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Datamined Mission Rewards Are Bad. If True, Please Change Them.

Kyrkitao

By Kyrkitao,
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Korevas

Korevas

Posted
Posted

Yeah I'm dubious as well. According to this I should've gotten at least 1 T3 void key after 667 defense missions. This is simply not the case, so clearly drop chance is not that high.

 

Oh really? If the chance for a T3 key dropping is 0.15%, the probability of that happening is 37%. I wouldn't even call this unlikely.

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Stalvert

Stalvert

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There's multiple ways DE can fix this nonsense. The first is to admit wrongdoing, because this is clearly done wrong. There's plenty of things that people dislike, like killing a boss/the stalker and getting nothing. TF2 mitigated this by having the currency tie directly into the item system- scrap metals, I mean. So if you don't get a BP, you should get a "broken part" or whatever you'd like to call it, which could then be melted down for raw materials or serve as a material discount on the item, to the point where if you had ten or so, the item would essentially be free. Then add T1 keys to all boss tables, and give them another resource slot.

 

What else could they do? Have keys "break" after a successful mission, and make you get them back as crafting materials to make another key. This would add buy in to the keys beyond "I have this, and then I'm done with it". They could also give the next tier key reward at the end of a tower, make T1 keys a lot more accessible, and make T1 and T2 towers harder. I'm spitballin' here with no editing, mind you.

 

Even if these droprates are skewed, they're certainly damning, because they reflect how everyone feels about the drops anyways, so it doesn't matter how true they are if they reinforce bias. If that bias happens to be true, they're even worse off.

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Stalvert

Stalvert

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Posted

I love difficulty STILL means nothing in this game.

Doing hard missions against higher level enemies just equates out to a massive waste of time and is only for bragging rights.

I dunno, I found T3 exterminate to actually be difficult for once and enjoyable.

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Kyrkitao

Kyrkitao

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Posted (edited)

I was privately asked to change the title of this thread to reflect that it discusses mission rewards. I have complied in an effort because that person was correct, it caused unnecessary confusion.

Edited by Kyrkitao
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Mak_Gohae

Mak_Gohae

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Posted

There's multiple ways DE can fix this nonsense. The first is to admit wrongdoing, because this is clearly done wrong. There's plenty of things that people dislike, like killing a boss/the stalker and getting nothing.

 

Seriously.... is this your first time playing an online game with drops?

If De is "wrongdoing" pretty much all online games out there with some sort of drop system is doing it wrong.

And this includes both pay and F2P games.

 

A lot of you folks are flipping out over standard systems that are used widely.

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Zero.No.Hikari

Zero.No.Hikari

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Posted (edited)

I honestly like this systems makes me wanna do defense in hope that I'll get multi-shot.  Hell its amazing doing void without a cap like some games do where the rarest stuff is found.  Ever Play Vindictus? Try getting a formor tear in a run, can't after third shot wait a week. wanna try and buy it? have like 3 billion gold to spare for just one tear.  at least here we can make an attempt for all we want for an items.  I love this game and am willing to put up with RNG as long as it doesn't make it so easy to get a single mod Took me to get to Lith to get y one and only Puncture mod for my rifle, and it was worth it I might add.

 

Edit: I have yet to find Frost Prime Systems but thats me running mostly T1 tower runs not the game itself.  I also feel the numbers are off, if Stock is so easy to come by why after 8 Runs I have yet to get that or the blade if they're 25% proc?

Edited by LigerXeno
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pizulka

pizulka

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Seriously.... is this your first time playing an online game with drops?

If De is "wrongdoing" pretty much all online games out there with some sort of drop system is doing it wrong.

And this includes both pay and F2P games.

 

A lot of you folks are flipping out over standard systems that are used widely.

The fact that it's used widely by many other developers in many other F2P games doesn't justify how unfair and flawed this system is. 

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Stalvert

Stalvert

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Posted

The problem is most other F2P games are absolute cash grabs. One of the only ones to do it right is Team Fortress 2, which has a circular system. Eventually, you'll get something, and it has a value built-in to the system. Don't like the weapons you keep getting? Scrap them, make the metal into a random hat. The problem is here everything is out, but not in. You can sell blueprints, but you only get credits with them. You can buy some blueprints with credits, but credits are so easy to come by there's no reason to try to amass them- just playing the game will get you them. You can't buy resources or mods with credits, thus severely limiting their use. You can't sell resources at all, and mods give so little it's never worth selling them.

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Wutever

Wutever

Posted
Posted (edited)

Seriously.... is this your first time playing an online game with drops?

If De is "wrongdoing" pretty much all online games out there with some sort of drop system is doing it wrong.

And this includes both pay and F2P games.

 

A lot of you folks are flipping out over standard systems that are used widely.

Thing is, in most MMOs that aren't terrible cash grabs the 0.2% drops are either:

1. from normal / elite mobs that can be found dime a dozen and killed in under 20 seconds

2. cosmetic stuff from bosses (e.g. Dreadsteed in Stratholme) that is intended to be ultra rare and isn't essential for progress

 

What do we have in Warframe?

1. core mods have an abyssmal drop chance from mission rewards where a mission takes anywhere from 10 - 20+ minutes.

2. access to end-game content comes from a key with a 0.15% drop chance every 20 minutes.

3. end-game BPs / components have a similarly bad drop rate and you need multiple parts, all of which come from mission rewards

4. some of the newest mods, while not totally essential, are unobtainable via gameplay (modpacks only)

 

You are quite literally grinding to get a chance at grinding. A grinding pyramid scheme, if you so will. I can already see the next tier - 0.15% chance to get a Orokin Pyramid Key from tier 3 Orokin Void missions, which allows you to grind for that 0.whatever% Burston Prime Receiver.

 

You have a better chance of getting hit by lightning from a clear sky while next to a skyscraper than getting that Burston Prime in the same timeframe.

 

Do you still not see in what way this sh*t is just plain wrong, especially when the developer claims that the game isn't about grinding?

 

Edit: Actually, they are right. The game is clearly about giving DE your money. Ever wondered why UltimatePay doesn't have an option to remove your credit card info and the "save info" box is checked by default? So you can give them your money faster.

Edited by Wutever
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Mak_Gohae

Mak_Gohae

Posted
Posted (edited)

The fact that it's used widely by many other developers in many other F2P games doesn't justify how unfair and flawed this system is. 

 

True, but let's not act like DE is purposely doing some evil thing.

 

 

 

Thing is, in most MMOs that aren't terrible cash grabs the 0.2% drops are either:

1. from normal / elite mobs that can be found dime a dozen and killed in under 20 seconds

2. cosmetic stuff from bosses (e.g. Dreadsteed in Stratholme) that is intended to be ultra rare and isn't essential for progress

 

 

What MMOs have you been playing?

 

 

What do we have in Warframe?

1. core mods have an abyssmal drop chance from mission rewards where a mission takes anywhere from 10 - 20+ minutes.

2. access to end-game content comes from a key with a 0.15% drop chance every 20 minutes.

3. end-game BPs / components have a similarly bad drop rate and you need multiple parts, all of which come from mission rewards

4. some of the newest mods, while not totally essential, are unobtainable via gameplay (modpacks only)

 

You are quite literally grinding to get a chance at grinding. A grinding pyramid scheme, if you so will. I can already see the next tier - 0.15% chance to get a Orokin Pyramid Key from tier 3 Orokin Void missions, which allows you to grind for that 0.whatever% Burston Prime Receiver.

 

You have a better chance of getting hit by lightning from a clear sky while next to a skyscraper than getting that Burston Prime in the same timeframe.

 

Do you still not see in what way this sh*t is just plain wrong, especially when the developer claims that the game isn't about grinding?

 

Edit: Actually, they are right. The game is clearly about giving DE your money. Ever wondered why UltimatePay doesn't have an option to remove your credit card info and the "save info" box is checked by default? So you can give them your money faster.

 

1. What these core mods?

2. The Void isnt end game content the Void is simply an area to get a different kinds of loot.

3. Outside of Forma, are any of those items necessary? It's not like other games where you endlessly doing runs for items that are tremendously helpful.

4. I dont know that but... what's the problem?

 

 

Like i mentioned earlier, U8 is just over a week old and you folks are flipping out over stuff that isnt necessary.

Edited by Mak_Gohae
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VScipii26

VScipii26

Posted
Posted

I think we'd all rather prefer it if DE supported itself with more cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay and allowed the gameplay affecting items to be obtained more freely.

You mean like most other majorly popular games out there?

*gasp*

But it's unheard of!

It's perfectly fine to sell things that affect gameplay, but it needs to be done carefully.

The datamined drop rates show how awkward they were when implementing new mods. They made mistakes. They have yet to fix them.

They should be fixed to make the game better.

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rhoenix

rhoenix

Posted
Posted

To the OP - thank you for posting this. This certainly seems accurate in terms of mission rewards from my experiences since u8 hit.

The single-use items should all be removed as rewards (except Keys - those definitely need to stay) to start with, certainly. If DE fixes the loot & mission reward issues, shows strong progress toward working on a storyline, and makes Alerts more bearable, I'll consider upgrading my account again.

For me so far though, u8 has been all about the new good being balanced right out by the new bad, not about the game really getting more awesome. The new map tiles all over (especially the Grineer ship map tiles) are excellent, but the new loot tables are irritating. The new Orokin areas are awesome, but the reward tables for going there are questionable. The new Dojo is grandiose and cool, but requires players to engage in mass corporate mergers to have a chance of getting more than a single room completed per month.

Here's hoping u9 shows much more promise.

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