Double Damage: Nova Vs Rhino

[_Rue_]

The post is here:

http://warframechronicles.blogspot.com/2016/01/double-damage-rhino-vs-nova.html

 

The post compares the two abilities that help the team deal double damage (M Prime and Roar).

 

Suggestions for use is provided near the end.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Airwolfen]

Y not both :(

[Dark5eiD]

personally i think novas MP is better as it does more than just dmg buff. like it said in that article. with MP you can slow the enemy for cc, enemies explode and can chain and you can use speed  build for farming and etc. it is all dependent on what you are doing thou. some times you want the dmg buff but no cc and etc. really not exactly apples to apples. i think maybe mirages eclipse is a little more comparable minus its not so good range.

[Gelkor]

It's not a contest, because they stack. Use both.

[Zari2015]

Clearly Nova.

Now intervenes the proper squishy thing.

 

"What you want from Nova?"

 

-To be that Nova for fast 20 wave defense and get out?

-To be that Nova for slowing down the "entirely map", like in raid?

-To be that Nova for slowing down enemies form a fairly distance not be killed and nuking everything with proper equipment?

 

As a Nova player who takes her in every kind of missions i chose the 3rd "kind of Nova" (M Prime easy snipe Antimatter Drop and you don't need the augment).

 

Well let's explain the problem of some players this game.

People build frames around 1 ability which make frames reasonable useless for them in many situations.

Anyway in other opinions everyone is trying to defend his favorite frame despite the miss understanding facts, squad composition and raid composition.

In my opinion play with Nova 2 weeks than with Rhino 2 weeks, after that change them from a mission to another, you will se the difference but take this in mind use the build that you referred.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Zari2015

[_Rue_]

Y not both :(

 

It's not a contest, because they stack. Use both.

Based on gameplay experience, 4-tenno teams only take 1. Sometimes none.

personally i think novas MP is better as it does more than just dmg buff. like it said in that article. with MP you can slow the enemy for cc, enemies explode and can chain and you can use speed  build for farming and etc. it is all dependent on what you are doing thou. some times you want the dmg buff but no cc and etc. really not exactly apples to apples. i think maybe mirages eclipse is a little more comparable minus its not so good range.

exactly. The post outlines pros and cons and gives a suggestion based on this plus the mission being done or the objective.

[_Rue_]

Clearly Nova.

Now intervenes the proper squishy thing.

 

"What you want from Nova?"

 

-To be that Nova for fast 20 wave defense and get out?

-To be that Nova for slowing down the "entirely map", like in raid?

-To be that Nova for slowing down enemies form a fairly distance not be killed and nuking everything with proper equipment?

 

As a Nova player who takes her in every kind of missions i chose the 3rd "kind of Nova" (M Prime easy snipe Antimatter Drop and you don't need the augment).

 

Well let's explain the problem of some players this game.

People build frames around 1 ability which make frames reasonable useless for them in many situations.

Anyway in other opinions everyone is trying to defend his favorite frame despite the miss understanding facts, squad composition and raid composition.

In my opinion play with Nova 2 weeks than with Rhino 2 weeks, after that change them from a mission to another, you will se the difference but take this in mind use the build that you referred.

The problem is that... if you are going to use Nova for long range sniping, it takes some time before it affects enemies at a distance.

 

Another problem is that the more you kill, the more that spawns and the less control you get. You will then be forced to recast at non optimal intervals. This then creates a situation where you have to choose between optimal range and minimal gap.

[ThorienKELL]

I refuse to believe this is even the thing. Rhino bonus is just that, a bonus, rhino is no support frame. I never saw them used in that manner and there is reason for it. Can you build whole frame around that ability? Probably, as some sort of curiosity and a proof of concept. 

 

C'mon, let's get serious. Nova is debuff-cc-support queen, there is no contest here. 

[Airwolfen]

The problem is that... if you are going to use Nova for long range sniping, it takes some time before it affects enemies at a distance.

 

Another problem is that the more you kill, the more that spawns and the less control you get. You will then be forced to recast at non optimal intervals. This then creates a situation where you have to choose between optimal range and minimal gap.

 

Ok this time a serious reaction. :p

 

For a effective Roar rhino you need range, duration and power strength while nova needs duration only in order to maximize m-prime spread. range and power strength are to what the user wants though that usually results in negative power and positive range due to overextended.

 

Roar can be stronger effectively by almost 50% extra damage over m-prime but at a huge cost to duration and efficiency while nova is set at double damage not affected by mods (most important part is not negatively)

 

So my position like most is Nova over Rhino, why?

 

Rhino his range is limited, allies have to stay around you and the range of effectiveness to your allies just cant beat the range a high duration nova brings.

 

In the void defense map is big for example. Nova can easily prime enemies as they spawn, slowing both their movement speed and more importantly their attack speed and makes them take 2 times damage no matter what your power strength is at. You can run around between casts no problem to gain energy and allies or not bound to the position of the caster. Rhino is not so free however, allies need to be in range at each recast of roar in order to benefit from the effects and general builds will gave maybe around the same damage upgrade. He is even less useful in more free environments like the same map but with interception. Allies will simply be spread to far and not all team members will get the effects from roar while a nova at the middle point will effect the mobs at all  4 positions not only providing a damage boost but also protection, something Rhino just cant even.

[Swailwort]

Do you want a proper damage buffer frame?

USE BANSHEE. 15x damage multiplier, which can overlap with Resonance, which reaches max range almost instantly and you only have to aim. Hell, even AoE hits the spots.

Yet people think Banshee is useless for a reason... Aiming must be so hard.

[(PSN)abb12355]

Why not both? They stack, please don't compare, there 2 different frames with 2 different playstyles.

Do you want a proper damage buffer frame?

USE BANSHEE. 15x damage multiplier, which can overlap with Resonance, which reaches max range almost instantly and you only have to aim. Hell, even AoE hits the spots.

Yet people think Banshee is useless for a reason... Aiming must be so hard.

Yass Banshee is best damage buffer Imo.

[Epsik-kun]

If you want to buff RJ Excal in Draco, among the two you would choose Rhino, as he will provide you a stable damage boost for every cast, while Nova would only debuff 1-2 spawns over the duration of the MP wave (roughly 12 seconds), which is under 20% of total enemy spawn, if everything is done correctly.

In Defences Nova would be preferred not only because Defences without Fast Nova is the pain, but also because she will be able to MP up to all enemies, providing constant damage boost.

 

HOWEVER, why the hell would you need Rhino for Draco, when you can just have a Freeze Force Frost, who does buffing much better than Rhino? Ah, I know - because NO ONE USES FREEZE FORCE.

 

YOU. YES YOU. GO AND BUY YOURSELF A DAMNED FREEZE FORCE.

[Zari2015]

The problem is that... if you are going to use Nova for long range sniping, it takes some time before it affects enemies at a distance.

 

Another problem is that the more you kill, the more that spawns and the less control you get. You will then be forced to recast at non optimal intervals. This then creates a situation where you have to choose between optimal range and minimal gap.

I'm sorry but you are badly informed.

 

"In survival missions the max/min mob caps are set at a constant(constant needs testing) that will increase based upon time in mission along with their level."

 

"Defense missions are similar to those of survival, however rather than being based upon time it is based upon wave. It would also seem that in defense missions the constant is reset after every 5 waves(ie after reward has been offered) with an added amount(which will also increase per 5 waves). Enemies in defense missions will not despawn if they are around the defense point."

 

Source: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:FocusedTub/Enemy_spawns

 

To make you understand better they won't spawn faster anyway. Actually the game mechanic of spawn is in other than your regular thinking.

 

Example (just an example not related to general spawn game mechanic but seems to work in this manner):

 

Total map of 25 enemies increasing with 5 enemies every minute.

You managed to delay this spawn to 2 minutes (killing 25 enemies in 2 min).

In this 2 minutes in which you killed 25 enemies they won't spawn 30 enemies after 2 min mark they will spawn 35.

If you kill 25 enemies in less than a minute they will still spawn 25 enemies until they hit spawn timer.

 

Anyway in this game they seems to have an delay of a few seconds until the next spawn.

So in you effort killing them slower they won't spawn less enemies.

And saying again depends in your squad composition, even your skill to manage this.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Zari2015

[_Rue_]

I'm sorry but you are badly informed.

 

"In survival missions the max/min mob caps are set at a constant(constant needs testing) that will increase based upon time in mission along with their level."

 

"Defense missions are similar to those of survival, however rather than being based upon time it is based upon wave. It would also seem that in defense missions the constant is reset after every 5 waves(ie after reward has been offered) with an added amount(which will also increase per 5 waves). Enemies in defense missions will not despawn if they are around the defense point."

 

Source: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:FocusedTub/Enemy_spawns

 

To make you understand better they won't spawn faster anyway. Actually the game mechanic of spawn is in other than your regular thinking.

 

Example (just an example not related to general spawn game mechanic but seems to work in this manner):

 

Total map of 25 enemies increasing with 5 enemies every minute.

You managed to delay this spawn to 2 minutes (killing 25 enemies in 2 min).

In this 2 minutes in which you killed 25 enemies they won't spawn 30 enemies after 2 min mark they will spawn 35.

If you kill 25 enemies in less than a minute they will still spawn 25 enemies until they hit spawn timer.

 

Anyway in this game they seems to have an delay of a few seconds until the next spawn.

So in you effort killing them slower they won't spawn less enemies.

And saying again depends in your squad composition, even your skill to manage this.

Does this apply to interception? I should have specified that. I apologize for not being specific.

Edited January 6, 2016 by _Rue_

[_Rue_]

Do you want a proper damage buffer frame?

USE BANSHEE. 15x damage multiplier, which can overlap with Resonance, which reaches max range almost instantly and you only have to aim. Hell, even AoE hits the spots.

Yet people think Banshee is useless for a reason... Aiming must be so hard.

Yep. For weapons and certain powers.

 

For stomp, Radial Jav, Crush, etc, we still just have these two.

[_Rue_]

Ok this time a serious reaction. :p

 

For a effective Roar rhino you need range, duration and power strength while nova needs duration only in order to maximize m-prime spread. range and power strength are to what the user wants though that usually results in negative power and positive range due to overextended.

 

Roar can be stronger effectively by almost 50% extra damage over m-prime but at a huge cost to duration and efficiency while nova is set at double damage not affected by mods (most important part is not negatively)

 

So my position like most is Nova over Rhino, why?

 

Rhino his range is limited, allies have to stay around you and the range of effectiveness to your allies just cant beat the range a high duration nova brings.

 

In the void defense map is big for example. Nova can easily prime enemies as they spawn, slowing both their movement speed and more importantly their attack speed and makes them take 2 times damage no matter what your power strength is at. You can run around between casts no problem to gain energy and allies or not bound to the position of the caster. Rhino is not so free however, allies need to be in range at each recast of roar in order to benefit from the effects and general builds will gave maybe around the same damage upgrade. He is even less useful in more free environments like the same map but with interception. Allies will simply be spread to far and not all team members will get the effects from roar while a nova at the middle point will effect the mobs at all  4 positions not only providing a damage boost but also protection, something Rhino just cant even.

They have their benefits based on play style and team set up.

 

Not saying either is better, the goal is awareness. If this post made you more aware of the pros and cons or made you read up on your fave frame i'm good.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I'd say Nova is better, but Roar still helps Rhino contribute to team games in situations where Tanking is less required. I always bring Slowva to Sortie Interceptions, with High Power Strength enemies get slowed to a crawl, and then you can just finish them all off by unloading a mag of Boltor prime into an Antimatter Drop and laugh as you Michael Bay the entire map, wiping out everyone instantly.

 

only problem is that MP has to be cast over and over for newly-spawned mobs, whereas Duration Rhino works on everyone until it runs out. at the same time though, Nova can slow enemies without having to get too close.

 

both are great frames, so I say use what You're most comfortable with.

[Patemaani]

Yep. For weapons and certain powers.

 

For stomp, Radial Jav, Crush, etc, we still just have these two.

 

Every ability haves certain body part they target, Sonar will only affect them when that part is highlighted by sonar, for most abilities the targeted body part is torso tough there are exeptions. But in general sonar is ~1/10 chance to be on right place for ability damage amp on given enemy but resonance makes this more likely with each sonar spot kill triggering another spot.

 

EDIT: Meaning that while sonar is most damage it is also most inconsistant option at the same time.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Patemaani

[Epsik-kun]

these two.

Frost, Oberon, Ember.

[_Rue_]

Frost, Oberon, Ember.

augments yep. You know how rare a FF frost is? The Ember and Oberon buffers are even more elusive.

 

If only these were more common.

[_Rue_]

Every ability haves certain body part they target, Sonar will only affect them when that part is highlighted by sonar, for most abilities the targeted body part is torso tough there are exeptions. But in general sonar is ~1/10 chance to be on right place for ability damage amp on given enemy but resonance makes this more likely with each sonar spot kill triggering another spot.

 

EDIT: Meaning that while sonar is most damage it is also most inconsistant option at the same time.

I talked about consistent damage buffs in this post, but yes you make a good point.

[Epsik-kun]

You know how rare a FF frost is?

I am well aware of that. However, lately the amount of people who have these augments increased pretty noticeable.

 

Also, we have augment Mirage who is relatively well-known. If only DE didn't broke her damage buff...