Buffs Are Needed For Ne Zha. Any Word From De?

[tripletriple]

Here's with no #3, and an un-potatoed, un-formaed tonkor, since you attribute it all to boltor prime:

I never said I was a pro, I said Nezha is. I said he's better than people are realizing because they're playing him wrong. You think Rhino is "faster"? What are you, high? There is no faster frame in the game than Nezha. I out-race Volts with his "mario ice stage nightmare" passive that you hate.

I'm not even that good of a player, and I'm not pretending to be. But you *are* missing something: once you accept Nezha's different movement system and change your play style to adapt, he becomes a god. He doesn't need buffing. The people complaining he's weak just haven't figured him out yet. You haven't figured him out yet, clearly, from your comments.

But, hey, it's easier and makes you feel better to dismiss someone than to take the time to actually learn a new frame, especially when that frame doesn't immediately make sense to you and feels a little uncomfortable.

I know you are a more casual player but it's best to describe what mission you were playing and who your squad mates were. I can do that on practically any warframe.

[Kanjirou]

I know you are a more casual player but it's best to describe what mission you were playing and who your squad mates were. I can do that on practically any warframe.

 

Sortie #1, just ran it. Can post the others if you want.

I'm telling you, this isn't just hot air and posing. Nezha has some serious power if played right.

[rawr1254]

Sortie #1, just ran it. Can post the others if you want.

I'm telling you, this isn't just hot air and posing. Nezha has some serious power if played right.

Boltor P, Dragon Nikana. His argument seems valid. :|

[Kanjirou]

Boltor P, Dragon Nikana. His argument seems valid. :|

Look again: Didn't use melee once, and further up I got similar results with a tonkor.

What weapon would you *like* me to use? Basically anything spray-style should work fine with his movement style.

[rawr1254]

Look again: Didn't use melee once, and further up I got similar results with a tonkor.

What weapon would you *like* me to use? Basically anything spray-style should work fine with his movement style.

Ok let me just SHOW you how bad he is...

 

Both are the exact same build(max high str. Cant say max anymore cause of Power Drift >.>)

[tripletriple]

Look again: Didn't use melee once, and further up I got similar results with a tonkor.

What weapon would you *like* me to use? Basically anything spray-style should work fine with his movement style.

Running a quick mission and pointing to your stats proves nothing. Neither is it an accurate metric to determine anything. Your team mates could be bad, asleep, not trying etc. They could be on trinity or other low aoe warframes.

The fact that you are trying to use that data only shows a lack of experience when playing warframe. Using your weapon is not an accurate way to prove if a warframe is underperforming or not.

If you want to midly impress me, record footage of top damage and top kills with no weapons, versus other warframes not using weapons or using them.

Also have the players on that team try against you.

As it stands Rhino is objectively better than Ne zha. He can be very quick and actually has a damage buff for him and his team, effectively give him the edge against Ne Zha no matter how many pics you post.

Thanks for being optimistic but you are trying to hammer a point in using a spoon. It won't work.

Edited December 18, 2015 by tripletriple

[Machayna]

It's a counter-example to your claim that Nezha is a weak frame. Getting top kills, dmg, etc, while taking 0% damage -- I'd like to see you do that with any other frame, and then I'll call it weak and underwhelming.

You want a video? I can make you a video. Let me show you how weak and underwhelming of a frame it is, desperately in need of buffs.

You might actually need to in this case.  It actually might help to see how you play him.  I'd have to say though I agree with the person who said the picture itself shows nothing.  With the right gun you can do serious damage on most levels regardless of frame's powers.  But there you are showing off how good the gun is and how well you can use that weapon.  It has nothing to do with how good the frame is or how weak or strong the abilities are. Not only that but the boltor prime is one of the strongest weapons in the game.  So from the stats that are presented all I can really tell is that you got some decent kills.  In fact the picture doesn't even show the level you were playing so enemy level has no context either.  Earth survival?  Ceres survival?   I could probably assume you were on saturn as one of the images shows a saturn background but I'd have to say you're not proving how strong he is by hitting a saturn mission.  Not saying this to be a jerk or anything because I really want this frame to be good (I don't have him yet).  

 

So far the videos that I've seen have put him as underwhelming in end game content due to power falloff.  H3dsh0t on youtube is one that I can think of offhand.  So man.....if you have a video showing how powerful his skills are and not how good you are with a powerful primary weapon then yeah.....let me know when you put up the vid and I'll watch it.  Very interested.

 

EDIT:  I didn't see that you later mentioned you did the first sortie.  Again I'd love to see the video and how you're playing him because again I really want this frame to be good.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Machayna

[Kevlareater]

I'd definitely not say no to a buff to Nezzy's abilities. I don't mind his abilities as they are, it's just that aside from his 4th ability, the others have an annoyingly short reach.

 

- 1 + 2 combo should have a wider PBAoE (point blank area of effect).

 

- Firewalker's flames could have a wider radius (no, I'm not talking about blanketing an entire room in one stride, I mean about 2m more with maxed out range). And the skill's wider fire radius should look wider as well, as it doesn't in its current state.

 

- Warding Halo's stagger effect could also have a chance of proccing fire. Also a slightly wider range (2m more with maxed out range). 

 

- Divine Spears could proc fire to those impaled. Its slam could also proc fire on enemies that are near the impaled ones at the time of slamming.

 

If Nezha's gonna drop fire point blank with his abilities, he might as well proc it in a wider radius so that he would have an easier time stunning more foes with panic. It would also be nice for him to set the stage on fire in a way that differs from Ember, but in an equal fashion. Let's get the assumptions and generalizations over with!

[(XBOX)Hot Granny Jam]

The only thing Nezha needs is Blazing Chakram to scale with melee mods.

Perhaps there will be augment mods that allow Warding Halo to absorb damage and add it onto your next Blazing Chakram throw. Or an augment mod that makes your Divine Spears burn enemies for every second they are impaled, and explode in a firey wrath when it runs out or is recast. Other than that, the real necessity, in my opinion, is to make Blazing Chakram scale with melee mods.

Edited December 18, 2015 by (XB1)Embeeyem

[Sorise]

The only thing Nezha needs is Blazing Chakram to scale with melee mods.

Perhaps there will be augment mods that allow Warding Halo to absorb damage and add it onto your next Blazing Chakram throw. Or an augment mod that makes your Divine Spears burn enemies for every second they are impaled, and explode in a firey wrath when it runs out or is recast. Other than that, the real necessity, in my opinion, is to make Blazing Chakram scale with melee mods.

More must needed changes to waste space as if there is any space left.

[Kai_Shiba]

Ok let me just SHOW you how bad he is...

 

Both are the exact same build(max high str. Cant say max anymore cause of Power Drift >.>)

 

So wait... Because he doesn't deal a lot of damage, he is bad?

 

Uhhhhh...

Edited December 19, 2015 by KJRenz

[Sorise]

So wait... Because he doesn't deal a lot of damage, he is bad?

 

Uhhhhh...

 

So wait... Because he doesn't deal a lot of damage, he is bad?

 

Uhhhhh...

Well, what's so good about him?

[Kai_Shiba]

Well, what's so good about him?

 

So wait... You're saying he has to deal a lot of damage to be good? Screw the utilty factor of any of his abilities am I right?

 

His whole thing is to keep on the move.

 

His first ability lasts pretty long and cleanses allies of any status procs if they go over it.

 

Second ability marks enemies, when killed by any means of damage, will heal allies near the death of that enemy. (Mine is about 500hp heal) Did I mention a teleport?

 

His third ability is essentially like Iron skin, benefitting from armor mods and being attacked during the first few seconds of activation will increase the ability greatly, as well as a stagger/damage effect when near enemies.

 

His fourth opens enemies up to ground finishers and are suspended helplessly.

 

Again, because a frame deals no damage to high tier enemies, they're considered bad?

 

It's as if many want Nezha to be good without the use of any weapons.

Edited December 19, 2015 by KJRenz

[Genitive]

A warframe needs to be fun in order to be good. Is Nezha fun? Yes.

 

If your idea of fun is killing stuff quickly, that's okay. Take a frame that deals lots of damage.

[rawr1254]

 

So wait... Because he doesn't deal a lot of damage, he is bad?

 

Uhhhhh...

Cmon you could max str jsut about any other frame, itd consume your entire energy pool, but itd still at least kill something...

[Kai_Shiba]

 

 

Cmon you could max str jsut about any other frame, itd consume your entire energy pool, but itd still at least kill something...

 

 

That's just a horrible trade off.

 

So, by your logic, 

 

Nova first ability should kill a level 80 right? with one cast

 

Undertow and Hydroids first ability should deal 100k damage, but he's considered bad

 

Rhino stomp and his charge SHOULD kill an enemy at level 75s with max str, but it doesn't. So he's considered bad

 

Ember entire kit should burn and melt enemies at levels 80 instantly, but it doesn't, so she's considered bad

 

Vauban first ability doesn't deal enough damage nor does his fourth ability, by your logic, he's bad

 

I can go on and on,

 

A frame is bad if it doesn't deal any damage, is what you're saying

 

That's uhh, a good mindset right there.

 

 

A warframe needs to be fun in order to be good. Is Nezha fun? Yes.

 

If your idea of fun is killing stuff quickly, that's okay. Take a frame that deals lots of damage.

 

This

[rawr1254]

That's just a horrible trade off.

 

So, by your logic, 

 

Nova first ability should kill a level 80 right? with one cast

It does only as a catalyst to kill them with your own weapon(Synergy)_

Undertow and Hydroids first ability should deal 100k damage, but he's considered bad

Never said that and at least it CAN kill things.

Rhino stomp and his charge SHOULD kill an enemy at level 75s with max str, but it doesn't. So he's considered bad

Never said that but again it CAN kill things.

Ember entire kit should burn and melt enemies at levels 80 instantly, but it doesn't, so she's considered bad

Never said that but she kinda can :| Sorry if you didn't know that.

Vauban first ability doesn't deal enough damage nor does his fourth ability, by your logic, he's bad

Never said that but at least his bastille isn't hit and miss with the locks.

I can go on and on,

Please do so I can just keep telling you how you're wrong.

A frame is bad if it doesn't deal any damage, is what you're saying

Again, never said that. BUT I do feel that the skills should help you late game, his does not.

That's uhh, a good mindset right there.

 

 

 

This

Also with all your ranting I tested him on lv 50 Ancients...Still had trouble with them like they were lv 100+ Also he is kinda "fun" to play but that's where it ends. I can't have him going 40+ minutes in a survival or help me in JV Raid. ANY other frame can. So AGAIN SYNERGY is what I'm looking for here. Casting firewalker>chakram>RECASTING firewalker>casting chakram OVER AND OVER is NOT synergy or "fun"

Edited December 19, 2015 by rawr1254

[hukurokuju5]

.

Edited December 19, 2015 by hukurokuju5

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Only problems I got with Nezha aren't even related with the frame itself, but bugs or mechanics that should be changed rather than buffing the skill stats.

Just like Iron Skin, Halo would benefit a lot more if it used the same mechanics as Nullifiers and make it have a damage per hit cap (well, nullifiers is more like per time period), which would make the ability better at higher levels without having to gamble against bullets. Those 2 abilities to benefit from it's own mechanics, require you to go against the base gameplay, which usually is to kill everything, so basically you want to stop killing things so they can hit you so then you can get a better defence. It's a pretty meh thing in the end, useful in low~mid levels, hardly any better without gambling and performing circus tricks (which might not even work with a party).

The range, I see no problem, if they up the absorption amount just a tiny bit more.

 

Chackram is just, still, buggy, kinda hard to get used to it. Heal range seems meh.

 

Spears only problem is how Ancients still protect the units around them from being affected by it. Sadly it's yet another misunderstood power, people see it as damage only and then want permanent CC + more damage, just, what.

It holds things in place, makes them useless through the duration, has good range, lets you and your team mates perform finishers on them (CC and then life strike them, energy saved against armored targets), I really don't see what's so bad about it besides the problem with the ancients.

[Sorise]

So wait... You're saying he has to deal a lot of damage to be good? Screw the utilty factor of any of his abilities am I right?

 

His whole thing is to keep on the move.

 

His first ability lasts pretty long and cleanses allies of any status procs if they go over it.

 

Second ability marks enemies, when killed by any means of damage, will heal allies near the death of that enemy. (Mine is about 500hp heal) Did I mention a teleport?

 

His third ability is essentially like Iron skin, benefitting from armor mods and being attacked during the first few seconds of activation will increase the ability greatly, as well as a stagger/damage effect when near enemies.

 

His fourth opens enemies up to ground finishers and are suspended helplessly.

 

Again, because a frame deals no damage to high tier enemies, they're considered bad?

 

It's as if many want Nezha to be good without the use of any weapons.

Well, folks love fire...And they love fire doing damage. Fire is associated with damage so what you expect?

 

You just described another Oberon which no one asked for.

 

So in the end, he would be to closest to perhaps a Phoenix archetype or whatever this game can get to w/o the damage part.

 

He looks cool, feels cool, does cool things and uses fire so folks want him to actually do damage especially with Blazing Chakram since it functions as a glaive.

 

When he warps he causes an explosion, but what does that explosion do to help?

 

So there you have it, a speedy fun to use character that does more than heal and stab enemies with spears. Another Volt. Even "troll" the enemies with more than just two skills or simply do more damage with my synergy idea.

 

Either way, folks don't want another healer/status remover. So if he does not start doing damage soon, he'll  be tossed in the trash bin alongside Oberon. And I haven't seen Oby in ages.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Sorise

[-CM-Hekovashi]

I simply can't believe that de made another iron skin, in time where we all and de themself know that percentage damage reduction is better, just why? Put full str nezha and mesa\mirage vs 100 lvl gunner, which gonna last longer? And nezha have that "Heal" which is also will work better with percentage based damage reduction, oh de

[Kanjirou]

You might actually need to in this case.  It actually might help to see how you play him.  I'd have to say though I agree with the person who said the picture itself shows nothing.  With the right gun you can do serious damage on most levels regardless of frame's powers.  But there you are showing off how good the gun is and how well you can use that weapon.  It has nothing to do with how good the frame is or how weak or strong the abilities are. Not only that but the boltor prime is one of the strongest weapons in the game.  So from the stats that are presented all I can really tell is that you got some decent kills.  In fact the picture doesn't even show the level you were playing so enemy level has no context either.  Earth survival?  Ceres survival?   I could probably assume you were on saturn as one of the images shows a saturn background but I'd have to say you're not proving how strong he is by hitting a saturn mission.  Not saying this to be a jerk or anything because I really want this frame to be good (I don't have him yet).  

 

So far the videos that I've seen have put him as underwhelming in end game content due to power falloff.  H3dsh0t on youtube is one that I can think of offhand.  So man.....if you have a video showing how powerful his skills are and not how good you are with a powerful primary weapon then yeah.....let me know when you put up the vid and I'll watch it.  Very interested.

 

EDIT:  I didn't see that you later mentioned you did the first sortie.  Again I'd love to see the video and how you're playing him because again I really want this frame to be good.

 

My first T4 defense with Nezha: https://youtu.be/NIXL5zh2ZV8

 

I ran to 40, and pulled a 60 on T3S earlier. I've run all 3 sorties with him, too.

 

The strafing at 1:05 and then again at 2:40 is what he excels at. You can't do that S#&$ with any other frame. You just can't. He's a thug doing drive-by shootings in a Ferrari.

Nezha: Never Ever Stop Moving Forward. (Er, I guess that would be NESMF...? Whatever.)

Notice the health and shields: both max at under 250. I don't use defense mods. There's no point when you get hit so infrequently. Strength and duration are around 200% each. Have about 450 max energy. No prime mods, most of it is actually pretty crappy.

And don't give me the "lol boltor prime" argument. Un-potatoed, un-formaed tonkor worked fine too. Tell me what weapon you want me to use, I'll use it. He'll still be viable. Well, unless it's a bow or something. That movement style works best with something that sprays or explodes: ignis, tonkor, secura penta, etc. Melee seems to work well, too, but I don't prefer it.

I didn't even use #2 or #4 in that video. #4 is great for raising teammates in survival or for when you get overrun with mobs, and #2 is good for getting out of a jam and running away. I also spent like 10 minutes running around T3S with no #3, just to test, and he managed fine. His real power is his passive, and #1.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Kanjirou

[Hidaru.]

Oh man if Blazing Chakram was effected by melee mods.....Power Throw and Whirlwind. woo! thatd be awesome lol

[rawr1254]

 

So...again all you're doing is running and gunning WAIT who can do that? omfg Volt! And he actually has other useful skills. Shock is great for CC, shield so you dont...die. Only thing Nezhas lucky to have is a ward-sponge. And then there's jet Stream Zephyr, AGAIN other useful skills. Nezha ONLY has Firewalker everything else is subpar.

Edited December 19, 2015 by rawr1254

[Kanjirou]

So...again all you're doing is running and gunning WAIT who can do that? omfg Volt! And he actually has other useful skills. Shock is great for CC, shield so you dont...die. Only thing Nezhas lucky to have is a ward-sponge. And then there's jet Stream Zephyr, AGAIN other useful skills. Nezha ONLY has Firewalker everything else is subpar.

K. I'm gonna go continue to outperform other people with my subpar frame. You can continue to rip on him on an internet forum. I'm happy with that arrangement.