Mag Concerns

[MagPrime]

While I disagree with the OP's assessment, I really disagree with their suggested Shield Pol. rework.

 

The benefit to the team is the instant recharge of shields, if regen was a positive mechanic, then Fast Deflection would be used far more than it is now. 

 

From my experience, the only reason Mag can clear a room as effectively is due to the Corpus and Corrupted's habit of staying close to eachother - once they've spread out, Shield Pol. is fairly useless. 

 

She's been my main Warframe for two years now and I can honestly say that she isn't useless against the other factions, you just have to use her whole kit and not just Crush or Shield Pol.  

 

OP; how often have you played Mag?  

Edited December 29, 2015 by Noamuth

[Gurpgork]

You should probably call the thread "Nerf Shield Polarize".

 

I do agree with you. No ability should only be useful against one faction and sometimes two, and no ability should be able to unleash the absurd level of destruction on the battlefield.

 

But, yes, this change should absolutely not be made in a vacuum. Making a thread exclusively to discuss Shield Polarize was probably a bad move. As can be seen with the poster before me.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Gurpgork

[hukurokuju5]

most skills or mods  that affect or deal with shields are either super strong or super weak ( shield disruption what a POS)

 

also, they dont have any affect on over half the enemies in the game...

 

 

It might be good to make the skill more of a teambuff ( all tenno have shields ) as the OP mentioned, or drop the magnetic theme=shields association for some other zone control 

[Soketsu]

No ability should be able to unleash the absurd level of destruction on the battlefield.

 

it's a necessity, your weapons are not enough in order to take down a whole map of enemy lvl 80+ who kill you in 1 2 sec

[DrBorris]

 

While I disagree with the OP's assessment, I really disagree with their suggested Shield Pol. rework.

 

The benefit to the team is the instant recharge of shields, if regen was a positive mechanic, then Fast Deflection would be used far more than it is now. 

 

From my experience, the only reason Mag can clear a room as effectively is due to the Corpus and Corrupted's habit of staying close to eachother - once they've spread out, Shield Pol. is fairly useless. 

 

She's been my main Warframe for two years now and I can honestly say that she isn't useless against the other factions, you just have to use her whole kit and not just Crush or Shield Pol.  

 

OP; how often have you played Mag?  

Mag is my most used frame. I have not been using her much lately, but the time invested is there. I am not so sure I agree about that instant part, because it is not actually instant, you have to count in casting time. If Mag can restore 800 shields in one second that is actually more powerful than "instantly" restoring shields as she does now, you have to count in the casting. The problem with regen now is that it is two factor, recharge delay AND recharge rate. The suggested rework would remove the three second delay and recharge shields at a massive rate. Have you ever seen the immortal Oberon builds (Rage+QT+all mods devoted to Renewal)? It is kind of like that, but much more powerful.

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post + replies

[(XBOX)Rancheroni]

Just killing corpus isn't achieved off of base.  You have to build and tweak her in order to get the insta-kill shield polarize.  Also, mag is quite squishy if you arent fighting corpus, as her Shield Polarize augment doesn't help her against any other faction.  Mag is fine, she's getting a rework.  She has been indirectly nerfed just recently, with the Corpus Scrambus mob being added.  So mag is great at killing Corpus, that is her niche, just like Nova makes everything trivial, as does Vauban with Infested.  Shouldn't you be commending Mag on realizing her potential? Mag gets trash-talked all the time by several players across all platforms.  Stop complaining because someone who was using mag like she is intended to be used stole your kills.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

ppl are did 6 h survival vs corpus with 1 mag 2 trinity and nekros..... nag shield polarize is strongest ability in game vs corpus no competetion

 

You did not just use this as an example... You don't think that two Trinity's along with a Nekros, that if he is worth his salt, isn't just Desecrate did not contribute a large chunk to why Mag was even able to go six hours in survival? Bet my bottom dollar both Trinity's ran PT immortal build to keep upkeep and after a certain level, Nekros Shadows of the Dead Corpus start to put on loads of damage as enemies own damage scale quicker than their shields/health/armour which Shadow uses THEN buffs.

[DrBorris]

Just two more before I am off for a bit, It'll be interesting if this thread is locked or not when I get back, as that would be quite depressing if it was. So please, be civil (which it has been so far).

 

 

Just killing corpus isn't achieved off of base.  You have to build and tweak her in order to get the insta-kill shield polarize.  Also, mag is quite squishy if you arent fighting corpus, as her Shield Polarize augment doesn't help her against any other faction.  Mag is fine, she's getting a rework.  She has been indirectly nerfed just recently, with the Corpus Scrambus mob being added.  So mag is great at killing Corpus, that is her niche, just like Nova makes everything trivial, as does Vauban with Infested.  Shouldn't you be commending Mag on realizing her potential? Mag gets trash-talked all the time by several players across all platforms.  Stop complaining because someone who was using mag like she is intended to be used stole your kills.

Not really.... Shield polarize does 250% of the drained shields as damage to surrounding units, and due to Shielding being the majority of Corpus health it is a pretty much guaranteed one shot for all levels (except that one enemy that always survives, never been able to figure this part out). Then the base range for the explosion is 14 meters so... yeah, even a mag with no mods will one shot mobs forever. And again, there is a massive difference between a what Nova/Booben (Booben is not the king of infested he used to be, not sure why he keeps being brought up) does and Mag does. Nova and Vauban both CC the enemy, maybe increase damage, but stop there. You still need to actively kill the enemy. Mag skips that part, she just goes ahead and kills the enemy (instantly in a huge range too, remember when Nova had an instant cast? Yeah, that was nerfed (except that "rework" was eventually percieved as a buff)). It is one thing for Mag to have a niche, it is another for her to trivilize an entire faction. How is DE supposed to ever make Corpus a good fight? More cheap mechanics (cough, Modular Corpus, Nullifiers and Sapping Osprey)?

And funny, you said the same thing the guy above you said, the same thing I directly addressed in the OP (I have no problem with a Mag out damaging me in Corpus missions, I expect it, I see it as a challenge to out-damage them with Glaive Prime and Ivara)

Edited January 4, 2016 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post + reply

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

Just two more before I am off for a bit, It'll be interesting if this thread is locked or not when I get back, as that would be quite depressing if it was. So please, be civil (which it has been so far).

 

Not really.... Shield polarize does 250% of the drained shields as damage to surrounding units, and due to Shielding being the majority of Corpus health it is a pretty much guaranteed one shot for all levels (except that one enemy that always survives, never been able to figure this part out). Then the base range for the explosion is 14 meters so... yeah, even a mag with no mods will one shot mobs forever. And again, there is a massive difference between a what Nova/Booben (Booben is not the king of infested he used to be, not sure why he keeps being brought up) does. Nova and Vauban both CC the enemy, maybe increase damage, but stop there. You still need to actively kill the enemy. Mag skips that part, she just goes ahead and kills the enemy (instantly in a huge range too, remember when Nova had an instant cast? Yeah, that was nerfed (except that "rework" was eventually percieved as a buff. It is one thing for Mag to have a niche, it is another for her to trivilize an entire faction. How is DE supposed to ever make Corpus a good fight? More cheap mechanics (cough, Modular Corpus, Nullifiers and Sapping Osprey)?

And funny, you said the same thing the guy above you said, the same thing I directly addressed in the OP (I have no problem with a Mag out damaging me in Corpus missions, I expect it, I see it as a challenge to out-damage them with Glaive Prime and Ivara)

 

The one enemy that survives are the Corpus that actually have health. This shows you don't even pay attention to their ranks, let alone how often these Corpus that do not have crap for HP start to appear more and more often. Corpus Techs not only have double the HP of normal Corpus but create Osperies that are almost pure armour with little shields. Sure, the Osperies will create overshield on the Tech, but it's HP is high enough it can tank this easily. Levels start cranking up and its HP will get to the point a Shield Polarize cast tickles him even when surrounded.

 

Ran that Corpus Sortie recently. Even with a Nova using Molecular Prime Corpus Techs, Corpus Eximus, etc, where able to tank Shield Polarize. Sure, I murdered the fodder, but the elite units, once they get to a point, can survive quite well. That sortie perk wasn't more resistance, but more Eximus.

[Soketsu]

Fun fact: This is the first nerf thread I have ever posted. Normally I ask for buffs or more general reworks (that are basically buffs). I am yet to hear an argument on how Shield Polarize is not OP, only people saying "But these frames are OP too, so that (for some reason) means we shouldn't nerf Mag" and "Why not buff these frames" which I never alluded to the opposite of these statements. I want, dare I say it, balance. this involves nerfs, buffs and general reworks of all frames. Would you like me to make a Booben thread? Or are you just going to post how Hydroid needs a rework more?

 

fine ,but mag is already almost extinct, i do not wan to see her dead, and i think your idea will lead to this

 

beside why it is bad that she is "broken" against corpus ?

[DrBorris]

The one enemy that survives are the Corpus that actually have health. This shows you don't even pay attention to their ranks, let alone how often these Corpus that do not have crap for HP start to appear more and more often. Corpus Techs not only have double the HP of normal Corpus but create Osperies that are almost pure armour with little shields. Sure, the Osperies will create overshield on the Tech, but it's HP is high enough it can tank this easily. Levels start cranking up and its HP will get to the point a Shield Polarize cast tickles him even when surrounded.

 

Ran that Corpus Sortie recently. Even with a Nova using Molecular Prime Corpus Techs, Corpus Eximus, etc, where able to tank Shield Polarize. Sure, I murdered the fodder, but the elite units, once they get to a point, can survive quite well. That sortie perk wasn't more resistance, but more Eximus.

Eximus units have additional EHP and are a 10-15 levels higher than other spawns. So, in general, yes, a few Eximus unit will survive a blast. Don't use the Sortie modifiers as a root of balance, that will lead to a bad cycle of balance decisions. And the "one unit survive" thing happenes on all levels for me and seems to have nothing to do with health. More often than not it seems to be a MOA (I think it has to do with how Shield Polarize damage can't stack on enemies, so the one that does not die is the one who had did the damage. This is just a wild guess though). 

 

fine ,but mag is already almost extinct, i do not wan to see her dead, and i think your idea will lead to this

 

beside why it is bad that she is "broken" against corpus ?

"Why it is bad that she is 'broken' against Corpus?"? What, but, um, well, uhhhhh, because it is broken? This question confuses me. I thought the community agrees that broken is bad, we just don't agree on what is and is not broken. But nope, apparently it is okay for something to be broken.  

Edited December 29, 2015 by DrBorris

[Soketsu]

"Why it is bad that she is 'broken' against Corpus?"? What, but, um, well, uhhhhh, because it is broken? This question confuses me. I thought the community agrees that broken is bad, we just don't agree on what is and is not broken. But nope, apparently it is okay for something to be broken.  

 

I do not type broken, i type 'broken', not the same

 

and do not assume all guys from warframe community are almost the same, you may have some surprise

Edited December 29, 2015 by Soketsu

[(PSN)MrNishi]

A one trick pony that kills every Corpus with said trick. You can't use Sortie modifiers as a basis for balance, that will lead to bad decisions.

 

Yeah, Bullet Attractor kind of sucks now (It is pretty awesome with Sentients though). I made a quick note on it in one of the spoilers, but the thread is not about an entire Mag rework (which is needed for a Shield Polarize nerf to go through). You can tell me what you think of it though.

 

 

 

ppl are did 6 h survival vs corpus with 1 mag 2 trinity and nekros..... nag shield polarize is strongest ability in game vs corpus no competetion

After Bursas become normal Enemy units...will Mag still be as dominant against Corpus?

Seriously go to Simulacrum and spawn 5 Corpus Tech Heavies, 5 Nullifiers, 2 Isolator Bursas, and 3 Drover Bursas and a couple Modular Variants

-Shield Polarize doesn't trivialize newer Corpus units

(Just Newer Corpus units have not been dumped in Quantity to normal missions)

(Awaiting Corrupted Bursas and Modular Enemies, heck still waiting on Corrupted Disrupter and Sapping Osprey...)

A smaller base Range of 10-12m would make Shield Polarize less of a Tilesets Nuke and more of a high concentrated 'Don't come near me if you have Shields, fatal mistake'

Bullet Attractor while almost never used outside of Conclave is good against every faction....to a degree

Pull where enemies were gathered for easy multi-kill Melee Ground Finisher attack was the best pull ever...

Crush needs something to be more Infested friendly or possibly built-in Retribution Passive

The 6hr loses the advantage because not 1 but 2 Trinity's and Nekros to boot.

-If it had been a solo Mag 6hr Survival, then I would definitely say Shield Polarize is broken 'OP'

[IceColdHawk]

Dear DrBorris,

 

I'm here again just to say that you should wait for the incoming (don't ask me when) mag rework. Shield Polarize on its own is a bit out of the road but for this moment right now, asking for a mag nerf isn't the right way. Especially not shield polarize. We rather should wait for a (hopefully) nice rework which puts mag to the table of usable frames again also outside of corpus. And next time don't put the word ,,nerf" into a thread, it's ugly and not well--seen. ;) It only baits flames and locked threads and stuff like that. And be careful about frames that are already nerfed to death...better request reworks with good ideas for a whole new kit instead of just nerfing 1 ,,broken" ability.

 

Sincerely,

 

IceColdHawk

[BarneyD2]

 

I suppose posting 'Troll thread' without explaining myself was in rather poor taste, apologies.

 

Not a bad idea. Your post is actually rather well done; you've at least succeeded in attracting people to 'discuss'. But I actually really like your post.

 

You bring up a good point about Shield Polarise and how it turns an entire faction's strength against them to such a ridiculous extent, it's undeniably overpowered.

 

Your proposition to change it is... interesting. I'm not an expert on Mag and certainly don't play her enough to make a better suggestion, but I'm really hating the new trend of making everything toggleable.

 

The changes to the rest of her kit to synergise with your proposed Shield Polarise are also quite good. The bit about augments is honestly a separate thread entirely.

--

However, Mag is getting a rework, it's been announced as such. This means the rework is under development and, is subject to change... just not the community's proposed changes.

 

I've been around long enough to realise that, unfortunately, DE very rarely pays attention to such feedback threads as this; take Archwizard's enormous thread on proposed warframe changes that a huge amount of the community has contributed to—and STILL, very very little of it is actually incorporated. That thread has been around for a long time and keeps getting lost under other, useless threads asking for gender swaps or some bollocks.

 

It pains me to even type it out but DE probably won't even bat an eye at this thread, and not just because they're on a break for the holidays. The day they finally do listen to the sane suggestions, there'll be a resurgence of veterans, I almost guarantee it. Either that or the seas will dry up and the sun will explode.

 

Change the thread title to something like 'Shield Polarise Tweak'. A title like 'Nerf Mag' is click-baity and draws the wrong kind of people to the scene. Intelligent, rational posts like yours should not be buried with satirical images that contribute nothing to the discussion.

 

'Troll thread' does not refer to you; it's everyone else who can't resist but to gang up on someone with a different perspective.

 

/rant

 

bleugh, this always brings out the inner cynic. Also, +1 for remembering Viver, few seem to still remember that.

 

Edit: added links to Archwizard's profile and his thread, check 'em out.

Edited January 4, 2016 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden posts

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Why not rework/rebalance her? Shield polarice is just as o.p. as evry other ability in her kit is useless.

[BBYipho]

My oh my this is a large thread I haven't seen at all yet... Lets skim the other posts...  Oh boy.

 

Lets face the facts.  There is attention on Mag because some of her other skills are lacking and a large percentage of her usage is people who end up spamming Shield Polarize against Corpus.

 

The ability was made into the way it was before the higher enemy power creep.  As it ends up in higher content, enemies gained higher scaled shields which just made it more destructive.  Along with corrupt mods.  The current "nuke" button is just how the ability reacts to the higher power strength that did not exist before.  But I still think it should eliminate shields and do some kind of effect to make it worth while using.  I rather have more CC and support...

 

Even though lots of people may not like the most likely to happen ability nerf, we also have to understand the fixes they may add into her during a rework would possibly make her more desired for CC.  No Pull is a CC that makes it annoying for teammates to shoot targets as they fly around and Crush doesn't really stop them for that long.  Sometimes enemies effected by Crush just gets up too quick.

 

As some people pointed out DE_Scott has mention he is going to rework Mag during a stream.  So changes may happen to the ability while the others get worked on.

 

Also I'm surprised how many pages this thread got in the feedback section.  Was this in general earlier or does simple titles just draw this kind of attention?

 

I have my own rework thread.  OP may borrow info from it if he wants.  Though my section for Shield Polarize doesn't say anything about damage.  Just other functions it could do.  Then again I'm still looking for better suggestions for the base Shield Polarize.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/579718-mag-ability-reworks/

Seriously... Feel free to give me feedback there.  Mag threads sometimes get buried and the search tool doesn't like 3 letter words like Mag.

[Pacheon]

Instead, as already have been said, calling up for nerfs, why don't you guys simply stop this nonsense and go for buffing other frames? Oh yeah, too much work? Oh, wait, it's prolly just being jelly.

Mag IS fine as it is. A skill which scales with the enemy, what the hek do you want more on a bloody PVE GAME?! The most part of this community is pretty messed up. Seriously.

And your rework suggestion has no real meaning. Shields do have no affect on late game. Try a 40 min+ corpus mission with that rework (if it would be just possible), and you would see that shielding and recharging with 1600 shield/sec is just nothing at all. You will be downed instantly. Snipers will laugh at you, always.

[Shin]

Thats it. I've seen it all. "Nerf Mag". 

 

Good by cruel world forum. Good bye.

 

 

Its like All of her abilities are great and scales great into every aspect of the game. 

 

Pulls is not useless.

 

Bullet attractor is the most helpful ability in the whole Universe which causes us this much suffering.

 

Crush's damage is great and manages to kill even the level 100 mobs.

 

 

Oh lets not forget that Shield augment visuals she always had which DE totally didnt remove.

 

 

Ancient hooks, MOAs, and osprey are all ranged, Vauban is not the infested god he once was.

He still is. He can cast his abilities more than one time!. *Gasp HE CAN!

 

 

And getting 1000 shields per second is less effective than 10% DR from armor.... okay...

Shields doesnt mean a goddamn thing in the face of a lvl 100 Grineer Ballista.

 

 

Very VERY different. Everything you just said only CCs the enemy, you still have to kill them. Shield Polarize does the dirt work and kills everything.

Thats one way of interpreting it. Once a mob is CC'd they are as good as dead and once they are affected by any of those said CC abilities ANYTHING can one shot them. So doing it in a second or 5 seconds doesnt mean a thing. It just show's she's powerful WITH JUST ONE ABILITY and nothing more.

 

 

While there are some other frames with issues, none of them are as broken as Mag. Corpus will NEVER be any threat as lognas Shield Polarize exists. Well, that is unless DE puts in more cheap mechanics, but I don't really like the idea of that.

Mag is broken but not as the way you see her. She's only effective against Corpus and her abilities doesnt do a damn thing outside of the Corpus mags if you dont use that Crush augments. Even then the rest of her abilities are W-O-R-T-H-L-E-S-S.

 

 

Just like with this Mag rework, it must be paired with other changes.... aka get rid of broken armor scaling.

Then you will open up threads about every other frame that can do that. 

 

I can make a list . Mirage, Nova, Oberon, Ember, Saryn, Excalibur, Rhino, Ash, Mesa, Atlas, Equinox, Frost.

 

Because you know, they can reliability one shot an are of mobs with their abilities. 

 

 

Name one frame that can do to all factions what Mag can do to 1.

Take any frame from the list above.

 

 

I would love to enjoy fighting Corpus, but this thing exists that makes it so they basically do not exist as a faction. If you read the post you would See this is effectively a massive buff for anti-Grineer/Infested.

Dont use Mag.

 

/thread

 

Dont get in squads that uses Mag

 

/thread

 

Try to use mag in a high level Corpus mission where they got Comba's and Nullifiers to see if she's op anymore. She cant oneshot those 2 enemies which turns the whole Faction into a nightmare against Mag. Their weaponry oneshots you no matter how much shields you've got.

 

/thread

 

She needs a huge rework true but without ruining her only good ability. Also a Premium skin, that would be great.

[viperveteran]

Mag will get a rework in 2016 so leave her alone for now nerf kids. Why not buff Limbo or other s**t frames? Oh sorry, only nerf exists in this community.

Buff suggestions are usually met with a lot of resistance

[DrBorris]

 

After Bursas become normal Enemy units...will Mag still be as dominant against Corpus?

Seriously go to Simulacrum and spawn 5 Corpus Tech Heavies, 5 Nullifiers, 2 Isolator Bursas, and 3 Drover Bursas and a couple Modular Variants

-Shield Polarize doesn't trivialize newer Corpus units

(Just Newer Corpus units have not been dumped in Quantity to normal missions)

(Awaiting Corrupted Bursas and Modular Enemies, heck still waiting on Corrupted Disrupter and Sapping Osprey...)

A smaller base Range of 10-12m would make Shield Polarize less of a Tilesets Nuke and more of a high concentrated 'Don't come near me if you have Shields, fatal mistake'

Bullet Attractor while almost never used outside of Conclave is good against every faction....to a degree

Pull where enemies were gathered for easy multi-kill Melee Ground Finisher attack was the best pull ever...

Crush needs something to be more Infested friendly or possibly built-in Retribution Passive

The 6hr loses the advantage because not 1 but 2 Trinity's and Nekros to boot.

-If it had been a solo Mag 6hr Survival, then I would definitely say Shield Polarize is broken 'OP'

*Shudder* please no more poorly balanced corrupted enemies. You are right about newer Corpus units not being trivialized to the extent older units are, but do you think this is a coincidence? DE is having to intentionally balance Corpus around Mag, I feel like that is just going to eventually make Corpus hell for just about any other frame.

 

I personally hate the "Mg can go X long in a mission" comments because, well, pretty much ever frame can. Any frame can solo at least an hour in T$ survival, only problem would become broken armor scaling. If you have a full CP squad AND just one trin, any combination of other three frames would be able to go into the forever-game. It did help that Mag is the only frame that scales in such a powerful fashion with enemy level, but any combination, with enough communication, should be able to go that long.

 

Dear DrBorris,

 

I'm here again just to say that you should wait for the incoming (don't ask me when) mag rework. Shield Polarize on its own is a bit out of the road but for this moment right now, asking for a mag nerf isn't the right way. Especially not shield polarize. We rather should wait for a (hopefully) nice rework which puts mag to the table of usable frames again also outside of corpus. And next time don't put the word ,,nerf" into a thread, it's ugly and not well--seen. ;) It only baits flames and locked threads and stuff like that. And be careful about frames that are already nerfed to death...better request reworks with good ideas for a whole new kit instead of just nerfing 1 ,,broken" ability.

 

Sincerely,

 

IceColdHawk

DE took inspiration directly from the Forums for Excalibro's rework, obviously Mag has not had her rework set in stone so it would make sense, if I am gong to continue to tell myself that DE reads the Forums, to input some of my ideas and open up a discussion about Mag so that DE may get some more ideas.

 

Was "Nerf" click bait? Yes, but it really is the truth. I could just say "Rework", "Rebalance", or some other neutral term, but at the end of the day Shield Polarize needs a nerf. I did not just say "Nerf Shield Polarize" and drop the mic, I tried to come up with a rework of the ability that would hopefully make it more potent against all factions, but still have her be extremely potent against Corpus (but not in a game breaking fashion). No, you are being very reasonable with your post, don't go saying Mag has been nerfed to death, she has not been nerfed in quite some time if ever, she has just had her Augments nerfed (Why everyone focuses on the Greedy Pull nerf I will never know, the Shield Transference nerf was the real whammy). And I did say in the OP the big requirement for a shield polarize nerf would be the readjustment of her entire kit.

 

 

 

I suppose posting 'Troll thread' without explaining myself was in rather poor taste, apologies.

 

Not a bad idea. Your post is actually rather well done; you've at least succeeded in attracting people to 'discuss'. But I actually really like your post.

 

You bring up a good point about Shield Polarise and how it turns an entire faction's strength against them to such a ridiculous extent, it's undeniably overpowered.

 

Your proposition to change it is... interesting. I'm not an expert on Mag and certainly don't play her enough to make a better suggestion, but I'm really hating the new trend of making everything toggleable.

 

The changes to the rest of her kit to synergise with your proposed Shield Polarise are also quite good. The bit about augments is honestly a separate thread entirely.

--

However, Mag is getting a rework, it's been announced as such. This means the rework is under development and, is subject to change... just not the community's proposed changes.

 

I've been around long enough to realise that, unfortunately, DE very rarely pays attention to such feedback threads as this; take Archwizard's enormous thread on proposed warframe changes that a huge amount of the community has contributed to—and STILL, very very little of it is actually incorporated. That thread has been around for a long time and keeps getting lost under other, useless threads asking for gender swaps or some bollocks.

 

It pains me to even type it out but DE probably won't even bat an eye at this thread, and not just because they're on a break for the holidays. The day they finally do listen to the sane suggestions, there'll be a resurgence of veterans, I almost guarantee it. Either that or the seas will dry up and the sun will explode.

 

Change the thread title to something like 'Shield Polarise Tweak'. A title like 'Nerf Mag' is click-baity and draws the wrong kind of people to the scene. Intelligent, rational posts like yours should not be buried with satirical images that contribute nothing to the discussion.

 

'Troll thread' does not refer to you; it's everyone else who can't resist but to gang up on someone with a different perspective.

 

/rant

 

bleugh, this always brings out the inner cynic. Also, +1 for remembering Viver, few seem to still remember that.

 

Edit: added links to Archwizard's profile and his thread, check 'em out.

I have been keeping up on Archwizard's thread for quite some time, it was actually a comment I posted there about Mag that inspired me to go full topic on it. How the hell he is able to keep it up I will never understand, I have tried just about every "type" of thread and unfortunately, guess which type gets the most feedback.

 

It is quite irritating actually, I have had a few people say "This rework would ruin Mag and no one would ever use her," but the only comment directly addressing the rework was "It won't help against level 100 ballistas" (quality feedback).

 

#RememberViver Before Viver the "efficient" affinity farm did not exist. If you wanted to level you did some Survivals or Defenses. Yes, there were specific spots for farming, but they did not trivialize affinity gain. Viver was a shift in community psyche, ever sense then the primary goal is to grind affinity in the most efficient way possible. I am sure that we could have abused spawn mechanics before Viver, but for some reason it never became the meta until then (Syndicates were the catalyst for this change, I guess in a way we can blame all of this on syndicates). But this is off topic....

 

Honestly this thread is too far gone for a title change, maybe in a week or so I will repost with a more neutral title. I have seen too many threads (not my own) die because they were too... serious. It is quite depressing actually, someone posts a great idea and an accurate thread title and it will get maybe five comments and 10 +1s, then a person posts "Nerf X" and has "^title" as the only text within the post and they get 5+ pages of comments. I had to try it one day, and yes, I have learned my lesson.

 

My oh my this is a large thread I haven't seen at all yet... Lets skim the other posts...  Oh boy.

 

Lets face the facts.  There is attention on Mag because some of her other skills are lacking and a large percentage of her usage is people who end up spamming Shield Polarize against Corpus.

 

The ability was made into the way it was before the higher enemy power creep.  As it ends up in higher content, enemies gained higher scaled shields which just made it more destructive.  Along with corrupt mods.  The current "nuke" button is just how the ability reacts to the higher power strength that did not exist before.  But I still think it should eliminate shields and do some kind of effect to make it worth while using.  I rather have more CC and support...

 

Even though lots of people may not like the most likely to happen ability nerf, we also have to understand the fixes they may add into her during a rework would possibly make her more desired for CC.  No Pull is a CC that makes it annoying for teammates to shoot targets as they fly around and Crush doesn't really stop them for that long.  Sometimes enemies effected by Crush just gets up too quick.

 

As some people pointed out DE_Scott has mention he is going to rework Mag during a stream.  So changes may happen to the ability while the others get worked on.

 

Also I'm surprised how many pages this thread got in the feedback section.  Was this in general earlier or does simple titles just draw this kind of attention?

 

I have my own rework thread.  OP may borrow info from it if he wants.  Though my section for Shield Polarize doesn't say anything about damage.  Just other functions it could do.  Then again I'm still looking for better suggestions for the base Shield Polarize.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/579718-mag-ability-reworks/

Seriously... Feel free to give me feedback there.  Mag threads sometimes get buried and the search tool doesn't like 3 letter words like Mag.

Um, I did propose it removing shields at a % per second (so it would still scale). 30% per second is nothing to laugh at, especially if you throw some power strength mods on. I am not really sure Shield Polarize should be a CC ability, her other three already are in a sense. If Pull did not fling enemies around that map and... pulled... enemies to you it would be a great CC. Remember, Mag needs the whole rework for a nerf to go through. It did cross  my mind to have enemies under Shield Polarize's effects be staggered once their shields are removed, but it seemed a bit redundant.

 

It is threads like yours that are why I did not post reworks of her other abilities, I would basically just be stealing the thunder of those threads if I did. As I see pretty much every Mag rework thread kind of skips over Shield Polarizes ridiculous scaling, I went ahead and made a thread all about it. I put in some quick suggestions about her other abilities in one of the spoilers, but tried to keep it quick.

 

Nope, this has been in Warframes and Abilities since the beginning, putting "nerf" in a title is a powerful strategy, kind of like going to the dark side. Oh, and 90% of this is not feedback, very few have actually read the OP.

 

 

 

He still is. He can cast his abilities more than one time!. *Gasp HE CAN!

A) He does not instantly kill the enemies and B) that is a hell of a lot of casting to prevent any ranged unit from getting to you, that amount of casting is broken for any frame against any faction... we have issues with energy that need addressing.

 

Shields doesnt mean a goddamn thing in the face of a lvl 100 Grineer Ballista.

Ballistas have their own issues, they need a targeting time. They SHOULD only be able to hit you when standing still. The massive shield regen would be useful against the more common rapid fire of enemies. If an enemy is doing any less than 1000 shield per second you can just stand there and tank it (but the real power will be being able to run in and out of combat).

 

Thats one way of interpreting it. Once a mob is CC'd they are as good as dead and once they are affected by any of those said CC abilities ANYTHING can one shot them. So doing it in a second or 5 seconds doesnt mean a thing. It just show's she's powerful WITH JUST ONE ABILITY and nothing more.

Mg walks into a room, presses 2, everything dies. How is that at all comparable to CCing a group of enemies that you have to kill individually. And... because Shield Polarize scales with enemy level, it will still instantly kill the enemies while your guns may not.

 

Mag is broken but not as the way you see her. She's only effective against Corpus and her abilities doesnt do a damn thing outside of the Corpus mags if you dont use that Crush augments. Even then the rest of her abilities are W-O-R-T-H-L-E-S-S.

So I proposed making Shield Polarize useful against all Factions. And again, that is not an excuse to trivialize a faction the way she does. Also... massive ragdoll for 25 energy is worthless? And while Bullet Attractor sucks in some cases, there are some interesting strategies you can use to make it an interesting defensive ability. But this is the need for a whole Mag rework, I never said "Nerf Shield Polarize and stop there", quite the opposite, I said she needs everything tweaked before you change Shield Polarize.

 

Then you will open up threads about every other frame that can do that. 

 

I can make a list . Mirage, Nova, Oberon, Ember, Saryn, Excalibur, Rhino, Ash, Mesa, Atlas, Equinox, Frost.

 

Because you know, they can reliability one shot an are of mobs with their abilities. 

No... no, no, no, no, no. None of these frames walk in a room, push a button, and kill everything regardless of enemy level. You suggestions either A) turn the enemies into a potato that you still have to kill or B)Have a base damage thus at some point they will stop killing. They take time to kill the enemies, which is okay, but Mag instantly kills the enemies.

 

Take any frame from the list above.

Sigh, it is not that complicated.

 

Dont use Mag.

 

/thread

 

Dont get in squads that uses Mag

 

/thread

 

Try to use mag in a high level Corpus mission where they got Comba's and Nullifiers to see if she's op anymore. She cant oneshot those 2 enemies which turns the whole Faction into a nightmare against Mag. Their weaponry oneshots you no matter how much shields you've got.

 

/thread

Hey look guys, the all knowing has arrived with the definitive answers for everything WE ARE SAVED!

 

Dude, the "Don't use X" is the worst and must $&*^y way to respond to a balance thread. I, for one, like Mag. I like the CC from pull (but would prefer it to be more consistent), I like the odd ways to use Bullet Attractor (It is great for Sentients), and I LOVE the Crush animation. I do even like the instant shield recharge, even though it is quite weak.

 

I should not have to go out of my way to avoid something that is broken, that is counter intuitive and a bad thing from a developer's perspective. Are you one of the ones that says "Just avoid Limbo and leave him as he is." Sigh, sue me for wanting to make all Warframes balanced.

 

Well, we have defensive abilities, massive movement, and they have projectile weapons. The biggest threat in high level Corpus is those Sapping Osprey. Shields are what are supposed to make Corpus stronger, much like how Grinner use Armor to make them stronger. We should not be able to completely remove that trait instantly and turn it against them to boot.

Edited January 4, 2016 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[styxonfire]

Does Mag even need another nerf? Doesn't it take her a fairly long time to even start scaling well?

[IceColdHawk]

DE took inspiration directly from the Forums for Excalibro's rework, obviously Mag has not had her rework set in stone so it would make sense, if I am gong to continue to tell myself that DE reads the Forums, to input some of my ideas and open up a discussion about Mag so that DE may get some more ideas.

 

Was "Nerf" click bait? Yes, but it really is the truth. I could just say "Rework", "Rebalance", or some other neutral term, but at the end of the day Shield Polarize needs a nerf. I did not just say "Nerf Shield Polarize" and drop the mic, I tried to come up with a rework of the ability that would hopefully make it more potent against all factions, but still have her be extremely potent against Corpus (but not in a game breaking fashion). No, you are being very reasonable with your post, don't go saying Mag has been nerfed to death, she has not been nerfed in quite some time if ever, she has just had her Augments nerfed (Why everyone focuses on the Greedy Pull nerf I will never know, the Shield Transference nerf was the real whammy). And I did say in the OP the big requirement for a shield polarize nerf would be the readjustment of her entire kit.

I said nerfed to death because this is more or less just the truth. Yes her augments were nerfed but they refer to mag. Especially greedy pull which gave mag a reason for survival, resource farming or even...draco (but this style sucks to be honest).  She had some uses outside of corpus which was nice.

 

And about the shield transference nerf, receiving 50% of all depleted enemy shields as an own shield is in no doubt overpowered. Mag could kill and tank endlessly all summer long.

 

But for real now, mag doesn't need another nerf. Especially not shield polarize because that's her only reason to be playable. At least she can be used against corpus for now. And while you suggested that her other 3 abilities approve the use of shield polarize, it won't be enough to compensate. Unfortunately i'm one of those guys that are reviewing and discussing things instead of giving own suggestions. I'm not that creative to be honest. But it's enough for me to say that you won't come too far with what you've written. Not saying you should leave it, but don't expect many people to support you. Most only agree that they also don't like ,,Press-2-2-win". I don't like it either, but i also don't like useless frames.

[kleerr2]

Dear OP, i can just bash you for making the title ''Nerf Mag'', which is the main reason for the blind hate, BUT unlike other people that simply jump to conclusions, I'd like to make mine on the way, so let us begin...

 

Shield Polarize is now a toggle ability (not sure if it should be a 2.5 or 5 energy per second drain). When it is active, Mag and allies have their Shields turned into proto shields, makes shields begin to recharge instantly, and increases he recharge rate of shields by 4x. In addition, all enemy shields will be reduced by 25% per second (probably at .25 second intervals). 

 

So the ''New'' SP will be an active ability that will not only effect Mag herself, but ALL her allies aswell(i'm guessing kubrows and sentinels are included). The shields of Mag and party will not only recharge instantly(under fire), but also it will give x4 times additional recharge speed(Fast Deflection will more then likely be part of the equation, and by that i mean it will be increased x4 times aswell, as the effect is additive on the base shield recharge.). To top it all off enemies will lose 25% shields every 0.25 sec which equals 100% (all of their shields) for 1 second. I am also guessing that the effect on allies will only work as long as they are in range of the ability while active?

 

What does this mean? Well, for a Mag with max redirection (1110 shields) and an unmodded Shield Polarize she would regen shields at 282 shield per second. With a max power and Fast Deflection build that would be 1602 shield per second. That makes Mag quite tanky if you ask me, something that would be useful against all factions.

 

Let's just say that 175% power strength will equal 1200(roughly) instant shield recharge excluding the Fast Deflection mod... Now, if say, the augment still gives overshields we could be looking at about 2220 maximum amount of shields, if i am not mistaken(i think the overshields are x2 the amount of max standart shields). So in just 2 seconds (excluding Fast Deflection again) your shields can go from depleated to full... Just 2 seconds!!! And we are not talking just about Mag here, it is proposedly a party buff! So even if your teammate has just 500 shields, with overshields that will be 1k. 1k shields that will recharge regardless if under fire, in a mere second...

 

So... lets say that a balista will do 2220 dmg on hit, which will also be the max amount of shields for MAG... The very moment she does the dmg you will have 1200 shields up, and before you even manage to see, they will pop up to 2220 again. ''Scorch'' is probably the most dangerous (close range) ranged unit in the grineer ranks, BUT even it will not be able to deal with such ridiculousness...

This is not tanky mate, this is godmode... its not only godmode, its BROKEN godmode! But unlike other frames that also have invulnerable abilities, those abilities have drawbacks like: Valk being limited to only her claws, Limbo limited to 1 enemy at a time, Zephyr limited to godmode only against ranged targets, mostly corpus. What will Mag's limit be? The 2.5 - 5 energy(moddable) drain?

And to top it all off... It's a party buff... So basically ''SP is broken coz its a press 2 to win nuke that scales, and it is only usefull against corpus and some corrupted... So lets just make it even more broken, a party buff that makes everyone in the squad literally invincible, up to a very large amount of enemy lvl cap, but wait it will also drain all of the enemy's shields in just one second...''.

I'm sorry mate but overbuffing is not good either... and yea, that will most definetly be useful against all factions...

 

 

Because this post is mostly about Shield Polarize, I guess I should throw in some synergies too. 

-Pull: Actually pulls enemies to your feet. When Shield Polarize is active, the range is increased by 25%.

-Bullet Attractor: Make like absorb, all damage done to the enemy (and damage done during the orange bubble phase) is added to the explosion damage. If the Bullet Attracted enemy is also under Shield Polarize’s effects, they will receive 4x damage rather than 2x. 

-Crush: Make the immobilizing aspect of the augment part of her default kit (not the armor reduction part). If Shield Polarize is active, crush will do a radial knock down that is 2x Crush’s range when Mag does the crush part of the Crush animation.

 

We are goin B I G... Big, here folks so hang on to your hats!

-Pull: With both range mods maxed, its range is about 69 or so meters, so lets just turn on our party godmode and pull everything in 90 or so meters to our feet, without LOS. I mean meh, its just 25% more to those +-70 meters right?! Broken much?!

-Bullet Attractor: So.. let me just turn mah godmode on, activate BA on a shielded enemy, do x4 times dmg per hit, and when the enemy dies and the buble explodes, it will do ALL of the dmg we did on the enemy, to ALL enemies in X range, and since all enemies will lose their shields in just 1 second, everything will be insta nuked in BA's explosion range. I mean meh, even if the enemy has 500 health, my BoltorP will do atleast 6k on hit with x4 dmg, so everything in radius is all but doomed. Broken much?!

-Crush: With both range mods maxed, its range is 50 meters, so let me just activate my godmode again, and permaknockdownspam everything in 100 meters! I mean meh, its just knockdown that is x2 times Crush's max range, which is 50(if maxed) meters, and enemies need more than 3 seconds to get up. So, let me bring along a Trinity and lockdown the map with the #4 button(granted mag will not be the only frame that can do that).

- - - -

So all in all... you propose to rework a nuke ability, that is useful only against Corpus and some Corrupted, which scales with enemy lvls... into a broken godmode ability for the whole squad, and ontop of all that you want to buff all of her other abilities into OP brokenness aswell?!

Oh dear..

[bubbabenali]

 

Fixed link - damn mobile internet

Edited December 29, 2015 by bubbabenali