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Shield Gates For Players


EmptyDevil
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What is a Shield Gate?
 
A Shield Gate is a shield mechanic that prevents oneshot kills through shields to health.
 
Why should we have one?
 
- Shields do not effectively protect health because their is no damage buffer between the two. All damage steadily flows into your health from shields, as if there is nothing to differentiate them from each other. This would give the shields a beneficial additional trait alongside it's regen.
 
- A shield gate would enrich gameplay by removing oneshot kills against players and companions.
 
- It'll allow players freedom to react accordingly and how they choose to multiple high damage enemies without removing the enemy's threat.
 
- The fact that oneshot kills exist is a reason players place so much importance and strong preference on specific frames as well as very specific setups.
 
- it gives players a bit more build and frame freedom by allowing use of other things besides specialized niche builds + tactics(such as heavy CC spam in order to not get hit).
 
- It will make radiation procs more forgiving while keeping the threat of them.
 
- This would allow DE to set even higher enemy levels, enemy density, enemy types, or damage modifiers for an increase in challenge while minimizing the worry of enemies being impossibly strong.
 
 
 
Shield gate features
 
- Shield Gate - Shields always prevent damage from leaking over into health, if the damage is higher than your remaining shields(Does not have a cooldown).
 
- Shield Collapse Invulnerability(SCI) - Protects health for 1 second immediately only after shields have been depleted. Will not activate if the cooldown ends without shields having been present. Shields must have started recharging before this effect activates. Energy can be gained via Rage mod during the SCI at half it's effectiveness.(Has a cooldown of 10 seconds).
 
Note: The duration of the invulnerable phase is based on the duration of the red glowing outline present on our frames after shields break and health gets struck.
 
Picture of the red glowing outline for reference:
 
Spoiler

qyDN3fJ.png

 

 
That outline lasts for 1 second.
 
The cooldown would only apply to the invulnerability(SCI) period.
 
- Team shield restores, Blessing, Shield Polarize, Protect, Guardian, and any form of shield restoration wouldn't refresh the Shield Collapse Invulnerability(SCI) mechanic cooldown.
 
- Self-harm damage would completely bypass all shield gate features to prevent abuse.
 
- Abilities that apply damage reduction or make a frame virtually immortal could flag the invulnerability(SCI) mechanic as having been activated. It will immediately place it on cooldown when the ability is deactivated to keep it balanced.
 
List of abilities that fall under this category by flagging the invulnerability(SCI)
 
Undertow, Invisibility, Prowl, Smoke Screen, Hysteria, Cloud Walker, Rift Walk, Iron Skin, Warding Halo, Turbulence, Shatter Shield, Link, Hall of Mirrors, Eclipse(shadows), Defy, Arcane Trickery, Arcane Barrier, Naramon - Shadow Step, Blessing(upon applying damage reduction), Absorb, Shield of Shadows/Shadows of the dead(with Ancient Healer), Cloak Arrow(when casting on allies or companions), Mind Control(when used on Ancient healers), Banish, Vex Armor, Penumbra.
 
Why is the invulnerability(SCI) necessary?
 
The invulnerability is necessary to facilitate the survival of the player under hordes of enemy fire. Without this feature the gating effect would be insufficient as the player is frequently receiving fire from multiple sources.
 
Here are some scenarios detailing the Shield Gate:
 
Scenario 1
 
Your Warframe has 300300
 
You get shot by a bullet that deals 400 damage.
 
You are left with 0300.
 
Another bullet dealing 400 damage hits you but you don't take damage for 1.0 seconds. The 1.0 second invulnerability goes into cooldown for 10 seconds.
 
Your shields have not regenerated yet.
 
During that 10 second period a third bullet hits you.
 
You are left with 00 which results in your death.
 
Scenario 2
 
Your Warframe has 300300
 
You get shot by a bullet that deals 400 damage.
 
You are left with 0300.
 
Another bullet dealing 400 damage hits you but you don't take damage for 1.0 seconds. The 1.0 second invulnerability goes into cooldown for 10 seconds.
 
Your shields regenerated.
 
During that 10 second period a third bullet hits you.
 
You are left with 0300 (Your gate is still in effect to protect you from damage bleeding over into health).
 
You are immediately shot with another round but your invulnerability is on cooldown. You die instantly.
 
These scenario details 2 of the shield gate functions to show how it would protect against all oneshot kills while remaining balanced.
 
 
 
Here are some examples that detail Valkyr's Hysteria, Wukong's Defy, and damage reduction abilities:
 
Example 1
 
- Valkyr uses Hysteria.
 
- Valkyr's shield collapse invulnerability is flagged as active for the duration of hysteria(since she doesn't take damage while it's active).
 
- Valkyr toggles Hysteria off. (If Valkyr is to receive stored damage, it will be treated as self-harm and bypass the gate)
 
- Valkyr's shield collapse invulnerability immediately goes into cooldown. She does not get the 1.0 seconds of protection for 10 seconds because of using Hysteria.
 
- Valkyr takes health damage as normal.
 
Example 2
 
- Wukong uses Defy.
 
- Wukong's health invulnerability(SCI) is immediately disabled.
 
- Wukong toggles Defy off.
 
- His shield collapse invulnerability(SCI) immediately goes into cooldown.
 
 
Example 3
 
- Rhino uses Iron Skin. He has 1200450300.
 
- Rhino's health invulnerability(SCI) is immediately flagged and disabled for the duration of Iron Skin.
 
- Rhino takes 1700 damage. He is left with 00300
 
- His shields prevented the damage from bleeding over into health.
 
- His shield collapse invulnerability(SCI) immediately goes into cooldown the moment Iron Skin is destroyed.
 
- Rhino takes another hit against health and dies.
 
 
Redirection with Shield Gates*May be removed*
 
- Redirection should also split the shields into segments for every 300 shields(Thanks SonicDoragon).
 
- If cryogenic leakage hazard prevents your additional shields from exceeding 300, your shield won't get segmented in the affected portion.
 
- Overshields will be applied to the outermost segment and will not be segmented.
 
- Each segment would have it's own gate.
 
- Only the shield adjacent to the Warframe's health will keep it's SCI.
 
- Each segment will have an individual recharge delay. From health onward the delays will be 3 secs(default), 1.5 secs, and 1.5 secs.
 
- The Shields closest to health must finish recharging before the next segment's recharge delay begins.
 

Example with segmented shields
 
- A Volt has 1100 shields with maxed redirection.
 
- Every 300 additional shields become segmented by redirection.
 
- Volt's shields and health read as 300|350|450300

- An enemy with a gun that fires 3 rounds per second with 700 damage per round, fires at Volt.
 
- The first round hits Volt's first segment, leaving him at 0|350|450300. The first segment prevented the excess damage from bleeding into the second segment.

- The second round immediately hits Volt's second segment, leaving him at 0|0|450300.

- The third round destroys Volt's last segment leaving him at 0|0|0300.
 
- His shield collapse invulnerability(SCI) activates when the third segment is depleted.

 
 
Shield Gate Misconceptions
 
 
"This mechanic is overpowered"
 
- It is not overpowered because it has some vulnerabilities.
 
- It is most effective against high-damage single-hits such as snipers or explosives.
 
- It is less effective against automatic fire, shotgun pellets, and any multi-shot weapons.
 
- It is ineffective against toxin damage/procs(completely bypasses the gate), magnetic procs(essentially eliminates shields resulting in no gate), and slash procs.
 
 
"This will mess up Rage mod Builds"
 
- Energy from the Rage mod can be gained during the SCI but it will be less effective than actual health damage.
 
 
"This is power creep"
 
- Not in the slightest. Power creep is when newer content/additions trivialize the old by making the old less appealing by comparison(rewards, effectiveness, and etc).
 
- Warframe currently suffers a bit from this because frames without CC to spam aren't generally preferred for dire situations due to lack of survivability; they typically need an ability to avoid damage entirely or employ mass CC.
 
- This will help mitigate the general preference and gravitation toward the best CC spam/invulnerable/nigh-invulnerable over other useful abilities. It'll also allow for more enemy types to counter the best CC spam/invulnerable/nigh-invulnerable without gimping the squishy or ones without great CC.
 
 
 
Synopsis
 
A Shield Gate will allow players the freedom to use more options in high level/endless play without trivializing the enemy threat, or having a profound effect on lower levels by giving shields a small but greatly beneficial effect.
Edited by EmptyDevil
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This was posted alot of times already but yea, I like this idea more since it was well thought (with the balancing stuff). Upvoted.

 

Just be wary of incoming elitists and bashers, they will come soon. They always appear on these kinds of threads.

Edited by LisRestall
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Thank you guys. I'll be updating this as i think of more examples or changes.

 

Shield bleed through.

 

But yes, this is a welcome change.

 

I dont think it needs a 10 second cooldown though.

 

I considered it without the cooldown on the invulnerability phase but the presence of shield restoration abilities and restores would lead to abuse. So i left it where the gating effect is constantly active and the invulnerability is on a cooldown.

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Great to see this getting its own thread. Upvoted, obviously.

Of course, expect "git gud" comments. You defended yourself great so far (specially to those people who go all "THIS EXTREMELY SPECIFIC CASE THAT I PRESENT *presents extremely specific case* THAT COULD EASILY BE TAKEN CARE OF WITH SPECFIC MEASURES, MAKES THAT SYSTEM EXPLOITABLE, ENCE IT CANNOT BE APLIED IN THIS OR ANY CASE, IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. >:C "), though, so I have trust in you.

Edited by tnccs215
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Redirection becomes worthless, Fast Deflection becomes OP, anyone with the attention span to bullet jump in response to their shields going down is completely invulnerable. Great change.

More or less my thoughts. Do still like the concept of the gate itself, believe both shields and quick thinking should have this to counter 1-shots.
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Updated and added more detail to the opening post.

 

Redirection becomes worthless, Fast Deflection becomes OP

 

I disagree. Redirection will still maintain it's purpose of increasing shield capacity, which will allow you to take more shots in situations where oneshot kills aren't frequent before it is breached.

 

Fast Deflection becomes a mod that players will definitely consider for builds now. It increases the amount of shields you recover per second after recharge begins. There is no effect on the 3 second recharge delay.

 

 

anyone with the attention span to bullet jump in response to their shields going down is completely invulnerable.

 

Not true. They will be cued(1 second or less depending on situation) to the fact that they took some serious damage and should start evading if they don't want to drop. However, the player will still be vulnerable to hordes of enemy fire while bulletjumping and moving. Keep in mind that without shield refilling sources, shields only begin the recharge phase after 3 seconds of not receiving hits.

Edited by EmptyDevil
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While in theory this might be a good idea, consider the escalation it would cause. I mean imagine if this mechanic was symetrical (and well there's not really any reason for it not to be) enemies like Stalker or nullifiers become much more dangerous because their effective health becomes your weapon's listed damage, if it's greater than their shield value, and if it's timed invulnerability, then it's essentially infinite health.

 

That said, the concern that Shields provide little actual protection is a very big point, and something that might need to be addressed in a general manner.

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While in theory this might be a good idea, consider the escalation it would cause. I mean imagine if this mechanic was symetrical (and well there's not really any reason for it not to be) enemies like Stalker or nullifiers become much more dangerous because their effective health becomes your weapon's listed damage, if it's greater than their shield value, and if it's timed invulnerability, then it's essentially infinite health.

 

That said, the concern that Shields provide little actual protection is a very big point, and something that might need to be addressed in a general manner.

 

What do you mean by this mechanic being 'symmetrical'? If you're saying enemies need a shield gate, then i disagree with you a lot and i'm sure everyone else does as well. There is literally zero reason for enemies to have a shield gate due to their scaling. This thread is about players having a shield gate and only players. It's in the title and all of the detail is for the players to make this more clear.

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What do you mean by this mechanic being 'symmetrical'? If you're saying enemies need a shield gate, then i disagree with you a lot and i'm sure everyone else does as well. There is literally zero reason for enemies to have a shield gate due to their scaling. This thread is about players having a shield gate and only players. It's in the title and all of the detail is for the players to make this more clear.

Please allow Shield-gate to function for Companions in addition to players.

Sentinels getting 1-shot from AoE is very disheartening when said Sentinel is being used for short-lived Utility.

Under flagged SCI abilities:

Me being that guy* (Spoiled as text is more of input for OP rather than disagreement with a Balanced Shield Gate)

Suggestions:

You do not have Blessing which provides Damage Reduction to both health & Shields

-It makes it easier for a self-harming Trinity to keep 99% Blessing up for group

Since Self-harm does not trigger Shield- Gate nor SCI: Trinity self harms group has 99% Blessing

A teammate gets Shields removed (huge excessive) damage & Trinity reacts by Blessing cast followed immediately followed by Self-harm Blessing cast.

-1st Blessing Restores Shields and then drastically reduces DR allowing her to Self-harm to Quick-Thinking levels so follow up Blessing is limited 99% Blessing

(But this means a Trinity using any Form of Blessing would be flagging the SCI for the whole group)*

Arcane Trickery is listed in falagged SCI

But not Aracane Barrier or Naramon Shadow Step? (Trickery has a 10% chance to activate at Max Rank)

Also, Catalcylm & Banish for same reasons as Riftwalk although a Trolling Limbo...is a Trolling Limbo

Ivara Cloak Arrow for same reasons as Arcane Trickery, Shadow Step, Invisibility, Smoke Screen.

Nyx Absorb

Possibly Shield of Shadows for same reasons of Damage Reduction for SCI flagging along with: Healer Eximus specter, Mind Controlled Ancient/Corrupted Healer, Shadows of the Dead Ancient/Corrupted Healers

To be that guy for unique circumstances:

Slash Dash unlike other (Invincibility while dashing/charging-forward abilities) can be easily chained for the 10sec Cooldown.

Volt's Electric Shield is hard to balance around, so I have no thought on how that would work for balance.

There is 1 Ability that needs this feature to not apply:

Chroma Vex Armor

Just for the mechanics to work as intended

Vex Armor needs to be triggered/treated as a Self-harm flag*

Not sure if that makes sense, but like how you suggested Hysteria delayed damage is flagged as Self-harm bypassing Shield Gate and SCI

I recommend Defy and Vex Armor (Not to break current Rage Synergy) are also abilities that get flagged as Self-harm to by-pass Shield-gate.

Lastly this seems much more concise and thought out: most of the unique circumstances were already addressed.

I don't want to see another Covert Lethality dilemma*

(Players warned idea sounded 'OP' and DE rolled it out anyway only to tinker out Exalted Blade Wave Blade 1 shots and Heat Dagger/Sheev AoE Jump slam 1-shots.....deemed as exploits after-the-fact*)

Edited by (PS4)MrNishi
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Updated and added more detail to the opening post.

 

 

I disagree. Redirection will still maintain it's purpose of increasing shield capacity, which will allow you to take more shots in situations where oneshot kills aren't frequent before it is breached.

 

Fast Deflection becomes a mod that players will definitely consider for builds now. It increases the amount of shields you recover per second after recharge begins. There is no effect on the 3 second recharge delay.

 

 

 

Not true. They will be cued(1 second or less depending on situation) to the fact that they took some serious damage and should start evading if they don't want to drop. However, the player will still be vulnerable to hordes of enemy fire while bulletjumping and moving. Keep in mind that without shield refilling sources, shields only begin the recharge phase after 3 seconds of not receiving hits.

 

See, no.  You're wrong, because evading enemies for 3 seconds with a bullet jump is trivial and the '1 second' invulnerability isn't even an important thing here.  Most of the stuff that actually kills you does it with one hit that just kills you immediately.

 

In the non-endless star chart, you will absolutely never take enough damage to overcome a shield gate if you just bullet jump when your shields go down.  It will not ever happen, enemies just don't do enough damage to matter.  The only danger at that point is toxic damage and slash procs.  Once you start doing really high level stuff, the things that kill you are the things that just kill you straight through your shield, they don't have to hit you a whole bunch of times (Slash/heat procs and toxic remain, but a shield gate would still do nothing for those).

 

The only way to make a shield gate even remotely not overpoweringly godmoded would be to have the gate itself tied to a cooldown, and not some arbitrary additional unnecessary invulnerability period.  The invul isn't the problem with this, the 'ignore literally any hit every 3 seconds for every frame' is the problem in a game with bullet jumping.

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Please allow Shield-gate to function for Companions in addition to players.

Sentinels getting 1-shot from AoE is very disheartening when said Sentinel is being used for short-lived Utility.

 

I felt this was to be implied since our companions belong to us. I will add it in as well.

 

 

Under flagged SCI abilities:

Me being that guy* (Spoiled as text is more of input for OP rather than disagreement with a Balanced Shield Gate)

Suggestions:

You do not have Blessing which provides Damage Reduction to both health & Shields

-It makes it easier for a self-harming Trinity to keep 99% Blessing up for group

Since Self-harm does not trigger Shield- Gate nor SCI: Trinity self harms group has 99% Blessing

A teammate gets Shields removed (huge excessive) damage & Trinity reacts by Blessing cast followed immediately followed by Self-harm Blessing cast.

-1st Blessing Restores Shields and then drastically reduces DR allowing her to Self-harm to Quick-Thinking levels so follow up Blessing is limited 99% Blessing

(But this means a Trinity using any Form of Blessing would be flagging the SCI for the whole group)*

 

 

I was still considering if Trinity's Blessing should flag the SCI for the entire squad. The damage reduction from Blessing only applies to lost health, so lost of shields wouldn't provide a bonus. Trinity would need to cast Blessing when health is damaged.

 

I guess the best solution for Trinity is to flag the SCI when damage reduction is applied by Blessing.

 

 

Arcane Trickery is listed in falagged SCI

But not Aracane Barrier or Naramon Shadow Step? (Trickery has a 10% chance to activate at Max Rank)

Also, Catalcylm & Banish for same reasons as Riftwalk although a Trolling Limbo...is a Trolling Limbo

Ivara Cloak Arrow for same reasons as Arcane Trickery, Shadow Step, Invisibility, Smoke Screen.

Nyx Absorb

Possibly Shield of Shadows for same reasons of Damage Reduction for SCI flagging along with: Healer Eximus specter, Mind Controlled Ancient/Corrupted Healer, Shadows of the Dead Ancient/Corrupted Healers

To be that guy for unique circumstances:

Slash Dash unlike other (Invincibility while dashing/charging-forward abilities) can be easily chained for the 10sec Cooldown.

Volt's Electric Shield is hard to balance around, so I have no thought on how that would work for balance.

There is 1 Ability that needs this feature to not apply:

Chroma Vex Armor

Just for the mechanics to work as intended

Vex Armor needs to be triggered/treated as a Self-harm flag*

Not sure if that makes sense, but like how you suggested Hysteria delayed damage is flagged as Self-harm bypassing Shield Gate and SCI

I recommend Defy and Vex Armor (Not to break current Rage Synergy) are also abilities that get flagged as Self-harm to by-pass Shield-gate.

 

Some of these are definite oversights on my part and i will be adding them.

 

I don't particularly agree with adding a flag to localized protection abilities. This is why Frost's Snow Globe, Volt's Electric Shield, and Limbo's Cataclysm isn't listed. Ivara's cloak arrow may make sense since she can stick it on allies or companions.

 

I don't think dashing abilities should fall under this category because they aren't a form of extended invulnerability. The player will still remain just as vulnerable as they were before dashing. If it is a big issue, the iframes of said abilities could be removed.

 

I agree that the SCI should be flagged for Defy and Vex Armor. The gating doesn't need to be deactivate because it will not impede Rage synergy because it requires health damage.

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See, no.  You're wrong, because evading enemies for 3 seconds with a bullet jump is trivial and the '1 second' invulnerability isn't even an important thing here.  Most of the stuff that actually kills you does it with one hit that just kills you immediately.

 

In the non-endless star chart, you will absolutely never take enough damage to overcome a shield gate if you just bullet jump when your shields go down.  It will not ever happen, enemies just don't do enough damage to matter.  The only danger at that point is toxic damage and slash procs.  Once you start doing really high level stuff, the things that kill you are the things that just kill you straight through your shield, they don't have to hit you a whole bunch of times (Slash/heat procs and toxic remain, but a shield gate would still do nothing for those).

 

The only way to make a shield gate even remotely not overpoweringly godmoded would be to have the gate itself tied to a cooldown, and not some arbitrary additional unnecessary invulnerability period.  The invul isn't the problem with this, the 'ignore literally any hit every 3 seconds for every frame' is the problem in a game with bullet jumping.

 

You're wrong actually and just helping my point here by mentioning the non-endless star chart. The non-endless star chart lacks the enemy damage to entirely shoot through all shields and health; They can bring your shields down steadily but not in a single hit. It goes without saying that the shield gate would not have any profound effect on them.

 

This has already been discussed extensively in another thread prior to the creation of this one. The gate does not need a cooldown, only the invulnerability needs it. 

 

It's certainly not ignoring any hit because your shields are still taking that damage. I suppose you're actually saying you want oneshot kills to remain in game. I do not feel oneshot kills should be a part of gameplay.

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Please allow Shield-gate to function for Companions in addition to players.

Sentinels getting 1-shot from AoE is very disheartening when said Sentinel is being used for short-lived Utility.

Under flagged SCI abilities:

Me being that guy* (Spoiled as text is more of input for OP rather than disagreement with a Balanced Shield Gate)

Suggestions:

You do not have Blessing which provides Damage Reduction to both health & Shields

-It makes it easier for a self-harming Trinity to keep 99% Blessing up for group

Since Self-harm does not trigger Shield- Gate nor SCI: Trinity self harms group has 99% Blessing

A teammate gets Shields removed (huge excessive) damage & Trinity reacts by Blessing cast followed immediately followed by Self-harm Blessing cast.

-1st Blessing Restores Shields and then drastically reduces DR allowing her to Self-harm to Quick-Thinking levels so follow up Blessing is limited 99% Blessing

(But this means a Trinity using any Form of Blessing would be flagging the SCI for the whole group)*

Arcane Trickery is listed in falagged SCI

But not Aracane Barrier or Naramon Shadow Step? (Trickery has a 10% chance to activate at Max Rank)

Also, Catalcylm & Banish for same reasons as Riftwalk although a Trolling Limbo...is a Trolling Limbo

Ivara Cloak Arrow for same reasons as Arcane Trickery, Shadow Step, Invisibility, Smoke Screen.

Nyx Absorb

Possibly Shield of Shadows for same reasons of Damage Reduction for SCI flagging along with: Healer Eximus specter, Mind Controlled Ancient/Corrupted Healer, Shadows of the Dead Ancient/Corrupted Healers

To be that guy for unique circumstances:

Slash Dash unlike other (Invincibility while dashing/charging-forward abilities) can be easily chained for the 10sec Cooldown.

Volt's Electric Shield is hard to balance around, so I have no thought on how that would work for balance.

There is 1 Ability that needs this feature to not apply:

Chroma Vex Armor

Just for the mechanics to work as intended

Vex Armor needs to be triggered/treated as a Self-harm flag*

Not sure if that makes sense, but like how you suggested Hysteria delayed damage is flagged as Self-harm bypassing Shield Gate and SCI

I recommend Defy and Vex Armor (Not to break current Rage Synergy) are also abilities that get flagged as Self-harm to by-pass Shield-gate.

Lastly this seems much more concise and thought out: most of the unique circumstances were already addressed.

I don't want to see another Covert Lethality dilemma*

(Players warned idea sounded 'OP' and DE rolled it out anyway only to tinker out Exalted Blade Wave Blade 1 shots and Heat Dagger/Sheev AoE Jump slam 1-shots.....deemed as exploits after-the-fact*)

Are u serious? You think ppl will chain ability on ability while that 10s cooldown is active to get a 1s invul back?

Players will still focus on getting not damaged at all due to warframe abilities the shield gate will just help preventing literal oneshots from full-automatic guns in high levels

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