Video Critique By A Youtuber "why I Quit Warframe"

[battlehotdog]

so i found this in my subbox.

thought i should share this, especially for the Devs.

 

background

TotalBiscuit (popular reviewer) recently started playing warframe again. Genna (the wife of him) started playing along with him, but as a "true" free to play-player(she tried not to buy/use plat). she lists reasons why she quit warframe after 45 hours of playing in this video, so have fun watching i guess.

 

Edited January 24, 2016 by battlehotdog

[Kai_Shiba]

After watching the video. I will already address this.

 

 

 

It's not her cup of tea of a game. 

 

 

Like come on, 45 hours and quitting because it's just not her cup of tea of her game.

 

45 hours is nothing. Plus she makes untrue statements. Also, You need to pay to enjoy Warframe?

 

I only paid for one prime access and I'm still playing.

 

Like seriously? I'm sorry but that is just a weak review of the game. Again, 45 hours?

 

Again, it's just not her cup of tea for a game.

Edited January 24, 2016 by KJRenz

[Lost_Cartographer]

1 hour 20 minutes and "bored."  She makes some good points (and rambles a ton) but that remark alone told me "this just wasn't her kind of game" or worse (and what my brother tends to do) she walked in with a mindset to look for the negatives to begin with.

 

Really, the whole video devolves into bashing more so than critiquing.  I understand I'm the oddity in that I can figure things out on my own pretty quickly, but this one... lost at all times.

 

Also, my favorite fallacy from F2Pers - someone's okay paying $60 for a game, but if it says free to play, then they MUST be able to play and succeed immensely for free like the developers are running some kind of charity.  Seriously, even if it says F2P, One should do themselves, the developers, and other players a favor and sink the $60 after a week of play figuring out what they want/need.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Littleman88

[battlehotdog]

i know that isnt probably her kind of game, still i think there are some true points, if you are starting out with warframe

[-MW-ErroR-]

.....maybe Farm Frenzy is her kind of game:))).........so tired  about all this reviewers...........

Edited January 24, 2016 by -MW-Marius-

[Kai_Shiba]

i know that isnt probably her kind of game, still i think there are some true points, if you are starting out with warframe

 

Which Total Biscuit already covered in his new Relapse video. Stating that new players are overwhelmed with lack of proper in depth tutorials for new players. Always having to conduct on the Warframe wiki or ask Veterans constantly. 

[kitsu]

I wouldn't say more that "it isnt her type of game" as it was more like, throwing a kid that can't swim into the deep end of the pool. Sure they learn to swim, but the experience itself won't be a 'good' one.

 

Basicly, after watching the video, it was more, so much is not explained, which is a problem I have had to deal with. As a beginer, if you don't find someone that knows warframe well, and takes you under their wing, the game is a pretty huge wall to climb.

Plus, unlike biscuit who had plat to splurge, genna went in with no plat and no understanding of warframe, so this is a pretty good subjective view point of someone who never played warframe, and more or less 'documents' their ordeal with warframe, and how hard warframe is for beginners.

 

Lost and confused at its finest. DE, we need something better than the 'guides of the lotus' something better, something, like a student and sensei system. Teach the new players with the experience of the old veterans.

 

 

 

TL:DR Warframe needs better tutorials and begineer freindly system for easing players into the vast world of warframe. Video is from the view points of one who knows little to nothing about how warframe works, and how "free" everything is, despite being grindy.

[Multicom-EN-]

What a terrible reason and review. Good god.

[Kai_Shiba]

-snip-

 

Which is what I want DE to somewhat focus this year along with their StarChart and Lore.

 

Better explaination, better tutorials that are in depth

[battlehotdog]

What a terrible reason and review. Good god.

this isnt a review btw

Which is what I want DE to somewhat focus this year along with their StarChart and Lore.

 

Better explaination, better tutorials that are in depth

i totally agree. the new player experience is still meh

[-dicht.Amducias-]

this isnt a review btw

i totally agree. the new player experience is still meh

Ye we really are in need for better tutorials and tip system etc.. i currently have over 50 kinda new players in my friendslist, i get spammed with invites and after all it gets harder and harder to help new players, because there is more and more content but still no explanation for basics etc

[ClockworkSpectre]

So... not enough instant gratification for her, and she doens't like a sense of game progression... right.   

 

I suppose there were a couple of points i could agree with like the new player experience, but not much more than that. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by ClockworkSpectre

[Urlan]

From what has been shown and hinted, the starchart 3.0 will not be an improvement in this regard though it might help some players. Many new players view the quests as the story and progress of the game not seeing that the quests are mostly tutorials. I help alot of players and instead of viewing the quests as tutorials, most players I have assisted think of clearing them as beating what Warframe has to offer so far with the low reward and numerous starchart missions as just a needless grind - this is the playerbase viewpoint that will be assisted by the proposed changes of starchart 3.0.

 

Its a shame that the youtuber quit Warframe, I think the game has a good amount of potential personally. I worry about the changes that will be brought on by starchart 3.0 and the void removal as a node since it makes playing for veteran players or those seeking rewards harder without improving the experience or sense of motivation. I think a better path would be creating incentives for players to redo the large starchart and expanding upon that send of growth instead of going backwards but that is a different topic. I hope TotalBiscuit can convince his other to try the game again later, hopefully there will be something interesting to her sense of style or gameplay and until then, I understand there are other games to hit in the sea of PC gaming.

[kitsu]

So... not enough instant gratification for her, and she doens't like a sense of game progression... right.   

 

I suppose there were a couple of points i could agree with like the new player experience, but not much more than that. 

 

Good sir, I'd like to point out that it was not the fact of instant gratification, but more along the lines of not knowing how everything in warframe works. Yes, it would be on her to look up most of this stuff, but as she pointed out, nothing in game gave any warnings as to how things work, she did not even know about the mod system until biscuit mentioned it.

 

If I recall, there is no tutorials about mods and how to fuse them unless you actually FIND it. And another point, the BP for mirage in game never states that you can only get the parts from a quest, no where does it mention that.

 

So once again, warframe needs a better system for new players who know nothing about warframe, unlike someone like you or me who knows everything about warframe.

 

Try looking through other's perspectives without injection one's own. Brings better understanding overall as to what she was talking about, albeit struggling at times so not to sound like she just hates warframe or wanted instant gratification.

Edited January 24, 2016 by kitsu

[Djego27]

Well both are on the opposite side of "wrong?"(I guess there is no real right but both opinions are left and right of my own as MR21 after over 3k hours in the game) about warframe and grind. Mirage has no RNG to it, once you ready or have somebody that will help you with that, you will have the frame, market weapons are no grind(compare that to do over 80 runs T4E and also farm most of the keys for that for the last vectis prime part).

 

While TB just does buy everything with plat and and bypasses all the in his opinion "not to bad grind"(even if he is not as hilarious as Force talking about grind is ok while he never ever actually facing the real grind in any game because he just jumps to the next one before that), Genna expects a progress without focus(what is impossible in the game if you solo). You can get Mirage early on, if you want to do that totally solo, like she did chose you need about 100h to unlock the planets, grind and upgrade the mods you need to do vault runs and then solo the mirage missions. A alternative is just to join a halve reasonable clan, mesa, nova prime, ash prime where choices from new players in the last few months and my answer was "if you really want it, you will have it, I give you a hand with it"(because as MR21 I just can carry a new player in any kind of mission without much effort, and I will as long as he really tries to reach his goal). If the player had time and interest in it, he had his frame of choice in 2-3 days.

 

However a lot of points are very much spot on:

 

- lack of explanation for most stuff, without the wiki WF would be nearly impossible to understand for new players

- quest reward Warframe BPs should have a info about that in the market, to prevent the disappointment to buy something that is out of reach for you at this point in time

- There should be more starter weapon/frame slots or just give them out at certain mastery rank, in my MR21 account there is like 800p in weapon and warframe slots, that is more in real money that you would spend on destiny this days, while you still have to grind all this stuff to fill that slots separately

 

Edit: Just to address the final statement of TB about WF, DE is incredible good when it comes to shooter mechanics, flow of play and visual design(it is incredible and not done so well in any other other shooter to date) but it also got to many very bad implemented things like the absolute lack of explanation to new players, bad weapon balance(this is not because of some weapons are miles better then others for no reason at all but that many weapons simply lacks the polish to really present them self as useful choice for a certain scenarios), the general level scaling(what does not work in a single game well I played in the last 15 years, but just results in bullet sponges and players getting one hit by everything) and the modding system(there is no reason why a veteran should do 3000% more damage then a new player, this is something impossible to balance around if you want to create a game that is fun for everybody).

Edited January 24, 2016 by Djego27

[Man_in_White]

Great video! All points are very valid. No plat, no trading and no help from other players in coop will make Warframe insanely unfun. That's the good message she got, not many even professional reviewers do that. And pretty important to have in mind.

[sappinmahsentry]

45 hours is nothing. Plus she makes untrue statements. Also, You need to pay to enjoy Warframe?

 

I only paid for one prime access and I'm still playing.

I haven't paid a cent and I'm still playing. I'm actually pretty successful in this game, hell, I have good enough equipment to get past level 65, the only reason I can't go higher w/o valk is because I got burnt out after 1113 hours of gameplay.

[kasalaba]

I wanted to post this video in case it wasn't here. I wanted to argue with some of the points she made and agree with others. But the fact is I (and many others) joined very early on. I started as soon as it came out of closed beta. At first I wanted to say that its just not her cup of tea, this game. But it is not true, it is. It should be. I realized that if I joined now I would have done the same as her. There are too many walls to progress, and no tutorials. It took me ages to finish my first archwing, but I did not need it to unlock another planet. The reason most of us were ok is that we had already consumed the content before continuing with the new update. I hope the DE will see this and make some use of this knowledge.

[Davoodoo]

Everyone saying 45h is not enough. I call bullS#&$ to that.

From my personnal experience, within 15 minutes i can decide whether this is my type of the game or if ill be willing to play it, upon 2 hours i can tell if ill enjoy it, if i put 45 hours on a game then i want to play it.

 

Tb mentioned problems with pricing and repetitiveness in earlier review.

Original u6 review.

Much smaller game and slots and potatoes were a problem back then, now we have 7 times(wild guess cant be bothered) more weapons maybe more and over double the frames.

Plat is absolutely required to enjoy early game. You can hammer through without plat but to actually have reasonable pacing you need plat.

 

 

Woman is right, this opinion is shared by many ppl who tried warframe and were scared of by grind and timers.

Thats what outside which hasnt commited to grind for years thinks about warframe.

 

If not for this financial model warframe would probably be much more popular, atm no wonder that very old team fortress is more popular game on steam.

Then if de did anything with repetition it would be probably most popular not moba game for years.

 

 

Also mind that within 45 hours she didnt reach any problems which veterans face like lack of balance, lack of challenge, prime grind, forma and timed exclusivity.

 

Also most recent overview from tb

Edited January 24, 2016 by Davoodoo

[Dabus87]

I saw many valid points in comments and I agree with things like game doesn't explain much to new players, but here is the thing - I came to this game with this assumption, I liked this game so I bought some plat as if I would pay for any other game on steam few bucks which gave me enough frame/weapon slots to have a lot of choices and fun with the game. Why not throw some money at free to play game that is in my opinion a lot better then most p2p or subscription based games?

[battlehotdog]

blub

exactly the same, have a friend who started out, i carried him and he told me that this would ve been horrible if i havnt helped him

[Kai_Shiba]

To clarify everything of what I said and to answer Davoodoo points

 

 

DE NEEDS to have this at a high priority. 

 

For new players alike. There could be like a rewarding system up to MR5 to give new players Potatoes, slots etc. To give them a good start. Give them a reason to keep going

 

Add more information to the Codex rather than having to use the Warframe Wiki every single time

 

A better tutorial that explains things more thoroughly. Basics on modding, Advance on modding ETC

 

A way that new players have to stop relying the warframe wiki and asking Verterans every single time just to understand Basics

 

The Relapse of TB is on point as well, New players need better explanation on this. Because becoming overwhelmed with stuff you don't know about is not fun at all.

Edited January 24, 2016 by KJRenz

[Davoodoo]

The Relapse of TB is on point as well, New players need better explanation on this. Because becoming overwhelmed with stuff you don't know about is not fun at all.

Take a point that this relapse is relatively new player on sense of novelty without indepth knowledge.

And for years now i told this, warframe relies on sense of novelty.

 

He looks at new weapon as new craziness, me and my clan full of veterans looks as new weapon as mastery fodder which might occasionally have stats good enough to be used.

 

As for information, yeah 10p for cmod is cheap for him, for any player with knowledge 10p for cmod is 10p too much.

7k plat is not that much, it will last for additions from 3 updates at best.

 

And i wont blame him, around same playtime, i had similiar feeling, but this wears off eventually.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Davoodoo

[Kai_Shiba]

Take a point that this relapse is relatively new player on sense of novelty without indepth knowledge.

And for years now i told this, warframe relies on sense of novelty.

 

He looks at new weapon as new craziness, me and my clan full of veterans looks as new weapon as mastery fodder which might occasionally have stats good enough to be used.

 

As for information, yeah 10p for cmod is cheap for him, for any player with knowledge 10p for cmod is 10p too much.

 

Which I hopefully becomes clear when Damage 3.0 rolls out. Maybe then that Skana can be viable later on, who knows.

 

But I can't say anything about it because it's not out yet. Hopefully it's done right.

[kitsu]

Everyone saying 45h is not enough. I call bullS#&$ to that.

From my personnal experience, within 15 minutes i can decide whether this is my type of the game or if ill be willing to play it, upon 2 hours i can tell if ill enjoy it, if i put 45 hours on a game then i want to play it.

 

Tb mentioned problems with pricing and repetitiveness in earlier review.

 

Original u6 review.

Much smaller game and slots and potatoes were a problem back then, now we have 7 times(wild guess cant be bothered) more weapons maybe more and over double the frames.

Plat is absolutely required to enjoy early game. You can hammer through without plat but to actually have reasonable pacing you need plat.

 

 

Woman is right, this opinion is shared by many ppl who tried warframe and were scared of by grind and timers.

Thats what outside which hasnt commited to grind for years thinks about warframe.

 

If not for this financial model warframe would probably be much more popular, atm no wonder that very old team fortress is more popular game on steam.

Then if de did anything with repetition it would be probably most popular not moba game for years.

 

 

Also mind that within 45 hours she didnt reach any problems which veterans face like lack of balance, lack of challenge, prime grind, forma and timed exclusivity.

 

While some of what you said is a good point, that was not entirely what was talked about nor the main focus.

 

There was mentions as to how there is no active tutorial on how to mod, fuse mods, and quisition of mods, nothing that explains how scanners work and how useful they are, nothing about relays existing that new players can use, nothing about quest related frames like mirage that have blueprints in the shop stating that their parts can only be aquired from a specific quest.

 

There are so many blank areas in warframe that without help from an outside source, the game becomes quite a gridlock of poor understanding and explanation.

 

Yes, wiki is an alternative, yes asking is an alternative, guides of the lotus are decent but not good enough.

 

The game itself needs a form of begining and an all covering tutorial about every CORE feature of warframe, so new players can learn how it works, how they can farm for most parts quite fairly.

 

In the end of the day, this is comparing someone like you and me who has alot of knowledge and experience in warframe with someone who might have never heard of warframe let alone how any mechanics in warframe work.

 

 

 

The clear message that Genna in her video is not about how grindy and bad it is, but how hard it is to understand and how easy it is to become lost or even overwhelmed by the scale taht warframe has become. Warframe needs a better tutorial and ways to slide new players into the game. It is very much like Monster Hunter series where if you don't have a high ranking hunter guiding you through that game, you better off just stating its too grindy, or 'not my kind of game'

Edited January 24, 2016 by kitsu