[Pvp] Assault Rifles Needs Immediate Nerf.

[Feyangol]

An easy to use weapon should not perform this good.

It doesn't perform "this good" like Noctus said.

Autorifles are weak on fast moving players, but strong when your movement is interrupted or you generally move slow.

[-InV-igo95862]

I have success with sniper rifles then I do with autos.

 

If you complain about autos, you haven't seen Sybaris yet.

[Lord_Noctus]

I got killed from across the map with a Prisma grakata once, went to bed and cried.

 

WATCH AT 7:30

video is by spectralx he change his name alot u gotta know

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by Lord_Noctus

[BoyTitan]

If we had more mobility assault rifles would not be a problem

Edited January 17, 2016 by BoyTitan

[Phasedragon]

You can nerf AR's when the netcode isn't complete garbage. Until then, it's one of the few things you can rely on that's actually somewhat functional when trying to hit people when they're dropping packets like mad (seriously, it's like some people are connecting from the moon). On a side note, I can't help but wonder if the peer-to-peer code is really that bad, or if people are intentionally using net limiters.

 

I think you need a little perspective. You can limit your ping in options, and judging by limiting to 100, being unable to find a match, then limiting to 200, and actually having a decent game, I would say that the netcode is actually fantastic. Any other competitive game with dedicated servers, let's say tf2 or cs:go is completely unplayable at 150-200 ping; your character would be bouncing around everywhere, enemies would be everywhere, and you'd be unable to get anywhere without the server thinking you're running directly into a wall.

Not saying lag isn't an issue, but when it comes to p2p hosting, it really depends on the players. Try limiting your ping or changing your region if it's set somewhere you aren't.

[ANGELVIXEN]

If easy to use auto weapons are nerfed, what will happen to the average player? will this just mean that only vets will play and curb stomp anyone that doesn't have a decent to high skill ratio? of course vets can curb stomp the lower skilled players, but nerfing things that doesn't require that much skill to use doesn't seem to add any longevity to conclave also making said average player having to use something they may not like to even hope to stand a chance against them (high skill use weapons).

That could be a match making problem, but there isn't a lot of people that play conclave right now, all I see this end up causing is kicking the massive weakpoint of a average or perhaps not that good player and just makes them end up quitting conclave.

[rockscl]

intead of just nerfing autos, DE should also make some mechanical mods like they did for burst and semi auto rifles, like that the max dps is tied to spraying less and aiming more, also gorgon and soma need to have their own category, those arent assault rifles, but warframe has no LMG class

Edited January 17, 2016 by rockscl

[Shin]

intead of just nerfing autos, DE should also make some mechanical mods like they did for burst and semi auto rifles, like that the max dps is tied to spraying less and aiming more, also gorgon and soma need to have their own category, those arent assault rifles, but warframe has no LMG class

Anything that can make them fun to use and not broken at the same time really.

[ANGELVIXEN]

Perhaps there could be a mod for autos that increases their damage by 100% within a certain range, lets say, 25m, and halve every autos dmg to compensate, this should make it that snipers and other long range weapons stay excelled at range while while the autos and braton's become ineffective due to range distance.

It is a bandaid mod suggestion, but we already have a lot of it.

It does bring it's own problems though, as it makes the auto's useless if said player doesn't have it, So perhaps a lower multiplier, like 50% and nerfing the dmg of a auto by 30%, I want to keep the dmg ratio 1:1 if possible. but this is a suggestion.

More Edits: I think 50% dmg / 30% nerf is a good number, with the braton prime for example, it only does 21 dmg, meaning, it's not that effective if you snipe with it, but it's not that useless either, and if you are in range, it does 31.5 dmg, It's only a slight bonus compared to it's current dps (30), but it rewards the player for being close range to said person if they aren't running away or keeping up with said player.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Bob300

[FelisImpurrator]

If easy to use auto weapons are nerfed, what will happen to the average player? will this just mean that only vets will play and curb stomp anyone that doesn't have a decent to high skill ratio? of course vets can curb stomp the lower skilled players, but nerfing things that doesn't require that much skill to use doesn't seem to add any longevity to conclave also making said average player having to use something they may not like to even hope to stand a chance against them (high skill use weapons).

That could be a match making problem, but there isn't a lot of people that play conclave right now, all I see this end up causing is kicking the massive weakpoint of a average or perhaps not that good player and just makes them end up quitting conclave.

The thing is, these weapons aren't especially good against veterans. All they're good at is allowing newbies to crush other newbies of the same skill level with far more ease.

 

I'm generally kind of bad (casual player to the hilt), but I play with semi-auto rifles because I like the feel of them more... but the way things are now, that just means I get shredded by the seven Soma pileup when literally everyone else is running it and the entire match is ten straight minutes of BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT, because I haven't mastered PVP mobilityand likely won't for a long, long time.

[ANGELVIXEN]

I believe autos can be viable against veterans, as I've been using them against notable players such as pytha and igo and such, if it gets nerfed too hard, then both sides of the spectrum get hurt, the player that likes to use it cause of ease of use, and the ones who invest into it and figure out how to master them.

 

The Mk-1 Braton for example, a easy to use entry weapon for beginners that I used until it's major nerf, is extremely rare to see except for M0-2 players that like to try out conclave before pve, It wasn't a common setup that other players used still despite the ease of use back then, and ever since it's nerf, I almost never see it now due to it's insane lack of damage.

 

Not only that, it's the weakest out of all the bratons now.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Bob300

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Going to address some things.

 

I think autos would benefit if there was a effective range cap. I think the infinite range on normal autos is honestly odd, that or decrease some fire rate and clip size on the more high mag weapons.

 

As for LMGs make the spool time, actually spool.

 

You can also say what you want, sure a fast mobile player will be able to avoid the bullets and decrease chances of getting hit im not disagreeing with you there. But thats not the question at hand here, in that instance we can say that sawed off shotguns in gears are okay because the best bouncers can avoid them easily.

 

The issue here is how much power that these weapons give to players. Just today I played like 15-20 games, out of all of those games at least half of them had a 1st place gorgon user/ any auto user. The thing gives lower average - average players a huge advantage. You see people who get these insane scores, people you never see in conclave before like 27-2 and they all had one thing in common the gorgon.

 

Needless to say, its not a bad thing that the autos class is the easiest to use, but being able to constantly fire at an opponent bears a huge advantage as well especially on this game. Just based on observation, the thing gives players way too much power to the player.

 

Noctus you also state that shooting moving players is much harder with an auto. And i have to disagree with you on that. Sure you have to keep track of your target, but you dont have to reload as often, you can keep consistent damage on your opponent, you have the upper hand in CQC and can pick off targets easily at long ranges. Lets say you jump up and do a bit of air time to line up a shot, you will do a little less if not the same amount of damage with an auto than any other weapon type in addition you can keep damaging him easily without fearing for his escape as much.

 

I dont mind the CQC advantage, but i think the DPS on some of the more prominent Autos needs to go down by at least 5-10% in addition or we decrease effective range and mag size.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Eureka.seveN

[Phasedragon]

Assault rifles definitely need fixing. They're basically all-around weapons, but instead of being decent all around, they're just great at everything. Let's take braton p for example:

 

30 damage, 9.5 firerate, 75 magazine.

 

It has enough magazine to:

     spray into a large group for nearly 8 seconds

     have no problem with missing a few shots, either from lag or from high-skill play

     be burst fired forever before reloading

 

It has enough burst DPS to kill in under a second

 

It has enough sustained DPS to kill 8 people in 8 seconds

 

It's accurate enough and with such little recoil to kill across the map

 

 

All in all, it's so good in nearly any situation, super easy to use at low-skill play, has fantastic damage for high-skill play, and enough magazine to kill either multiple times without reloading. it's just messed up. Needs a fix.

 

When it comes to the other autos, they're all outshined in some way by the braton p, but most are still very powerful.

Braton is about the same, but almost half the magazine

mk1-braton is complete trash? Less damage, less firerate, about half the dps with less magazine? Wow.

Karak wraith is a bit higher DPS, but much lower accuracy

Karak is almost a direct downgrade from it's wraith, and almost not worth mentioning

Edited January 18, 2016 by PhaseShifted

[(PSN)Double991]

Auto rifles are a staple of every shooter ever made.People will use them regardless of what you do to them.

 

The Bratons have been nerfed multiple times now ( I think ). If you're still getting killed by them, then you'd be raging even harder before.

 

I respectfully disagree to further nerfs.

[Phasedragon]

Auto rifles are a staple of every shooter ever made.People will use them regardless of what you do to them.

 

The Bratons have been nerfed multiple times now ( I think ). If you're still getting killed by them, then you'd be raging even harder before.

 

I respectfully disagree to further nerfs.

 

Staple, yes. Overall good in any situation, yes. Able to dominate in every situation? No. Still needs a nerf.

[(PSN)Double991]

The problem might have to do with these changes :

 

Update 18.1.0

• Primary and Secondary weapon damage has been adjusted to match new Conclave EHP values.
• Automatic weapons and shotguns now have a 1.2x damage modifier for headshots in Conclave.
• Burst and semi-automatic weapons now have a 1.5x damage modifier for headshots in Conclave.

Update 18.2.0

 

• Increased the damage of most Primary weapons in Conclave.

As far as I know, the headshot multiplier on PS4 is 2x right now for autos. Bringing that down to 1.2x is a pretty big nerf but you also have EHP changes and the damage overall was buffed. So at a glance, if you're still getting killed to the point of wanting them nerfed, it looks like they took away the skill factor in getting heashots and just made it easier to kill people with bodyshots.

 

If that's true then I agree. Nerf the damage back down and bring the headshot multiplier back up.

[Phasedragon]

The problem might have to do with these changes :

 

Update 18.1.0

• Primary and Secondary weapon damage has been adjusted to match new Conclave EHP values.
• Automatic weapons and shotguns now have a 1.2x damage modifier for headshots in Conclave.
• Burst and semi-automatic weapons now have a 1.5x damage modifier for headshots in Conclave.

Update 18.2.0

 

• Increased the damage of most Primary weapons in Conclave.

As far as I know, the headshot multiplier on PS4 is 2x right now for autos. Bringing that down to 1.2x is a pretty big nerf but you also have EHP changes and the damage overall was buffed. So at a glance, if you're still getting killed to the point of wanting them nerfed, it looks like they took away the skill factor in getting heashots and just made it easier to kill people with bodyshots.

 

If that's true then I agree. Nerf the damage back down and bring the headshot multiplier back up.

 

Indeed, there is always a degree of consoles being several updates behind. Really hard to tell where everybody's coming from when you've never experienced what they're talking about or things have changed completely several times since then.

[Lord_Noctus]

i think most people commenting on this thread dont play automatics. we dont have a objective thread here.

 

however the only thing i noticed is that soma feels sort of strong lately (great accuracy very fast spool) also the braton p (big clip, accurate, nice dmg i think becouse slash got more viable) is good but both not to an extend that they need nerf. other weapons in the automatic family suffer by low clipsize accuracy and big spools that will fck u up while chasing ppl.....

 

and i personally think that at the moment all weapons are kind of balanced in use but as i said i play in europe region. the only thing that is a bit overused are the latrons. maybe add a similar mod to latrons like to snipers instead of doubletap which have no negative effect ?

Edited January 18, 2016 by Lord_Noctus

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

i think most people commenting on this thread dont play automatics. we dont have a objective thread here.

True, there is a mix of both. But its good to get the perspective of both the giving and receiving ends. Or else we are not looking at this situation holistically. 

 

 

-snip-

Im guessing from the top of the site you are on 18.0.8. The game really changed in 18.2/18.3 so theres that to consider. The autos are nothing like when 18 shipped day one.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Eureka.seveN

[Shin]

-snip

Before those changes, autos were in a kinda good place. None of them except the Gorgons outshined the other. Also that Headshot multiplier change was a good start but still didnt fix the problem. On Frames like Banshee, Loki etc you're going to have near instantenous kills because of that weapons extremely forgiving and easy to use nature and with the Headshot multipliers that TTK drops down further. 

 

An assault rifle doesnt need a huge clip, high fire rate and headshot multipliers and Hitscan stat to be powerful. This just makes it a cheese machine.

 

 

Auto rifles are a staple of every shooter ever made.People will use them regardless of what you do to them.

 

The Bratons have been nerfed multiple times now ( I think ). If you're still getting killed by them, then you'd be raging even harder before.

 

I respectfully disagree to further nerfs.

In any other game, assault rifles are nowhere near this powerful. And to be honest if in a match everyone is using Braton Primes and Soma Primes, you see why this is broken. I've used these weapons before, Both braton prime and Soma, just yesterday i used Soma prime and god, that thing is absurd. Im not calling for nerfs before i use them. 

 

And strangely i havent seen anyone using gorgons so i will have to test them aswell but the last time i checked they were absurd aswell.

 

Overall these weapons requires extremely low skill ceiling and it is just bad for Conclaves, a weapon should not have the advantage of having no downsides or being effective in every situation.

 

A new player seeing everyone using assault rifles will try to use them and this circle will continue. We should encourage people to use different weapons, not just the cheese weapons.

[Lord_Noctus]

A new player seeing everyone using assault rifles will try to use them and this circle will continue. We should encourage people to use different weapons, not just the cheese weapons.

im repeating myself but i think the use of weapons is balanced with boltor and latron beeing lately on top of it

[Shin]

im repeating myself but i think the use of weapons is balanced with boltor and latron beeing lately on top of it

Im not talking about latron, they are in need of balancing aswell but the point of this topic was Assault rifles. Mainly Braton Prime and Soma prime which needs immediate nerf. Im not asking you to agree with me anyway.

[Lord_Noctus]

Im not talking about latron, they are in need of balancing aswell but the point of this topic was Assault rifles. Mainly Braton Prime and Soma prime which needs immediate nerf. Im not asking you to agree with me anyway.

look i had the idea of since slash dmg is more viable now that those 2 weapons got better. BUT since igo the one guy that never use an automatic gun says its not OP. it must be an honest well thought out opinion of him on which i can trust since he gains nothing from that these guns not getting nerfed.

 

i personally as a loki/mirage +mobility player never have probs with automatics the only thing that gives me headache are daikyus. soma prime dont seem as problematic for me but braton prime is strong yes but not strong enough for a nerf. ill do further testing on braton prime now and see if its rly that strong.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Lord_Noctus

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

BUT since igo the one guy that never use an automatic gun says its not OP.

But isint that less credible? If people who have not tried the auto are saying its not op, that's just as much of a discredit as if they said it was op. Because they have not experienced it. Since we can't get a good sample since most of us here are using more skillful weapons.

I personally have attempted to use them. I would go half of the game with my favorite weapon and with an auto. And I noticed a huge spike in performance on my end. I knew I had to work a lot less for a kill. And its not like I was playing with recruits they were no pros but they were geared and were average jumpers.

Even at that if an automatic rilfe can reaches the same range as a single fire why use the single fire? Autos aren't broken but are flawed in some areas by design.

Also this is never a question of personal gain.I'm sure shin has good intentions. Most of us are here because we care about the future of this game. Making it seem that igo is the only one who won't gain anything fromv nerfing autos is implying that everyone else here is only here for personal gain.

Please choose your words wisely. Because your statement is inching towards a straw man fallacy that implies that we are sniving lunatics that only demand nerfs for our own needs. Which in turn devalues your statement and your claim.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Eureka.seveN

[sappinmahsentry]

What we see here, is many, many people defending OP "precision" weapons. They do this because they just can't stand anything having any competition other than their OP ones. So nerf everything, and buff the "precision" weapons so we can be more OP.

No, we shouldn't nerf anything but your "precision" weapons. DE, hear me out or play your game. When a guy who hasn't used one of these weapons before can get 25/5 in their first match, that's a bad thing.

Edited January 18, 2016 by sappinmahsentry