Is The Hate For Wukong & Nezha Biased/unjustified ? (Discussion)

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

First and foremost, don't bring any toxicity here keep that in the feedback forums please thank youuu~

Hate for Wukong

Now I wanted to talk about the hate that Wukong and Nezha have both received shortly after there global releases. From what I've seen , people already had an opinion about the two frames before there release , in the case of Wukong ; he was called useless because in a devstream they only demonstrated 3 of his abilities ( Iron Jab, Cloudwalker, & Primal Fury) and through that demonstration people went for his abilities are "lackluster". But then on his release , the community quickly realized his 3rd ability 'defy', and ability that basically gives him the unkillability as a Valkyr. He finally had an ability that could give him a roll in a team, also arguably one of the most useful abilities ever. Then he quickly went from Lackluster to Broken... Before I tell you what I think about this lets go check out Nezha.

Hate for Nezha

Nezha, a frame that was originally leaked from China. The hate started at his appearance, calling him names I won't repeat . But then soon after he was also displayed on a devstream. It showed that his wide range of powers had a wide range of effects , this made me sooo excited to get my hands on him, so I quickly jumped on to the forums to express that & all I saw was hate *-* . More threads about his appearance and other threads that generally through him into the "Jack of all trades, Master of none" Oberon box. Ever where I looked, Reddit, YouTube, Forums it was all hate towards a frame that wasn't even out yet. About a month later he is released on PC . From what I saw through videos from my favorite youtubers , it seems like his dmg capabilities were mid tier at most, but his support and cc abilities were High tier end game. To me he seems like a really useful solo and team frame, but for some reason other people don't see that.

I believe the hate towards these two frames are not generated from the frame themselves but how De went about there releases. So basically all Salt, as in how they were leaked from another version of warframe that we don't have access too , the wait for these frames, and last and foremost the acquisition of these frames (Nitain Extract , Sorties)

But of course that's just my opinion. Do you believe the hate for Nezha and Wukong is justified? Thoughts below~

Edited December 20, 2015 by (PS4)Akuma_Asura_

[VampirePirate]

Hatred is never justified for any reason.

 

If people dislike the frames, fine.  Hatred is a completely different issue.

 

I would state where the hatred truly comes from, but... that will only cause people to comment with toxicity.  So i won't.

[Kastrel717]

World is Cruel.Who knows what justice is...

[ashrah]

i really  enjoy  playing wukong very fun to play nezha till waithing formas....

[YasaiTsume]

I don't hate them, unless someone finds a way to use them against me, their team mate.

Like the only reason I hate Limbo and Loki is their ability to CC their own team or hinder them.

At a very stretched extent : Zephyr's Tornados.

[DeMonkey]

Do I think it's justified? God no. I can't even begin to understand the viewpoint that certain people seem to display when it comes to the China frames. 

 

So many people who disliked the frames before they were released and for what reason? All I can think is that they're just racist and it's simply because they're based on Chinese mythology.

 

Both are good frames, both are fun, therefore I'm perfectly happy with them being in the game.

Edited December 20, 2015 by DeMonkey

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

I think hate us far to strong a word firstly.

It seems to me that some players just dislike the fact they are based on actual mythological characters and their abilities rather than a vaguely themed skill set being giving a fairly appropriate name.

[RawGritz]

Both are super fun and both still need some work/tweaks.

 

The hate is not justified on both their abilities and their presence in WF global build. Taoist inspired characters in a martial arts/sci-fi game?! yes please MOAR!!

[DrakeRaids]

They seem kind of bland is my issue. Just don't inspire me, and I hadn't heard much about them till they where released. Compared to Ivara who has a really cool and dynamic new play style Wukong and Nezhas abilities and numbers seemed kind of meh. Wukong can kinda tank ok but I already have a frame who does that really well! And Nezha feels equally redundant in my current roster without appealing visuals. New players may enjoy them, and great if they do! But for someone whose played this game for a long, long time it takes something new and interesting for me to invest into a new frame.

[RawGritz]

It seems to me that some players just dislike the fact they are based on actual mythological characters and their abilities rather than a vaguely themed skill set being giving a fairly appropriate name.

I agree. Funny that Greek, Norse and other mythologies were never scoffed at as themes in a Ninja-inspired game.

[Taddl]

I dont think that you need to interpret too much into that. No matter what in a game, someone is always going to dislike it.

 

Though I will agree that many are probably annoyed by the acquisition methods.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

Do I think it's justified? God no. I can't even begin to understand the viewpoint that certain people seem to display when it comes to the China frames. 

 

So many people who disliked the frames before they were released and for what reason? All I can think is that they're just racist and it's simply because they're based on Chinese mythology.

 

Both are good frames, both are fun, therefore I'm perfectly happy with them being in the game.

And that's how I feel about Wukong, I just can't seem to understand why people fee this way. But I'm trying, if it's based on prejudice, then let's try to look a little deeper, maybe people are afraid China will take over warframe ?

[RawGritz]

They seem kind of bland is my issue. Just don't inspire me, and I hadn't heard much about them till they where released. Compared to Ivara who has a really cool and dynamic new play style Wukong and Nezhas abilities and numbers seemed kind of meh. Wukong can kinda tank ok but I already have a frame who does that really well! And Nezha feels equally redundant in my current roster without appealing visuals. New players may enjoy them, and great if they do! But for someone whose played this game for a long, long time it takes something new and interesting for me to invest into a new frame.

Been playing the game since the very day it went into CLOSED beta...3 year ago. Nezha does not play like any frame to-date.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

Been playing the game since the very day it went into CLOSED beta...3 year ago. Nezha does not play like any frame to-date.

I haven't tried Nezha so I'd like to ask , do you think he brings something to the team that can help with high level and endless game modes ?

Edited December 20, 2015 by (PS4)Akuma_Asura_

[Zareek]

I havent tried Nezha, but I bought Wukong with plat. Wukong is an amazing frame in the sense that he is extremely viable. He might be on pair with valkyr with melee viability. Nezha is suppossedly pretty good himself too.

 

So both of them seems fun to play and viable. Their themes are fitting in the Warframe game. So why am I personally against them?

 

Well it's hard for me to pinpoint it really. It just seems like a forced entrance, completely void of any lore. I'm not saying the chinese are at fault here, DE has released frames that I also do not think should be in game, including Limbo.

 

Wukong and Nezha are nothing but content filler to me, void of any meaning.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Zareek

[RawGritz]

I haven't tried Nezha so I'd like to ask , do you think he brings something to the team that can help with high level and endless game modes ?

Yes and no. Right now he is pretty darn squishy. I did an hour long survival on the Moon with Concoculysts and Battlysts (sp*) spawning in packs of 6 with level 100 enemies. I went down more than I think I ever have. This is why...

 

Long cast animations on his Warding Halo to get your protection up. Even with my Halo absorbing 3000k dmg it would get gimped in a couple shots from level 100 enemies. 

 

But #1 will take off status procs for you or allies who walk through it. That helps a ton in higher levels.

 

Love his #2 but the range on the AOE is poo.

 

I feel he needs... https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/580700-nezha-and-his-disappointing-scaling/?p=6591635

Edited December 20, 2015 by RawGritz

[TotallyLagging]

200+ Nitain salt best salt

 

I haven't tried Nezha so I'd like to ask , do you think he brings something to the team that can help with high level and endless game modes ?

Haven't got him either ( lolsortiesdroptable ) but from what I've seen, he slides around, be pretty and occasionally CC enemies with spears.

 

... yeah, that's pretty much it. A spear-centric build miiiight work pretty well.

[Shin]

I get why they use chinese deities to pull customers but i have a thing against these designs. They are almost never unique, not that you can go unique but they could've done the thing they did with Loki. Name is there but shape and abilities are not. 

 

As for Ne Zha, i kinda like the fact that he can go really fast but from what i gathered his abilities kinda sucks damage wise. I could be wrong though. I just wish i could Remove the Chakram behind him. That would be nice.

[RawGritz]

200+ Nitain salt best salt

 

Haven't got him either ( lolsortiesdroptable ) but from what I've seen, he slides around, be pretty and occasionally CC enemies with spears.

 

... yeah, that's pretty much it. A spear-centric build miiiight work pretty well.

Firewalker is great CC too with 430+ dmg per second and assured fire procs which cause enemies to pause and flail around.

 

Firewalker also remove status procs on allies who walk through.

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

I don't hate or dislike wukong. It is a fun frame. It may be a little too wukong though. Not too Chinese. But like Loki isn't the Norse god. Wukong may be too literal. Doesn't mess anything up for me. But I could understand that point of view. Am I making sense?

[AoiiToori]

Two Nitainframes and a Sortieframe.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

I don't hate or dislike wukong. It is a fun frame. It may be a little too wukong though. Not too Chinese. But like Loki isn't the Norse god. Wukong may be too literal. Doesn't mess anything up for me. But I could understand that point of view. Am I making sense?

Yes I see what you mean, do you feel the same towards Nezha

[Lunaticked]

I think many people feel that it's pandering to a market they have no interest in. Wukong and Nezha are -distinctly- Chinese. It's an aesthetic that not many people care for. I imagine if they had alt skins that were more along the lines of the normal Warframe theme, people wouldn't mind so much. Truth be told, I kind of dislike Mesa's look for similar reasons.

 

Look at Loki and Valkyr. Norse in name only. Valkyr lacks any visual cues one would associate with a valkyrie, and Loki...well, if you looked at him nothing related to Norse mythology or anything specific to any depiction of Loki would come to mind.

 

Basically, it's too strongly linked to a culture and aesthetic that a large chunk of the player base has no interest in, no connection to, and no desire to see resources devoted to. It's pandering to 'them' and not 'us', and for most people...yes, it's absolutely a tribal mentality.

 

Also, Nezha being sort of feminine makes some people uncomfortable due to their own insecurities. But that's just funny.

[venon23]

well hate is dumb ...... dont like it dont play it problem solve
problems with this frames 
wukong offers a very intresting and new mechanics with cloud walk but the rest of his abilitys are nothing new defy is very similar with histeria and primal is very similar with Exalted blade
nezah while the looks of the frame are very girlish they realese 2 male frames atlas and wukong sowe comunity thing ivara and nezah was girls 
while nezah have very similiratys with other frames 1 speed volt  whormhole nova rhino iron skin  and Oldmiasma ( old build of saryin works nice with his ulty) but while this frames have very few new stuff nezahh is very fun too play cuz of the movimente mechanijs he have
while wukong dont see much place for him in game since valkyr can do the same better

and for steath missions we have loki so .....
this is the truth and is not hate are facts both of this frames have things that we already see and very few new things but they are nice too play nezah is a very cool frame too play one of my favs 

 

[EmptyDevil]

So many people who disliked the frames before they were released and for what reason? All I can think is that they're just racist and it's simply because they're based on Chinese mythology.

 

This was my thought as well. A lot of the comments i saw just looked like thinly-veiled racism. I saw some pretty weak arguments about Nezha and Wukong's abilities that could be used for pretty much every frame.