Trinity Small Changes, Without Her Getting A Much Needed Rework

[Feallike]

Trinity is OP. She is just incredibly OP the most OP frame in the game that it is disgusting to even call her a frame. She isn't a balanced frame it's impossible to use trinity to her full potential without making the game easy mode.

 

The main problem is EV it gives you more energy then the cost to cast. That is stupid, that is beyond stupid. Nothing in a game should negate its own cost. Though I will get to that let me focus on all her abilities first.

 

Well of Life: This is a decent ability I would like to change it to give constant heal over time instead of requiring you to shoot at it. Though other than that it is perfectly viable. 

 

Improvements:

 

Increase its base range (Though don't make it possible to allow the whole map to be Well of Lifed like another ability)

 

Make it heal over time rather than require you to shoot.

 

Energy Vampire: 

 

3 small changes to make this not stupidly OP. 

 

1. If you kill a enemy while it is in EV faze you will not get all the energy waves. No that no longer happens you now have to wait for it go through its waves to get max energy. This forces you to stop nuking if you want energy and actually guess what CONSERVE ENERGY. (lets be honest if your at levels in which you have to constantly spam abilities to survive. The game probably isn't balanced to go that high level don't you think?!?!?)

 

2. Power strength increases the amount of waves of energy along with increasing energy gain. This should further decrease the whole Spam2towin. 

 

3. Trinity will not gain any energy from her own EV. OK seriously who in the right mind decided to give a frame the ability to give itself max energy in one ability. Who thought that was balanced and then made it a team skill? Who thought that was balanced? 

P.S Don't give me that whole then solo players will be screwed. She is a team support frame she isn't suppose to be survivable. It should be a challenge for a medic to survive solo. It shouldn't be easier than stealth frame.

 

 

Link: 

 

Another good ability that is overshadowed by Trinities other OP abilities. 

 

Changes:

 

Enemies will primarily aggro trinity like Rhino skin draws aggro.

 

Self damage doesn't work. (not sure if it still does I think it doesn't but making sure)

 

Energy orbs are more common when killed by link 50% more chance. This should compensate for the whole EV not giving her energy anymore.

 

 

Blessing:

 

Again who in their right mind made this ability! Who thought it was smart to give a insta shield and HP heal to a frame while giving it damage reduction on the side. O and then give it infinite range because FUN. 

 

Changes:
 

1. Trinity can't heal herself with blessing. If Trinity wants to heal Trinity then Trinity better put a Well of life up.

 

2. The Damage reduction is not shared between teammates. You get your own damage reduction based on your damage not your teammates. So just because Mirage is at 1 HP doesn't mean you get 99% damage reduction. No you at max HP get 0% because unlike Mirage you aren't damaged. You don't need it.

 

 

Before you scream and cry about this making the game to hard and we needing this frame. People play Raids, Sorties, and NM raids without Trinity all the time. She doesn't need to be this OP she makes the game incredibly boring. No one commonly goes high enough waves to make her have to be as OP as she is right now. She is uneedingly too OP. No normal players goes to wave 100, and they shouldn't.

 

Their we go, now here's a frame that isn't OP. A frame that can be compared to Oberon. A frame that doesn't make frames like oberon complete crap. Doesn't it feel good to know when you take a trinity to a match you aren't required to spam 2 and 4 or be screamed at for being a noob. It didn't even require a much needed REWORK.

 

P.S You have 4 revives that restock every missions. You can die a couple of times It won't kill you. (ha jokes)

 

P.P.S: If you don't like it don't use it argument is stupid. If you use that excuse I will swiftly laugh at you and ignore your comment. Again Feedback is appreciated but don't simply say NO or give no reasons that doesn't give me any info.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Feallike

[Kai_Shiba]

Tread carefully and may flame repellent bless you.

Edited January 17, 2016 by KJRenz

[Feallike]

Edit out your second statement At the top. That's asking for a warning point.

Tread carefully and may flame repellent bless you.

 

Fair enough I was kinda hyperboling when I said that. I love trinity as a frame but I hate using her because I just feel like a God among mortals. Its fun at first then becomes meh. Then becomes.... Why even bother.

 

I have never been in a situation where I needed a Trinity without being at some stupidly high wave.

[Kai_Shiba]

Fair enough I was kinda hyperboling when I said that. I love trinity as a frame but I hate using her because I just feel like a God among mortals. Its fun at first then becomes meh. Then becomes.... Why even bother.

 

I have never been in a situation where I needed a Trinity without being at some stupidly high wave.

I'm in between about Trinity.

Though I understand both sides of the arguments, not the less thought out but more thought out ones.

Again, keep the flame repellent up.

[rawr1254]

Yes to WoF

Yes to Link excluding no self damage.

No to everything else and don't you dare ask me to tell you why.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

-Snip-

 

Have you beaten the raids yet? 

 

All of them? Including nightmare?

 

Cause without a trinity in TJV healing archwings, Theres almost no way to beat it

Edited January 17, 2016 by (PS4)UltraKardas

[Feallike]

Yes to WoF

Yes to Link excluding no self damage.

No to everything else and don't you dare ask me to tell you why.

 

Why. Their is no reason not to give your opinions on why my idea is bad. If your reason is better than my reason then good for you go on and show me why I am wrong and you are right.

 

 

Have to beaten the raids yet? 

 

All of them? Including nightmare?

 

Cause without a trinity in TJV healing archwings, Theres almost no way to beat it

 

Yes I have. >.> I have also soloed a hour into T4s. Without guess what a trinity! 

 

Again she is not needed to be so OP. She can be strong but she is about 10 steps too far on the OP side.

 

 

P.S Its like 1:00 A.M where I am so going to bed so delay on any feedback.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Feallike

[OriVerda]

As someone who mains a Trinity I think she's actually UP but that's probably bias.

How exactly are you able to survive T4 for an hour solo btw?

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Why. Their is no reason not to give your opinions on why my idea is bad. If your reason is better than my reason then good for you go on and show me why I am wrong and you are right.

 

 

 

Yes I have. >.> I have also soloed a hour into T4s. Without guess what a trinity! 

 

Again she is not needed to be so OP. She can be strong but she is about 10 steps too far on the OP side.

 

 

P.S Its like 1:00 A.M where I am so going to bed so delay on any feedback.

 

k So explain with your changes how people are supposed to survive outside Jordas with kamikazes nearly one shotting people

[faiznorizan]

As someone who mains a Trinity I think she's actually UP but that's probably bias.

How exactly are you able to survive T4 for an hour solo btw?

 

i think any frame can do it. It's just a matter of not making it a boring grind like everything else. so when u nuke trin into oblivion, she basically becomes quite squishy with OP's suggested changes.

 

To OP.

-Why not just remove damage reduction on bless then?

-You do realize, just by reducing duration, EV is still viable for spam? all the waves come out before your own gun comes up to finish the cast animation. <2 seconds for all the waves to jump out iirc. I only ever mod trin for EV bombs anyway.

-Also, i hardly see trin used anyway, how will this changes make her more fun to play in your opinion?

-if WOL become a beacon of healing, I'm all for it. I kinda use WoL+EV combo anyway

 

-Is this more of a rant post? it sounds like a rant post.

-I hope you maxed out your flame repellent mod. glhf lol

[Otenko]

I play Trinity a fair bit and I do agree that her abilities are pretty crazy. She's never stopped being good in any of her iterations, but I think a little care needs to be taken with her changes. As you probably have noticed, simple changes can really make Trinity go nuts, namely the EV buff.

 

Energy Vampire

The Pool of Life augment could somewhat be used as a way to gain energy as well, but I'm glad that your Link idea gives Trinity some measure of recouping energy.

 

I agree a bit with EV requiring to baby-sit enemies again. When EV let out all of its energy on enemy death, I knew that was the craziest buff Trinity's ever gotten. I half-expected it to contribute to ability spam in the way that it currently does, but I didn't expect it to end up contributing to maximized power range abilities covering the entire map.

 

Link

If Link is going to draw aggro, then it should probably have a shorter cast time. With your changes, it's her only defensive skill, so it should be evaluated as such.

 

Rhino's Iron Skin benefits from the aggro because of how its HP scales with enemy damage in those 4 seconds, whereas Link's benefit from extra aggro would be just adding extra damage essentially and removed threat from allies. However, Link's cast time is fairly long and Trinity has no other forms of defense (especially if Blessing has no self-heal). If Rhino's in trouble when Iron Skin runs out, he can Rhino Charge or Rhino Stomp to gain some time or distance. If Link runs out for Trinity, she can either cast Link again, which is fairly dangerous if you're already attracting more aggro, or essentially just roll away, which can work somewhat but suddenly makes Link a dangerous skill to have around in a crowd.

 

Considering how Trinity's other defensive stats are average-poor, we need to figure out what else needs a redress if you're removing Blessing from affecting her.

 

Well of Life

I think if Blessing doesn't work on Trinity anymore, then Well of Life should have a faster cast time than it currently does.

 

Well of Life's cast time is pretty long if that's going to be Trinity's method of health restoration. If the HoT effect of Well of Life takes too long to start-up and/or if the HoT effect is too slow or infrequent, then it's honestly probably better to just use Health Restores instead of Well of Life. If you're planning on changing her other skills to not affect herself, then she could use something for herself that isn't exceedingly slow.

 

In addition, Well of Life makes enemy health exceedingly high (10x normal health). If Well of Life is going to be depended on as a healing skill, for Trinity or anyone else, then it's going to essentially hinder allies by making the enemy harder to kill. Because of this, I'd say Well of Life should be recastable on other enemies while it's duration is still active, but it will cancel the Well of Life used on the previous enemy. If you accidentally cast it on a Bombard, you're now stuck with a 10x health Bombard that is going to open fire on you when the duration ends. Now you have to keep an eye out for when Well of Life ends in addition to trying to heal allies and making sure you're alive and in a "safe" situation to cast Link on top of regular gameplay and all of that.  Basically a wrong cast of Well of Life can snowball into a bad situation if you can't re-cast Well of Life early.

 

Blessing

Also, I'm not totally sure how much I agree with Blessing not giving equal DR to everyone. I think the issue with your suggestion is that having asymmetric DR across all allies means that certain allies will now be able to take more damage. If one ally has 99% Blessing and another has 1%, you can probably bet that 1% guy will need a Blessing due to essentially being fully vulnerable. If you cast Blessing again to heal the 1% guy, you're essentially sweeping the buff out from under people that had it.

 

I guess what I mean is that, if you're trying to use Blessing to heal, you'll have to heal everyone "separately." Since Blessing automatically affects everyone, recasting it will cause players with the buff to lose it spontaneously (and sporadically depending on when Trinity notices allies taking damage). Because of this, the damage buff is arguably inconsequential because it can be unreliable. If you're going to have everyone have their separate DR, then subsequent casts of Blessing shouldn't "refresh" the DR if it's lower than the current amount. For example, 55% Blessing won't go down to 0% if you recast Blessing while you still have 3s of 55% Blessing left.

 

I think that the damage reduction should just have some kind of arbitrary cap, but still affect all allies equally. Probably 70 or 75% at maximum and definitely shouldn't exceed 85% under any circumstances. Having 99% DR is too much, but having everyone have their own set turns the DR offered by Blessing into a very clunky spot-heal. Considering Blessing's cast-time, it's supposed to be a spot-heal that you use to save allies in peril.

 

Sorry my post is a bit of a mess, but I felt like I had to put this stuff out here. I personally don't agree with your changes, but agree that Trinity is a bit of a mess right now and totally needs changes.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Otenko

[rawr1254]

k So explain with your changes how people are supposed to survive outside Jordas with kamikazes nearly one shotting people

^ This is your problem with your EV/Bless change. If you change EV/Bless you need to change pretty much the rest of the game too. EV/Bless is needed for all raids. With the change of EV/Bless likely pizzas will need to be buffed because now everyones gonna have to spam them in raids/etc. Now people will run with 8 Valkyrs/Wukongs/Rhinos in raids because we all dont have the dmg reduction of Blessing. Energy Leech enemies may need to be changed around the removal of EV. I can put more but I choose not to.

[VoidWraith]

I think all warframes are capable of soloing, regardless of what their roles are meant to be.

 

She may be a team medic, but I have seen games where a priest can pretty much tank due to the skills they possessed like; converting damage to mp and then healing themselves, which creates a crazy cycle. Or the MP regen is higher than the cost to heal themselves, that they practically can't die because of their stats.

 

But this just tells me that it is based on their equipments. 

In this case, the mod set-up/build for any particular frame.

 

Yes, technically she is meant as a support, but depending on how you build her, she can be a tank (Solo Trinity using a Link/Bless build). 

Her abilities like Energy Vampire and Blessing, can make one near invulnerable, but they can still be killed, due to player error in judgement, or lag. 

 

If you have them fix one thing, some players will just adapt, and build for some other skill that maximizes on the effect of that skill and then, to some players will be viewed as "OP" just because they max/min their build with mods. That probably took time to max individually.

 

It's almost like with Saryn, while her skills are still costly, she can still nuke. There is a costly set up, but with certain builds and loadout/set ups, the energy cost can still be minimal, if you don't nuke spam like crazy, but just be tactical about it (which every player should be, ideally).

 

 

Well of Life: This is a decent ability I would like to change it to give constant heal over time instead of requiring you to shoot at it. Though other than that it is perfectly viable. 

 

Improvements:

 

Increase its base range (Though don't make it possible to allow the whole map to be Well of Lifed like another ability)

 

Make it heal over time rather than require you to shoot.

 

This is debatable. To me I don't mind the shooting at it to heal requirement. Even if you make it do wave pulses like with Energy Vampire, DE might make it where each pulse causes enemy to lose their HP. In a sense it's like EV but instead of restoring energy, it restores Health.

 

 

Energy Vampire doesn't really "negate" the cost. There was actual cost, but the effects of the ability covered up for the cost. I guess technically it is considered a negative value, when you consider it, especially with maxed power strength and efficiency builds, the energy you get back, still outweighs the cost of using the skill, especially when you include the augmented skill effect of giving overshields upon full energy.

 

 

Energy Vampire: 

 

3 small changes to make this not stupidly OP. 

 

1. If you kill a enemy while it is in EV faze you will not get all the energy waves. No that no longer happens you now have to wait for it go through its waves to get max energy. This forces you to stop nuking if you want energy and actually guess what CONSERVE ENERGY. (lets be honest if your at levels in which you have to constantly spam abilities to survive. The game probably isn't balanced to go that high level don't you think?!?!?)

 

2. Power strength increases the amount of waves of energy along with increasing energy gain. This should further decrease the whole Spam2towin. 

 

3. Trinity will not gain any energy from her own EV. OK seriously who in the right mind decided to give a frame the ability to give itself max energy in one ability. Who thought that was balanced and then made it a team skill? Who thought that was balanced? 

P.S Don't give me that whole then solo players will be screwed. She is a team support frame she isn't suppose to be survivable. It should be a challenge for a medic to survive solo. It shouldn't be easier than stealth frame.

 

1. I guess this makes sense, but most EV Trinity builds go for negative duration, so most of those waves pulses out that it already covered or more than covered the cost of casting it anyway.

 

2. Yeah... going back to the first point, negative duration, makes the energy wave pulses out faster.

 

3. Why? if anything, you would rather make her gain decreased energy back, compared to her allies. Like she gains 50% of energy back from the skill's total output vs her allies that gain the regular 100% of energy gained from the skill's total output. As you said, she is a team based player, even Oberon's Reckoning skill affects himself. But as I said, due to max/min of builds from mods, a lot of skills are viewed as "OP" but due to human errors, I still see Trinities falling (reasons can vary). She has a base armor of 15, which is understandable, seeing as she was created on the idea, that she is the healer. Problem with that is her healing and energy regen abilities, along with her damage mitigation, requires an enemy. Otherwise she can't cast she actual healing ability normally. Without an enemy, she won't have the necessary energy to cast Blessing. You can say she can just collect energy orbs, or use energy pads, or wait for energy siphon aura to replenish/regen energy, or a combination of them, but regardless with out them, she can't cast Blessing by herself. 

 

 

Link: 

 

Another good ability that is overshadowed by Trinities other OP abilities. 

 

Changes:

 

Enemies will primarily aggro trinity like Rhino skin draws aggro.

 

Self damage doesn't work. (not sure if it still does I think it doesn't but making sure)

 

Energy orbs are more common when killed by link 50% more chance. This should compensate for the whole EV not giving her energy anymore.

 

 

Well.... eh, I think Link is ok as is (whether self-damaging is still there or removed). It's a damage mitigation ability. The aggro draw is debatable. 50% is still a pretty big number, especially for Trinities built for duration like Link/Blessing Trinities. This makes gaining energy back as if your suggested changes with EV just another problem with it being "OP". This would just replace another "OP" skill (EV), with another. Since it now draws aggro, you can now essentially have more chances of getting more energy back. The augment skill for Link will make higher level enemies easier as well, if they are Linked.

 

 

Blessing:

 

Again who in their right mind made this ability! Who thought it was smart to give a insta shield and HP heal to a frame while giving it damage reduction on the side. O and then give it infinite range because FUN. 

 

Changes:
 

1. Trinity can't heal herself with blessing. If Trinity wants to heal Trinity then Trinity better put a Well of life up.

 

2. The Damage reduction is not shared between teammates. You get your own damage reduction based on your damage not your teammates. So just because Mirage is at 1 HP doesn't mean you get 99% damage reduction. No you at max HP get 0% because unlike Mirage you aren't damaged. You don't need it.

 

Fun is very subjective. Not everyone has the same idea of what is fun. So not everyone can be pleased. 

 

1. Well of Life requires an enemy as a catalyst, and therefore is not always a dependable way to heal yourself. You can also be one-shot'ed, especially in situations where energy is scarce (sortie missions with energy reduction as a condition, eximus enemies that drain energy, or nightmare runs with similar conditions)

 

2. This is ok to me. Problem to arise, is that Trinity players may care for damage reduction and stick with short, faster healing with the negative duration, or shorter duration. They may also just prioritize themselves instead of someone with low HP. Just because you are a Trinity, doesn't mean you won't get damaged. I often see Trinities falling. No one is perfect, not even the elitist who play this game.

 

 

 

As I have said, players (most or some of them) are pretty much adaptable. They may use builds/mods to make certain skills seem OP. 

The skills themselves aren't bad, it's just the mods that change how the skill works, that makes it seem OP. For example, if duration mods had no effect on EV, to make the pulses come out faster on negative duration, and/or with your suggestion, killing the enemy does not give out all the energy the total output of the pulses would have given.

 

Even with my example with Saryn. Not a lot of Saryn players, but the ones I do see, are still very powerful and helpful.

 

This is still pretty much a PVE game. I'm always amazed when I see people yell out "You are too OP". To me, it would be a good thing, in that it gets the target/monster/enemy killed faster. If it's about gaining affinity, even more so, that it's helpful. For focus farming, you would rather solo, or recruit from friends, clan, recruit chat, or recruit section on the forums here. PUGs aren't a great place to find great people (usually they have very poor attitudes) to do missions with. 

 

PVP seems to be struggling, but I still see DE make a lot of Conclave/PVP related changes, more so than the PVE side of it (not that it really needs it, in my opinion, other than bug fixes and what not).

Edited January 17, 2016 by VoidWraith

[DSMatticus]

You should not bring up raid in balance discussions. Raids are a mess, and the reason they are a mess is because the game is so fundamentally imbalanced. DE wanted to make difficult content, and the only thing they could think to do was make enemies into instakilling murder machines and then try to distract us from our CC spam with simple coordination "puzzles."

 

Raids are a symptom of the problem. Raids are the way they are because the game is broke. We should not keep the game broke so we can keep playing raids - we should fix the game so we can get something better than the current raids.

[(PSN)devack13]

I main Trinity, and i see that you seem displeased by her in current form but i urge you to remember she has no powers that are even close to hostile this causes her to get overwhelmed easily, she is dependent upon the team to aid her in CC the damage that goes out from link is too low to kill anything above LV 20. And you would be making a vary valid point about blessing if this was update 12 or so when it was OP as hell but now it requires focus and a keen eye to use it effectively. And as for energy Vampire, it's not as game breaking as you seem to think, unless you are in a team that is coordinating around Trinity it is not that powerful, it's used to keep your energy up mainly. In most random games people run around and well...have fun so they do not have a never ending energy stream. It is not as crazy as it may seem and to boot only experienced Trinity's even know how to use most of the powers in a proper manner anyways. I think what you are drawing from is seeing people who have a well modded build and at that point a LOT of frames are OP the list is a bit too long to go down but i hope this changed your mind a bit.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

You should not bring up raid in balance discussions. Raids are a mess, and the reason they are a mess is because the game is so fundamentally imbalanced. DE wanted to make difficult content, and the only thing they could think to do was make enemies into instakilling murder machines and then try to distract us from our CC spam with simple coordination "puzzles."

 

Raids are a symptom of the problem. Raids are the way they are because the game is broke. We should not keep the game broke so we can keep playing raids - we should fix the game so we can get something better than the current raids.

 

If raids where instadeath, There would be no need for a trinity. As you would just simply die. Teams would be full CC like a nova, mirage, Frost x2, vaubun Ivara and maybe valkyr.

 

Raids are the most balanced thing in the game as people are as powerful as they can be fighting equal powerful enemies. And they are currently impossible without a trinity

[Feallike]

Sorry for the huge delay on feedback. ._. Feelsbadman

-snip-

 

I can agree to increasing cast speed. I always run a Natural Talent on any frame that needs quick reactions. Trinity being one of them because I want to quickly react to a situation rather then be nuked by enemies.

 

On the topic of blessing. I see a bunch of people saying that if you change the damage reduction that it removes its use in game.

 

The whole point of the damage reduction is to keep the players in harms way from being hurt more, and have it not benefit the players being hurt. If someone is about to go down they need the reduction much more than someone who has yet to be shot. This basically just keeps people from going GOdmode because one of their teammates messed up.

 

It gives a buffer but doesn't help the whole team. It also gives more incentive to not mess up and take a bucket of damage when you get a lucky blessing proc that gives decent damage reduction to everyone. 

 

Blessing instead of being spammed will become timed for when everyone is at low HP rather then one random tenno. If you want to use the damage reduction to its fully potental you can't just spam blessing.

 

On the topic of EV.

 

If trinity can gain any energy from EV then players will find some way to make it possible to gain infinite energy for Trinity. That is just the reality of the situation. I cannot think of the math that would allow the DE to balance EV to give Trinity energy without having some build exist that gives her infinite energy. Without making the skill under powered and unusable in team combat.

 

i think any frame can do it. It's just a matter of not making it a boring grind like everything else. so when u nuke trin into oblivion, she basically becomes quite squishy with OP's suggested changes.

 

To OP.

-Why not just remove damage reduction on bless then?

-You do realize, just by reducing duration, EV is still viable for spam? all the waves come out before your own gun comes up to finish the cast animation. <2 seconds for all the waves to jump out iirc. I only ever mod trin for EV bombs anyway.

-Also, i hardly see trin used anyway, how will this changes make her more fun to play in your opinion?

-if WOL become a beacon of healing, I'm all for it. I kinda use WoL+EV combo anyway

 

-Is this more of a rant post? it sounds like a rant post.

-I hope you maxed out your flame repellent mod. glhf lol

 

I kinda hyperbole a lot I wasn't trying to rant at all I just get excited when I right stuff like this and hyperbole. 

 

Also I didn't think of mentioning this but reducing duration wouldn't make the waves come out faster. Yes I realize if it did that would negate the change. 

 

I don't know how to make her more fun. Right now she is basically just a team support that is a God and makes the game boring. I don't see a way to change that role without a rework. Though I am not going to rework her. She is a fine frame and is chalanging to use if you don't use her to her full potental. Though since at her full potential she is OP she causes balance problems.

 

I am not here to rework her, just to make a couple simple changes that could be done in a hotfix to make her not OP. She needs a rework but I am not the guy to do it.

 

I main Trinity, and i see that you seem displeased by her in current form but i urge you to remember she has no powers that are even close to hostile this causes her to get overwhelmed easily, she is dependent upon the team to aid her in CC the damage that goes out from link is too low to kill anything above LV 20. And you would be making a vary valid point about blessing if this was update 12 or so when it was OP as hell but now it requires focus and a keen eye to use it effectively. And as for energy Vampire, it's not as game breaking as you seem to think, unless you are in a team that is coordinating around Trinity it is not that powerful, it's used to keep your energy up mainly. In most random games people run around and well...have fun so they do not have a never ending energy stream. It is not as crazy as it may seem and to boot only experienced Trinity's even know how to use most of the powers in a proper manner anyways. I think what you are drawing from is seeing people who have a well modded build and at that point a LOT of frames are OP the list is a bit too long to go down but i hope this changed your mind a bit.

 

I think the problem is more on the energy system. You will still have infinite energy if Trinity can keep her own energy up. She can't just LMAO SPAM anymore she now has to keep a eye on her teammates.

 

This doesn't take away from her being the same role. This just makes it harder to reach the same levels, and impossible to be Godmode. I don't want to make her useless I just don't want her to be God mode and make frames like Oberon stupidly bad.

 

Oberon should be a good trade off for a trinity if the mission doesn't require constant healing. Those two should be changable. At the moment though they are not.

 

Oberon is like a worse trinity with a couple offensive abilities. So its OK for trin to be a better support but at the moment she is a God and Oberon is the dirt beneath her feet in comparison.

 

 

-snip-

 

I agree that she should be able to solo. Though she is a support team frame, I shouldn't be able to take my Draco build to Ceres and be able to cake walk my way through it because of infinite energy and healing. That is MUCH different then a dedicated tank build.

 

On the topic of why no energy back for her. If she gets energy back then people will find a way to break the game. It will be endless. If you permenantly and cruely rip that out and remove that option from ever being capable then it fixes the problem. This is closing that option alltogether not just making it narrower and requiring more mods. That is a bandaid solution.

 

On the topic of Trin not being able to heal herself with bless. This is to keep her from Godmoding she needs to decide whether she should heal herself or to use blessing. She can't just heal herself whenever and this is further punished by the removal of damage reduction if she does try it. She can't make herself stronger. Again she is a team frame, she now has a way to heal herself, and a way to negate 95% of damage and increase energy orb droprate. She doesn't need a full heal and damage reduction ontop of that. 

 

She is a team frame she is stronger than Oberon at teamplay but not as strong at protecting and damaging enemies. I find that to be a good balance for Trinity. Though your ideas do make sense. 

 

I am fine with her being very strong. Though no game should be capable of becoming God mode. That isn't fun I want to play trinity at her full potential and feel danger and urgency at wave 40 of T4 Defense. Not be on my phone texting and pressing 2 every couple seconds and 4 whenever I glimpse at my teammates losing HP.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Feallike

[Feallike]

If raids where instadeath, There would be no need for a trinity. As you would just simply die. Teams would be full CC like a nova, mirage, Frost x2, vaubun Ivara and maybe valkyr.

 

Raids are the most balanced thing in the game as people are as powerful as they can be fighting equal powerful enemies. And they are currently impossible without a trinity

 

I think their is a video on youtube of someone doing a raid with only Excal... :/ I will try to find it but I have heard of MANY people not using Trinity on a raid and having a fine time.

 

I am not trying to make her not strong in Raids. That isn't the point I simply just making her not God mode OP8 OMGZ mode. Raids will be a challenge even with trinity and not a snooze fest.

 

 

Edit: Confirmed by Tumblr (I feel dirty for saying that line. ._.)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/3iw7r3/one_frame_only_raids/

Edited January 17, 2016 by Feallike

[(PSN)devack13]

Sorry for the huge delay on feedback. ._. Feelsbadman

 

I can agree to increasing cast speed. I always run a Natural Talent on any frame that needs quick reactions. Trinity being one of them because I want to quickly react to a situation rather then be nuked by enemies.

 

On the topic of blessing. I see a bunch of people saying that if you change the damage reduction that it removes its use in game.

 

The whole point of the damage reduction is to keep the players in harms way from being hurt more, and have it not benefit the players being hurt. If someone is about to go down they need the reduction much more than someone who has yet to be shot. This basically just keeps people from going GOdmode because one of their teammates messed up.

 

It gives a buffer but doesn't help the whole team. It also gives more incentive to not mess up and take a bucket of damage when you get a lucky blessing proc that gives decent damage reduction to everyone. 

 

Blessing instead of being spammed will become timed for when everyone is at low HP rather then one random tenno. If you want to use the damage reduction to its fully potental you can't just spam blessing.

 

On the topic of EV.

 

If trinity can gain any energy from EV then players will find some way to make it possible to gain infinite energy for Trinity. That is just the reality of the situation. I cannot think of the math that would allow the DE to balance EV to give Trinity energy without having some build exist that gives her infinite energy. Without making the skill under powered and unusable in team combat.

 

 

I kinda hyperbole a lot I wasn't trying to rant at all I just get excited when I right stuff like this and hyperbole. 

 

Also I didn't think of mentioning this but reducing duration wouldn't make the waves come out faster. Yes I realize if it did that would negate the change. 

 

I don't know how to make her more fun. Right now she is basically just a team support that is a God and makes the game boring. I don't see a way to change that role without a rework. Though I am not going to rework her. She is a fine frame and is chalanging to use if you don't use her to her full potental. Though since at her full potential she is OP she causes balance problems.

 

I am not here to rework her, just to make a couple simple changes that could be done in a hotfix to make her not OP. She needs a rework but I am not the guy to do it.

 

 

I think the problem is more on the energy system. You will still have infinite energy if Trinity can keep her own energy up. She can't just LMAO SPAM anymore she now has to keep a eye on her teammates.

 

This doesn't take away from her being the same role. This just makes it harder to reach the same levels, and impossible to be Godmode. I don't want to make her useless I just don't want her to be God mode and make frames like Oberon stupidly bad.

 

Oberon should be a good trade off for a trinity if the mission doesn't require constant healing. Those two should be changable. At the moment though they are not.

 

Oberon is like a worse trinity with a couple offensive abilities. So its OK for trin to be a better support but at the moment she is a God and Oberon is the dirt beneath her feet in comparison.

 

 

 

I agree that she should be able to solo. Though she is a support team frame, I shouldn't be able to take my Draco build to Ceres and be able to cake walk my way through it because of infinite energy and healing. That is MUCH different then a dedicated tank build.

 

On the topic of why no energy back for her. If she gets energy back then people will find a way to break the game. It will be endless. If you permenantly and cruely rip that out and remove that option from ever being capable then it fixes the problem. This is closing that option alltogether not just making it narrower and requiring more mods. That is a bandaid solution.

 

On the topic of Trin not being able to heal herself with bless. This is to keep her from Godmoding she needs to decide whether she should heal herself or to use blessing. She can't just heal herself whenever and this is further punished by the removal of damage reduction if she does try it. She can't make herself stronger. Again she is a team frame, she now has a way to heal herself, and a way to negate 95% of damage and increase energy orb droprate. She doesn't need a full heal and damage reduction ontop of that. 

 

She is a team frame she is stronger than Oberon at teamplay but not as strong at protecting and damaging enemies. I find that to be a good balance for Trinity. Though your ideas do make sense. 

 

I am fine with her being very strong. Though no game should be capable of becoming God mode. That isn't fun I want to play trinity at her full potential and feel danger and urgency at wave 40 of T4 Defense. Not be on my phone texting and pressing 2 every couple seconds and 4 whenever I glimpse at my teammates losing HP.

On that i can certainly agree she overshadows Oberon POWERFULLY but i think that something needs to be done about Oberon, i think Trinity serves as the healer she was intended to be and Oberon is a less healing battle medic but i do think Oberon needs more power to compete. Have you seen his drop chance on HP orbs? It's pathetic, and on that note: Who's bright idea was it to give him a healing power with TRAVEL TIME?? This nails the coffin on Trinity being better.    

[Feallike]

On that i can certainly agree she overshadows Oberon POWERFULLY but i think that something needs to be done about Oberon, i think Trinity serves as the healer she was intended to be and Oberon is a less healing battle medic but i do think Oberon needs more power to compete. Have you seen his drop chance on HP orbs? It's pathetic, and on that note: Who's bright idea was it to give him a healing power with TRAVEL TIME?? This nails the coffin on Trinity being better.    

 

Oberon defiantly needs a buff. Though unless they made him stupid he will forever be overshadowed by Trinity unless she gets a couple changes to make her less ridiculous.

 

Trinity and Oberon should be better than each-other at some situations. Oberon isn't good enough at damage and way to bad at healing to be debatable.

[(PSN)devack13]

Oberon defiantly needs a buff. Though unless they made him stupid he will forever be overshadowed by Trinity unless she gets a couple changes to make her less ridiculous.

 

Trinity and Oberon should be better than each-other at some situations. Oberon isn't good enough at damage and way to bad at healing to be debatable.

I believe we can agree on that. 

 

Edit: You know i was actually reading a post yesterday about making Blessing a like 70 meter or so range power, perhaps that's close to what your after on that front?

Edited January 17, 2016 by (PS4)devack13

[Feallike]

I believe we can agree on that. 

 

Edit: You know i was actually reading a post yesterday about making Blessing a like 70 meter or so range power, perhaps that's close to what your after on that front?

 

I don't think just decreasing its range would help it. That most certainly would help Oberon in the aspect of his health regeneration. Though Blessing is just to good at its job for just one of its aspects to be nerfed and then say OK done.

 

Trinity either needs a full on rework or needs a bunch of changes to her major abilities to bring her on par. (also these changes bring farming back to U10 effectiveness so that solves another problem, and also creates another one. :/)

Edited January 17, 2016 by Feallike

[VoidWraith]

 

I agree that she should be able to solo. Though she is a support team frame, I shouldn't be able to take my Draco build to Ceres and be able to cake walk my way through it because of infinite energy and healing. That is MUCH different then a dedicated tank build.

 

On the topic of why no energy back for her. If she gets energy back then people will find a way to break the game. It will be endless. If you permenantly and cruely rip that out and remove that option from ever being capable then it fixes the problem. This is closing that option alltogether not just making it narrower and requiring more mods. That is a bandaid solution.

 

On the topic of Trin not being able to heal herself with bless. This is to keep her from Godmoding she needs to decide whether she should heal herself or to use blessing. She can't just heal herself whenever and this is further punished by the removal of damage reduction if she does try it. She can't make herself stronger. Again she is a team frame, she now has a way to heal herself, and a way to negate 95% of damage and increase energy orb droprate. She doesn't need a full heal and damage reduction ontop of that. 

 

She is a team frame she is stronger than Oberon at teamplay but not as strong at protecting and damaging enemies. I find that to be a good balance for Trinity. Though your ideas do make sense. 

 

I am fine with her being very strong. Though no game should be capable of becoming God mode. That isn't fun I want to play trinity at her full potential and feel danger and urgency at wave 40 of T4 Defense. Not be on my phone texting and pressing 2 every couple seconds and 4 whenever I glimpse at my teammates losing HP.

 

 

At the moment there is no real active role in Healing. While she is highly claimed to be support, 3 of her skills require an enemy as a catalyst (as I have stated previously). Blessing is her only actual heal skill with energy as its cost. 

I wouldn't call her God mode. It's not like Valkyr, where her ult, is quite literally that, and it is a toggle-able God mode skill. 

The only issue is if there is a corpus scrambus that may/may not interfere, or a nullifier bubble.

 

I still think Energy Vampire is fine as a team energy restore skill, with the exception that the caster receive less energy back (the percentage can be debated), compared to those on the team. 

 

To be honest, I view the issue with energy is that it isn't like the old Stamina system. It should just restore naturally, while energy siphon should help increase the restore rate, and energy vampire should just be changed to something else. 

She is a team frame in the sense that her skills DoTs the enemy while restoring some important stats to the team (HP, energy, shields). It also mitigates most of the damage to any enemy she is linked to. 

 

The thing is lots of frames that a built for team play, can still solo. I few a lot of the squishy frames are built are team play, but because of their skills, it allows them to solo (augment skills and other min/max mods also further contribute to any frame's solo-ability).

 

Objectively, Trinity does need a re-work. Most of the frames do anyway. The fast pace-ness of this game and some of the skills of the frames, don't flow with the pace, with the exception to frames that are more suited to MD/D.

Edited January 17, 2016 by VoidWraith

[DelialFallen]

WoL could be more viable.

 

EV should give Trinity more Energy and less to allies, and less the further away they are from the epicenter.

 

Link is fine.

 

Blessing should differenciate between normal damage and self-damage, giving little to no damage resistance from self-damage.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Edit: 

 

Also, making Trinity's abilities punishing for herself to use (no energy from EV, no healing from Blessing) would make playing Trinity entirely too dependent on grouping up.  I can understand the frustration some players have with the meta, but proposing any Warframe's toolkit not benefit that Warframe is silly.  Equinox's 3 does it in Day form, but doesn't in Night form.

 

It's also important for those who advocate for balance to keep in mind their idea of fun is not shared by all.  I'd rather have Trinity be less viable to the group than being less viable to herself, even if it would hurt her desirability for group content.  Of course, I'm of those who think her fine as is and whom believe balancing ought to be directed at gameplay, enemies, difficulty, rather than focusing on Warframes, their abilities, and weapons.

 

Otherwise, there's no point in forma, catalysts and reactors, or spending money in this game on anything that isn't cosmetic.

Edited January 17, 2016 by DelialFallen

[Otenko]

Agreed on Oberon and Trinity having different perks for their heals.

 

The way it is now, it seems like Oberon's heal is something cheap and easy you can use out of combat (spamming 3 for the inital heal) or something that you can leave on in combat for the respectable HP regen which can turn into proc removal.

 

Whereas, Trinity's heal is more of something used in the thick of combat due to its cast time, range, and ability to heal more HP at once. This, on top of the DR. Although, the DR is so good in addition to Blessing being the fastest, longest-range heal, it's hard to justify using a different healing ability, which necessitates some redress of her ability.

 

On the topic of blessing. I see a bunch of people saying that if you change the damage reduction that it removes its use in game.

 

The whole point of the damage reduction is to keep the players in harms way from being hurt more, and have it not benefit the players being hurt. If someone is about to go down they need the reduction much more than someone who has yet to be shot. This basically just keeps people from going GOdmode because one of their teammates messed up.

 

It gives a buffer but doesn't help the whole team. It also gives more incentive to not mess up and take a bucket of damage when you get a lucky blessing proc that gives decent damage reduction to everyone. 

 

Blessing instead of being spammed will become timed for when everyone is at low HP rather then one random tenno. If you want to use the damage reduction to its fully potental you can't just spam blessing.

I can agree with Blessing being more of a safety net than as something players wait for so that they can play sloppily.

 

One one hand, the player that hasn't taken much damage now, may be really hurting in a few seconds. That's the nature of combat in this game, it seems like. It's a fairly short period of time where things can go from "under control" to being "swarmed."

 

I've already said this, but I think I left out some details earlier:

I could live with Blessing affecting players separately, but if that were the case then I'd say re-casting Blessing shouldn't "refresh" the damage reduction or the remaining duration. That is to say, if you recast Blessing with 45% DR and 7 seconds left (out of 12 let's say) and Trinity casts Blessing again, then you'll still have 45% DR with 7 seconds left (the duration should definitely not refresh if the DR stays). This can let the players that get their DR, have enough time to utilize the buff and modify their current situation accordingly.

 

Recasting Blessing also refreshes the DR that everyone gets. The "good" thing about Blessing giving everyone the same DR is that you don't need to take away that DR prematurely unless some teammate is seriously getting a pounding. For this reason, the DR seems more applicable in the current iteration of the ability. So essentially, everyone can use the full duration of Blessing and respond/plan accordingly.

 

If Blessing worked as it does right now, with only your change, then suddenly it becomes a very ephemeral safety net. If it affects each teammate individually then paying attention to everyone's health bars can be a hindrance of sorts. As an example,  say you have Teammate 1 and Teammate 2 both with 100 HP; just some normal dudes playing the game.  Teammate 1 and Teammate 2 are both playing and Teammate 1 gets down to 50 HP then receives a Blessing and is now at full health. Now Teammate 1 has, 50% DR while Teammate 2 is at full health and gets no DR. But then, 5 seconds later, Teammate 2 makes a "tactical mistake" and gets hit with a Bombard rocket and is down to 30 HP. If you cast Blessing again, Teammate 2 will have 70% DR and Teammate 1 will have 0% DR.

 

This essentially has you sweeping Teammate 1's buff out from under his feet. Maybe he was planning on tackling a few enemies while the DR was still on him, then retreating to a safe distance/area when there was 2 seconds of Blessing left. Now, Teammate 1 might be stuck in a group of enemies with 0% DR just because it was suddenly removed from him. At this point, he'll be downed unless Trinity can cast Blessing on him in time, which would remove Teammate 2's Blessing DR, which essentially repeats the cycle.

 

Because of all of that, Blessing suddenly becomes a lot clunkier to work with, because you're using a team-heal that gains benefits from paying attention to specific teammates and can potentially lose benefits from casting it at the wrong time (when a player is at full health).

 

Basically to summarize the important parts:

If Blessing should affect everyone differently, then re-casting Blessing should not refresh DR or duration if the new cast of Blessing would issue a lower % DR buff. This would result in allies that receive 50% DR to plan across its duration accordingly and not have to worry if Trinity is paying attention to her less-skilled allies.

 

Hopefully that all makes sense. I can respect a Blessing issuing DR individually, but I think the ability has to be tweaked slightly for it to jive with the ability.

 

EDIT: Made a pronoun change at the top.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Otenko