Draco! Starting To Become A Serious Problem...

[Guest]

Draco is for levelling only for me. Playing it all day would be boring, and I think other people find it boring too, so they will seek out for more missions.

I'm already experiencing a lot of boredom with the same maps over and over again, so I agree .

[----Fenrir----]

Run PUGs. They are way more forgiving than the recruiting bunch, and will not hesitate to revive you in case you make a mistake.

 

Yes, and you end up with people that hide somewhere or just run around and do parkour with loki because they know that not doing any damage will give them more XP for the stuff they want to level^^

[Cosmosframe]

It defeats the purpose of the game for me. It's sad seeing MR21's not knowing what to do in certain situations. How can newer players count on players via rank, if they themselves don't know the game... AS fellow RobWasHere said, maybe a nullifier solution on different tiers/levels of mission types can be our solution to the future of newer generations of WARFRAME players. Before anyone comments with a reply to my question: You play this game, you take the time to read this forum post, don't you worry about our fellow new Tenno? The people that are gonna recommend this game to their friends. Don't you want them to have the same experience as the one you had when you started? Think about it...

 

Rob.. 

I understand what you are saying ,but it's not the same game on which we started,  it became more complex, vivid and more demanding in certain parts, sorties for example,quests.Their experience will be better and more complete.At the end of the day all that matters is if you're having fun,and you can't wait to get back in again . that "linear"(don't like to use this word ) sense of progression will end up coming soon,so players will have ten times a better initial adventure. When we rushed those sectors and planets we didn't had 1/5 of what we have now .Rubedo was the hardest thing to get, and everything seemed so repetitive. Forcing the new players to go and clean sector after sector most of the times alone, not because of solo play but because of not enough people interested in that specific area is a little hardcore,look at the fomorian core escorts, you can't do it alone.

Fast track 3 and a half years from my initial experience,it is Completely different . New system rework will sort a lot of stuff out, it is up to us to adapt to change as well and to take those new players and engage their curiosity,sooner or later we all unlock the sectors,it's space, it shouldn't be a straight line. Mark a kuria every time you pass through one,and you'll see the interest peak and the questions starting to pour in.It is also our responsibility to share the stuff we know. 10 years from now Warframe will be unrecognizable, we can't ask the players at that time to do things like we did, same for the ones that logged for the first time this week . What we can do is help them build warframe gameplay foundations through  sharing of information.

[Guest]

Yes, and you end up with people that hide somewhere or just run around and do parkour with loki because they know that not doing any damage will give them more XP for the stuff they want to level^^

Even better, you get to farm ALL the focus while they run around like fools. But seriously, you can't blame them just because they find Draco boring. I found Warframe boring too, until today's tactical alert.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Guest

[(PSN)KAZZILLA99]

why not just mastery rank lock draco? mastery rank lock the more difficult planets save it for rank 8's or something that is fair. by rank 8 or so the player has experienced and tried enough weapons to know if he wants to skip some of the weapons we simply dont care for. mastery rank lock stops half of the people that abuse it, and turns spoon feed noobs into fans that know what they're doing because mastery rank can mean something again, kind of. 

maybe mastery rank lock isnt the wrench that will fix this, maybe if draco gets slightly nerfed but other missions get slightly buffed. any other mission that takes the same amount of time that draco takes, only gives you about 1/4 of the affinity that you would get in draco and not to mention the quick 5 minute missions like extermination where you basically get no affinity. maybe fixing affinity will solve the issue, but even then like some one stated earlier there will always be a mission that will get abused.

in all honesty this issue is petty because its not like we're being forced to run this mission endlessly, we have the freedom to play however we want, plus if it wasnt for a mission that allowed you to level up your gear quickly alot of people could have dropped the game ages ago because it adds to the grind that is rngesus. rng, now thats a real pain.

Edited February 13, 2016 by (PS4)KAZZILLA99

[Thebel]

Draco is less of a problem compared to other missions giving meaningless amounts of exp vs time and weapons being basically trash unranked. You can't use weapons for anything meaningful until it's ranked up.

[LightBriite]

So what? Why do you care if that guy doesn't know how to EV? If he doesn't then don't take him on your mission.... how does him not knowing this hurt YOU?

Wow, you're slow aren't you. If you bring a MR15 then a player SHOULD assume that this person who's at such a high MR know to some degree on how to play. He literally states that he was in a raid with this said guy and he didn't know how to EV, thus making it hard for the raid group when they don't have energy. Maybe instead of being a little tyke with attitude you practice some reading comprehension. 

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Draco is a symptom of a much bigger problem, which is how you gain experience in Warframe.

Its 150% this. I'm tired of people blaming Draco when the real culprit is crappy affinity gains on non-endless missions. The problem is amplified by using forma on equipment, requiring the player to have unranked frames and weapons, which could take dozens of runs to get back to max rank doing non-endless content. Ranking up from zero is not fun because your equipment  is crap, you have no abilities, and you're weak in a game about the player being powerful. And going back to do mercury content is a snooze fest compared to even mid level content. So people do the "draco's" to get past that crappy part to get back to the fun stuff.

 

Keep in mind, I don't care that DE in the future does decide to nerf Draco, I just don't want them nerfing frames again because of a single use case that hurts them in all their other applications and situations like they did in the case of Viver. 

[Guest]

Wow, you're slow aren't you. If you bring a MR15 then a player SHOULD assume that this person who's at such a high MR know to some degree on how to play. He literally states that he was in a raid with this said guy and he didn't know how to EV, thus making it hard for the raid group when they don't have energy. Maybe instead of being a little tyke with attitude you practice some reading comprehension. 

Actually, it's YOU that needs to work on reading comprehension. He specifically stated that the player in raid was MR 10, not 15. The one with MR 15 is relatively better, because it's a normal defense mission, not a raid. A trinity is relatively less important in that case. Plus,

MR.DOES.NOT.MEAN.ANYTHING

So stop "assuming" people who have high MR to know everything you expected them to. Yes, you CAN assume people with low MR to be a newbie, because everyone starts at that level. I didn't even know about ranking up back then. But you CAN'T assume people with high MR to be total professionals, just because they have an "MR 15" slapped on their backs.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Guest

[AcheronHades]

Well you gotta level your weapons and frames somewhere.

Also: I enjoy the game. Leveling stuff however isnt among my favourite activities. (leveling AW isnt bearable unless you can get x4 affinity. AW is ok - but leveling AW was the most tedious time ever).

I have leveled a lot of gear at other places than draco and I have to say - the joy of playing an unleveled frame/weapon continues to elude me. Only playing Draco is an issue. But leveling your stuff, modding it properly and then enjoying it cant really be one.

 

Regarding the Draco spawn/ focus gain nerf: Well I'll bring my usual setup, still works decently and without any risk of screwing a mission up and go watch something on the second monitor while pressing a button repeatedly. It just takes longer. yay. More interesting alternatives to level/gain focus is the way to go, not making something less interesting without a proper alternative.

[felixsylvaris]

There are a lot of good pleas why to nerf Draco. Making players gametime miserable experience so they will wipe tears with new Ivara skin is a good one.

 

But my pet peeve is arguing that "It increase MR for new players, this new players dont even know how to play the game, but have as large e-pen as me!" Really MR dosnt matter (it does for standings, login rewards, extractors, and weapon access) leveling all Mk1 weapons does not make anyone better players. If you have drain 80 frame it dosnt matter if you have also 20 more frames at level 30. Dont care about mr. it makes you worse.

 

Apart from that, nerfing Draco will result in some new best ways to power level, or people will power level in Void farming things. Generally it will not improve anything.

 

The good idea is to change weapon polarization system, to not require leveling it again, and again, and again. Idea of "atune polarized weapon to 100% while still being level 30 with all benefits" is neat. Multi formating weapon would still require same amount of XP but at this time player could do something which considers fun.

 

There is too much in WF of doing things before fun starts.

 

And there are some ideas to make other quests more appealing. Like 1st time completicion reward or starchart completicion rewards. But this are more complicated.

[cowhert]

The problem being presented here is that farming provides more exp/hour than running missions (quests in more traditional rpgs)  this is actually a common concern in rpgs (warframe is similar to an action rpg).  The way this is fixed is reducing exp/kill and increasing exp gain for objectives or mission complete.  That is assuming the devs see this as an issue.  

[Jangkrik]

I don't like Draco as much as you do, but I think people should be allowed to grind their way to the top faster than they need to be (I admit, I sometimes do Draco). I mean, do you like to bring low level weapons to missions and become a burden because your weapon doesn't have forma?

I think it's better to facilitate the ones who need to get their equipment MAX ASAP instead of forcing them to run missions normally with sub optimal gear (which is also very boring and more time consuming than Draco).

Unless, of course, DE change the leveling and modding systems so that bringing low level equipment to missions won't make you become a dead weight.

In conclusion, I'm standing against removing fast leveling methods like Draco unless DE also change the leveling and modding systems so that low level gears won't be useless in either normal or endless missions.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Jangkrik

[Himodor]

Personally, as a week old player, I use Defense missions (or excavation missions) on Jupiter and Saturn as my go to for Leveling stuff. Unranked weapons can still do the damage at that level and its pretty fun. The PUG groups I have been doing stuff with (I have no friends, boo hoo) are generally pretty reasonable and no-one minds what frame I'm in. People are always there to rev people.

That said I don't have access to Draco and I have no idea what Forma means, apart from something that's an ingredient for crafting some things like Dual Grakista. CLEM!!

Edited February 28, 2016 by Himodor

[(XBOX)Cephalon 7]

Yes nerf draco but after I hit mr21 :) I've already got my full experience. XD

[(PSN)Bob_Dole478]

I feel like I have played cat/mouse with DE over farming for the last year. I do not agree with some of the decisions made (such as nerfing greedy pull thereby making mag less of a team player and relegating him to being useful only against specific factions). I think some of the above posters have hit on some good points (e.g. problem is xp gain in general, problem related to way forma/weapon leveling works, MR lock Draco, etc...). Let's call a truce with the nerf hammer and discuss more. The most important thing to me is that I am having fun. If I have to grind longer to max a weapon after formaing it that reduces my fun. I hope that if DE considers this to be a problem (already a hot topic) that it will work with the player community to come up with a solution that does not involve trying to nerf it into oblivion or refactor large amounts of code. Cheers. 

[----Fenrir----]

On 27.2.2016 at 3:11 AM, cowhert said:

The problem being presented here is that farming provides more exp/hour than running missions (quests in more traditional rpgs)  this is actually a common concern in rpgs (warframe is similar to an action rpg).  The way this is fixed is reducing exp/kill and increasing exp gain for objectives or mission complete.  That is assuming the devs see this as an issue.  

Pointless, that would simply move the farming from killing as many enemies as possible to speed running very short missions like Capture as fast as possible.

[phoenix1992]

I just run the invasions for the "affinity thirst". For some reason they give a lot of affinity + the various resource drops on planets + the rewards from the mission + it kinda feels good to punch phorid in the face.  But I can not and should not be able to force other people to do that, or any of the experience mills that are not Draco.

Edited March 1, 2016 by phoenix1992

[marelooke]

Dare I bring up the removal of taxiing? Making people actually play the game until they manage to unlock Draco would probably fix quite a bit of the problems with players not knowing what to do since all they ever did was Draco... It would also fix the problem with people being in sorties that really shouldn't be there...

I wouldn't want to remove the ability to quickly rank up weapons for experienced players (besides, as has been mentioned before, nerf Draco and another node takes its place), however rookies should learn to play before getting access to Draco.

[(PSN)CANDER0US-0RD0-]

There is no problem with draco,the only problem is people complaining about it,players have the right to play as they choose and i don't understand the posts complaining about it,just because some people don't like it doesn't mean it needs changing,just respect other players choices and concentrate on your own game, if you don't like draco don't play it,if you do like it play it,i don't use draco to level up personally but i don't criticise anyone who does,also some people don't have a lot of time to play warframe and need somewhere to level up quickly,let people do their own thing 

[RB-377]

On 3/1/2016 at 2:15 PM, marelooke said:

Dare I bring up the removal of taxiing? Making people actually play the game until they manage to unlock Draco would probably fix quite a bit of the problems with players not knowing what to do since all they ever did was Draco... It would also fix the problem with people being in sorties that really shouldn't be there...

I wouldn't want to remove the ability to quickly rank up weapons for experienced players (besides, as has been mentioned before, nerf Draco and another node takes its place), however rookies should learn to play before getting access to Draco.

And there we go ladies and gentlemen, he got the point why I really started the topic. Thank you good Sir. And I really do hope that DE takes some of the opinions lifted in this thread as it can prove useful for future development in WARFRAME. Let's hope the new map fixes a few of the mentioned questions and "problems" . 

Rob.

[Sunfaiz]

On 1/16/2016 at 5:19 PM, Cyborg-Rox said:

The only difference between Draco and any other endless mission at level 30+ is that it's easier finding public matches to join.

It's literally nothing special at all, it's not like it has 400% more xp gain.

I just hit one. I have Warframe open in a small window and watch netflix on the other. You don't want me to stealth farm ? I don't need to play your game.

[Cyborg-Rox]

9 hours ago, Sunfaiz said:

I just hit one. I have Warframe open in a small window and watch netflix on the other. You don't want me to stealth farm ? I don't need to play your game.

...Okay? How's that relevant to anything I said? Also, this topic is old.

[SilentCynic]

Draco is a symptom of a problem, one that DE's worsening patch by patch.

Grinding for affinity, for focus, and for syndicate rep is a slow and mind-numbing process if one doesn't turn to some of the big XP sources in the game (Which often, in their efficiency, are not exactly exciting for the player). I would never argue for instant gratification, but the players turn to Draco because it's the best source of what would otherwise consume much more of their time to achieve.

We would be seeing less upset regarding Draco if many of the other modes were competitive in terms of XP provided, but for the most part they lag behind immensely. Constant nerfs to the XP gained by stealthing (which has long been one of the only viable alternatives in terms of XP/h) has left Draco standing tall once more, and thus draws all the more flak to this particular map. This is very contradictory behaviour, and one must wonder if DE's treading lightly to avoid angering the community by taking the axe to the most popular node in the game.

Ultimately, DE has two choices: either reduce Draco's XP, or adjust other missions to offer a similar payout.

[Sziklamester]

the problem mostly laying on the XP gaining. If u need a loot cave soon appear another one. There is no so much reason to play other missions after u unlocked the entire solar map because others no rewarding. It is a huge problem for new players whom not find squads on lower levels when they want to play on public. The play together experience is broken in many way it is just one of the few major problems which needs to be solved. For a right direction would be nice if they makes the other missions more rewarding in equal XP and loot and chances for a good drop. Maybe more people will doing more lower or medium level missions in order to get loots and XP. They should make an affinity and loot 2.0 until this will continue.