Buffs Are Needed For Ne Zha. Any Word From De?

[-CM-Hekovashi]

K. I'm gonna go continue to outperform other people with my subpar frame. You can continue to rip on him on an internet forum. I'm happy with that arrangement.

Just don't forget your boltor prime, pro

[Kanjirou]

Just don't forget your boltor prime, pro

 

You completely ignored when I did the same thing with a gimped tonkor. Did that butt-hurt you?

Don't all raise your hands at once when I offer again: what primary would you *like* me to use? What would you consider a "legit test" of the frame's abilities? MK1-Braton?

[tripletriple]

He should have his 5 energy/ sec reduced to 1.5 at base.  Also that video only proves you can spray with the bolter prime. He does nothing but move fast. Don't know if you've played other warframes but they can do it better than him.

Edited December 19, 2015 by tripletriple

[-CM-Hekovashi]

You completely ignored when I did the same thing with a gimped tonkor. Did that butt-hurt you?

Don't all raise your hands at once when I offer again: what primary would you *like* me to use? What would you consider a "legit test" of the frame's abilities? MK1-Braton?

 "Gimped tonkor" nuff said

Edited December 19, 2015 by Hekovashi

[rawr1254]

He should have his 5 energy/ sec reduced to 1.5 at base.  Also that video only proves you can spray with the bolter prime. He does nothing but move fast. Don't know if you've played other warframes but they can do it better than him.

Even reducing it to 4/s would be better. I mean the min right now is 1.25 on it. 2 and under is managable with 2 being cuttin it close. Cause you gotta count in them mods youd wind up putting on him with that 1.5 the MIN would be what .10/sec? LOL What should be removed is the fact that when you teleport for the explosion firewalker turns off resulting in more energy usage turning it on and off.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

I don't get why all ppl who defend and says-just run and shoot it don't just use volt or zephyr with augs, like dude above mention-they outperform it with team buff, stun, increased speed from str in volt case and increased projectile speed+spd bonus from str in zephir. Maybe i don't get something, but they do exact same job only better

[DelialFallen]

Sure, fine.  Buff him, he sucks. (*wink*wink*)

 

Also: what's with the 'something no one ever asked for'?  I didn't know DE was at our beck and call.

[Kanjirou]

He should have his 5 energy/ sec reduced to 1.5 at base.  Also that video only proves you can spray with the bolter prime. He does nothing but move fast. Don't know if you've played other warframes but they can do it better than him.

lol ok, sure, when you post videos of you moving that fast with Nezha and then moving even faster with these other frames, I'll eat my hat for you. Until then, don't try to sell me a bridge in the desert, I have all frames except Ivara and nothing moves like Nezha moves. His whole point is hyper-mobility, that's what he's based around, and the very same people who are in this thread saying he sucks are the ones who think his slide passive is weird and should be removed. Coincidence? No. "Doing nothing but moving fast" is kind of something when it leads to high dmg dealt and low dmg taken and allows you to run 60 min high-tier survivals, etc.

[Sorise]

Sure, fine.  Buff him, he sucks. (*wink*wink*)

 

Also: what's with the 'something no one ever asked for'?  I didn't know DE was at our beck and call.

So if Becky asked you top hop on one leg and touch noise or to go warm up her car for her or asked you to go play with her, that means you are at her beck n call?

[rawr1254]

I don't get why all ppl who defend and says-just run and shoot it don't just use volt or zephyr with augs, like dude above mention-they outperform it with team buff, stun, increased speed from str in volt case and increased projectile speed+spd bonus from str in zephir. Maybe i don't get something, but they do exact same job only better

Yea and that's the problem. He needs more synergy or needs to be buffed or having something more to his skillset SOMETHING.

 

And I just noticed while skimming through the wiki, everyone who loves the frame builds for "Press 4 to win" which is what we're steering away from lately. Meaning everyone who says it's good has a completely useless 1/2/3 and thinks a 44m crappy bastille is what makes something good

[DelialFallen]

Yea and that's the problem. He needs more synergy or needs to be buffed or having something more to his skillset SOMETHING.

 

And I just noticed while skimming through the wiki, everyone who loves the frame builds for "Press 4 to win" which is what we're steering away from lately. Meaning everyone who says it's good has a completely useless 1/2/3 and thinks a 44m crappy bastille is what makes something good

 

Yeah, no.

 

His 1 is good, his 2 is amazing, his 3 has more health than IS (but not Ferrite, so mister Nose wins on that against Bombards), and his 4 is decent CC. -- it's no Bastille, but it's reliable.  You can build him for Jack of All (damage+CC+survivability), melee-centric+CC (max range, 190 power strength), or survivability.  Synergy is using his toolkit to its full potential, and his abilities do complement one another and do work well together.  It's not like Saryn's Miasma since rework (use 1, 2, 3 then 4... which no one does anyway because 1+Hikou with Toxin is better).

 

So far, there has been no content I've not been able to do very well with Nezha: that is be useful to my team (he does heal, like WoL, it's not perfect, but it's handy to have); not die easy; CC (1 is good if you make a carpet of flame, 2 does knock down a priority target, also opens up for heals, 3 can be modded to have a useful range when you need to be on the go, 4 is better and more reliable than Tentacle Swarm; quick on revives (meaning he gets there quick and doesn't die while reviving).  I've not taken him to any Raids, however.

 

The playstyle is different than other frames (kudos to DE for that again) in that, aside form Defense missions where everyone hunkers in Snow Globe, you just have to remain mobile.  I will admit he really sucks when you just stand still and brings nothing in that situation other than his 4.

 

The one thing I can say that might be worth revisiting is the cast speed of his abilities.  Natural Talent is pretty much mandatory on all builds in my experience.  I'm really not entirely certain what the gripe/issue is, to be frank.  Nezha is not a damage warframe and shines when that is accepted.  No one expects Nekros, Vauban, or Loki to put out great damage numbers, so why single Nezha out?  His whole shtick is CC with damage on the side, not damage with some CC.

 

Can he replace Rhino in a strict-comp group situation for deep endless?  No, he doesn't buff damage.  Can he take the spot of a hard CC like Vauban in similar situations?  No, Vauban is better, for longer, and more reliable.  Can he replace a ID Loki?  I'm not sure anything can replace an ID Loki, even if Nyx is pretty good nowadays.  So he's not the best candidate for 1 hour+, 50 waves+.  But he does pull his own up to those benchmarks.

 

[rawr1254]

 

LOL Yea. Like I said build for Press 4 2 win. 4.68/s on firewalker gl keeping that up lmfao. And his 4 being reliable my !. I just used it in my last game and 0 enemies got caught in it ZERO. Last I checked that meant unreliable. As for his 2 yea gl aiming that mid-fight against a horde of bombards/nullifiers/heavy gunners. It's AGAIN unreliable. His 3 is not amazing, it's ok, but not amazing. With his health/armor unlike Rhino who has even a tiny but more armor/health he has NO way of surviving that millisecond his ward goes down. His 1 is his ONLY redeeming skill.

Edited December 19, 2015 by rawr1254

[DelialFallen]

LOL Yea. Like I said build for Press 4 2 win. 4.68/s on firewalker gl keeping that up lmfao. And his 4 being reliable my !. I just used it in my last game and 0 enemies got caught in it ZERO. Last I checked that meant unreliable. As for his 2 yea gl aiming that mid-fight against a horde of bombards/nullifiers/heavy gunners. It's AGAIN unreliable. His 3 is not amazing, it's ok, but not amazing. With his health/armor unlike Rhino who has even a tiny but more armor/health he has NO way of surviving that millisecond his ward goes down. His 1 is his ONLY redeeming skill.

 

Yes, he is completely a press 1, 2, 3 and 4 to win.  You are correct (if you actually look at the Screenshot and not just skim, you'll no doubt note this is an all-rounder build, as all the green numbers indicate).

 

Also: you do know that the number of enemies trapped in your 4 depends on your Power Strength, yes?  If you build for full range without any Power Strength mods to compensate (I use Trans Fort maxed, Blind Rage 8, and Power Drift for my max range build (not pictured above)).  His 3 is just as useful as IS: meaning it's pretty good to avoid being knocked back.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Haldos
Cleaning.

[YasaiTsume]

Nezha needs a number work.

[tripletriple]

lol ok, sure, when you post videos of you moving that fast with Nezha and then moving even faster with these other frames, I'll eat my hat for you. Until then, don't try to sell me a bridge in the desert, I have all frames except Ivara and nothing moves like Nezha moves. His whole point is hyper-mobility, that's what he's based around, and the very same people who are in this thread saying he sucks are the ones who think his slide passive is weird and should be removed. Coincidence? No. "Doing nothing but moving fast" is kind of something when it leads to high dmg dealt and low dmg taken and allows you to run 60 min high-tier survivals, etc.

Sorry but I find it hard to believe you are very experienced with Warframe. The things you say are quick indicators to anyone. The video you posted is a video show casing the power of the bolter prime and not Ne Zha.

Furthermore firewalker is a 5 energy drain at base and only provides 20 % movement speed. You tell me how it is more effective then a 140 % movement speed from volt. Or zephyr jet stream with a built in shield that provides 40% + movement speed. Or loki and rhino prime (with arcane helm) they come with 1.3 base movement speed. Unlike Ne zha isn't a night mare to mod and can fit a rush for 30% movement speed and maglev if they wanted too. Both warframes being hard to hit.

Ne Zha is objectively and under powered frame. Your bolted prime cannot change that.

Edited December 19, 2015 by tripletriple

[rawr1254]

If you have less than 100% power strength, then no.  You would have less than 1 enemy trapped.

185% str -> 0 enemies trapped. Theory disproved. 

[Kanjirou]

Ne Zha is objectively and under powered frame. Your bolted prime cannot change that.

This is not an argument when I have offered to run any weapon you or others like and compare the numbers. No one will take me up on this because they're afraid I might actually be able to do just as well. And then what? They'd have to admit that Nezha actually is a decent frame, they just don't know how to play him.

So, I'm done debating this.

Tell me what primary you'd like me to use, or shut up about the boltor.

In the meantime, since you're so experienced and I'm not, why don't you back up your own claims about other frames being faster than him by posting your own videos. I'll be waiting with hushed anticipation.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Kanjirou

[BebopPrime]

*picture*

 

 

Hey, can you share your build? I'm using this one, but your stats seems better all around.

 

http://i.imgur.com/gtdZTVs.jpg

[Sorise]

Yeah, no.

 

His 1 is good, his 2 is amazing, his 3 has more health than IS (but not Ferrite, so mister Nose wins on that against Bombards), and his 4 is decent CC. -- it's no Bastille, but it's reliable.  You can build him for Jack of All (damage+CC+survivability), melee-centric+CC (max range, 190 power strength), or survivability.  Synergy is using his toolkit to its full potential, and his abilities do complement one another and do work well together.  It's not like Saryn's Miasma since rework (use 1, 2, 3 then 4... which no one does anyway because 1+Hikou with Toxin is better).

 

So far, there has been no content I've not been able to do very well with Nezha: that is be useful to my team (he does heal, like WoL, it's not perfect, but it's handy to have); not die easy; CC (1 is good if you make a carpet of flame, 2 does knock down a priority target, also opens up for heals, 3 can be modded to have a useful range when you need to be on the go, 4 is better and more reliable than Tentacle Swarm; quick on revives (meaning he gets there quick and doesn't die while reviving).  I've not taken him to any Raids, however.

 

The playstyle is different than other frames (kudos to DE for that again) in that, aside form Defense missions where everyone hunkers in Snow Globe, you just have to remain mobile.  I will admit he really sucks when you just stand still and brings nothing in that situation other than his 4.

 

The one thing I can say that might be worth revisiting is the cast speed of his abilities.  Natural Talent is pretty much mandatory on all builds in my experience.  I'm really not entirely certain what the gripe/issue is, to be frank.  Nezha is not a damage warframe and shines when that is accepted.  No one expects Nekros, Vauban, or Loki to put out great damage numbers, so why single Nezha out?  His whole shtick is CC with damage on the side, not damage with some CC.

 

Can he replace Rhino in a strict-comp group situation for deep endless?  No, he doesn't buff damage.  Can he take the spot of a hard CC like Vauban in similar situations?  No, Vauban is better, for longer, and more reliable.  Can he replace a ID Loki?  I'm not sure anything can replace an ID Loki, even if Nyx is pretty good nowadays.  So he's not the best candidate for 1 hour+, 50 waves+.  But he does pull his own up to those benchmarks.

 

His kit doesn't really do anything fun and interesting other than firewalk, impaling and warping(being made redundant by the new movement system). Chakram only heals, nothing more, but you can warp to it and explode but what does that do? Deactivate firewalk. The stun range is rather small. He can use more synergy and fun things to do for someone this awesome looking.

 

He looks like a prankster too. He's gotta be more fun then some healer. Spears is not enough. There's gotta be knockdowns as well. Anything to make him more fun to use. Such as sprouting flame wings while aim gliding to glide in any direction faster and longer with firewalk active(even aim glide up n down). A rocket powered bulletjump(w/ firewalk) with him forming a flame twister(w/ Halo active), etc.

 

Also...

 

Folks love fire...And they love fire doing damage. Fire is associated with damage so what you expect?

 

You just described another Oberon which no one wanted. But folks wanted a male Ember.

 

So in the end, he would be to closest to perhaps a Phoenix archetype or whatever this game can get to w/o the damage part.

 

He looks cool, feels cool, does cool things and uses fire so folks want him to actually do damage especially with Blazing Chakram since it functions as a glaive.

 

When he warps he causes an explosion, but what does that explosion do to help?

 

So there you have it, a speedy fun(to a limited extent, not for long) to use character that does more than heal and stab enemies with spears. Another Volt. Even "troll" the enemies with more than just two skills or simply do more damage with my synergy idea.

 

Either way, folks don't want another healer/status remover. So if he does not start doing damage soon, he'll  be tossed in the trash bin alongside Oberon. And I haven't seen Oby in ages.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Sorise

[hukurokuju5]

^ at least oberon has smite augment and  a heal from anywhere

[weezedog]

Blazing Chakram needs to scale with melee mods.

Get rid of the second animation on Divine Spears and allow it to be recast like you allowed Rhino Stomp to be recast. There's no need to be able to deactivate Divine Spears like you can now, I'd much rather be able to recast it without the massive delay of having to deactivate it then recast like it is now.

Edited December 20, 2015 by weezedog

[-CM-Hekovashi]

How can you know that comunity like new frame-if recruit starts to ask for it, ether it's a cc like nova\nyx\booben, damage protection like volt\frost, support like mirage\rhino\equinox\banshee\trin or mass damage dealer like excal\ash\ember. All other frames goes in to category of "Solo frame" aka useless to the team and gonna be plays only in pubs\survs\interceptions and nezha another brilliant example of this. Hek even oberon can contribute to the team more, especially with heal, status removal and massive radiation damage buff, but when last time you see someone asking for him?

Edited December 20, 2015 by Hekovashi

[rawr1254]

Blazing Chakram needs to scale with melee mods.

Get rid of the second animation on Divine Spears and allow it to be recast like you allowed Rhino Stomp to be recast. There's no need to be able to deactivate Divine Spears like you can now, I'd much rather be able to recast it without the massive delay of having to deactivate it then recast like it is now.

Yea i definitely needs to scale with melee mods. Maybe even throwing melee mods. I was honestly hoping it did by throwing on whirlwind on my Glaive P it didn't do nothing to it though sadly.

 

I really want to keep the 2nd cast but if you manually do the 2nd cast enemies originally impaled should be slammed while new enemies in the same area get impaled. This'd keep up the CC and damage in the area while almost making it a better Rhino Stomp rather than being ANOTHER Rhino Stomp.

[Ziegrif]

I do basically nothing but solo so here's my thoughts on it.

 

If you're building for his 4 you're better off using Rhino for Stomp as it does everything better than Nezhas 4th and has a shorter cast time.

His 3rd is a worse Iron Skin and thanks to Iron Skin taking armor into account you can reach a very high amount due to Ironclad Charge. Add to that that Nezhas 3rd can't take a hit past lvl 60 T4. Even Mirage can tank better with Eclipse. But it is invaluable for melee as it negates Knockdown just wish it stayed up longer.

 

Blazing Chakram heal is worse than simply using life strike. Teleport is pointless as I can easily Parkour to where I want and 11 meters of Teleport is nothing. If you want to actually Teleport use Loki Decoy Switch. The explosion tickles enemies when you teleport and switches off what I believe to be his best skill.

 

Fire Walker gives a speed boost = AMAZING. His fire trail can linger for a long while and is a great fly trap in large rooms. I basically focus on this skill and it's what kept me alive in T4 as I ran circles around a large room leaving the trail behind me to slow enemy advances down. It does bad dmg but they're standing still long enough to get Tonkored in the face. It feels unique to him.

 

If I had my way. His 2nd ability would take its range from Duration and its dmg from Melee mods so you could have it ping ponging around for like a minute at max duration.

 

His 3rd would Either stun enemies in a larger area or could get the new Evasion mechanic from one of the drift mods where it simply negates full dmg from something at a X% chance. Or just make it scale off Shield and Health mods. 3-4k isn't gonna cut it if you're alone against T4 60+ where you're better off then just running or making a camp somewhere high where you can press 4 and get down kill enemies and get back on high again. Or just out run everything.

 

I can see the utility in Firewalker for solo players. I really like that ability at least. You can get it to use 1.5 energy with 120% duration and 160% efficiency but if you go 100 eff and about 180% energy cost will be about 2.5 which feels kinda weird. So i'd make it so Duration had a larger impact to its energy cost.

 

Also I LOVE the maglev effect. Still put an exilus on him and currently in teh process of putting Forma into him.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Ziegrif

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Wukong and Nezha are a bit lacking, but they'll get better one day.

Wukong still has a ability that prevents death and abilitys that scale from melee, which both work great with huras stealth(pro tipp. Using the same concept on excal for a while as abilitys, slash dash in specific, don't break steath). Wukong has a pretty strong concept going what just isn't the case on a...close range mage?

Edited December 20, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108