Question: Anyone Interested In Seeing Genderswap Skins?

[MagPrime]

I was saying if they started doing that. Besides, I can see what Arch was saying, but even those frames have the body build that still leans a certain direction. Only Chroma really seems like it could be ambiguous due to the shape of the armor, but even then, the bulk could have him be considered male if we didn't already know. Even Zephyr still has evident female curves in he body shape.

A neutral skin wouldn't be changing the current curves or bulges on the default skin, it'd be making entirely new ones. So, you're point is moot because said curves would no longer exist in the new skin.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

Eh. I don't really care either way. As far as we know the Warframes don't have genders.

 

The suits we use in battle with our male or female Tenno behind the wheel are based off the original designs for the frame. The Primes. Each kind happened to have itself built around a male or female form from the beginning.

 

So it doesn't really matter to me, if people want this. I just don't think DE will bother with making them canon (even if there are some neat concepts with meshes and the like). I like my frames as they are.

Edited January 19, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Flibbertigibbety]

I like the idea for sure... but I don't really see how SKINS will change gender. You'd need a totally different model to make it look right. From my understanding, we are not able to do custom warframe models. Only heads, weapons, and attachments.

[MagPrime]

I like the idea for sure... but I don't really see how SKINS will change gender. You'd need a totally different model to make it look right. From my understanding, we are not able to do custom warframe models. Only heads, weapons, and attachments.

Right now, you are correct. What Arch is talking about though, is making the skins and having them ready for when or if DE decides to allow model changing.

[arch111]

Right now, you are correct. What Arch is talking about though, is making the skins and having them ready for when or if DE decides to allow model changing.

Yes, a tennogen gender-skin conceptual experiment.

[nonNPC]

I don't know why some of the post take this "gender" thing seriously.. I mean, it's just a skin and doesn't mean anything more than cosmetics and preference ..

 

I don't think the current lore is going to be affected by this gender-swap skin thing, because they're gender-less.

 

so why the hell not? let OP be creative

[Rain3ternal]

That's just it, it does change the lore. The frames were built around people. Female frames weren't built around male users and vice versa. They'd have to implement some way to explain why suddenly each frame that was specifically made and based off of an individual suddenly has two genders. I'm not trying to wave a flaming flag that says no to this, but it doesn't make much sense to me honestly. 

[Doom_Bunny]

Can we try for neutral alt skins?

I mean, they're meat puppets, why do they need dangly/jiggly bits?

The dangly bits help with the aerodynamics of the frame, and lower the frame's overall acoustics.

 

If/when that day comes when DE let us do them, the ball is allready rolling.

No, the ball is kind of at a stand still. DE was pretty adamant that they weren't going to have two genders for one frame. Since it's a model change we would have people asking to get them onto consoles (which is a challenge in it's self) as it's not just a skin change, and people wanting to change the models even more. To put it simply, since we would be able to change both model (even slightly) and skin we could practically make our own frame, except with all the in-game stuff of the chosen character. This would result in confusion when trying to recognize a frame, and it's practically insulting the artist that made the original frame.

 

Although DE does pick out the ones to sell, the confusion from the players and what the art team might say, it may be best not to risk it. 

[arch111]

@postalpat.

The Loki and Rhino skins were made by an artist outside of DE. Sure the actual work was done inhouse, but the concept was not theirs.

We are talking about a skin for a warframe. Like the tennogen Mag helmets. Except this is a gender-skin/neutral skin for a warframe.

There is no insult to DE any where.

And consoles will get everything once they find a good way to do that.

[Zahnny]

That's just it, it does change the lore. The frames were built around people. Female frames weren't built around male users and vice versa. They'd have to implement some way to explain why suddenly each frame that was specifically made and based off of an individual suddenly has two genders. I'm not trying to wave a flaming flag that says no to this, but it doesn't make much sense to me honestly. 

 

Second Dream. Plus you have a problem changing skins but not a problem changing between female and male frames. The easiest answer is simply that a male and female had the same tenno powers at some point or another. DE even wanted the same idea but scrapped it. To me a Tennogen skin or item isn't canon. It's an optional thing to have but it doesn't impact the lore to the game. Otherwise many submissions would probabily be shot down for being non-canon or unlore friendly.

[Doom_Bunny]

@postalpat.

The Loki and Rhino skins were made by an artist outside of DE. Sure the actual work was done inhouse, but the concept was not theirs.

We are talking about a skin for a warframe. Like the tennogen Mag helmets. Except this is a gender-skin/neutral skin for a warframe.

There is no insult to DE any where.

And consoles will get everything once they find a good way to do that.

The concepts don't belong to the artist. DE contracted the artist to create those concepts for them. It all belongs to DE, the artist was paid to create the  concepts/designs therefore they belong to DE.

 

Except it can't just be a skin, for the gender to change the model has to change. They only reason we get to change the helmet is because it has always been interchangeable.

 

It's not insult to DE but possible insult to the artists because you are changing what they have worked so hard on. Sure if you built a model from scratch there would be no worries but that just adds more work before getting it in-game.

 

At the moment there is no good way getting community content onto counsels because Sony and Microsoft don't support it. There were rumors (some time ago) of Microsoft starting community based content but nothing has come of that. If they were to go on consoles the creators probably wouldn't get paid.

[arch111]

Pat, in all honesty you seem confused. I am talking about a warframe remodel skin.

A Premium, Proto or Prime is a remodel skin.

A skin is just a texture and normalmap. That can not alter the model by itself, this goes without saying.

The minute we are allowed, in tennogen, to create bodyswaps, your argument about credit to DE and money goes out the window.

A GENDER bodyswap would be no different from a normal one, but the rig and bodytype it would be based_on would change.

Example.

Loki gender swap.

Mirage is used as a base, the skeleton would be the restriction we have to work around. The model can be new, but would need to stay within the boundaries of the rig.

[MagPrime]

That's just it, it does change the lore. The frames were built around people. Female frames weren't built around male users and vice versa. They'd have to implement some way to explain why suddenly each frame that was specifically made and based off of an individual suddenly has two genders. I'm not trying to wave a flaming flag that says no to this, but it doesn't make much sense to me honestly. 

Best way around this would be to restrict gender swapping/neutral skins to vanilla 'frames only and add to the lore that while the Primes were the ones built around the Zarimon children, the later 'frames were seen as fair game to change. 

[Rain3ternal]

Second Dream. Plus you have a problem changing skins but not a problem changing between female and male frames. The easiest answer is simply that a male and female had the same tenno powers at some point or another. DE even wanted the same idea but scrapped it. To me a Tennogen skin or item isn't canon. It's an optional thing to have but it doesn't impact the lore to the game. Otherwise many submissions would probabily be shot down for being non-canon or unlore friendly.

Second dream doesn't actually answer my point though. All the frames are directly lesser clones of the prime originals, which still means they are gender locked. The second dream doesn't work anyway in regards to gender changing a frame because the operator isn't actually inside the frame itself. At that point there is no purpose in making a frame fit a different gender, because it isn't for the comfort someone inside it.

DE scrapped that idea, and seemingly paved over it with lore that supports that each prime frame was built for a specific user, and that all frames that are not prime are less technologically advanced versions of those original frames. How would one have acquired the information in regards to changing the gender of a frame? 

[arch111]

Second dream doesn't actually answer my point though. All the frames are directly lesser clones of the prime originals, which still means they are gender locked. The second dream doesn't work anyway in regards to gender changing a frame because the operator isn't actually inside the frame itself. At that point there is no purpose in making a frame fit a different gender, because it isn't for the comfort someone inside it.

DE scrapped that idea, and seemingly paved over it with lore that supports that each prime frame was built for a specific user, and that all frames that are not prime are less technologically advanced versions of those original frames. How would one have acquired the information in regards to changing the gender of a frame?

Except the Operator have been switching between "gender" based warframes for years. I see absolutely no conflict in having two versions with the same powerkit.

And the Lore is pretty non existant when it comes to warframes. They stopped adding Lore to Primes for a reason. And I think the second Dream was that reason.

When I command Loki, do I feel different from commanding Ember? Yes I do, because female and male builds move differently and animate differently.

Is it not a way cooler idea that during the war, male and female Embers fought side by side?

I think so.

[Rain3ternal]

The operator changed warframes, that doesn't mean the gender of the operator changed along with it, and why would it? it's a puppet tethered to the operator via their power. All the frames were mass produced after their prime counterparts, so no it doesn't make much sense to me to try to justify a random gender change. A "male" ember alongside a "female" ember doesn't make sense because the original was built on a female user, meaning any and all copies of the original are just that: copies. These copies aren't physically attached to their users like the primes were supposed to be, so there is no need to tailor make these weapons to suit the gender. 

if lore implied that the operator were actually inside the suit, then by all means I'd think having a singular gender for a warframe would be strange. That doesn't seem to be the case though.  

[VoidWraith]

Well why not? This topic has been argued since Warframes came out and it was gender locked. 

 

Now if you have advanced in the quests, it seems fine to have gender alternate skins to existing frames.

At least that way, people won't have to come up with weird frame alternatives to existing frames already.

[arch111]

The operator changed warframes, that doesn't mean the gender of the operator changed along with it, and why would it? it's a puppet tethered to the operator via their power. All the frames were mass produced after their prime counterparts, so no it doesn't make much sense to me to try to justify a random gender change. A "male" ember alongside a "female" ember doesn't make sense because the original was built on a female user, meaning any and all copies of the original are just that: copies. These copies aren't physically attached to their users like the primes were supposed to be, so there is no need to tailor make these weapons to suit the gender.

if lore implied that the operator were actually inside the suit, then by all means I'd think having a singular gender for a warframe would be strange. That doesn't seem to be the case though.

If it was established canon that the Primes were built around or after a grown human, you have a point.

It is not.

All of this is spekulation. The operators are Child-size. They remote the warframe. Genders are as such unnecessary.

But since the Orokin and Tenno wanted their armors to look like humans, well like Gods actually, I think of them as ornate armors of old.

The rhino prime codex is still the best and only source we have on how a warframe was made. The creatures were (probably) the ones who were "built" around the Tenno; their consciousness inside, biotechnology giving them control.

Margulis discovered this and the Orokin made them into weapons.

> FINAL POINT <

I switch without effort from Ember to Rhino. They appear to be female and male by their proportions, I as user do not change. This is not even worth debating, we know what a Tenno is;

The symbiosis of void-mutated pilot and technocyte/forma host.

Why would anything Lorw-wise conflict the Orokin making both genders?

If you want an excuse - Excalibur and Nyx. It's been done allready.

[Z3ox]

I like the idea, in first point is just cosmetic, this can't change the lore, so dont worry about that.
And second there are times I do not feel comfortable playing with a 'female Frame, just that xD

[arch111]

I personally would love to explore female Ash - the frame they never made.

Male Ember, just because Blaze was once in the game.

Female Limbo and female Rhino are two fun ideas as well.

One must be choosen though.

If you had a choice, would you choose,

1. Ash

2. Limbo

3. Ember

4. Rhino

They all would pose some real design challenges.

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

I don't know why some of the post take this "gender" thing seriously.. I mean, it's just a skin and doesn't mean anything more than cosmetics and preference ..

 

I don't think the current lore is going to be affected by this gender-swap skin thing, because they're gender-less.

 

so why the hell not? let OP be creative

How do you know that....the primes might have "gender"?

Male valkyr.......Satan.

[arch111]

How do you know that....the primes might have "gender"?

Male valkyr.......Satan.

[Rain3ternal]

If it was established canon that the Primes were built around or after a grown human, you have a point.

It is not.

All of this is spekulation. The operators are Child-size. They remote the warframe. Genders are as such unnecessary.

But since the Orokin and Tenno wanted their armors to look like humans, well like Gods actually, I think of them as ornate armors of old.

The rhino prime codex is still the best and only source we have on how a warframe was made. The creatures were (probably) the ones who were "built" around the Tenno; their consciousness inside, biotechnology giving them control.

Margulis discovered this and the Orokin made them into weapons.

> FINAL POINT <

I switch without effort from Ember to Rhino. They appear to be female and male by their proportions, I as user do not change. This is not even worth debating, we know what a Tenno is;

The symbiosis of void-mutated pilot and technocyte/forma host.

Why would anything Lorw-wise conflict the Orokin making both genders?

If you want an excuse - Excalibur and Nyx. It's been done allready.

You literally just proved my point. There is no reason for opposite genders of existing frames to exist. The nyx and excal comparison falls flat because the frames don't share any of the same abilities. Visual similarities, sure. That is about it in terms of that though, if DE still wished to go that route why haven't they?

You just said that the genders were u necessary given the circumstances of how warframes actually work. I'm confused as to what point you're tryin to make.

[arch111]

You literally just proved my point. There is no reason for opposite genders of existing frames to exist. The nyx and excal comparison falls flat because the frames don't share any of the same abilities. Visual similarities, sure. That is about it in terms of that though, if DE still wished to go that route why haven't they?

You just said that the genders were u necessary given the circumstances of how warframes actually work. I'm confused as to what point you're tryin to make.

My point is that you or I do not know Primes were built around a person. Therefore, because of the Second Dream confirmed Tenno are not bound by the warframe, thre is no reson to have them gender-locked any more.

 

This is not a "random" gender-swap. I you imagine Primes were genderlocked, I can imagine them being made in pairs and their BP:s lost in time.

Do you see my point better now?

[Kai_Shiba]

My point is that you or I do not know Primes were built around a person. Therefore, because of the Second Dream confirmed Tenno are not bound by the warframe, thre is no reson to have them gender-locked any more.

 

This is not a "random" gender-swap. I you imagine Primes were genderlocked, I can imagine them being made in pairs and their BP:s lost in time.

Do you see my point better now?

 

They have mentioned in a devstream that there won't be gender swapping. They did, however, say that they could release a Warframe of the opposite gender but with a similar theme.

 

For all I know DE can make a Warframe similiar to Excalibur named Vorpal with different abilities. different gender but similiar theme. 

 

Plus, I still stand by my point for Tennogen. Locking "Genders" behind any form of paywall is horrible practice. That kind of practice turns players away. It doesn't matter if it's optional or not. Since genders is a touchy subject to begin with.

 

To add, I'm sure the workshop is going to be filled with this competition of people trying to make the best skin ever, flooding the workshop with no helmets. Just gender swapping skins.

 

Oh and uh, to everyone, Too lazy to google? This is why I said Vorpal as an example for a similiar Warframe like Excalibur (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Vorpal)

Edited January 21, 2016 by KJRenz