Feedback On Vulpine Mask Grind And Rapier [Megathread]

[Cloymax]

I don't give much of a damn about the animations, but I do have to agree about stance acquisition.

 

I find it ridiculous that the only reason for using melee weapons (lets face it: melee weapons are hardly viable, and no fun without a stance) would be locked behind such ridiculous grindwall. I get that you gotta get that monetization model in there, but those enemies already drop rare stances. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

[Noctly]

Reposting from the reddit thread:

 

I feel I should point out that you can in fact buy a Destranza bundle on the market that includes the stance. That said, I agree that something needs to change about new stances and their drop rates. The low percentages are ridiculous and lead to absurd trading prices (ex. I was seeing 400p~ for Vulpine Mask before people realized you could just buy it off the market for less.)

They shouldn't necessarily be common, but they shouldn't be this stupid rare either. Especially if they're going to pull what they did with Vermillion Storm and have Baro basically give it away to everyone (just days after I dropped 300+ plat for one, thanks DE).

My suggestion, no stance should ever be below a certain droprate percent. 3-5% maybe, it's hard to judge that between casual players and the Draco grinders. Along with that, any new stance should be available in the market in some way, especially ones released alongside a weapon as a brand new weapon type (Rapier, Sword and Dagger, etc.) like how Destranza has a bundle. Patient people could reasonably farm, people with plat to spare can just buy and enjoy it. People are happy, everyone wins.

[JaviiMii]

So I spent a while farming the stance now - using the Tyl node. A run takes about 7 minutes, most of that time is spent running and waiting for Tyls animations to be over. Per run we got 1-2 of the manics. Needless to say none dropped it. And you know what, I now shake my head, will craft that stupid rapier, level it and throw it away. And won't have the slightest hint of a bad conscience for not having tried out the weapon whatsoever.

 

You see, those manics don't appear in "regular game". You have to run specific nodes that don't benefit you in any other way. - That's the big difference between farming prime parts or other mods which drop from enemies appearing in missions you run for resources and stuff anyway. I don't mind waiting for something to drop. (Though, the Ash BP which still didn't drop after 100+ rotC seriously starts to piss me off too...) - But with this DE reached a new point of... I don't even know what the point of it is.

Well. Whatever. As I said; I gonna built, level and trash that Rapier, forget about the mod and keep enjoying the game. I will, however, no longer spend any plat outside the market player-trade and cosmetics. That's what I take away from all this rather pointless grind.

Edited January 14, 2016 by JaviiMii

[DeMonkey]

Legitimate problem exists only in your heads gentlemen. Every problem that will go away by itself in a week or two time is no problem at all. I have all good stances in game and I'm not even trying that hard. I don't even using melee. I am bit annoyed because this is not the first time I've seen this type of rant on forums, and it won't certainly be the last. You all know what free to play means, either you have patience or you have platinum. 

 

To make whole thing even more ridiculous - new stance by what I've have seen is not even that good in a first place .

 

Math based solely on the Manic Drekar Bombards peeps drop rate since nothing on the wiki as yet indicates that it drops from Drekar Manics.

 

Lets say that it takes 5 minutes for a Tyl Regor run (we both know it's longer than that but whatevs), on average therefore you're fighting a Drekar Manic Bombard every 2.5 minutes. You have to kill on average 8000 of them to get the mod, 8000*2.5 = 20000 minutes of farming one node.

 

20000/60 = 333.3 reoccuring hours.

 

333.3/24 = 14 days. You were right, it will literally take two weeks on non-stop farming of the same node over and over again.

 

I can't believe you're defending this.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Math based solely on the Manic Drekar Bombards peeps drop rate since nothing on the wiki as yet indicates that it drops from Drekar Manics.

 

Lets say that it takes 5 minutes for a Tyl Regor run (we both know it's longer than that but whatevs), on average therefore you're fighting a Drekar Manic Bombard every 2.5 minutes. You have to kill on average 8000 of them to get the mod, 8000*2.5 = 20000 minutes of farming one node.

 

20000/60 = 333.3 reoccuring hours.

 

333.3/24 = 14 days. You were right, it will literally take two weeks on non-stop farming of the same node over and over again.

 

I can't believe you're defending this.

Thank you for providing further proof for us non-math folks. May Space Mom and RNGsus bless you.

[DeMonkey]

Just going to quote myself from another thread.

 

This is a reply to all of you people defending this.

 

Math based solely on the Manic Drekar Bombards peeps drop rate since nothing on the wiki as yet indicates that it drops from Drekar Manics.

 

Lets say that it takes 5 minutes for a Tyl Regor run (we both know it's longer than that but whatevs), on average therefore you're fighting a Drekar Manic Bombard every 2.5 minutes. You have to kill on average 8000 of them to get the mod, 8000*2.5 = 20000 minutes of farming one node.

 

20000/60 = 333.3 reoccuring hours.

 

333.3/24 = 14 days. You were right, it will literally take two weeks on non-stop farming of the same node over and over again.

 

I can't believe you're defending this.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DeMonkey

[Kontrollo]

Ouch, didn't even check where it drops. Hope they do something about that. :/

 

Anyway, bought the pack right away because the devstream demonstrations looked so nice. Only tested it out in the Simulacrum so far, and I'd say the stance is great. Nice combos, and It opens up for a finisher at the end of the hold-combo. It's probably worth getting.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Kontrollo

[DrBorris]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

 

 

I will normally defend some of DE's decisions (the forums often blow things way out of proportion), but this... this is bad. Not sure what would have been worse, this or adding them to Sentient drops. At least the other stupidly rare stances at least have a more common version.

 

 

And to those "Boo hoo, you can't get this instantly" people... really? Most players will NEVER get this mod. There is a line somewhere, and this is past it... then put in a catapult and shot off the side of a cliff that leads into a wormhole on the other side of the galaxy. In a perfect Warframe you would not grind FOR things you would gain most if not all items by just playing the game (for an extended period of time).

Edited January 14, 2016 by DrBorris

[Neveryn]

So, I bought the Destreza before I even saw the bundle existed. I was too excited from redtext and went straight to the melee weapon section before the bundle popped up as the banner. What's the problem? You can't even attempt to buy the bundle, or the stance, because it says you've already boughtt the bundle as well.

 

What's the bigger issue?

 

I'd much rather just spend the extra 45p on the stance from the market, than post another WTB in trade chat. The lowest offer I've even received so far is 200p. You know, just 20p shy of the entire bundle's price.

 

DE, can you at least make the stance purchasable itself, or in addition to the weapon? I guess rushing because I was excited for it was a terrible thing to do.

 

inb4 should've waited?

 

Edited January 14, 2016 by ThePansAnOldMan

[kubbi]

I have no issues with the combined bundle. Its a good deal and people have been asking for those kind of bundles anyway.

 

What I don't like is thats its another insanely rare stance mod from an insane enemy. And that the rapier needs nitain to be crafted aka the newest annoying to obtain resource. Why on earth does it even need nitain?? Argon I can somewhat understand.

[Kontrollo]

So, I bought the Destreza before I even saw the bundle existed. I was too excited from redtext and went straight to the melee weapon section before the bundle popped up as the banner. What's the problem? You can't even attempt to buy the bundle, or the stance, because it says you've already boughtt the bundle as well.

 

What's the bigger issue?

 

I'd much rather just spend the extra 45p on the stance from the market, than post another WTB in trade chat. The lowest offer I've even received so far is 200p. You know, just 20p shy of the entire bundle's price.

 

DE, can you at least make the stance purchasable itself, or in addition to the weapon? I guess rushing because I was excited for it was a terrible thing to do.

 

inb4 should've waited?

 

​Maybe check with support if they can do something about that? Not sure how problems like that are handled.

[Buzkyl]

Sometimes you can defend DE using the fact that despite being nice they're still a business

 

 

This one, you can't.

 

 

 

There no reason for 1 enemy with irregular spawns to be dropping 2 highly valuable stances.

 

Why not bosses?

Why not a sortie reward?

Why not raids?

 

 

There is no legitimate reason for DE to be stuffing the droptables like this other than to borderline force people to buy the packet.

[Bobtm]

The stance being available with the weapon in the market is a good thing.  In fact this is something many players specifically asked for.

 

Citation of this fact; https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/560111-please-de-i-implore-you/

 

So the stance being paired with the weapon is in no way some low thing, in fact it's awesome.  However there is the other side of this coin. . .  its actual drop rate and source.  This isn't some new thing, but across the board many stances have almost always been from uncommon or worse foes with the mod itself having an atrocious drop rate.  This is the part that should have changed long, long ago and its part of what holds back melee combat so heavily.

 

With gunplay you get 1 mod and its good to go for every single gun of that broad gun type.  It's a "one size fits all" type situation.  Melee is already hit in terms of effectiveness versus guns do to the disparity on both damage and the delivery method of it.  So having the core aspect of melee 2.0, stances, be so arbitrarily obscure to obtain makes no sense at all.  The rarity of stances is an unnecessary limiter on melee combat.  That said I can understand the point to a degree of not wanting content to be so swiftly attained, so why not a different route?

 

Have stances be delivered to a player's inbox after they've acquired X number of kills with a weapon of said type.  These stances can then also be left in the drop tables for folks who want a shot at getting them faster, and also left in the market package for the simple point that it's something many players want to see.

[AM-Bunny]

You know, I think I figured out what bothers me so much about this one. I think that this is actually worst than some of the other hard to get Stances, for one simple reason.

 

It's the only Stance available for Rapiers.

 

Gaia's Tragedy, Vermillion Storm, Vengeful Revenant - sure, they're tough to get, but at least you have alternatives. I'm perfectly content using Crimson Dervish and never thinking about VR. However, in this case, you have to limp around with - essentially - half a weapon unless you tackle this absurd acquisition (or pay 220 plat, around 15 USD).

 

I'm okay with some Stances being rare and hard to farm for, but not when it's our only choice.

[(XBOX)LoneRyder3926]

I'm glad I never want anything til I get it, makes my playing experience alot better.

[Ampoth]

Just DE reducing the grind the only way they know how, by making us buy it for plat. Things sure have been getting less grindy since DE got acquired haven't they.

[ThorienKELL]

333.3/24 = 14 days. You were right, it will literally take two weeks on non-stop farming of the same node over and over again.

 

I can't believe you're defending this.

I'm defending this because WF is one of most drop friendly grind games in existence. Everything in this game is so easily obtainable that only true challenge is content quantity. 

 

How many stances we have in game? A lot. How many of them are truly rare drops? A handful, maybe less then 5. How many of those are really necessary, significantly better, must have, special or won't become common in some time? 1? 2?

[(PSN)Romulus93]

Starting to agree.

 

There's always the argument of ''they need to get paid to'' but come on, 2 almost impossible to get stances that drop from enemies found in one node? That's verging on ridiculous.

For the sake of balancing the interests of the two parties, players shouldn't even consider how DE is going to make money. We should just voice our concerns as players and not try to be DE's treasurers and DE should worry about their business and their game. When the player base starts thinking on the side of DE then we slowly tip the scales towards their interests over ours and bad design decisions that should be challenged and critiqued get a pass. And a game with no critique isn't going to improve.

Edited January 14, 2016 by (PS4)Romulus93

[DeMonkey]

I'm defending this because WF is one of most drop friendly grind games in existence.

 

Then you should really be opposed to unfriendly grind. And by unfriendly I mean the type of grind that gives you a wedgie whilst holding your head in the toilet and flushing.

 

WF will not be one of the most drop friendly grind games if these sorts of drop rates go unprotested.

[(PSN)federally]

One benefit of the purchasable bundle that you guys are overlooking. It creates a price ceiling for the stance mod.

No matter how rare the stance is it will never be worth more then the bundle.

As I see it the situation is a win/win. DE grants themselves opportunity to make some money, offers a convenient solution for those of us who just want the damn weapon and the stance and by doing so protects the free players from crazy price gouging.

[IceColdHawk]

I'm defending this because WF is one of most drop friendly grind games in existence. Everything in this game is so easily obtainable that only true challenge is content quantity. 

 

How many stances we have in game? A lot. How many of them are truly rare drops? A handful, maybe less then 5. How many of those are really necessary, significantly better, must have, special or won't become common in some time? 1? 2?

If you haven't noticed by now, warframe is increasing the grind to ridiculous levels right now. I wouldn't be surprised that this game lost a majority of his playerbase by end of this year if they keep doing that. Look at sortie droptable, look at nitain. So much wow. I remember back in 2013 and 2014, where the grind was tolerable.

[Neveryn]

One benefit of the purchasable bundle that you guys are overlooking. It creates a price ceiling for the stance mod.

No matter how rare the stance is it will never be worth more then the bundle.

As I see it the situation is a win/win. DE grants themselves opportunity to make some money, offers a convenient solution for those of us who just want the damn weapon and the stance and by doing so protects the free players from crazy price gouging.

 

I'd like you to refer to my above post.

Edited January 14, 2016 by ThePansAnOldMan

[Davoodoo]

Eh, everytime i warn ppl about increasing grind and how they should not be ok when this happens.

Everyone will pop eventually.

 

Everyone saying "its ok", well see each other later. It will happen no worries.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Davoodoo

[kaliazane]

Holy...just buy it with plat. It's decent value with 7 day affinity booster and catalyst on rapier.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

I'm defending this because WF is one of most drop friendly grind games in existence. Everything in this game is so easily obtainable that only true challenge is content quantity. 

 

How many stances we have in game? A lot. How many of them are truly rare drops? A handful, maybe less then 5. How many of those are really necessary, significantly better, must have, special or won't become common in some time? 1? 2?

You keep disregarding the principle of the matter and using your own experiences rather than challenging the evidence presented before you. Give us an argument to support this without resorting to personal experience (which doesnt matter when a strict drop chance is in order) and " Warframe is F2P so get over it" type of arguments if you really feel like this deserves to be defended.