Naramon's Shadow Step Is Overpowered

[styxonfire]

(TL:DR? Shadow Step should be nerfed from 5>6>8>10 to 2>3>4>5 or 1>2>3>4 seconds worth of invisibility)

Now, before anyone goes like "Its overpowered to you because you haven't unlocked it" and what not, here are my three runs with Naramon's Shadow Step. Videos below since alot of people are too lazy to click spoilers.

 

(Freshly unlocked Shadow Step)

(Shadow Step thats one rank/level from max)

(Shadow Step thats one rank/level from max)


Note: Quick Melee can proc Shadow Step provided it crits. I was just pushing it with a full melee run.

Now, back to Naramon's Shadow Step. I'm not saying it should be removed, I'm saying that the invisibility duration is longer than it really needs to be. I haven't noticed if Stealth Multipliers apply on pretty much alerted enemies with Shadow Step, which I'm not gonna say it works or not, but what I'm more concerned about is the invisibility. Its only prerequisite to proc is just for a melee weapon to crit after activating Mind Spike once throughout the entire mission... thats it. You don't have to kill anyone with a crit to proc Shadow Step, which I like since it amps up the survivability of frames that can't really do much to survive in high level endurance missions or even in Sortie Endurance runs, but the duration is just too long.

In my Atlas T4S run, it was just a test on how effective it is for sheer survivability... which suddenly turned out to be how Shadow Step can help one's carelessness (thus why Viral and Electric strangely worked in T4 Survival for an hour and 5 minutes... which for goodness sakes I don't recommend in solo void endurance runs). That was just freshly unlocked, and since its invisibility duration was just 5 seconds, it was good enough that the enemy AI's could still engage often enough that they can still kill me a few times, but still I was able to extract.

In my Neutral Nova T4S run (Mobs are simply primed. They aren't slowed or sped up at all), it was just a test on the synergy of invisibility and sheer DPS. It was ranked up that I had 8 seconds of invisibility and at some point, after rewatching my own run, I felt like I didn't need to Prime anyone. I died due to sheer carelessness and overconfidence, but still finished it.

In my Hydroid T4S run, it was just a test to see what Shadow Step can do to help a frame that... honestly, has no chance in soloing T4 Survival on his own. What happened was I was playing Loki dressed up as Hydroid... thats it. I didn't know how I died in this one. My Hydroid run was the cleanest run compared to my Atlas and Nova runs... I dunno why, but okay.

Now, imagine putting Shadow Step on Wukong... who's pretty much "death can kiss my !" and raises his middle fingers in front of death's face, Excalibur, or even Valkyr. If Shadow Step can give Hydroid a good reason to NOT DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHACK EVERYTHING TILL YOU SEE YELLOW NUMBERS, imagine what could those three can do with 10 seconds of invisibility after maxing Shadow Step. Also, imagine if Shadow Step was strapped to a Slow Nova, a Nyx, Rhino, hell even add in an offensive Frost (even a defensive Frost can benefit from this), their abilities are amplified by the safety of "not getting hit" because no AI can see them.

Invisibility is arguably one of the best defensive abilities around, not just limited to Warframe. Why? 

 

"You can't fight what you can't see" - Bounty Hunter, DotA 2

Because if you don't have anything that can give you a visual on a target, you've just made it harder for yourself. In Warframe's case, its the other way around. You gave the AI's (based on their programming or whatever) no visual of you, thus why they aren't shooting. If killing is the best form of CC because everyone's dead, then the best form of survivability is the enemy not attacking you at all... because they can't see you.

So, how should Shadow Step be nerfed? Shadow Step should cap out at 4-5 seconds when maxed (scale it from 5>6>8>10 to 2>3>4>5 or 1>2>3>4). That should give any frame a chance to get out of a sticky situation like inside a Nullifier bubble (sometimes those guys just come out of nowhere) that has an Ancient and some heavy units in it, because Shadow Step can't be removed or debuffed by Nullifiers. Ten seconds of invisibility that can be used by any frame is just waiting to be abused.

Shadow Step makes the game (well, aside from Spy since Shadow Step arguably sucks there since you have to crit with your melee weapon... but thats it. Arguably useful in raids since all you have to do is crit with your melee weapon) easier than it pretty much already is. I hate to say it, but the current end-game we have can be cheesed by this

Edited December 30, 2015 by styxonfire

[[DE]Grzegorz]

How about we actually make Focus useful for veteran players instead of it being just another nigh-useless gimmick to grind?

 

For the last 2 years, I've been living in belief that Focus was supposed to be the ultimate overpower mode for players, instead, it's been designed for newbies.

[Nesit1]

Agree to errything.

[Rioma]

lol 1 second? when you finish your animation you'll already be out of stealth.

[Sakatchi]

-let me type you this book about this opinion I have-

See you're wrong

 

This isn't overpowered at all, because:

 

~We can in no way boost it past 10 seconds with mods or outside abilities.

~This ability takes time and effort, and having this nerfed to 4 seconds simply because you feel its overpowered, is a slap in the face.

 

What you have there is an opinion, and you're free to have it, but things should not be nerfed on opinions alone.

[styxonfire]

sigh just another day in the forums

 

Dunno what this means...

How about we actually make Focus useful for veteran players instead of it being just another nigh-useless gimmick to grind?

 

For the last 2 years, I've been living in belief that Focus was supposed to be the ultimate overpower mode for players, instead, it's been designed for newbies.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Agree to errything.

 

Thanks, mate :D

lol 1 second? when you finish your animation you'll already be out of stealth.

You can always grind for Focus affinity to rank it up to 4 seconds. There are guides regarding farming Focus affinity, it shouldn't be uber hard to farm for it.

[styxonfire]

See you're wrong

 

This isn't overpowered at all, because:

 

~We can in no way boost it past 10 seconds with mods or outside abilities.

~This ability takes time and effort, and having this nerfed to 4 seconds simply because you feel its overpowered, is a slap in the face.

 

What you have there is an opinion, and you're free to have it, but things should not be nerfed on opinions alone.

I've proven how overpowered it is. If it can turn Hydroid late game viable, when I haven't even maxed Shadow Step yet, then Shadow Step is working way too good in our current end-game that you can cheese it.

Edited December 29, 2015 by styxonfire

[CTanGod]

God forbbid the Focus system actually be worth all the grind and wait! (notice my sarcasm) The only thing you should complain about the Focus system is how the active parts of Focus are kind of useless.

[Sakatchi]

I've proven how overpowered it is. If it can turn Hydroid late game viable, when I haven't even maxed Shadow Step yet, then Shadow Step is working way too good in our current end-game that you can cheese it.

No, you've proven a 10 second invisibility on a 3 min cool down is useful, and worth investing in.  You yourself have decided you don't like it, which is fine, but you don't get to decide how other people play.

[Natsusane]

So we can go invisible on any frame, and that is overpowered in your opinion really? How about a dmg system where enemies get infinetely stronger as they increase in lvls but our warframes don't? Shadow step makes all frames and especially melee combat more viable, if you think that is overpowered I'm afraid youre beyond hope. As long as enemies are able to 1shot you at higher lvls there is no such thing as overpowered, no matter what weapon, frame, ability you use. (This goes for valkyrs invincibility as much as invisibility in general.)

[Rioma]

You can always grind for Focus affinity to rank it up to 4 seconds. There are guides regarding farming Focus affinity, it shouldn't be uber hard to farm for it.

i already have maxed shadow step and deadly intent and the cooldown reduction talent.  Took me pretty much everyday of the focus cap since release to get it there. I think the time it takes is justified. Not to mention i have to wait 4 minutes before the abilities even begin to take effect. Making it useless unless I'm in a endless mission. But it is very strong, but do you know what was stronger? When it was triggered by any crit xD ah good times.

[styxonfire]

God forbbid the Focus system actually be worth all the grind and wait! (notice my sarcasm) The only thing you should complain about the Focus system is how the active parts of Focus are kind of useless.

So... how are the other active Focus abilities useless? 

 

No, you've proven a 10 second invisibility on a 3 min cool down is useful, and worth investing in.  You yourself have decided you don't like it, which is fine, but you don't get to decide how other people play.

You see... ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CAST MIND SPIKE ONCE (LIKE, JUST ONCE! YOU DON'T HAVE TO CAST IT AGAIN  AFTER COOLING DOWN) AND IT GIVES YOU SHADOW STEP'S PASSIVE WHICH YOU CAN USE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! ITS ONLY REQUIREMENT TO PROC IS TO CRIT FROM YOUR MELEE WEAPON!

[Odik]

4 seconds energy per second anyone? Where is threads about deleting his focus passive?

Lets face simple fact : melee is garbage UNLESS enemies cant hurt you so you can chopchop them being safe. Engaging melee fight with bunch of 60++ lvls  opponents without this passive stealth would be not nice for you since oneshots flying around ? Every frame OP in this game . Lets remove powers and enjoy CS parody in space may be? O yes 8 hours interceptions by Ivara 100% cheesed with naramon stealth

[styxonfire]

So we can go invisible on any frame, and that is overpowered in your opinion really? How about a dmg system where enemies get infinetely stronger as they increase in lvls but our warframes don't? Shadow step makes all frames and especially melee combat more viable, if you think that is overpowered I'm afraid youre beyond hope. As long as enemies are able to 1shot you at higher lvls there is no such thing as overpowered, no matter what weapon, frame, ability you use. (This goes for valkyrs invincibility as much as invisibility in general.)

 

I'm just saying that the duration of Shadow Step is way too long that you can cheese it. You see, if you can sustain your invisibility for even just a decently long amount of time that the gap of visibility is too small to react on, a level 100 bombard won't shoot you even if you are straight in his face.

i already have maxed shadow step and deadly intent and the cooldown reduction talent.  Took me pretty much everyday of the focus cap since release to get it there. I think the time it takes is justified. Not to mention i have to wait 4 minutes before the abilities even begin to take effect. Making it useless unless I'm in a endless mission. But it is very strong, but do you know what was stronger? When it was triggered by any crit xD ah good times.

The fact that you just have to cast it once and have that much duration is already overpowered.

[Date_Terumune]

So? if it works well, leave it be damnit!

 

Nerf army everywhere, NO FUN ALLOWED!

 

That makes Hydro viable? cool! why break it? if you dont like it, Dont use it all all.

[styxonfire]

4 seconds energy per second anyone? Where is threads about deleting his focus passive?

Lets face simple fact : melee is garbage UNLESS enemies cant hurt you so you can chopchop them being safe. Engaging melee fight with bunch of 60++ lvls  opponents without this passive stealth would be not nice for you since oneshots flying around ? Every frame OP in this game . Lets remove powers and enjoy CS parody in space may be? O yes 8 hours interceptions by Ivara 100% cheesed with naramon stealth

 

No comment...

So? if it works well, leave it be damnit!

 

Nerf army everywhere, NO FUN ALLOWED!

 

That makes Hydro viable? cool! why break it? if you dont like it, Dont use it all all.

Because it will just make the game way easier than it already is. 

[EverybodyLovesCheese]

I think the OP is just saying, that a crit melee with shadow step, not factoring life supports, interception towers or cyropods, can possibly do any endless runs safely as long as he crits. Probably even an unranked frame. That makes warframe abilities and the warframes itself negligble, as long as you can do crit of course.

Edited December 29, 2015 by EverybodyLovesCheese

[Kthal]

Shadow Step is a little excessive, but Deadly Intent is underwhelming compared to the other passives.

 

If Deadly Intent was buffed enough to offset a reduction in duration to Shadow Step, that would be a fair rebalance.

 

 

Giving rough numbers, which work only if all are used:

   Reduce Shadow Step to 3/4/5/6 seconds

   Change Deadly Intent to +base chance

   Add +2 further ranks to Deadly Intent (This could be given to a number of Focus upgrades)

   Deadly Intent to +10/15/20/25/30/35%

[styxonfire]

Shadow Step is a little excessive, but Deadly Intent is underwhelming compared to the other passives.

 

If Deadly Intent was buffed enough to offset a reduction in duration to Shadow Step, that would be a fair rebalance.

 

 

Giving rough numbers, which work only if all are used:

   Reduce Shadow Step to 3/4/5/6 seconds

   Change Deadly Intent to +base chance

   Add +2 further ranks to Deadly Intent (This could be given to a number of Focus upgrades)

   Deadly Intent to +10/15/20/25/30/35%

I agree with you to be honest. But yeah, one question since I haven't noticed, is Deadly Intent an additive or not (well, I'm more of asking how it currently works so I have a better understanding on your suggestion)

[bl4ckhunter]

what you're saying in the op is that atlas, hydroid and nova and frames like that should not be able to do endless runs for an hour safely using shadow step while there's no problem if frames like ash, valkyr, wukong, loki, etch can do it fine without focus. well i beg to disagree, shadow step is not overpowerd if anything it levels the playing field for frames a bit. 

overpowered means that it outclasses something. standing as it is shadow step doesn't outclass anything, it's just a defensive power from focus, now focus is meant to be used so i fail to see why it shouldn't be useful, it's not like loki still doesn't do it better and easily.

 

I agree with you to be honest. But yeah, one question since I haven't noticed, is Deadly Intent an additive or not (well, I'm more of asking how it currently works so I have a better understanding on your suggestion)

 

deadly intent is multiplicative.

Edited December 29, 2015 by bl4ckhunter

[Kthal]

I agree with you to be honest. But yeah, one question since I haven't noticed, is Deadly Intent an additive or not (well, I'm more of asking how it currently works so I have a better understanding on your suggestion)

 

It seems to be multiplicative separately from crit chance mods.

 

Base chance x crit mods x Deadly Intent

15% (DNikana) x 1.6 (True Steel) = 24% crit chance

15% x 1.6 x 1.3 (Deadly Intent) = 31.2% crit chance

 

It's not very good, and making it an additive chance (like Arcane Avenger) would make it worthwhile.

[styxonfire]

what you're saying in the op is that atlas, hydroid and nova and frames like that should not be able to do endless runs for an hour safely using shadow step while there's no problem if frames like ash, valkyr, wukong, loki, etch can do it fine without focus. well i beg to disagree, shadow step is not overpowerd if anything it levels the playing field for frames a bit. 

overpowered means that it outclasses something. standing as it is shadow step doesn't outclass anything, it's just a defensive power from focus, now focus is meant to be used so i fail to see why it shouldn't be useful, it's not like loki still doesn't do it better and easily.

 

 

deadly intent is multiplicative.

Well, if you put Shadow Step in frames like the ones you've mentioned, it just further enhances what they are already capable of. With Ash and Loki, they have more than one ability to be invisible, Valkyr and Wukong would essentially be untouchable (Valkyr has invulnerability and Shadow Step counters her problems with Nullifiers, Wukong can arguably never have to turn Defy on), and if we add in Excalibur... it'd make high level endurance missions more trivial than it already is. That 10 seconds worth of invisibility that can be cast again by just hitting a critical attack and do it over and over again... thats overpowered. I mean, you don't have to kill anyone just to be invisible.

Its essentially power creep thats happening. 

[Shin]

Oh wow. Someone complaining about Focus being powerful and actually goes and calls it OP. I seriously think Reddit is right about forums sometimes. 

 

Focus was suppose to be powerful. It should be Overpowered as hell. Grind for Focus points is annoying and you dont really finish maxing one talent with a day like you can do with everything we have.

 

 

Focus must be OP. It should be worth our efforts and expectations. Its been waited for so long but the amount of trashy abilities almost killed it. We dont need Nerfs. We needs buffs and im saying this as a Madurai user who has nothing more than unnecessary IPS buffs with no visual or fun thing. 

 

Because it will just make the game way easier than it already is. 

Game is no way hard in any aspect. A player with 2 braincells to rub together can do anything. Shadow step doesnt make anything easier.

 

 

I've proven how overpowered it is. If it can turn Hydroid late game viable, when I haven't even maxed Shadow Step yet, then Shadow Step is working way too good in our current end-game that you can cheese it.

That proves nothing. Any frame is capable of doing any high level stuff. You dont need Shadow step to make them work in high levels. 

Edited December 31, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Removed Removed Post

[styxonfire]

It seems to be multiplicative separately from crit chance mods.

 

Base chance x crit mods x Deadly Intent

15% (DNikana) x 1.6 (True Steel) = 24% crit chance

15% x 1.6 x 1.3 (Deadly Intent) = 31.2% crit chance

 

It's not very good, and making it an additive chance (like Arcane Avenger) would make it worthwhile.

I think also having a one second or half second cooldown or fade duration procing Shadow Step would work out well. I mean, if use weapons like Scindo Prime, Tekko, Ankyros Prime, and even just vanilla Dual Cleavers, hell even put Tipedo in there, it'd be a good addition to that. I mean, in my Atlas vid, I could essentially refresh Shadow Step over and over again, even more so in my Nova run because there's no fade time or even a cooldown after the duration has ended. It'd essentially be an endless cycle of invisibility if we have that much crit as an additive.

[LisRestall]

People don't see that the core problem is Naramon itself "ALONE" can turn any frame into a Loki simply because the duration is too long.

 

Some say "Hey, you finally were able to do 1 hour T4S or cheese an end-game content with X frame yet you're ranting?" But doesn't consider the fact that Warframes has their own specialties, they need to be diverse. Wasn't that the purpose of having different Warframes? Naramon simply sh*ts on that game aspect and turns every frame into a Loki.

 

Now if you're gonna say, "Hey, at least Hydroid is now viable!" FFS Hydroid needs a rework not be forced to use Naramon to be viable aka BANDAID. How can people be so dense?

Edited December 29, 2015 by LisRestall