Help Me List Ways To Make Enemies Harder Without Making Them Bullet Sponges...

[Feallike]

Level 50+ Infested:

 

Regular units: If damaged but not killed units will attempt to merge themselves together. If successful they will become a Juggernaut. This only happens if you debuff the infested without killing them. AKA A anti CC effect. Though Lotus/tenno will warn you when it starts to happen.

 

Level 50+ Jumpers: If jumped on they will lock you into a animation where your stuck on the ground basically helpless you will have to spam space for a bit to get out.

 

Level 50+ Infested will now eat their own corpses, using canabilism will level the infested up by 3 and restore all HP. Their is a 2 second infested devouring animation before its finished so you have plenty of time to kill it. Though if your dumb enough to leave a infested behind with a bunch of dead friends you might be coming back to a pretty strong infested. The infested will be crouched down trying to blend in with corpses during this animation. In attempts to sneak past the player and REKT them later.

 

Level 50+ they will knock out the ships light reducing lighting to very dark. Allowing them to flank you easily with wall climbs.

 

Level 50+ Anctients can now merge with eachother to combine their effects. Healers can merge with toxics and so on.

 

Anctient also start being stealthier and hang on walls now instead directly running at the Tenno like regular infested. 

 

Also on any mission depending on the tileset you might see a Greneer or Corpus heavy that has been infected. These have 2x the HP, but way worse accuracy. They are extremely brutal and will rush you firing whatever at you in fast volleys. In attempts to terrify the player. These are results of a not totally infested Corpus/Greneer. (This is level 20 infested missions)

 

 

Also all infested now are 2x as fast when aggroed. (Level 50+ infested) Edit going more into this: I mean when the infested are alerted they will be a set speed regular speed. Though when they see a Tenno and or Take damage they will double their speed in attempts to rush the Tenno before they can react. 

 

This only happens when they see the Tenno so infested on the other side of the map will not get that effect if mr. runner over yonder does.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Feallike

[(PSN)wonderwoman814]

And can you imagine playing on an infested ship and BOOOM, the wall splits open and a tentacle starts whipping your naughty bits warframe?

OH MY GOT IT WILL GIVE EMAIL THAT HILL FACTOR! Like even the damn walls can kill you oh my god this thread is coming up with fantastic ideas!

Level 50+ Infested:

 

Regular units: If damaged but not killed units will attempt to merge themselves together. If successful they will become a Juggernaut. This only happens if you debuff the infested without killing them. AKA A anti CC effect. Though Lotus/tenno will warn you when it starts to happen.

 

Level 50+ Jumpers: If jumped on they will lock you into a animation where your stuck on the ground basically helpless you will have to spam space for a bit to get out.

 

Level 50+ Infested will now eat their own corpses, using canabilism will level the infested up by 3 and restore all HP. Their is a 4 second infested devouring animation before its finished so you have plenty of time to kill it. Though if your dumb enough to leave a infested behind with a bunch of dead friends you might be coming back to a pretty strong infested.

 

Level 50+ they will knock out the ships light reducing lighting to very dark. Allowing them to flank you easily with wall climbs.

 

Level 50+ Anctients can now merge with eachother to double their own effects and add new ones. Healers can merge with toxics and so on.

 

Anctient also start being stealthier and hang on walls now instead directly running at the Tenno like regular infested. 

 

Also on any mission depending on the tileset you might see a Greneer or Corpus heavy that has been infected. These have 2x the HP, but way worse accuracy. They are extremely brutal and will rush you firing whatever at you in fast volleys. In attempts to terrify the player. These are results of a not totally infested Corpus/Greneer. 

 

 

Also all infested now are 2x as fast when aggroed.

dude people will attack just for saying double the effect of ancients lol

[Feallike]

OH MY GOT IT WILL GIVE EMAIL THAT HILL FACTOR! Like even the damn walls can kill you oh my god this thread is coming up with fantastic ideas!

dude people will attack just for saying double the effect of ancients lol

Sorry lol my grammar went south for the winter. I meant that Healers and Toxics will merge having their effects combined. I have no idea why I said double their effects...

Edited January 19, 2016 by Feallike

[CrazyCatLad]

Good point, therein lies the real problem.

But at the end of the day, a butcher that throws a cleaver at you while sprinting faster than they do now, will still be harder than the current version.

[(PSN)wonderwoman814]

Sorry lol my grammar went south for the winter. I meant that Healers and Toxics will merge having their effects combined. I have no idea why I said double their effects...

oh ok. I'm noticing people want infested to be creepy more horrifying. DE really should look into that.

[Feallike]

Idea: How about the DE take the shields the Greneer have and make them block abilities? Change the greneer's AI so that they put up a shield after the player uses a ability imput. You would just litterally have to shoot that small little shield down and then use your ability to hit them. Though if you timed it bad or tried to radial nuke they would just set up a bunch of shields and camp until your done. 

 

The Greneer cannot shoot while shielding, they litterally just crouch under. You could even add funny dialogue with scared greneer praying or calling for the momma when shielding. That could go along with them throwing arc traps or other traps for the Tenno.

 

Maybe at higher levels we start using the Grustrag 3 trap with regular units when a Tenno is downed. Which will temp not allow them to use abilities or slow them down greatly. Until shot off or until it wears off. More incentive to not go down.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Feallike

[RagingGrizzly]

Wasn't there already a massive post like this?

[Lost_Cartographer]

Wasn't there already a massive post like this?

Are you referring to this thread?  People don't tend to search past page 1 of thread selection.

 

Worse, people are more apt to pile into a flame war thread and argue about how things could get better or how things are fine the way they are.  Of course, part of that is because most people aren't all that creative, or too shy to put their ideas out to the public for criticism, because criticism can be pretty demoralizing.  Soul crushingly so.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Littleman88

[(PSN)Dynamic_Douche]

I love that idea

As do I. You know I feel like infested maps should have a bit of a horror vibe to them. If anything else an eerie one. Wall crawling is an excellent idea. Perhaps the infested could also latch on to your warframe like resident evil style and you have to press certain prompts to get them off of you. Anyway onto my ideas for each faction:

 

Grineer:

 

Prosecutors, that name should strike a oh $%@# moment IMO. However, these guys are just flunkies who don't hold a candle to bombards in terms of difficulty to subdue. I think prosecutors should have abilities like the warframes do. Maybe give them a slash dash 1.0 (before excalibur rework). Also maybe a reflection ability where prosecutors take an immobile stance temporarily and if you use an ability on them then they reflect it right back at you. 

 

Corpus: 

 

Since corpus seem to be all about cutting edge technology, maybe one of their soldiers should have optic camouflage, not as good as Loki's so the atmosphere around them should shimmer thus not making them too hard to find but still difficult to spot. Though these enemies would be very squishy, they would be nimble (not like those grineer shamans though) and strike quickly. 

[CrazyCatLad]

Wasn't there already a massive post like this?

 

 

Are you referring to this thread?  People don't tend to search past page 1 of thread selection.

 

Worse, people are more apt to pile into a flame war thread and argue about how things could get better or how things are fine the way they are.  Of course, part of that is because most people aren't all that creative, or too shy to put their ideas out to the public for criticism, because criticism can be pretty demoralizing.  Soul crushingly so.

 

My thread is a bit different though the same gist of being fed up with Bullet Sponges as a way to make things 'harder'.  I wanted the community to help me list changes to equipment, maps and behavior that would increase difficulty.  

 

That said, it's not like a posted a "Excalibur Umbra, when?? WHEN DE? My wallet is ready!" thread like everyone does every third hour.

[sappinmahsentry]

Level 50+ Infested:

 

Regular units: If damaged but not killed units will attempt to merge themselves together. If successful they will become a Juggernaut. This only happens if you debuff the infested without killing them. AKA A anti CC effect. Though Lotus/tenno will warn you when it starts to happen.

 

Level 50+ Jumpers: If jumped on they will lock you into a animation where your stuck on the ground basically helpless you will have to spam space for a bit to get out.

 

Level 50+ Infested will now eat their own corpses, using canabilism will level the infested up by 3 and restore all HP. Their is a 2 second infested devouring animation before its finished so you have plenty of time to kill it. Though if your dumb enough to leave a infested behind with a bunch of dead friends you might be coming back to a pretty strong infested. The infested will be crouched down trying to blend in with corpses during this animation. In attempts to sneak past the player and REKT them later.

 

Level 50+ they will knock out the ships light reducing lighting to very dark. Allowing them to flank you easily with wall climbs.

 

Level 50+ Anctients can now merge with eachother to combine their effects. Healers can merge with toxics and so on.

 

Anctient also start being stealthier and hang on walls now instead directly running at the Tenno like regular infested. 

 

Also on any mission depending on the tileset you might see a Greneer or Corpus heavy that has been infected. These have 2x the HP, but way worse accuracy. They are extremely brutal and will rush you firing whatever at you in fast volleys. In attempts to terrify the player. These are results of a not totally infested Corpus/Greneer. (This is level 20 infested missions)

 

 

Also all infested now are 2x as fast when aggroed. (Level 50+ infested) Edit going more into this: I mean when the infested are alerted they will be a set speed regular speed. Though when they see a Tenno and or Take damage they will double their speed in attempts to rush the Tenno before they can react. 

 

This only happens when they see the Tenno so infested on the other side of the map will not get that effect if mr. runner over yonder does.

As if Infested weren't aggravating enough.

[Insizer]

Manic Sentient

Edited January 20, 2016 by Insizer

[Thebel]

Infested Limbo with a troll ai.

Infested Loki that can ID people for certain amount of time.

Basically more infested frames.

[CrazyCatLad]

Manic Sentient

 

Infested Limbo with a troll ai.

Infested Loki that can ID people for certain amount of time.

Basically more infested frames.

 

Okay calm down there Satan and Satan Jr.

[Thebel]

Okay calm down there Satan and Satan Jr.

It would be so great though, you'd have the Limbo banishing people in and out picking your squad off one by one unless you have a Limbo to counter.

The loki would go invisible, cast decoy that acts like an actual ai, counter any aoe power with ID killing your teammates with your own powers.

Infested Valk has the old duration hysteria so she'll take damage but be tanky as hell and if she hits you she's healing.

God that would be so great, I'd be so miserable.

[H.Katsura_999]

Looks good on paper, but when we spam 4, everything just dies.

 

It would be nice to encounter enemies that are interesting or unique but truth be told we are so OP no swarm of enemies can handle us.

 

Anyway back to topic.

 

If copus have nullifiers, grineer and infested should get something that can negate Warframe powers, or match it.

 

Grineers can have a flying drone, like we have sentinels, that disrupts radar, and warframe powers from a distance, it also grants a bubble of protection to the Grineer user and itself from AOE abilities like Rhino stomp so the unit doesn't die before it can get close.

Any active abilities like Iron skin or Shatter Shield will quickly be dispelled via electrocution from the drone (yes, it will zap your powers away, but only if its gets close, the radar jamming is your indication that you''ll soon be dead).

Kill the Grineer user and it will die-off too. 

 

Having one is a nuisance for the tenno but in numbers it will ruin their day.

 

The infested can have infested Warframes. Seeing Warframe are just empty puppets, tennocyte virus can infect it and control it. Imagine it as fallen warframes consumed by the infested wielding infested weaponry. Much more agile and deadly, a single one can easily overwhelm you if you're not quick on your feet. example, an infested Valkyr or Limbo = rage quit.

Edited January 21, 2016 by H.Katsura_999

[fakeBOSHI]

How about sneaky infested. Dim lighting, flashlight style.

Ex. Chargers bury in the ground and wait for you to get close before unburrowing and ambushing you.

Larger infested like ancients would blend in with walls or ceilings and get the drop on you.

[CrazyCatLad]

Looks good on paper, but when we spam 4, everything just dies.

 

It would be nice to encounter enemies that are interesting or unique but truth be told we are so OP no swarm of enemies can handle us.

 

Anyway back to topic.

 

If corpus have nullifiers, grineer and infested should get something that can negate Warframe powers, or match it.

 

Grineers can have a flying drone, like we have sentinels, that disrupts radar, and warframe powers from a distance, it also grants a bubble of protection to the Grineer user and itself from AOE abilities like Rhino stomp so the unit doesn't die before it can get close.

Any active abilities like Iron skin or Shatter Shield will quickly be dispelled via electrocution from the drone (yes, it will zap your powers away, but only if its gets close, the radar jamming is your indication that you''ll soon be dead).

Kill the Grineer user and it will die-off too. 

 

Having one is a nuisance for the tenno but in numbers it will ruin their day.

 

The infested can have infested Warframes. Seeing Warframe are just empty puppets, tennocyte virus can infect it and control it. Imagine it as fallen warframes consumed by the infested wielding infested weaponry. Much more agile and deadly, a single one can easily overwhelm you if you're not quick on your feet. example, an infested Valkyr or Limbo = rage quit.

I once suggested Grineer/Infested get some sort of nullifier and was met with harsh disagreements.  I still think certain abilities should damage the bubble (even if at 25% power) and Focus chest beams should too.

 

Oh and also, yes, we're mobile Nuclear Bombs but I'm sure plenty of us don't spam 4. I enjoy gun and swordplay too and use 4 when there's a crowd or in a panic. Improvements to the enemies that doesn't buff their armor endlessly will undoubtedly make it more difficult to cheese everything to death.

 

How about sneaky infested. Dim lighting, flashlight style.

Ex. Chargers bury in the ground and wait for you to get close before unburrowing and ambushing you.

Larger infested like ancients would blend in with walls or ceilings and get the drop on you.

Lurkers from Starcraft <3

Edited January 21, 2016 by Lanieu

[CY13ERPUNK]

+9999 OP

[MirageKnight]

How about sneaky infested. Dim lighting, flashlight style.

Ex. Chargers bury in the ground and wait for you to get close before unburrowing and ambushing you.

Larger infested like ancients would blend in with walls or ceilings and get the drop on you.

 

I'm thinking of something like Genestealers from Warhammer 40K - but with the ability to 'cloak' themselves in low-light conditions / shadows, pouncing out from air ducts / vents and recesses.

 

Would also explain why Cavats will be able to 'cloak' themselves as well.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

Scaling isn't exactly too bad its just scaling in everything that is horrible

 

Along with other suggestions of better AI and Strategy

Scaling is Ok but needs to make sense for each unit and be fair

 

All units should receive a small increase in every stat

Sniper units get a high increase in damage

Tanks/Heavy's get a moderate increase in Strength and Armor

etc etc

 

Basically Tanks get tankier and Glass cannons stay glass cannons

Trash mobs stay trash mobs

and everything isn't a 1 shotting Tanky A.F. killing machine

 

of course these changes would imply our own power is brought in line

[CrazyCatLad]

Scaling isn't exactly too bad its just scaling in everything that is horrible

 

Along with other suggestions of better AI and Strategy

Scaling is Ok but needs to make sense for each unit and be fair

 

All units should receive a small increase in every stat

Sniper units get a high increase in damage

Tanks/Heavy's get a moderate increase in Strength and Armor

etc etc

 

Basically Tanks get tankier and Glass cannons stay glass cannons

Trash mobs stay trash mobs

and everything isn't a 1 shotting Tanky A.F. killing machine

 

of course these changes would imply our own power is brought in line

Tenno power creep in this game is a real issue and I have spoken out about it constantly.

 

Reskinning everything into direct upgrades is getting very old.

 

Primed Mods should never have existed.  

[(PSN)VariantX7]

What do you guys think of 2 more versions of the modular corpus units?  One of which absorbs most tenno powers (excluding the ones that require physical contact or are made of a physical object like rhino charge, slash dash, ivara's navigator/ artemis bow, ash's blade storm, sayrn's toxic lash, valkyr's histertia and atlas' landslide) and then converts the energy into shields for nearby corpus units, granting them overshields, and the other would convert energy into a temporary damage boost for nearby units. Theres also an existing unit that blocks all damage, but I think that unit sucks compared to the others and it should also be able to deploy barriers like volt's shield across the  battlefield like almost every grineer can drop blunts all over the place to make him a better support unit for the corpus faction.

[fakeBOSHI]

What do you guys think of 2 more versions of the modular corpus units? One of which absorbs most tenno powers (excluding the ones that require physical contact or are made of a physical object like rhino charge, slash dash, ivara's navigator/ artemis bow, ash's blade storm, sayrn's toxic lash, valkyr's histertia and atlas' landslide) and then converts the energy into shields for nearby corpus units, granting them overshields, and the other would convert energy into a temporary damage boost for nearby units. Theres also an existing unit that blocks all damage, but I think that unit sucks compared to the others and it should also be able to deploy barriers like volt's shield across the battlefield like almost every grineer can drop blunts all over the place to make him a better support unit for the corpus faction.

I like the absorb idea, but I would modify it. Instead of tanker enemies, the absorbed abilities could be reflected to players for a shortend duration. In the existing framework, absorbed cc abilities will proc a radiation effect and accuracy debuff, while damage abilities proc a bleed and depleting shields effect.

Basically a nullifier 2.0. Instead of taking abilities away, it encourages players to be cautious when spamming, and spend mod points on survival mods.

Instead of a walking bubble, the effect should be a deployable and an aoe. This gives players time to identify the threat, and either eliminate the enemy deploying it, destroy the deployable, or run.

[CrazyCatLad]

I like the absorb idea, but I would modify it. Instead of tanker enemies, the absorbed abilities could be reflected to players for a shortend duration. In the existing framework, absorbed cc abilities will proc a radiation effect and accuracy debuff, while damage abilities proc a bleed and depleting shields effect.

Basically a nullifier 2.0. Instead of taking abilities away, it encourages players to be cautious when spamming, and spend mod points on survival mods.

Instead of a walking bubble, the effect should be a deployable and an aoe. This gives players time to identify the threat, and either eliminate the enemy deploying it, destroy the deployable, or run.

Stationary nullifier-esque shields (like a Volt shield) could be good in theory.