damage build (with corrosive/cold) and did another T3 survival to 40 minutes and random level 20 missions, nothing changed in terms of auras or warframe used. For the T3 survival I felt the damage fall off at about 35+ minutes and still felt strong and could keep going as well as in the level 20 missions I was able to kill them faster, or in one shot.

 

So in my opinion from this point on is pure damage is far more useful in most cases. The only time status might be more useful is if you need like gas procs or electricity procs for crowd control.

 

I hope this helps someone else out. Feel free to message me in game if I'm on if anyone has more questions.

[AM-Bunny]

If a weapon has high status chance, I use it. Capitalize on a weapon's strengths. I use Amprex a lot myself, and my build is definitely closer to the first one you posted. That has my vote.

[OverlordMcGeek]

I prefer the damage outlook since status is a bit unappealing with per-second mechanics.

[Wolvebrother]

For the Amprex I like to use a mix of both, depending of what I`m doing.

Low Level things can be shred with ease when using damagemods.

For higher levels i like to use electricity and explosion with a lot of status to keep everything from moving. Try it out in the Simulacrum, its a lot of fun

[Vultrux]

I know status procs are great, but do they help in the end more than what just the pure damage does? And like how Wolvebrother said he uses lightning damage to stun the enemies is great, but I won't be using just lightning. I'll have the best combined elements that do maximum damage to the faction I'm fighting.

 

So the Amprex is great up until about level 50-60s once the enemies start getting insane amounts of health. So I'm still stuck on whether or not the status build can out damage the damage build at high levels because of its status procs.

 

Lets take corrupted enemies for example. They have lots of health and armor. So that's why I made the corrosive/cold build. When the corrosive procs it'll eat away their armor and also does bonus elemental damage to them anyway. But does that armor reduction actually do that much to the point I can destroy their armor and do more damage than I could to them if I just had the damage build.

 

I'd love to try out both builds in game but I just don't have the time to do it anymore.

[(PSN)TheYetiMan22]

Status is king in late game void (when not using CP). Go for the status build as when the enemy armour starts scaling to stupid levels you need a way to strip it away and actually get to the health. A damage build will fall off at a certain level when the armour mitigates any damage output before you even get to the health. I think that's how it works but I'm happy to be corrected.

Edited December 9, 2015 by (PS4)TheYetiMan22

[Vultrux]

I'll definitely give the status build a try but I've gotta buy rime rounds and thermite rounds to complete my set and then I'll see how well it goes. When I first had the gun it was a status build and was amazing, but it was too weak so I couldn't even bring it with on like level 20+ missions. Then when I basically could fit on all my damage and crit mods it was pure damage from there on out. Once I grab those last two mods I'll test it out and see how much better it does on the daily missions since like two days ago on that eximus stronghold defense mission it hardly did much and maybe the status will counter a lot of that.

[ThorienKELL]

Depends on weapon, enemy, level, many things. 

People say status is great for high level, but i think that's highly debatable. 

If weapon shoots slow, strong hits, status is almost useless.

For fast firing /continuous damage weapon can be good. 

Corrosive is first pick because it strips armor but if you using lot of CPs then it's not as good.

Radiation, possibly, a bit if you're attacking huge AoE with relatively low damage weapon like ignis or torrid.

Viral, good, not sure if it procs on all enemy types. 

[MrJxt]

If the weapon has good status then I build status for the extra utility.

[Vultrux]

Depends on weapon, enemy, level, many things. 

People say status is great for high level, but i think that's highly debatable.

For fast firing /continuous damage weapon can be good. 

Corrosive is first pick because it strips armor but if you using lot of CPs then it's not as good.

 

Well, I'm going to be using the Amprex, a lightning gun with 20% status per second and its fire rate is 20 so it is a fast weapon. Essentially I don't care about lower levels, anything under 40 since those are almost insta kills, period. The real question is on high level enemies like levels 50+ even up to level 100 now with the dailies. I would be using the elements that do the best damage on each faction like, corrosive/cold on corrupted and grineer(or viral/radiation), magnetic/toxin on corpus, and corrosive/heat on infested(or gas/electric). I don't use corrosive projection but rather energy siphon as everyone can use that and is always useful.

So thats what I'm working with and the question still stands whether or not the status procs turn the battle into your favor over just damage late game.

[Darzk]

Generally speaking, most procs are one time benefits - the effects do not particularly gain from stacks. This means the only time you really want to stack status chance is on slower firing weapons - the damaging procs are based on the damage per bullet, and the status procs gain no benfit from stacking so fast firing weapons with decent status will get them up frequently enough.

 

There is some argument to be made for stacking slash procs, but it's not that effective anymore (U17 cut DoT proc damage in half in a bugfix)

 

When people (who know what's up) are talking about status being good for high levels, they're generally talking about the Corrosive proc effect, which is not only pretty powerful, but it stacks multiple times to increase it's effectiveness. On high RoF and high pellet-count weapons, like the BratonP or the Hek, stacking status becomes essentially 'improving your ability to strip armor' which translates into much higher DPS compared to dealing direct damage - to armored targets. 

 

When you're fighting unarmored enemies, stacking status is pointless (1 viral = 20 viral, all the same thing) so it's better to go for more damage. When you're using slow-firing weapons, you'd only want to stack status if you can reach near 100% and/or are relying on the damage of the proc (AoE Lanka for an example). 

 

The other reason 'status is good against high levels' is because of the CC potential. When enemies can kill you in a couple of shots, being able to keep them stunlocked while they die becomes more important than simply killing them as quick as possible. While most frames will rely on abilities to mitigate/prevent damage, it's always nice to have some additional stun capability on your weapons.

 

The Amprex is a bit of a middle ground, not firing quickly (1/3rd of a sec between ticks) but at the same time having the potential to hit 6 enemies at once. However the relatively slow RoF per target means that Corrosive stacking is not really viable, by the time you've built up enough Corrosive procs to make a difference the direct damage build has killed the target - for the builds you're contemplating, use the direct damage one. 

 

I will suggest, however, having a stab at the CC potential of the Amprex by modding for Elec+Viral procs, and installing Sinister Reach. This is a ~2-3 Forma setup that works very well in a group - you won't be putting out the most damage, but you can lock down an entire room with electric procs and cut enemy health in half while you do so. It works excellent with a squishy, damage amp frame like Banshee, and it also works well with squishier nuke frames (the viral proc essentially doubling your ability damage output). http://goo.gl/QqswuT

[Zagatou]

What do you think about the combustion beam mod?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Combustion_Beam

+600 Damage, sounds nice.

[OniGanon]

The Amprex, being a Continuous weapon, can have a high Status chance but it cannot apply that status repeatedly in a short time period. Therefore, it works best with Viral Radiation rather than Corrosive for Status.

 

Corrosive status works best on weapons that can apply status rapidly and repeatedly, like the Braton Prime, Strun Wraith or Kohm.

[Zagatou]

@OniGanon

That means, the status effect will only apply once when holding the trigger?

 

This is my actualy amprex 4Forma build:

The mods in the first row are absolutely needed, otherwise, the damage will not be adequate, same for RAMutation,

ammo gets exhausted pretty quickly cause of the ridiculous ammo pool (540 i believe).

 

What i want to say is, there are not enough mod slots, to make this weapon suitable

versus high levels Lv60 - Lv100 enemies...The damage is just to low....

 

Well,..grineer weapons are very strong i know....

if i want a suitable weapon versus Lv60+ i should be fine with (twin)grakata.

Thing is, in my eyes are grineer skins absolutely ugly and horrible to look at.

I have a big passion for corpus tech energy weapons....

 

It would be really nice and fair, if DE would bring some new energy weapons (or buff the old ones)

which can match with the Grineer ones...

 

It cant be, that Tonkor is so damn OP and the Amprex so damn weak, i know i complain much, but my situation is:

The weapons i like, are not suitable versus higher levels...

BOOM, hit in my face! Truth is hard, but has to be accepted, so face it....Amprex is useless versus higher levels...

 

Sad fact...

Hoping for Amprex Vandal, is all i can actually do....

Edited January 3, 2016 by Zagatou

[(PSN)federally]

The problem with status effects in this game is really a core issue with how they are implemented in the game.

The benefits they grant are applied to one enemy at a time and paid out over time.

In a game where combat revolves around fighting hordes of relatively weak enemies, status just doesn't offer enough.

The one situations where status could really shine, boss battles, it offers nothing because bosses are granted their durability by invulnerability phases. Not by high stats that need stripped away with status weapons.

So you're always better off applying as much brute force as possible to kill everything as quickly as possible.

[Zagatou]

Corrosive + Blast on Tonkor = 10k or more damage, even at Lv100 Enemys

Amprex and Tonkor are "Mastery Rank 5" weapons, why is there such a huge difference in damage and efficiency?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Amprex

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Tonkor

Compare the element stats with the MR5 Weapon Amprex, what the? XD

I feel fooled, this causes a total logical error in my brain, it just makes no sense.

Tonkor Blast's an area which could be compared with the chain lightning effect range of the Amprex.

100 Shot from the Amprex "should" do equal damage like 1 Shot from the Tonkor.

I dont see any reason why the one MR5 weapon does nearly no dmg to Lv100+ enemys...

and the other MR5 weapon just kill them all instantly...

 

Honestly @DE, please buff the Amprex and fix that issue,

its a good weapon with unique style and gameplay, dont let the Amprex become a piece of useless junk!

Weapons of the same Mastery Rank should never differ that much.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Zagatou

[xRufus7x]

Corrosive + Blast on Tonkor = 10k or more damage, even at Lv100 Enemys

Amprex and Tonkor are "Mastery Rank 5" weapons, why is there such a huge difference in damage and efficiency?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Amprex

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Tonkor

Compare the element stats with the MR5 Weapon Amprex, what the? XD

I feel fooled, this causes a total logical error in my brain, it just makes no sense.

Tonkor Blast's an area which could be compared with the chain lightning effect range of the Amprex.

100 Shot from the Amprex "should" do equal damage like 1 Shot from the Tonkor.

I dont see any reason why the one MR5 weapon does nearly no dmg to Lv100+ enemys...

and the other MR5 weapon just kill them all instantly...

 

Honestly @DE, please buff the Amprex and fix that issue,

its a good weapon with unique style and gameplay, dont let the Amprex become a piece of useless junk!

Weapons of the same Mastery Rank should never differ that much.

I would argue that the Tonkor is too powerful for MR5. It is the only explosive weapon without self damage and does ridiculous damage.

[Zagatou]

Yes, its definitely not an an MR5 weapon, compare the base elemental damage:

Amprex 7.5 Electrical / with Mods 130

Tonkor 325 Blast / with Mods 2563 (not to mention, the additional physical dmg of 75 puncture)

Tonkor is a MR 12 Weapon in my eyes, not 5....

 

But i have to say, draco was never easier since this weapon came out^^

I hope the Amprex will be buffed in future, 25% damage difference would be ok for me, or at least...

an ammunition stock like the Glaxion (1500),

540 max ammo is a bad joke for a primary weapon like Amprex...

Edited January 5, 2016 by Zagatou

[BlueFalcon13]

Status can be great, with the right weapon.

Quanta/Quanta Vandal- punch through and status chance, particularly radiation and viral. Magically hordes of enemies are fighting each other at half health... Not bad against super high level mobs...

Braton prime- same setup roughly similar results.

Both phenomenal status weapons.

[(XBOX)Yiazzy]

Status OR Damage? Why not do both?

For example, my Hek is doing 23K Damage per shot, with a status chance of 98%. It's phenomenal.

[BlueFalcon13]

Status OR Damage? Why not do both?

For example, my Hek is doing 23K Damage per shot, with a status chance of 98%. It's phenomenal.

If you are running multishot mods (and I'm sure you are with a hek) then it is 98% per trigger pull. Now, further, with any shotgun, that multishot of multishot (multiple cartiges of pellets) means that each individual pellet and a smallish chance to proc a status. IE its not near 100%.

Now for example a vaykor marelok with no multishot mods can get 100% status with the 60/60 elemental mods (all 4) and throw multi shot on it and EVERY damage tick (all the multishot bullets) have a 100% status chance.

Shotguns are funny when it comes to status. They are counted as trigger-pull status chance and not pellet status chance. Multishot mods behave this way as well. Another example: my hikou Prime have 86.6% status chance but have both multishot mods in them for this. Therefore per mouse click, I have an 86.6% chance that I will get at least one status effect.

[(XBOX)Yiazzy]

If you are running multishot mods (and I'm sure you are with a hek) then it is 98% per trigger pull. Now, further, with any shotgun, that multishot of multishot (multiple cartiges of pellets) means that each individual pellet and a smallish chance to proc a status. IE its not near 100%.

Now for example a vaykor marelok with no multishot mods can get 100% status with the 60/60 elemental mods (all 4) and throw multi shot on it and EVERY damage tick (all the multishot bullets) have a 100% status chance.

Shotguns are funny when it comes to status. They are counted as trigger-pull status chance and not pellet status chance. Multishot mods behave this way as well. Another example: my hikou Prime have 86.6% status chance but have both multishot mods in them for this. Therefore per mouse click, I have an 86.6% chance that I will get at least one status effect.

Sorry, but I'm inclined to disagree. I don't run Frigid Blast on my Hek often, but when I did, the Status Chance is 100% and it Procs every time. 98% isn't much worse, shot procs literally 9/10 times.

[BlueFalcon13]

Sorry, but I'm inclined to disagree. I don't run Frigid Blast on my Hek often, but when I did, the Status Chance is 100% and it Procs every time. 98% isn't much worse, shot procs literally 9/10 times.

Try this: use the corrupted mod that increases spread, then barely tag a mob with a pellet (not the whole spread). You will see it truely does not have 100% status, but because so many pellets are hitting the same target, you are proving at least one status per trigger pull...