Kai_Shiba Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) right, but when you get there, there was at least a cluster of sites waiting for you and you could do them all at once. the only way you would have to cross the map is if all the sites happened to spawn near each other AND across the map. one of the changes in the new patch is that sites don't spawn near each other, so if we didn't have to hit the sites in order, there would always be some nearer to you, so you could work your way gradually to the farther ones I believe you read the patch notes wrong.Areas with multiple Dig Sites will be more difficult to defend, should players decide to activate more than one Site at a time. Edit: I've been ninja'd By taiiat, I am in ruins Edited January 23, 2016 by KJRenz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmsilver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I believe you read the patch notes wrong. I didn't write that post purely from the patch notes. I guess my missions had spawn issues? I barely saw any enemies. in the two excavations I ran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ograzzt Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I believe you read the patch notes wrong. Areas with multiple Dig Sites will be more difficult to defend, should players decide to activate more than one Site at a time. Edit: I've been ninja'd By taiiat, I am in ruins I don't think you tried excavation missions after update. Same thing for taiiat. I know, forum is the endgame in Warframe, but please go and try it yourself before making post that is based on patchnotes and not on your player experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai_Shiba Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I don't think you tried excavation missions after update. Same thing for taiiat. I know, forum is the endgame in Warframe, but please go and try it yourself before making post that is based on patchnotes and not on your player experience. I did, I do excavations everyday. I see little to no difference other than me trying to push for more difficulty if I wanted to. I play push it to the limit, or smooth jazz with Frost. Either way, I tested it and it's the same thing minus a few little tiny things here and there. (Starting power for excavators) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmsilver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 - you can edit Thread Titles by opening the Advanced Editor on a thread leading post. thank you. - Excavator sites are in order like that to enforce a minimum distance for them to appear and to have Players traversing the generated map, rather than getting even faster basically free Rewards by them having a tendency to spawn next to your feet or just in the next tile or two all day. the distance separation also makes it actually a challenge to have more than one deployed at a time. and it's not something you weren't already doing anyways. ... now, if you can show Digital Extremes examples of having to run from corner to corner on the map (or so) to get from last Excavator to next, that would be a different story. especially pending Tileset, some are less ideal at this very moment for how it works, but almost all comply very well. this enforced minimum distance is the thing that makes no sense. generate them some distance from each other, but to force players to run to a more distant site just because we want you to run farther seems like an antipattern for game design. I'll see if I can record a run to demonstrate how ridiculous the running around can become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai_Shiba Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 thank you. this enforced minimum distance is the thing that makes no sense. generate them some distance from each other, but to force players to run to a more distant site just because we want you to run farther seems like an antipattern for game design. I'll see if I can record a run to demonstrate how ridiculous the running around can become. It's always been like that, I remember having to run across like 11 tiles just to get to the other excavation site. (Screw Earth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmsilver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It's always been like that, I remember having to run across like 11 tiles just to get to the other excavation site. (Screw Earth) it has definitely not always been like that. I run excavations to level new gear, and only about half of the time did the sites spawn more than a tile or two away. it does happen, not it is the exception, not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) but please go and try it yourself before making post that is based on patchnotes and not on your player experience. my opinion is based off of playing it a bit (Pluto Dark Sector Excavation is a very entertaining way to get Focus in Multiplayer, so i'm quite fond of it - but only for that, nothing else, lol), but more off of the extensive testing that went into Excavation while those changes were being made, and was decided worked well, so was pushed to Live. you were saying? this enforced minimum distance is the thing that makes no sense. generate them some distance from each other, but to force players to run to a more distant site just because we want you to run farther seems like an antipattern for game design. the minimum enforcement doesn't cause Excavators to be on the other end of the map. on larger tiles, you can get two at a time in the same tile potentially. Edited January 23, 2016 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ograzzt Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I did, I do excavations everyday. It's always been like that, I remember having to run across like 11 tiles just to get to the other excavation site. (Screw Earth) No, you didn't. Before this update all excavators were spawned at one tile one by one. Then you could freely run across your 11 tiles to the next excavation site, do another 3-4 excavations, run to another tile and so on. Now you need to run back and forth after almost every excavation. Or you need to gather a team before the match and split up. It makes excavation missions with PUGs almost impossible. PUGs will just run to the next excavator on another side of the map, activate it, and of course it will be destroyed, because 90% of the time they can't protect it on their own. Before, all the excavators were clusted together and you could at least help them to protect it with CC or something. Btw, this thing with excavators across the map, same excavator spawn logic existed before, but later was cancelled because it was too annoying. Now they are basically bring it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kihana Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I've just done the Gift of the Lotus excavation, and I'm not seeing the issue from that one mission (one mission, admittedly). On some tiles we had one, on others we had two. The lower level player died and got revived, but then it was low level and that's reasonable It seems to be in a good place at lower levels at least. The mission even made sense in the way it spawned extractors in the general direction of eventual extraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culaio Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) - you have more to do in Excavation now, Enemies pound every Excavator harder than they did before. now instead of the difficulty only coming if you activated 3 at once, you have some difficulty on just one, and can opt into MUCH MORE Difficulty if you decide to call more than one at a time. - Excavator sites are in order like that to enforce a minimum distance for them to appear and to have Players traversing the generated map, rather than getting even faster basically free Rewards by them having a tendency to spawn next to your feet or just in the next tile or two all day. the distance separation also makes it actually a challenge to have more than one deployed at a time. and it's not something you weren't already doing anyways. - Excavation is still atleast 2x the speed of any other Gamemode for Rewards. again, you have more to do in Excavation now, rather than the Objective being trivial and something you ignore after a few seconds each time you start a new Objective. now, if you can show Digital Extremes examples of having to run from corner to corner on the map (or so) to get from last Excavator to next, that would be a different story. especially pending Tileset, some are less ideal at this very moment for how it works, but almost all comply very well. This is interesting because me and my team experiance was completly oposite, spawn rate of enemies, including power carriers was bad really bad, we frequently ended up with no energy in our excavators, enemies that showed up ended up dying really quickly we had so much free time that we started talking why DE decreased spawn rate of enemies(it was mission on Hieracon, pluto), we had nothing really to do other then running in every direction looking for even one power carrier, it was extremly boring, mission got interesting only once, it was when only one time excavators spawned close together, it was only time we had more then enough power carriers and fighting was interesting during whole mission. Mission was so boring and time consuming that we left at 1500 not because it was hard but because it was complete snoozefest My and my team spend more time travelling between excavators that actually defending them.... Currently excavation missions become one of most boring missions in game. Edited January 23, 2016 by Culaio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lSwRl Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) So I just did a few excavation missions and the changes they made encourage teams to split up to run more than 1 excavator at a time, mostly because the excavators don't spawn as close to each other as before and u have to activate them in order of spawn. Personally I think this is bad game design for a game focusing in co-op gameplay. As the OP said it would be much better if we didn't have to activate the excavators in order, it will not solve all the problems but that's a good start. The biggest problem is that the way the excavators spawn right now really encourages teams to split up. Edited January 23, 2016 by lSwRl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmsilver Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 just played a few more missions, and it seems my few enemy missions earlier were just bugged somehow. the amount of enemies and energy carriers is actually pretty nice. now, if we could just get the order thing removed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culaio Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) So I just did a few excavation missions and the changes they made encourage teams to split up to run more than 1 excavator at a time, mostly because the excavators don't spawn as close to each other as before and u have to activate them in order of spawn. Personally I think this is bad game design for a game focusing in co-op gameplay. As the OP said it would be much better if we didn't have to activate the excavators in order, it will not solve all the problems but that's a good start. The biggest problem is that the way the excavators spawn right now really encourages teams to split up. ^^^^this This is huge problem because it also means that support type frames have no place in this mission type, for example I liked playing trin to support frost and frames that have good CC abilities, sadly now trin is completly useless since I cant provide energy if team is all over the map. DE always says that they want players to have freedome of choice instead of being forced to bring certain frame/weapons, this change actually decreased amout of choices we have, it will only make some frame types mandatory. Edited January 23, 2016 by Culaio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper-God Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Last weekend we tried to make a record for Excavation on Hieracon. The problem from which we`ve all suffered for a long time arose again. A member of our squad disconnected and was unable to join again. We extracted with 11k cryotic and approximately 70 rare fusion cores. A few days before that we were testing different strategies. We did 2 test runs. First one was to 5k cryotic, second one was to 4.6k. On both of those runs we got around 50 cores. Today we tried to beat our previous 11k run. The first run, at 1k cryotic, one of us got a Host migration and we had to restart. The second try he got a Host migration again, this time at 4k+ cryotic. At that point we decided to stop. How many cores did we get for 4k cryotic? We got 1 pack of 5 cores and 3 cores from drops. That`s right - we got 8 cores for around 40 minutes of gameplay at 4k cryotic. Now, I`m not saying it`s DE`s fault that he disconnected, because I remember last time when we told someone from DE that a guy disconnected at 11k cryotic and got no rewards whatsoever, they simply replied with "It`s not our fault". The problem remains - any of you warframe players may attempt to do long runs and records, but as soon as one of you disconnects and it`s not a crash, he`s done. And your run might be done too, if he`s role was important. So I consider that a major stepback when it comes down to motivation to do records and long runs. Another problem(in my opinion). I don`t know if it`s intentional or not, I don`t know if DE thinks it will go unnoticed or not, but many times we have had changes being made to the game and not a single word being said about them in the patch notes. An example comes to mind when they "fixed" the corpus strun units in the void, but I won`t go into that now as it was a problem of another time. I read the patch notes very carefully every time and I observe the ingame changes with extreme intensity. I have never in the past had the experience of getting a single 5 fusion core pack for let`s say a thousand cryotic. And today I had that experience for 4200 cryotic. That`s for Hieracon specifically as I haven`t tried other excavation missions yet after the update. So DE "forgot" to mention that they reduced the fusion core pack rewards. I am seriously hoping for a solution to the disconnections problems so we can continue with our attempts to do records. Here`s a screenshot of the endscreen of our last run, incase someone is interested: And here`s the 11k run: For both runs you can see only 3 of us were extracting as the last one had disconnected and lost all rewards + couldn`t reconnect because "objective completed" Thank you, Reaper-God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Ouroboros Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Seeing a lot of threads like this from hardcore core farmers like myself. A sudden drop in core drops. But of course, apparently it's just "rng" and everyone is a conspiracy theorist for even mentioning this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDM774 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Not only that but I think the way the mobs spawn (or handle stuns) has also been tampered with. In both runs I was a stun Mirage, In the 11K run I had the mobs in an almost constant stun lock no problem. In the 4k+ run I would quite literally stun them and have a charger come up to me and install his claw in my face WHILE BEING STUNNED and I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askell91 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Before the patch i enjoyed to play excavations. There were a lot of enemies to kill and it was rewarding, but now it's a pain to play thanks to the excavation sites what spawns on the another side of the wold and the fact there is only one or two excavators per site.... (who the hell even thought this was a good idea to begin with?). There are not enough power cells (carriers) to begin with to drop the starting energy to 20% from 50%...we spent most of the time waiting for them to appear for minutes.....DE you should make the missions more awesome so peoples spend more time in them, not nerf them to the ground so peoples need to spend half of theyr time running around this way the mission would take ages to do. This is not the way to make peoples play your game more. GL fixing it up. (what i hope gonna come realy fast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranks21 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 yeah its total crap now and not worth playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorovich Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 No, you didn't. Before this update all excavators were spawned at one tile one by one. Then you could freely run across your 11 tiles to the next excavation site, do another 3-4 excavations, run to another tile and so on. Now you need to run back and forth after almost every excavation. Or you need to gather a team before the match and split up. It makes excavation missions with PUGs almost impossible. PUGs will just run to the next excavator on another side of the map, activate it, and of course it will be destroyed, because 90% of the time they can't protect it on their own. Before, all the excavators were clusted together and you could at least help them to protect it with CC or something. Btw, this thing with excavators across the map, same excavator spawn logic existed before, but later was cancelled because it was too annoying. Now they are basically bring it back. Yeah excavations are now rekt. I don't know who's bright idea was to make only 1 or 2max extractors appear per tile and force people run around the map (and how the tiles may spawn it may literally be half of the map to get to the next extractor) but it's frustrating. just played a few more missions, and it seems my few enemy missions earlier were just bugged somehow. the amount of enemies and energy carriers is actually pretty nice. now, if we could just get the order thing removed... The amount of enemies is the same. But carrier spawns are very random. I've just set in mission for about a minute with no power for 2 extractors cause there were no carriers around, just normal enemies. ^^^^this This is huge problem because it also means that support type frames have no place in this mission type, for example I liked playing trin to support frost and frames that have good CC abilities, sadly now trin is completly useless since I cant provide energy if team is all over the map. Also this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranks21 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 the thought process in this change is just bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kletse Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 They just made sure you won't progress as fast as usual in excavation anymore. They wrapped it in a nice package of words in the patch notes, but it's only this. -imo- Exc has become boring too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexus_brachialis Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 the only change excavation missions needed was buffing the excavator health in higher levels. but of course not. i loved excavations ever since they were introduced, but these changes just make it an awful long chore to play yesterday i tried doing daily excavation mission, thinking oh this will be easy, i need only 5 excavators to finish. gave up halfway through because it was taking too freaking long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Pitou-- Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Couldn't agree more. I guess site spawn changes make logical sense, but come on, people already were complaining that excavation maps are too long and require lots of running back and forth before the patch. And starting power? So, I have to pick up 4 cells instead of 3 now. Insane gameplay change, how could I play without it /s Meanwhile, Phobos excavation scaling is still broken. Even more broken than ramparts in Ceres hijacks, but that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorovich Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 They just made sure you won't progress as fast as usual in excavation anymore. They wrapped it in a nice package of words in the patch notes, but it's only this. -imo- Exc has become boring too. Yes. Less rewards and more boring gameplay is surely a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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