Primed Bane Mods Math.

[Moghul]

If you're ok with having to swap builds for every faction

If you're ok with spending 500+ gold cores and far too many credits

If you're ok with 400 ducats+140k credits each per purchase or 1kk credits from trading + platinum

 

Then yeah these are good for you.

For the rest of us, I'd rather pick up a Vauban and a Tonkor for infested and for Corpus... come on.

 

At the very least it should have had one for Grineer.

 

Even then, when i see "side-grade to 90% elemental mod", I can't help but feel that that person doesn't quite see at what cost. Unless that rework comes with removal of straight damage mods like serration, I don't see how this is worth it. Fire and ice procs trump it.

[grimoireofalice]

A Primed Bane mod is actually better than a second 90% elemental.

Using a weapon with 100 base damage,

2 90%'s = 100+((100*90%)*2) = 280 damage. Simple enough.

1 90% + P Bane = (100+(100*90%))*155% = 294.5 damage. Not that much extra, but when you start piling on even more damage mods the difference becomes more and more obvious.

3 90%'s + P Bane = 100+((100*90%)*3)*155% = 518.5, 58.5 more damage than you would have with 4 90%'s.

For a community that is often considered to only care about damage numbers, the reaction to these mods has been rather funny.

The Corpus one is phenomenal, afaik most of us run toxin on our weapons to ignore the shields and therefore we can't have 2 different types of elemental damage. This is a fantastic addition.

Guess what I want to say is, don't fly off the handle without actually thinking about things, these mods are a nice addition.

 

Erm... I think your math might be wrong, surely bane would also multiply the base 100 damage in your example?

 

You get don't get 518.5 from your sum 100+((100*90%)*3)*155%

You get it from 100+(((100*90%)*3)*155%)

 

100+((100*90%)*3)*155% comes to 573 by my amateur math...

Edited January 8, 2016 by grimoireofalice

[Inarticulate]

From one of the other threads, here's how weapons compare when replacing 90% elementals with a Primed Bane mod based on how many you can normally fit:

 

I can see these being useful against Corpus on a weapon that normally holds 4 elemental mods where you'd normally use Magnetic plus 2 Toxin mods. You'd be able to replace the second Toxin mod with Primed Bane of Corpus. The end result would be less Toxin damage, but noticeably more overall damage.

 

 

Weapon with 100 average damage after damage, multi-shot, and critical mods would look like this:

 

4 90% elemental mods: 460 damage.

3 90% elemental mods + Primed Bane: 575 damage (25% improvement).

Three elementals is a common build, so non-status weapons that normally have space for 4 elementals will do very well giving up one elemental mod for the Primed Bane mod.

 

3 90% elemental mods: 370 damage.

2 90% elemental mods + Primed Bane: 434 damage (17% improvement).

I'm going to argue that the proc from the third elemental isn't going to be enough to out-weigh the substantial increase in damage gained from switching it out for a Primed Bane mod, especially because you generally aren't using the 90% elemental mods on a status weapon.

 

2 90% elemental mods: 280 damage.

1 90% elemental mod + Primed Bane: 295 damage (5% improvement).

Not worth it to switch to a Primed Bane mod unless the weapon is base elemental and you can make the desired combined element with one mod.

 

Status weapons will have to be a case-by-case basis depending on how much status you're willing to give up and what elemental damage types you're changing. For example, weapons that hit near-100% status after 3 90% elemental mods can certainly give up the last mod slot for a Primed Bane mod, at the very least, if the elemental damage types still line up.

 

Useless in the Void because Corrupted is its own faction and there is no Bane of Corrupted mod, but this would work great in sorties.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Inarticulate

[Zerdfer]

Sorties are easy, and quite ironically, you dont need to kill enemies in raids haha (even if you have to, thay are not that hard to kill either)

 

The tonkor build I use http://goo.gl/T3XIGL A bane mod won't fit ... And no, I am not removing firestorm, or an elemental mod.

 

And I don't see the point of spending so much ressources buying and ranking up a primed mod that as so many disadvantages. So like I said, thanks, but no thanks.

 

If it was an uncommun rank 10 mod and if its cost was around 100 ducats, I might eventually, maybe, consider buying it. But just to own it, since I will probably never use it.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Zerdfer

[Arrectius]

Ok lets do some math: Serration 165% damage Split Chamber 90% multishot *Heavy Caliber 165% damage Elemental Mods (Ice,Fire, Toxin, Electricity) 90% each one Event Mods (Slash, Impact, Puncture) 120% each one New Faction mods - 55% damage increase. 

 

We all know, that serration and heavy caliber affects the basic damage of the weapon. And i daresay these are mandatory on any build or well at least serration is, H.C is definitly not an option on some weapons. Regarless of that lets call the basic damage afected by Serration and/or HC, our initial damage. So now, we have the elemental mods that apply over the initial damage, increasing the damage each one by 90%. (So 2 is 180%, three 180% and four 360%) Now the event mods apply on the initial damage but only on the assigned stat. Saying these, these mods are useful on weapons that have a single stat focused damage (slash, puncture, impact), i daresay when that stat is around the 90% of the damage. And totally gargabe on weapons that dont use those stats (amprex, ignis).

 

- Ok for Split chamber is overall a 90% damage increase over the (initial damage + elemental + event mods) And now for the faction mods, these apply after all these.

 

* So is 1.55x1.9x[ initial damage X (1+(0.9).(#elements)) X EM ] I wrote EM for the event mod cuz the math involved on that depends on the weapon itself.

 

Now with the basics down, lets get some numbers:

 

* Faction mod, Serration, HC, S.Chamber, 2 elemental, 2 other random mods. 1.55x1.9x( (BDx1.65+BDx1.65)x2.8 ) = 27.21xBD

Serration, HC, S.Chamber, 3 elemental, 2 other random mods. 1.9x( (BDx1.65+BDx1.65)x3.7 ) = 23.2xBD

 

* Faction mod, Serration, HC, S.Chamber, 3 elemental, 1 other random mods. 1.55x1.9x( (BDx1.65+BDx1.65)x3.7 ) = 35.95xBD Serration, HC, S.Chamber, 4 elemental, 1 other random mods. 1.9x( (BDx1.65+BDx1.65)x4.6 ) = 28.84xBD

 

Where BD is basic damage.

 

Now for my opinion, people complaining, i dont get why, you dont like it, fine. But you cant say they are bad or useless, i agree that you need a lot of resources to upgrade, i agree that you need to switch your loadouts, but hey everything added in the game is like that, like the new drift mods, the ammount of stat increase is so minimal that you can wonder if you really need it, but some people use them and they need extra forma for it. Tho you can still be fine without them, is the same for these mods. These are definitily not for your begineer player with almost no resources to spare. Also i dont know what people is expecting, primed streamline?, primed intensify?, primed stretch?, primed pressure point?, I wont even start why these are really bad ideas.

 

TLDR, These are good for people with resources and my opinion about the rage is, people grown up LOL

Edited January 8, 2016 by Arrectius

[RayPerth]

I hope we can have more weapon mod configurations so we can have all build for all faction, 5 would be nice.

Edited January 8, 2016 by RayPerth

[LAGpWND]

What OP fails to grasp is that it's not about the numbers ,but about the impracticality of these mods. Most people ,me included, don't like to waste time by going to Arsenal and change their load out before every mission. Many tend to go for  an "overall good build" that is more or less effective against all factions. It is not about being "lazy". It's about not being annoyed. This is one of the flaws of damage 2.0.

 

It's the same situation that we have with Kubrows and Sentinels. Why do you think most players choose Sentinels over Kubrows, even though Kubrows in theory are a lot more powerful? It's because of all the hassle and "maintenance" annoyance/impracticality that comes with the Kubrows.

 

Is it really that hard to understand?

[kitsu]

A Primed Bane mod is actually better than a second 90% elemental.

Using a weapon with 100 base damage,

2 90%'s = 100+((100*90%)*2) = 280 damage. Simple enough.

1 90% + P Bane = (100+(100*90%))*155% = 294.5 damage. Not that much extra, but when you start piling on even more damage mods the difference becomes more and more obvious.

3 90%'s + P Bane = 100+((100*90%)*3)*155% = 518.5, 58.5 more damage than you would have with 4 90%'s.

For a community that is often considered to only care about damage numbers, the reaction to these mods has been rather funny.

The Corpus one is phenomenal, afaik most of us run toxin on our weapons to ignore the shields and therefore we can't have 2 different types of elemental damage. This is a fantastic addition.

Guess what I want to say is, don't fly off the handle without actually thinking about things, these mods are a nice addition.

You should also add in that those mods ALSO effect the IPS mods, and the base mods like serration and hornet strike.

 

Yeah, if you want to bother having to change your build before every mission.

 

And if it fits with your polarities in case you forma-ed a lot your equipment.

 

And if your are not playing in void (the only place where it might eventually, maybe, useful)

 

And if you have 400 ducats to waste on each of them.

 

 

Not mentioning they are a 25% increase over the regular mods ... yay enjoy having to up them to rank 10 ...

 

Thanks, but no thanks ...

I'd love to be able to do 55% more total damage using just one mod, that increases all damage.

 

But in your math you didn't take into account the elemental damage multiplier vs the faction. Like the bonus magnetic damage has VS corpus compared to the bonus let's say toxin plus a primed bane mod has.

Gotta remember it also works for the IPS mods and mods like serration and hornet strike.

 

 

DeMonkey, if you can edit you OP to state that these bane mods not only increase elemental mods, but IPS mods AND serration/hornet strike, I think people will begin to understand just how potent these mods are.

 

For example. Tonkor that does 10k damage total damage, slap a primed bane mod in and it is now pulling 15k damage.

 

Bane mods add extra damage to the BASE damage, then all the other mods are applied to the NEW base damage.

 

Or in short, Bane mods increase all total damage by 55%.

 

Math for simple understanding when using primed bane mods. (55% more damage against specified faction):

Elemental mods 90% : 90*1.55=   153.45% damage per elemental mod.

Dual elemental + status mods. 60% : 60*1.55=   93% damage per mod.

IPS 120% mods: 120*1.55=   186% damage per 120% IPS mod.

Serration and/or Heavy Caliber 165% mods:   165*1.55= 255.75% damage per mod.

 

This, this is just gonna get to OP levels if used correctly! I.e. against their specified factions.

Edited January 8, 2016 by kitsu

[Inarticulate]

What OP fails to grasp is that it's not about the numbers ,but about the impracticality of these mods. Most people ,me included, don't like to waste time by going to Arsenal and change their load out before every mission. Many tend to go for  an "overall good build" that is more or less effective against all factions. It is not about being "lazy". It's about not being annoyed. This is one of the flaws of damage 2.0.

 

It's the same situation that we have with Kubrows and Sentinels. Why do you think most players choose Sentinels over Kubrows, even though Kubrows in theory are a lot more powerful? It's because of all the hassle and "maintenance" annoyance/impracticality that comes with the Kubrows.

 

Is it really that hard to understand?

 

I already set up three mod configurations on all of my weapons, one for each faction, and switch between each mission if I'm changing factions. I've done this for as long as I've had the mods to do so (a week after I started the game). It's really not that hard. You're just being lazy.

 

Kubrows are legitimately too much work for too little gain, unlike mod configurations. Also, Kubrows cannot use Codex Scanners and have significantly worse pathing issues than Sentinels.

[DamienTokala]

yeah, the math SAYS it works this way, but put it to practice, and it only affect CRITICAL damage. 

 

unless of course this is another one of DEs bugs

[(PSN)RocketPunch1221]

I will say just let people be continue to be ignorant about faction mods. While those of us who know better will play in comfort knowing this OP mod will never get netf'd.

[TwevOWNED]

If you're ok with having to swap builds for every faction

Players in end game where these mods make a significant impact already do this, unless you are trying to say you can fight level 200 infested with the same mods as you can level 200 corpus.

 

 

If you're ok with spending 500+ gold cores and far too many credits

Implying cores and credits are hard to get.

 

 

If you're ok with 400 ducats+140k credits each per purchase or 1kk credits from trading + platinum

Implying ducats and credits are hard to get.

 

For the rest of us, I'd rather pick up a Vauban and a Tonkor for infested and for Corpus... come on.

 

Then your Tonkor build is subpar because it is a weapon that benefits from Primed Bane of Corpus to an obscene degree. Serration, Split Chamber, Heavy Cal, Point Strike, Critical Delay, Vital Sense, Infected Clip, and Primed Bane of Corpus cannot be beat.

 

These mods are useful for the multi-hour fusion core farms on Triton or Hieracon, and if Primed Bane of Grineer existed it would be on most void builds.

[MaverickZero]

These Primed Bane mods are great...if they weren't Primed mods.

 

Just swap these stats with the standard ones (plus make them 10 ranks) and remove the Primed Banes.

[Kontrollo]

Some of the math here has already shown that they're a damage upgrade in certain circumstances. Not in all, but they're faction specific mods after all.

​

​Just to add another angle to this: On some builds you don't want to put another 90% elemental mod on your weapon, because that has two other effects: You get an additional or a different elemental effect which has an impact on the elemental multipliers or status effects.

​

​For example:

• Usually you want to go for Magnetic + Toxin against Corpus, but with certain weapons (crit.), you don't have the slots for that. Now you have a viable option to go purely for Toxin.
• Against Infested, Corrosive + Fire is pretty great because of the multipliers they have (Corrosive vs. Ancients). Except that on a gun with good status chance, Corrosive procs are pretty useless. Now there's an option to go for Blast instead. Its multiplier vs. Ancients isn't as high as Corrosive, but its status effect is really good against Infested.
• You're using an elemental weapon and you simply don't want to "dilute" your proc chances with another element. Here you have another completely neutral source of a damage multiplier. Pity it's not Grineer (yet?), if it were we could mod some weapons for pure Corrosive procs.

 

​

​And for those who're saying "too expensive", "not worth it" and what not: Prime mods are considered endgame anyway, that's not really an argument. You don't have to max them right away, either. Rank 8 is a good middle ground for 1/4th the core cost.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Kontrollo

[-KoreanPotato-]

Except for the 10x more fusion cores needed to max them?

[Inarticulate]

Except for the 10x more fusion cores needed to max them?

 

64x to be precise.

[Bloop]

I think there's a certain weapon which would become a monster thanks to these two mods, despite being already a monster.

That weapon is the Simulor.

[(PSN)Cwellann]

I think there's a certain weapon which would become a monster thanks to these two mods, despite being already a monster.

That weapon is the Simulor.

Ehn, no room for it right now.

 

BUT *tinfoil hat time*

Ammo mutations, bane mods, discussion of "mandatory mod" rework during past dev streams.  Think these might be getting slapped in where we all have Serration right now.

 

Also, everyone saying they don't want to deal with the hassle... do you all honestly use the same build on the same weapon for everything?  How do you deal with the boredom?  Grabbing a different weapon for almost everything is easily the most engaging thing about this game to me.

[Oranji]

Yeah, if you want to bother having to change your build before every mission.

 

And if it fits with your polarities in case you forma-ed a lot your equipment.

 

And if your are not playing in void (the only place where it might eventually, maybe, useful)

 

And if you have 400 ducats to waste on each of them.

 

 

Not mentioning they are a 25% increase over the regular mods ... yay enjoy having to up them to rank 10 ...

 

Thanks, but no thanks ...

Exactly what you can expect from a casual.

[Zerdfer]

lol, no

 

I could if I wanted to (950ducats (not counting what i didnt sell), 1200 r5 cores and 34m cred), but why would I ever want to do that ?

 

When I do long runs it's in void so those mods are of absolutely no use to me. Any mission in the star chart is a piece of cake, so are the sorties and the raids.

 

Maybe you like to waste your ressources on what's new and shiny, but I don't. As a 100% f2p player I remember what I had to do to get what I have now. Unlike some wallet warriors calling people casual :)

Edited January 8, 2016 by Zerdfer

[Vesiga]

IMO the only primed bane mod that would be worth it is Grineer.
Corpus and Infested are the easiest ones out there.. 

[undernown]

I was anitialy appaled by these mods aswell, but then the math surprised me:

You have to keep IPS and Elemental(ELE) seperate, cause elemental(ELE) has better damage bonuses vs specific factions.

 

for simplicity's sake i'll take a base weapon damage of 100 IPS.

 

Example 1 mod slot:

100 IPS + (1x90% ELE) = 100 IPs + 90 ELE , total damage: 190

100 IPS x 1,55 = 155 IPS

 

Example 2 mod slots:

100 IPS + (2x90% ELE) = 100 IPS + 180 ELE , total damage: 280

( 100 IPS + (1x90% ELE) ) x 1,55 = 155 IPS + 149,5 ELE , total damage: 304,5.

 

Example 3 mod slots:

100 IPS + (3x90% ELE) = 100 IPS + 270 ELE , total damage: 370

( 100 IPS + (2x90% ELE) ) x 1,55 = 155 IPS + 279 ELE , total damage: 434.

 

Example 4 mod slots: 

100 IPS + (4x90% ELE) = 100 IPS + 360 ELE , total damage: 460 (only optimal for Corpus Elementals)

( 100 IPS + (3x90% ELE) ) x 1,55 = 155 IPS + 418,5 ELE , total damage: 568,5.

 

 

As seen by the examples above, the more mod slots you have, the bigger the advantage of a maxed bane mod becomes.

The turning point is thus how much mod space you have available on your weapons.

If you have 3 or more mod slots to spare, Primed bane mods will out do a third or fourth elemental 90% mod. The only drawback would be slight increase in proc chance of IPS procs because of the increase in IPS.

 

So its rather useless for most crit weapons for now, but most others would benefit from these mods against the factions.

But we're talking late game damage here, it's pretty pointless on the star chart.

I'd only recommend the Corpus one for sorties, and its hard to justify the cost of maxing it in that case.

Infested one can be used in Sorties, Orokin Derelict, or the Jordas Trial if your so inclined. Still a bit iffy for maxing it, but more useful then the corpus one.

If we get a Grineer one though, that would be interesting. Especially if it works on corrupted versions as well, because the tankiest mobs are all Grineer, even in the void. (Bombard and Heavy Gunner, though you should not forget the lancers at high lvls)

 

So even though it's a definite upgrade for some weapons, i'd only recommend the Grineer one if it comes.

Or if your one to speculate that "damage 3.0/multi shot change" will come soon and believe it will free up 1 or 2 mod slots.

[Bloop]

Ehn, no room for it right now.

 

BUT *tinfoil hat time*

Ammo mutations, bane mods, discussion of "mandatory mod" rework during past dev streams.  Think these might be getting slapped in where we all have Serration right now.

 

Also, everyone saying they don't want to deal with the hassle... do you all honestly use the same build on the same weapon for everything?  How do you deal with the boredom?  Grabbing a different weapon for almost everything is easily the most engaging thing about this game to me.

Actually, there is. What mod could prevent from it? I mean, swap a 60% elemental for one of the Banes, there you go.

I'll anyhow try this myself once I forma my Simulor several times.

[MagPrime]

I'm convinced.

 

brb buying the Bane mods. 

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

Thank you for this. I was taking a look at their stats on the wiki and immediately started thinking of how I can work them in to my builds.