New Melee Concept, The Viserai

[ObviousLee]

Okey Dokey folks, Lee here with another concept to toss your guys way. Hoping to get some good feedback on this lovely little concept that hit me like a lightning bolt.

 

So, imagine a melee weapon that's a hilt. This hilt, connects directly to your warframe, and "supplies" the power to "fuel" it, thus the name Viserai, Vis being a latin word for force, or power.

 

How this works - first off, no, it won't drain your power to use it. The idea here, is that your warframes elemental power, (ice with frost, fire with ember, etc.) would be the inherent elemental base damage type. In this respect, equipping this theoretical weapon on various warframes will allow for very interesting modding capabilities.

 

So, what we're looking at here, is an energy weapon fueled by your warframes power, but what shape will it be? a longsword? a stave?.a scythe? why not say, all of the above?

 

this is the interesting part (i feel anyway) is that since it would be a weapon made out of energy, molded to the will of the operator, which have very fluid minds, should not the weapon adapt as well?

 

so here's what i'm thinking: several stances with their respective combos' will (during the performance of the combo) can shift into various already rendered base weapon models, giving a truly diverse melee weapon to use.

 

SO, thoughts? theories? contributions? help me help you folks, help me help you.

 

 

 

to the mods, feel free to move this to the appropriate section if this isn't it.

 

 

Edit for clarification: The Viserai would not be all melee combined into one, as that would devalue any and all melee weapons, nor would the weapon maintain a specific weapon model permanently. Weapon shifts would only occur during the combo, in relation TO the combo. So, were you to pound out a five hit combo, it would, at max, be 2-3 weapon shifts in the entirety of the combo.

 

Example: first hit - stave second hit stave third hit scythe fourth hit hammer(to send flying) fifth hit grappling hook (to bring them back).

 

 

Edit #2. After some discussion with a fellow brain, the notion of the Vis being a weapon that replaces the weapons it's emulating does pose a problem.

 

My suggestion to avoid this, is the following. During the combo, when the weapon shifts, it will adopt the base attack speed, and at max 80% of the damage the weapon it's emulating can dish out. this would in effect allow for use of the Vis, without it being a powercreep'd replacement for a series of weapons.

Edited January 14, 2016 by ObviousLee

[-Kryptyk-]

[Cyborg-Rox]

DE are trying to discourage needing specific frames to make weapons more useful. I'll admit, base damage isn't that big of a deal, but I can imagine a lot of Saryn and Volt metafesting with this.

[ObviousLee]

and Volt metafesting with this.

english. you read english.

 

 

 

DE are trying to discourage needing specific frames to make weapons more useful. I'll admit, base damage isn't that big of a deal, but I can imagine a lot of Saryn and Volt metafesting with this.

it's not about a specific frame making a weapon useful, it's about adding direct variety with synergy TO a weapon AND the warframe using it.

[-Kryptyk-]

english. you read english.

not sure.... all I read was "THROW ALL THE MELEE WEAPONS INTO ONE AND MAKE IT ELEMENTAL" but I feel like that may be way off........ can't.... compute.... OP.... because.... not making sense.

[ObviousLee]

not sure.... all I read was "THROW ALL THE MELEE WEAPONS INTO ONE AND MAKE IT ELEMENTAL" but I feel like that may be way off........ can't.... compute.... OP.... because.... not making sense.

then maybe improve your reading comprehension. various, does not mean "all". if you're not going to provide actual feedback to a concept, please stop posting.

[Charus]

Biggest issue I see here is... Obviously, this would be a new class of melee weapon, so how would weapons of this class be different from other classes? From each other? This can't be a one-off melee weapon belonging to a category all its own forever and ever.

 

My suggestion for making weapons in this class different from each other: each weapon gets specific "forms" for each attack in a stance, and the combination of forms for a weapon is unique. If a weapon is "dagger + shield + scythe + axe", then that combination should be unique to that weapon. It would mean that DE would need to design a stance around moves that are somewhat vague (like a punching motion could be matched to a punch with a fist weapon or a bash with a shield) and then design a weapon that has enough forms to fit those moves.

 

I'm a little wary of tying the weapon's element to the frame, since some frames have vague or nonexistent elemental affinities. (Ivara = ...? Chroma = whatever his element happens to be at the moment?) I realize this is an effort at creating synergy between the frame and the weapon, but there is the issue of some frames getting the shaft when it comes to elements. (I, for one, probably wouldn't use this weapon with a frame whose element is Gas.)

 

I'd be open to reusing Chroma's "energy color = element" mechanic, though, and I do think this could be a way to differentiate the weapons further, perhaps by making a weapon whose elements are chosen from the combined elements (rather than just the basic elements like Chroma), or a weapon whose damage is physical, but the balance of impact vs puncture vs slash can shift based on energy color. (Or perhaps, just a weapon that is Slash-focused and only includes slash-oriented forms, etc.)

 

Shower thought: If weapons of this class are elemental-only, should the stance include forced procs, IPS or otherwise?

 

----EDIT----

 

After talking with ObviousLee, there are some questions I feel i should post here, since some discussion about them would definitely help flesh out the idea.

 

"How would I make two weapons of this class look and feel different in use, even though they're using the same stance and movements?"

 

"How would I make sure a weapon of this class won't break as soon as I introduce a new stance with new movements?"

Edited January 14, 2016 by Charus

[-Kryptyk-]

then maybe improve your reading comprehension. various, does not mean "all". if you're not going to provide actual feedback to a concept, please stop posting.

it's kind of hard to provide constructive feedback on a "concept" that's incredibly vague and trying to do too much at the same time with no real purpose for any particular role or use.  It's not that my reading comprehension needs work (if you really want a list of my library, that's fine... it might take a while to type up), it's that the OP lacks so much cohesion within itself on multiple levels that it's quite difficult to grasp what you're going for.  A+ for wanting synergy; but for implementation, it's too overboard and also leaves a lot to be desired.  And that is even reflected in the other peoples' comments trying to grasp the idea.

 

Excuse me for liking my own sense of humor and trying to get the point across that way, and I apologize for you not being able to pick up on that.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Firefly0037

[ObviousLee]

it's kind of hard to provide constructive feedback on a "concept" that's incredibly vague and trying to do too much at the same time with no real purpose for any particular role or use.  It's not that my reading comprehension needs work (if you really want a list of my library, that's fine... it might take a while to type up), it's that the OP lacks so much cohesion within itself on multiple levels that it's quite difficult to grasp what you're going for.  A+ for wanting synergy; but for implementation, it's too overboard and also leaves a lot to be desired.  And that is even reflected in the other peoples' comments trying to grasp the idea.

 

Excuse me for liking my own sense of humor and trying to get the point across that way, and I apologize for you not being able to pick up on that.

i will admit it is a tad vague and not entirely fleshed out in presentation, namely because i'm sleep deprived and high as balls. i'll make some edit's when i've gotten some sleep and i'm sober, and hopefully be able to better convey what it is i'm trying to present to the community. That sound fair to you?

[Malakam]

I have an idea but I also need input on how we'd do this too. I love this concept of a viserai weapon, but i feel like the idea needs some focus added to it. Which got me thinking, why not tie it into the focus system! Instead of having it focus on aspects of solely your warframe, your viserai could describe the nature of the transference between operator, and warframe. Basically... Each focus tree has a weapon pool it can draw from, based on which skills you took from which focus tree.

 

Say, you choose the madurai tree, and for concepts sake, you start with a greatsword shape, like gallatine or gram, and the level you have the base skill at, could dictate the strength of this viserai's current form, and add a tiny multiplier to focus gained while having this weapon drawn. But as you expand outward from the tree, the weapon gains stat bonuses, or new forms like a greataxe, or even a scythe. the further you expand in the tree, the greater control your operator has over the warframes viserai, allowing for variation in combos, and damage type. So just mashing E would result in many greatsword swings, but deciding to use a combo, should you have it unlocked, will allow your viserai to flow between shapes and stances, demonstrating your level of mastery over your warframes energy. 

 

But say you decide to switch to the Unairu tree, there would be an entirely diferent set of weapons the viserai would be capable of flowing between, because of the style of gameplay it would be focused toward. Since it's focused mostly on defense and outlasting your enemy, you could start with a sword and shield type, like a knight. when you draw it you become a symbol of protection for the squad, and switch between mace type weapons like magistar and jat kittag when you expand your tree, so that you can exploit the weakened armor of your enemies that your focus tree grants. But still acting as a knight/tank/Defense for the group. Using the same concepts i stated above, the first skill learned dictates how effective your viserai's first form is, or if it impoves your focus tree abilities at all.

 

But before even discussing any of the effects of such a godly weapon, how would it be balance, or even acquired?

 

Well I have a loose idea for this too, the answer should be it is crafted using greater focus lenses. if you want to have such a powerful vaserai you would need to tune it using only a greater focus lense, as well as crafting it with one of each normal lense as well. it should not be easy to get. You must be capable of completing sorties many many times, and tuning the vaserai must be no light task. if you wanted to switch this almighty weapons alignment, it wouldnt be as easy as swapping your primary focus, no you must destroy your greater lense and replace it with a new one, or dedicate yourself to mastering your art.

 

The only way around this would be to craft multiple vaserai catalysts, but that wouldnt really be wise as its strength comes from putting all of your effort into honing individual skills. spreading points across your tree would result in a very weakly shifting weapon that's not good at anything in particular, however maxing out  each ability one at a time, would result in the weapons forms being much stronger than somebody looking to just dabble in focus.

 

So what do you all think so far? I think if we handled this correctly this might actually make focus alot more interesting than it already is. And alot more rewarding at the same time, while also providing a challenging goal to work for. This still needs ALOT of flushing out to be even remotely taken seriously but i think ObiousLee has hit a goldmine here.

 

KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE, I want to see this go somewhere. Give your opinions, what weapons do you think fit each focus types style? Should we have a system like energy colors adding slight elemental effects? How do we balance vaserais forms (I say take the average of all weapons of the type in the focus pool, average their stats, then dumb it down to a very default form, and have it grow into its averagey power) And most importantly, Am I crazy for absolutely loving this concept? Thoughts, Questions, Complaints, Suggestions I want it all people!! 

[Davoodoo]

Good moment op, we just got rapier with ridiculously rare stance, but hey we can always put stance for this one on stalker.

 

Ye its offtopic pretty much, but i couldnt help myself, sorry.

[-Kryptyk-]

i will admit it is a tad vague and not entirely fleshed out in presentation, namely because i'm sleep deprived and high as balls. i'll make some edit's when i've gotten some sleep and i'm sober, and hopefully be able to better convey what it is i'm trying to present to the community. That sound fair to you?

Being sleep deprived and "high as balls" may or may not have contributed to the OP being vague lol