Vigor Vs Armored Agility

[(PSN)supersocc11]

For frames like atlas/chroma/valkyr, with vitality, steel fiber, quick thinking equipped,is it better to have armored agility or vigor? I like the idea of having the extra armor, but having a larger health pool works well with lifestrike and rage...so for high level content is the extra 45% armor noticeable on the tanky frames?

Side note, I'm not too concerned with the extra speed from armored agility since I run rush with my frames. Thanks!

[Guardian_Legion]

the extra armor does wonders for valkyr and chroma

[(PSN)jFresh215]

I think you should go with Vigor. You see diminishing returns with the extra armor. Plus you will have a larger health pool to pull from using quick thinkning, not to mention having visualy more health. I would say test them both in the simulcrum with a single frame and see how well you can face tank. 

[RagingGrizzly]

the extra armor does wonders for valkyr and chroma

Not as much valkyr when she has her godmode.

[Cyandana]

Both mods are pretty awful in comparison to other options. I would spend my fusion cores maxing Vitality/Redirection/Steel Fiber over either. Get mods that modify your Warframe's powers if you find yourself with extra slots. 

 

oorrr Wait for Primed Vigor :) 

[Darzk]

Rage and/or (P)Flow are better options than either.

[(PSN)supersocc11]

I think you should go with Vigor. You see diminishing returns with the extra armor. Plus you will have a larger health pool to pull from using quick thinkning, not to mention having visualy more health. I would say test them both in the simulcrum with a single frame and see how well you can face tank.

This is kinda what I'm leaning towards...I have primed flow, rage, QT, vitality all maxed. I also have maxed arcane guardian...so I think the extra health may be the direction I take for rage/QT synergy

[(PSN)robotwars7]

personally, I'd alo say Vigour. you don't really need AA on frames like Valkyr, her armour is already so high that with rage, she can effectively sponge countless bullets, which only serve to feed Hysteria. practically unkillable if you do it right.

[(PSN)supersocc11]

personally, I'd alo say Vigour. you don't really need AA on frames like Valkyr, her armour is already so high that with rage, she can effectively sponge countless bullets, which only serve to feed Hysteria. practically unkillable if you do it right.

I use atlas more than valkyr, but I think similar thinking applies to atlas.

[Eremitthefragger]

My Chroma got 440 shield(?) with Vigor which is just the amount (400 shield) you need to max Vex Armor's scorn in battle to get the (not modified) 3,5x armor multiplier. Anymore shield would be a waste in terms of Vex Armor's effectiveness and health-armor usage. Therefore I did not take Redirection at all.

 

Before I start with the look at the armor I would like to introduce you to my current Chroma build which I started making yesterday but I haven't tested him much out since I lacked Life Strike until today to get my health back and had no time to forma and put Exilus in:

Rejuvenation, (Power Drift), Streamline, Rage, Steel Fiber, Vigor, Continuity, Narrow Minded, Intensify, Vitality.

If maxed giving the following stats (via Warframe Builder):

860.00 health,420.00 shield capacity, 225.00 power, 735.00 armor, +45.00% power strength,+30.00% chance to resist knockdown, +30.00% power efficiency,+129.00% power duration, -66.00% power range

Vex Armor has 52.5 energy cost and Elemental Ward has 35. If I remember right, Power Energy was no problem due to Rage and I can imagine that Power Efficiency mods are not necessary if someone else manages energy income. Both Skills have the same duration with 57s.

 

From http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor alone I get:

350 base armor leads to 53.85% damage reduction,

735 w/ Steel Fiber leads to 71.01% damage reduction, and

892.5 w/ Steel Fiber and Armored Agility leads to 74.84%

 

I would think that Armored Agility is not worth giving like only 3% more damage reduction(, and if I get it right those 735 armor will give you ~350% effective health btw).

 

For the effects of Vex Armor's and Elemental Ward's armor multiplier I am not sure. You can read the article about Chroma's abilities in the wiki. I get it that Vex Armor is affected by Power Strength (+45% here, from Intensify and Power Drift). "Scorn is a multiplicative bonus applied to Chroma's total armor^[1] (e.g., with a maxed Steel Fiber and Intensify, [and Power Drift] Scorn will increase Chroma's total armor to a maximum of 350 × (1 + 1.1) × 3.5 × [1.45] = [3730.125] at rank 3). Scorn is applied after all additive armor bonuses have been accounted for, including the armor bonus from a [...] Cold damage Elemental Ward."

Adding Elemental Ward into the formula (1.5 x 1.45) it would be something like:
350 x (1 + 1.1 + 1.5 x 1.45) x 3.5 x 1.45 = 7593.47 armor

And with Armored Agility (+ 0.45):

350 x (1 + 1.1 + 0.45 + 1.5 x 1.45) x 3.5 x 1.45 = 8392.78 armor
 

So Elemental Ward buffs your armor by 2.175, Vex Armor buffs it by 5.075, you get 7593.47 armor in total. This exceeds the effective health graph the wiki gives us (http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/3/35/REH.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141112174620). Do we get 3900% effective health? Would that be 33540 health on Chroma?

Edited December 29, 2015 by Eremitthefragger

[ashrah]

steel fiber is enough.....some extra life can really save u

[Katinka]

Vigor on Valkyr gives 60 Shields and 120 Health (624 effective health if using maxed Steel Fiber)

Armored Agility on Valkyr gives 270 Armor (an extra 666 effective health if using maxed Vitality)

 

Personally, I prefer Armored Agility because I want to run ridiculously fast (Rush, Armored Agility and Speed Drift for 1.73 Sprint Speed).

[(PSN)supersocc11]

On my atlas, steel fiber and max arcane guardian I get around 1215 armor...with armored agility that would take it to 1417. At high levels, Is the extra 200 armor worth it over the extra 120 Health that would allow for more energy to be pooled using quick thinking? THIS is my real question.

[Eremitthefragger]

Ok, it took me so long to write and edit my post, three new posts were written meanwhile :D

[Eremitthefragger]

Warframe Builder even tells us that Vex Armor has 507.50% max armor multiplier. Just what I calculated.

[(PSN)supersocc11]

My Chroma got 440 shield(?) with Vigor which is just the amount (400 shield) you need to max Vex Armor's scorn in battle to get the (not modified) 3,5x armor multiplier. Anymore shield would be a waste in terms of Vex Armor's effectiveness and health-armor usage. Therefore I did not take Redirection at all.

Before I start with the look at the armor I would like to introduce you to my current Chroma build which I started making yesterday but I haven't tested him much out since I lacked Life Strike until today to get my health back and had no time to forma and put Exilus in:

Rejuvenation, (Power Drift), Streamline, Rage, Steel Fiber, Vigor, Continuity, Narrow Minded, Intensify, Vitality.

If maxed giving the following stats (via Warframe Builder):

860.00 health,420.00 shield capacity, 225.00 power, 735.00 armor, +45.00% power strength,+30.00% chance to resist knockdown, +30.00% power efficiency,+129.00% power duration, -66.00% power range

Vex Armor has 52.5 energy cost and Elemental Ward has 35. If I remember right, Power Energy was no problem due to Rage and I can imagine that Power Efficiency mods are not necessary if someone else manages energy income. Both Skills have the same duration with 57s.

From http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor alone I get:

350 base armor leads to 53.85% damage reduction,

735 w/ Steel Fiber leads to 71.01% damage reduction, and

892.5 w/ Steel Fiber and Armored Agility leads to 74.84%

I would think that Armored Agility is not worth giving like only 3% more damage reduction(, and if I get it right those 735 armor will give you ~350% effective health btw).

For the effects of Vex Armor's and Elemental Ward's armor multiplier I am not sure. You can read the article about Chroma's abilities in the wiki. I get it that Vex Armor is affected by Power Strength (+45% here, from Intensify and Power Drift). "Scorn is a multiplicative bonus applied to Chroma's total armor^[1] (e.g., with a maxed Steel Fiber and Intensify, [and Power Drift] Scorn will increase Chroma's total armor to a maximum of 350 × (1 + 1.1) × 3.5 × [1.45] = [3730.125] at rank 3). Scorn is applied after all additive armor bonuses have been accounted for, including the armor bonus from a [...] Cold damage Elemental Ward."

Adding Elemental Ward into the formula (1.5 x 1.45) it would be something like:

350 x (1 + 1.1 + 1.5 x 1.45) x 3.5 x 1.45 = 7593.47 armor

So Elemental Ward buffs your armor by 2.175, Vex Armor buffs it by 5.075, you get 7593.47 armor in total. This exceeds the effective health graph the wiki gives us (http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/3/35/REH.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141112174620). Do we get 3900% effective health?

Thanks for the details! I don't use chroma hardly at all, so unfortunately I can't give much input. The section that resonated with me though was when you said that you don't think that the 3% extra reduction is worth slotting armored agility over vigor in regards to chromas base stats (not including his abilities )...Did I understand you correctly?

[Eremitthefragger]

On my atlas, steel fiber and max arcane guardian I get around 1215 armor...with armored agility that would take it to 1417. At high levels, Is the extra 200 armor worth it over the extra 120 Health that would allow for more energy to be pooled using quick thinking? THIS is my real question.

I don't know Atlas and your Hp with him but I can say: 200 armor alone give you 166% effective health. If u have like 500 health you can go: 500 health + 120 health = 620 health, or you go 500 health x 1.66(200 armor = 166% effective health = 1.66) = 830 effective health.

 

If all that armor stuff is true, put armor in your frame.

But since it's effectiveness scales with health I suggest to go both. It's like your armor does protect even more.

 

But of course this is not 'usable' health since your frame will stay with 500 health. And I don't ever got to know what Quick Thinking is.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Eremitthefragger

[Eremitthefragger]

Thanks for the details! I don't use chroma hardly at all, so unfortunately I can't give much input. The section that resonated with me though was when you said that you don't think that the 3% extra reduction is worth slotting armored agility over vigor in regards to chromas base stats (not including his abilities )...Did I understand you correctly?

Coming back to Chroma, Vex Armor and Elemental Ward make him invincible and therefore these are his working horses. Letting that away for now:

 

740 health (without Vigor) and 735 armor alone (from Steel Fiber) would be like having 2590 health,

740 and 890 armor (from both) would be like 2960 health,

860 health (with Vigor) and 735 armor would be like having 3010 health, and

860 health and 890 armor would be like 3440 health.

 

With these alone I suggest you take Vigor with you because here comes the reason with the 400 shield again. If you totally use that for Vex Armor, Armored Agility comes in later because you can get another additional 900 armor but that means Vigor + Armored Agility.

 

I have to repeat it: I don't know if these are true. The effective health things were taken from this chart http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/3/35/REH.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141112174620

Edited December 29, 2015 by Eremitthefragger

[OldGodKing]

Dont bother stacking too much armor. Theres quite a fair bit of diminishing returns. Instead of modding to allow you to take hits, focus more on modding to help u avoid hits altogether.

Unless you already have Prime Flow installed, I would pick that over either of those you mentioned. Also if you play Atlas or any frame right, you wont need Quick Thinking. Its a crutch and that mod space could have been used for something more worthwhile.

Just my thoughts but if you really want to use either mods u mentioned, i'd pick vigor.

[Eremitthefragger]

If you want to calculate a little bit on your own:

(http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Armor)

Armor, Damage Reduction

600, 66.67% Valkyr

450, 60% Atlas

350, 53.85% Chroma

 

Armor, Damage Reduction 

1260, 80.77% Valkyr + Steel Fiber

945, 75.9% Atlas + Steel Fiber

735, 71.01% Chroma + Steel Fiber

 

Armor, Damage Reduction 

1530, 83.61% Valkyr + Steel Fiber + Armored Agility

1147.5, 79.27% Atlas + Steel Fiber + Armored Agility

892.5, 74.84% Chroma + Steel Fiber + Armored Agility

 

(Ice-)Chroma has armor multipliers giving him insane armor making him probably more tanky.

I don't know Atlas, he might be a better tank in terms of having crowd control. I don't know.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Eremitthefragger

[Eremitthefragger]

Dont bother stacking too much armor. [...] Instead of modding to allow you to take hits, focus more on modding to help u avoid hits altogether.

Unless you already have Prime Flow installed, I would pick that over either of those you mentioned. Also if you play Atlas or any frame right, you wont need Quick Thinking. Its a crutch and that mod space could have been used for something more worthwhile.

Just my thoughts but if you really want to use either mods u mentioned, i'd pick vigor.

Surely it depends on the situation. I do not even know where to play such a tank i tried to picture with Chroma but there are situation whre one might pick up a lot of damage. I think of a lot of toxin stuff or blast damage in sorties that likes to hit me through a globe. In my case I do not do enough damage with my weapons alone in sortie 3 and therefore would probably take Ember or Slow Nova.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Both useless. The extra armor/health is nothing compared to the possible extra ability effect you'd gain from adding more strength. Especially vigor is even kinda contraproductive as you gain extra shields, that do nothing for you but locking the energy regen trough rage. (Not even for chroma. Play him with raksa, one refresh=full armor)

[OldGodKing]

Surely it depends on the situation. I do not even know where to play such a tank i tried to picture with Chroma but there are situation whre one might pick up a lot of damage. I think of a lot of toxin stuff or blast damage in sorties that likes to hit me through a globe. In my case I do not do enough damage with my weapons alone in sortie 3 and therefore would probably take Ember or Slow Nova.

 

With Chroma, yeah you literally need to tank hits to get bonuses from his abilities especially since Chroma has virtually no CC at all unless you consider Spectral Breath and Effigy to an extent. As for the other 'tanks', they can survive without taking hits and better to prioritize that.

[Eremitthefragger]

With Chroma, yeah you literally need to tank hits to get bonuses from his abilities especially since Chroma has virtually no CC at all unless you consider Spectral Breath and Effigy to an extent. As for the other 'tanks', they can survive without taking hits and better to prioritize that.

But to heat Chroma up one only needs to take 400 shield and 100 health damage for his Vex Armor to buff at 100% and there's still a lot up his sleeves. Imho it's his lack of CC making him not that useful.

[ThorienKELL]

If you already have steel fiber, armored agility is not that good, you should use one or the other. I find slow frames tedious to use that's why I sometimes use armored agility on mid-high armored frames for general purpose gameplay.

I pick steel fiber only for frames that rely on it for important skill - currently only frost needs it. 

 

Vigor is very specific defensive mod that I use in very rare and specific cases. 

[Smokinwaffles43]

I would go with vigor. Maybe its just because I love big numbers. My frost prime (used for defense) has 1505 shields, I believe that's the highest you are able to go. But if you want to use armored agility for the speed, I just wouldn't bother. Using constant bullet jumps and sliding will keep a very constant high speed that isn't even affected by your sprint speed.