How I Think Ash Can Be Improved

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Alright, first and foremost, a little on why this post is created:

 

Though I'm an Excalibro, I have a habit of rotating my frames for secondary main and this week, it is Ash.

 

I consider Ash as a ninja frame and while I'm currently using him, I noticed some things that can perhaps be improved on.

 

Having said that, as an Excalibro, I apologise if any of my ideas seem too Excalibur-like.

 

In addition, I do not care about figures; only the player interactivity and fun factor so I will not be introducing any stats because I think DE and some others are more qualified for that.

 

So, let's get down to it:

 

 

 

Shuriken

 

I propose that shuriken be changed to such that if you tap 1, it launches a homing shuriken; so basically same as now.

 

However, if you hold 1, you will charge up an "exalted glaive" and upon release, you will send this "exalted glaive" flying in a straight path forward, slicing everything in its path before flying back and slicing everything in its path again.

 

The damage it deals and the distance it flies will be determined by how long you charge it, subject to a cap that is affected by mods.

 

 

Smoke Bomb

 

Frankly, I don't know how to improve this. Ash is a ninja so he gotta have this.

 

So, I guess it will stay. Maybe, some stat changes; make it longer or whatever but I don't care about that so let the stats people do that.

 

 

Teleport

 

This is the biggest one I want to change.

 

Currently, you press 3 and you teleport to an enemy or ally and if it is an enemy, it becomes open to finisher if you are at its back or open to melee damage multiplier if at its front.

 

My opinion is that is not cool enough!

 

My suggestion is you press 3, Ash teleports to the enemy or ally.

 

Once Ash reaches that location, he tosses a smokebomb which will open every enemy in a radius around that enemy/ally (the radius will be affected by mods) to finishers.

 

So, it is kinda like a radial blind but the execution is to teleport to an ally or enemy to perform this "radial blind" which will be a smokebomb.

 

You will not be invisible though because then the "real" smokebomb will become lame.

 

 

Blade Storm

 

I can't really think of anything for this one.

 

I think it can be improved on in terms of player interactivity and I did thought of making it a toggle ability so Ash will unleash his hidden blades and everytime you hit E, you will automatically teleport to a target that you aim at and deal a huge amount of damage like it is now except its manually done so player involvement is there.

 

However, humans simply cannot perform quick enough reflexes to make it as cool as it currently is so I'm just gonna leave this to DE to think of how to improve this.

 

 

That's all I can think of.

 

Excalibro signing off~

Edited January 30, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[PickleMonster21]

Your Teleport idea sounds more like an Augment. Just saying.

[(XBOX)Drvnzer]

I think ash teleport should be a free aim teleport

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Your Teleport idea sounds more like an Augment. Just saying.

 

Ah yes but there's a difference.

 

An augment takes up a mod spot but an ability doesn't=)

 

So, what I propose is an ability not a mod.

Edited January 30, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I think ash teleport should be a free aim teleport

 

I did thought of this but there will a mechanic issue.

 

How does the game know how far to put the cursor?

 

So, if let's say we press 3 and you look at a wall 200m away, will the cursor lie on the 200m wall and when executed put you at a place somewhere in the middle of the gap (which I believe will be affected by range of the ability) or at the 200m wall.

 

Now, what if we look up and press 3. Will it be the same?

 

So, in essence, will there be an imaginary sphere around us for which the cursor and lie maximally  or will there be no limit?

 

If it is the imaginary sphere method, there has to be a way to tell us how far that is and so, maybe a circle around Ash which means this ability will have to be a hold 3 and release because if you tap only, it is too fast to show the circle.

 

That's too many things to consider for me which is why I did not write it down but then I don't see why not either so kudos to your suggestion=)

[Man_In_Suitcase]

Ash pretty much got a buff this week to his Bladestorm as Body Count now buffs the melee counter longer than Raising storm would, all without having to mod your ash for plus duration, making the mod aug utterly useless now.

 

What would be nice is that if Smoke Bomb would cause temp blindness, effected by range/duration mods, however I really don't think Ash needs anymore tweaks and stuff, especailly atm....

[Nox-Lamina]

I did thought of this but there will a mechanic issue.

 

How does the game know how far to put the cursor?

 

So, if let's say we press 3 and you look at a wall 200m away, will the cursor lie on the 200m wall and when executed put you at a place somewhere in the middle of the gap (which I believe will be affected by range of the ability) or at the 200m wall.

 

Now, what if we look up and press 3. Will it be the same?

 

So, in essence, will there be an imaginary sphere around us for which the cursor and lie maximally  or will there be no limit?

 

If it is the imaginary sphere method, there has to be a way to tell us how far that is and so

 

This already exists in game, programmed and ready to go with Nova's Wormhole, you travel to a fixed distance and then reappear. So if you see a 200m gap you will travel 50m (affected by range mods) and then reappear. If you have found god's version of overextended and the distance is 200m you cross the gap, if not you reappear and fall. If you point at a wall 5m away, you teleport straight to that wall.

 

If you want to make Ash better. Give shuriken the ability to blind enemies around the impact. And make smokescreen an actual smokescreen that blinds enemies caught in it. The point is, give Ash's abilities utility that affects enemies of all levels and make teleport free aim.

[(XBOX)Hot Granny Jam]

Teleport should be free aim to a set distance.

Bladestorm should send your clones out but allow Ash himself to move freely.

That's enough IMO.

[PrVonTuckIII]

Eh. I'm honestly ok with Ash as he is. I just want free-aim teleport.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Welcome to the Ash Rework Thread Group. We are legion (j/k). 

 

Check out this one:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/563302-ash-the-conglomerated-rework/

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Welcome to the Ash Rework Thread Group. We are legion (j/k). 

 

Check out this one:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/563302-ash-the-conglomerated-rework/

 

Cool!

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The only change i want for teleport is for it to be free-aim. Ash is, ninja part aside, a offensive stealth user. Smokebomb isn't only poor stealth (compared to invisibility) but it's also a reset to stealth multipliers. Shurikens leave slash and his ult is sheer destruction. Evrything about him practicly SCREAMS melee and kill. It makes sense for bladestorm to need a target as it's reference for his range but NOT for teleport. Teleport should be mobility to bring you to enemy lines. It does serve this purpose but its in complete conflict with the rest of his speedy playstyle.

I'm practicly maining Ash and rarely play him with anything but melee equipped (reason beein the obvious benefits that come with the syergy) and i can deal with picking targets for his bladestorm in melee range (as you can't exactly aim with a melee weapon) but why should i EVER teleport to a target that's right in front of me?! Cause thats about the limit for fast-aiming with melee...

He should just teleport forward for x meters (affected by range) or to a surface/enemy and leave a radial smokescreen (+1 to OP's concept) to open enemys in range to stealth finishers. That's about it tho. He needs this kind of performance upgrade more then anything else as he is pretty much flawless to begin with.

Edited January 30, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[PickleMonster21]

Ah yes but there's a difference.

 

An augment takes up a mod spot but an ability doesn't=)

 

So, what I propose is an ability not a mod.

Obvioulsy, but you're asking to implement an augment into the ability. Why don't we just do that to Nekros' Soul Punch, or literally anyone else that has an augment?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Obvioulsy, but you're asking to implement an augment into the ability. Why don't we just do that to Nekros' Soul Punch, or literally anyone else that has an augment?

Or excals RB

Wait...

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Obvioulsy, but you're asking to implement an augment into the ability. Why don't we just do that to Nekros' Soul Punch, or literally anyone else that has an augment?

Well, that really will depends on the purpose of doing that and if it even make sense.

 

The reason why I'm proposing this for Ash is simply because he is a ninja so it would make sense for him to be able to teleport and toss a smokebomb on the spot and smoke does blur vision of enemies within the area so it makes sense to function like a "radial blind".

 

However, if we take Nekros and any other frame and just throw in something like this. It may seem a bit wierd, at least for me.

 

Either way, the main intent is to provide him with a CC and also if you notice, none of my suggestions change the abilities in the way they work from now.

 

They are all addons so if you want to put it in a way, all the abilities I have mentioned can be augments but I don't see why they should take up mod slots to do these moves in the first place, but that's just me so we can agree to disagree.

[Swailwort]

I feel like Smoke Bomb should become a proper Smoke Bomb and not a terrible Invisibility Ability.

What I mean is Ash drops a Smoke Bomb which covers the area for 8s base duration. Ash is effectively invisible inside the AoE, Amy enemy inside The AoE gets a blind like effect and any enemy outside the AoE can't fire through the Smoke.

Also every enemy inside the Smoke is opened to finishers

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I feel like Smoke Bomb should become a proper Smoke Bomb and not a terrible Invisibility Ability.

What I mean is Ash drops a Smoke Bomb which covers the area for 8s base duration. Ash is effectively invisible inside the AoE, Amy enemy inside The AoE gets a blind like effect and any enemy outside the AoE can't fire through the Smoke.

Also every enemy inside the Smoke is opened to finishers

 

That could work.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

That could work.

Yeah definitly. I mean thers hardly a reason to build him for invisibility since trickery and naramon found theyr way into the game.

[(PSN)MrDemigod81]

I feel like Smoke Bomb should become a proper Smoke Bomb and not a terrible Invisibility Ability.

What I mean is Ash drops a Smoke Bomb which covers the area for 8s base duration. Ash is effectively invisible inside the AoE, Amy enemy inside The AoE gets a blind like effect and any enemy outside the AoE can't fire through the Smoke.

Also every enemy inside the Smoke is opened to finishers

That's exactly how I was thinking smoke screen should be.

Yeah definitly. I mean thers hardly a reason to build him for invisibility since trickery and naramon found theyr way into the game.

Almost seems useless! Lol

[(PSN)MrDemigod81]

That could work.

Ash is really beloved warframe I've seen many who don't mind his kit to change he just don't feel ninja enough I feel like Ivara out shine him in stealth I would love to see ash with stealth passives that reduce his visibility when crouching or rolling. for those who played tenchu know what I mean.

[SilentFatality]

I like your idea of charging Ash's 1st ability. It will definitely be more versatile.

 

I agree with everyone that Smoke Screen shd be an actual smoke screen which blinds enemies in that area and affected by mods. I suggest that Smoke Screen invisibility should be tweaked as well. Where Ash is only invisible when standing in the shadows and visible when standing in the light. Works like Mirage's Eclipse.

[AKKILLA]

I will offer My ideas and what My good friend Koga, one of the biggest Ash fans I know since he never stops talking about Ash. Im also an Ash Fan but I am more Favored to Excalibur like You cuz Exalted Blade.

 

SHURIKEN

You hit this idea on POINT! The charged idea is great but should drain energy depending how long its held, the casted animation should look better and the Exalted Glaive is AWESOME, currently Shuriken cannot be seen I only see the energy color trajectory and thats sad, It is throw similar to Vaubans Teslas and Oberons smite, not cool at all. The shuriken would look awesome as a Exalted Glaive Period whether its charged or not soo good idea, Glaives are a Giant Shuriken after all +1

 

SMOKE SCREEN

This idea was originally Kogas, Smoke Screens duration is fine. Im not here to promote longer smoke screen duration at all. The idea is actually Logic, a live Smoke Screen Cloud, basically like Assassins Creed smoke bomb, keeping the initial invisibility Ash receives but this AoE Smoke Bomb is intended for 2 purposes. 

1: Crowd Control: Enemies who enter the Cloud are choked and stunned opening them up to Finishers for Ash and his team mates. A much needed CC making Ash a Team player.

2: A window of opportunity for allies to enter a late smoke shadow buff which in my opinion is Ashs Best augment if you realize the passive it grants allies, Smoke Screen could use a range increase for its Cloud AoE which would allow more CC and better entry to Smoke Shadow.

 

TELEPORT

I love the way you worded Teleport tho you didnt think of one idea but you hit one thought I have spoken about right in the Bullseye.

Teleport now is very under used, pin point accuracy is required and some teleports enemies still escape and you lose your much needed finisher kills. Dropping a smoke bomb on enemies and garuanteeing a Finisher kill is Fantastic for Teleport. +1

Another idea along with the teleport smoke bomb stun, is allowing a short ranged free aim Teleport Dash. Less energy cost but shorter range say maybe 10-15ms more or less, along with this small radius smoke bomb +1 I love it

 

BLADESTORM

The hardest ability to come up with a rework, most say leave it alone others say change the ability entirely.

This Idea was over looked by most but I think its a fantastic idea even tho some folks dont want another Stance Ultimate, I think Bladestorm would be fantastic as a Stance Ulti, I will explain in detail I hope I dont Lose or bore You bare with Me this shouldnt be over looked.

 

-Casting Bladestorm Ash summons his Shadow Clones in a Similar Animation as Stalker spawns (Lights Flicker) and Ash/Clones disappear *POOF*

 Ash becomes invisible in Bladestorm and untargetable but may take damage, when you attack Ash/Clones appear out of Smoke Bombs and all his attacks render him Invincible as the current Bladestorm, The damage is the same (Finisher/Slash/Bleedprocs) and Ash/Clones attack together instead of seperately.  Ash receives a speed increase wall latch is infinite with a moderate energy drain and aim glide increase. Ash also receives synergy while in Bladestorm with his entire kit like Excal and Valkyr. Casting Shuriken Ash/Clones appear and throw 2 Exalted Glaives each (6shurikens) costs more energy to cast. Smoke Screen becomes a CC tool for Ash in Bladestorm mode and gives Ash invisibility for the casters duration with a higher energy cost. Teleport costs less energy and is free aimed Dash Teleport for mobility since we lose the automatic Bladestorm this would allow players interactivity and still keep You elusive and Lethal. Recasting ofcoarse removes Bladestorm.

 

This concept was an observation of other Frames along with farming regular Ash for clan mates. Thank You Grineer Manics :)

I was looking at Manics pattern and since they drop Ash parts it hit Me! Why not make Ashs Bladestorm similar to Manics? Currently Manics cannot be targeted by Bladestorm. Manics Dash around and act like Ninjas, disappearing and reappearing,they even have an invincibility stage where they receive No Damage. Manics disappear when Not attacking, and reappear when attacking. I thought this would work for Bladestorm. 

IMO Ash in Bladestorm would look Insane if He was consumed by Dark Void energy and appeared like this design a Fan artist made, along with his 2 clones

This design was from Fulcrvm as an Alt Helm for Ash but I think would look Fantastic if Ash turned into this when in Toggling Bladestorm. Reminds me of Yoshimitsu and makes sense for a Ninja to bare an Oni helm/mask. Giving Ash the fearsome appearance of a Demon and pushing his Archtype to the max, Lethal and Elusive. Bladestorm works great mechanically but has several bugs and is quiet annoying to watch due to bad cameras, lack luster combo animations, and a lack of not being able to cancel it out when allies are down. This allows Ash players to be more interactive and provide actual support in squads.

 

This idea ofcoarse comes with its own set of combos as its a Stance Ultimate, some dont want more stance Ultimates but Ash as noted in the wiki section is the first Warframe to have a weapon inate to his abilities and I believe this ability would be Perfect as a Stance Ultimate, with all the hard research and ideas put together this maybe a great concept for a Reworked Bladestorm. 

 

Hope You like the ideas and Thanks for Your great ideas aswell, good to see like minded individuals :)

Edited February 3, 2016 by AKKILLA

[AKKILLA]

I feel like Smoke Bomb should become a proper Smoke Bomb and not a terrible Invisibility Ability.

What I mean is Ash drops a Smoke Bomb which covers the area for 8s base duration. Ash is effectively invisible inside the AoE, Amy enemy inside The AoE gets a blind like effect and any enemy outside the AoE can't fire through the Smoke.

Also every enemy inside the Smoke is opened to finishers

 

Wait...

 

People still consider Smoke Screen a bad invisibility? I want to share this build and end this theory because its quiet sad some of You guys havent been creative enough to build your Ash accordingly. This build may require 2 forma and 2 Maxed Arcane Trickerys and I will repeat, Arcane Trickery is not a Band-aid to Smoke Screen. I thought after DE released Wukong and Ivara that this bad Smoke Screen trend would end since Ivara and Wukongs invis duration surpass both Loki and Ash significantly. Smoke Screen is great with its current duration, if You have all the duration mods Maxed you get 22 seconds, if You max Efficiency+Duration you get 17.76 seconds for Your Smoke Screen along with Arcane Trickery You cannot tell Me thats not great. It actualy gives Ash a slightly longer invisibility then Loki and I can prove it in game whenever you would wanna run.

17.76 second smoke screen+20 second Arcane Trickery not good enough? along with Smoke Shadow this makes the team invisible and Nullifier shields nor Stalkers Dispel can deactivate Allies Invisibility similar to Trickery and Shadow Step check the recent wiki notes :) Ivara stole his shine with cloak but The majority of the community are still ignorant to this augments Passive effect it grants allies, Ivaras Cloak arrow doesnt do this

 

While I do agree with smoke screen being also an AoE I dont want Ash to lose invisibility and be hindered to sitting inside a Cloud like ivaras cloak.

Lets keep the invisibility Smoke Screen provides shall we? Add this fantastic AoE idea, I like to think aesthetically that the smoke cloud chokes enemies instead of just blinding them, enemies should cough inside the radius and ofcoarse the Finishers. Enemies outside the AoE cant see inside because thats logic AI, this cloud allows allies to enter and leave invisible for the casters duration.

 

The Teleport smoke bomb should only stun the enemy you teleport to, we dont want ppl complaining and thats why we came up with this Smoke Bomb idea soo one targeted Smoke Bomb Teleport is good, Free aim Teleport should be short ranged and only allows you to teleport to solid ground, soo you cant teleport to the sky, although you can teleport to a higher platform if it doesnt exceed the Dash Teleports range, Teleporting to a Wall say if aiming up will wall latch Ash for a short second maybe? This is just for mobility and the idea came from watchin Shinobi PS2s Stealth Dash which is basically a short teleport.

 

Bladestorm is a weapon and Ash summons shadow clones, now alot of Frames do posses clones but in a Game with Ninjas and the real manifestation of a Shinobi not having clones would disappoint Me (Just My opinion) I consider Bladetorm to be a Ultimate Stealth Finisher and have a few Screen shots where Bladestorm can achieve Stealth affinity Bonus in missions but not the Stealth Affinity Multipliers which in my opinion makes no sense for a Stealth Warframe, but I have some proof that Exalted Blade/Hysteria/Primal Fury can actually proc the Stealth Affinity Multipliers. I had to bring this up because I spoke about this before and folks claimed Bladestorm is already too OP, but isnt EB too OP and if you slash enemies undetected you achieve the Stealth Multiplier with said Frames but when Casting Bladestorm while in Smoke Screen and undetected I either lose my Stealth Multiplier or it doesnt proc it at all but enemies still remain unaware of my location which proves Bladestorm has Stealth Kill potential.

 

After all Ash is a Stealth Frame and Bladestorm should be considered a Super Stealth Kill right? IDK just My idea You tell Me what You think?

 Here is some proof to My theory of Bladestorm and the Stealth affinity Bonus but it doesnt proc the Stealth Affinity Multiplier. I clearly domt see why it shouldnt if Ash is Undetected and in Smoke Screen/Trickery/Shadow Step or w.e other invisibiity means, casting it undetected should achieve Stealth Multipliers.

 

Heres My screen shots of a Stealth run with Excal in EB procing Stealth Multipliers as well as Hysteria and Primal Fury achieving Stealth Multipliers

 

Exalted Blade Stealth Multipliers Proc

 

Hysteria Stealth Multiplier procs

 

Primal Fury Stealth Multiplier Procs

 

Now why cant Bladestorm proc Stealth Multipliers if casted undetected? Just food for thought

[Volinus7]

Aside from his ult I can say that ash is pretty balanced in a game that balances have no meaning.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Volinus7

[AKKILLA]

Now Im hearing the Exalted Ulti's as a Trend to call these Stance Ultis which in reality thats what they are, Stance Ultimates, not Exalted Weapons.

 

Exalted Bladestorm? Sounds cool and I think a Stance Toggle Drain Bladestorm would work perfect with Ash. Makes Bladestorm more Interactive opposed to Fire and forget, Press 4 and watch a Ninja Movie from Sho Kosugi is unappealing and Press 4 to Ninja Rumblers is worst.

 

I love Your Game but no thank You (DE) Steve :P Give us Exalted Bladestorm instead i like the idea of using shuriken and the rest of my abilities in Bladestorm like Excal Valkyr Wukong and Ivara.

 

People said dont make Bladestorm a Stance Ulti in older threads and DE slapped us with Exalted Staff and Exalted Bow, how you like them apples huh? Well lets get used to these Exalted Ultis because I smell more in the making. imo I love Stance Ultis lets make more creative cooler ones.

 

Ash is one of the oldest  and first warframe with built in weapons soo I see why not make it a Stance Ultimate, and dont remove My Shadow Clones porfavor Gracias amigos

Edited February 3, 2016 by AKKILLA