If The War Deals Mostly Impact Damage...

[(PSN)Fac3kick3r_lolz]

....does that means its just an over glorified stick that glows?

[(PSN)jFresh215]

indeed

[CapnFusterCluck]

With a sword that big, you would think it would cut something. But it ends just being so friggin' big it breaks ribs more efficiently than it does cleaving people in half. 

[Pie_mastyr]

came here for a pun... leaving slightly disappointed.

[mindlord0013]

This probably belongs in off-topic.

[(PSN)Fac3kick3r_lolz]

came here for a pun... leaving slightly disappointed.

Idunno what to say..

But I ain't no pun maestro

Edited February 3, 2016 by (PS4)Fac3kick3r_lolz

[UndeadLichKing]

Well, it depends. If you use every single elemental damage mod (with Pressure Point and (Primed) Heavy Trauma), its not gonna be based off of just Impact. From just the raw damage, its already good enough.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Most swords are really just big metal sticks that hurt things

[LordOfScrugging]

In the end, aren't all melee weapons just sticks with different purposes?

[wolf96781]

A sword that big really won't have much of a cutting edge.

 

Regardless of the material blades do dull after use, especially when cutting through metals, flesh, bone, and whatever else the tenno are sawing through.

 

A blade as large as Wars has absurd upkeep associated with it, it is so large the blade could possibly bend and warp under its own size. Not to mention; its surface area to killing is so large that keeping a uniform edge is next to impossible without computers.

 

 

Next; it can't possibly be that sharp. Yes, it's a sword. swords tend to be sharp.

 

But with bulk that massive you'll be less "effortlessly cutting" and more "Unstoppable force meets very movable object." its sheer size dictates a large amount of force is needed to move it, to the point where you risk dulling the blade on the First cut.

 

 

Neatly; compare and elegant, let's say, Japanese sword, to a good old fashioned Claymore. Look it up on Google. "Katana vs Claymore"

 

When compared a Japanese Katana can't cut through another sword, it just bends and warps because of how flimsy it is. But there is nothing better for flaying flesh (Slash damage)

 

Now look at it from the claymores point of view. It cuts through another sword, SWORD CUTS THROUGH SWORD, with next to no effort.

 

Swords like that aren't meant for the elegant cutting of the Japanese Katana (Slash damage)

They're meant to hack their way through anything that you put them up against (Impact damage)

 

SO that being said, historically and physically, it's no wonder the War is a impact based weapon. Don't believe me? Look it up

[LordOfScrugging]

A sword that big really won't have much of a cutting edge.

 

Regardless of the material blades do dull after use, especially when cutting through metals, flesh, bone, and whatever else the tenno are sawing through.

 

A blade as large as Wars has absurd upkeep associated with it, it is so large the blade could possibly bend and warp under its own size. Not to mention; its surface area to killing is so large that keeping a uniform edge is next to impossible without computers.

 

 

Next; it can't possibly be that sharp. Yes, it's a sword. swords tend to be sharp.

 

But with bulk that massive you'll be less "effortlessly cutting" and more "Unstoppable force meets very movable object." its sheer size dictates a large amount of force is needed to move it, to the point where you risk dulling the blade on the First cut.

 

 

Neatly; compare and elegant, let's say, Japanese sword, to a good old fashioned Claymore. Look it up on Google. "Katana vs Claymore"

 

When compared a Japanese Katana can't cut through another sword, it just bends and warps because of how flimsy it is. But there is nothing better for flaying flesh (Slash damage)

 

Now look at it from the claymores point of view. It cuts through another sword, SWORD CUTS THROUGH SWORD, with next to no effort.

 

Swords like that aren't meant for the elegant cutting of the Japanese Katana (Slash damage)

They're meant to hack their way through anything that you put them up against (Impact damage)

 

SO that being said, historically and physically, it's no wonder the War is a impact based weapon. Don't believe me? Look it up

one point it'd like to reference, the war wouldn't be as massive as you're implying given it's open center design. It still would be pretty darn hefty but not as heavy as you're making it out to be, had the center portion been completely solid it would be significantly heavier (and we wouldn't have been able to break it during the second dream lol)

[JesterTheNight]

 

[321agemo]

Well you know what they say about war, it leaves a lasting impact on society.

[DeMeritus]

Well you know what they say about war, it leaves a lasting impact on society.

 

But war... war never changes.

[321agemo]

But war... war never changes.

[(PSN)dursereg]

A sword that big really won't have much of a cutting edge.

Regardless of the material blades do dull after use, especially when cutting through metals, flesh, bone, and whatever else the tenno are sawing through.

A blade as large as Wars has absurd upkeep associated with it, it is so large the blade could possibly bend and warp under its own size. Not to mention; its surface area to killing is so large that keeping a uniform edge is next to impossible without computers.

Next; it can't possibly be that sharp. Yes, it's a sword. swords tend to be sharp.

But with bulk that massive you'll be less "effortlessly cutting" and more "Unstoppable force meets very movable object." its sheer size dictates a large amount of force is needed to move it, to the point where you risk dulling the blade on the First cut.

Neatly; compare and elegant, let's say, Japanese sword, to a good old fashioned Claymore. Look it up on Google. "Katana vs Claymore"

When compared a Japanese Katana can't cut through another sword, it just bends and warps because of how flimsy it is. But there is nothing better for flaying flesh (Slash damage)

Now look at it from the claymores point of view. It cuts through another sword, SWORD CUTS THROUGH SWORD, with next to no effort.

Swords like that aren't meant for the elegant cutting of the Japanese Katana (Slash damage)

They're meant to hack their way through anything that you put them up against (Impact damage)

SO that being said, historically and physically, it's no wonder the War is a impact based weapon. Don't believe me? Look it up

You do know there are 2 types of scottish claymores right?

[ROSING]

came here for a pun... leaving slightly disappointed.

Hate to break it to you but this isn't the War thread you're looking for.

 

....eh?...eh?

[321agemo]

Hate to break it to you but this isn't the War thread you're looking for.

....eh?...eh?

Pun game needs more work, didn't leave a lasting impact. :p

Yeah ok, I'll go now.

[FieserMoep]

Don't argue about realism in warframe.

Maybe it is just the glowy thingy of the blade that is actually hittin the target, dealing impact stuff?

 

Also the misinformation about swords here is strong. That stuff about the Katana and Claymore is just typical Hollywood/Discovery Channel BS.

Also European swords were not "simple" hack away toys compared to "elegant" Katanas.

From a technical standpoint (Maybe not artistic) they were way more advanced weapons in roughly any regard.

 

If compared the for whatever reason hyped Katana was a flawed design by many aspects if, and here I stretch, compared to tools that roughly were used for the same purpose but under completely different circumstances.

Thing is, the Katana was more of a traditional weapon than an actuall tool of war. It became prominent in the Edo Period (Bushido) which is actually just the "late" part of the Samurai Tradition and these actually preferred weapons like the iconic Yumi or Yari.

Being a traditional weapon also prohibited the Katana from much development. For European Swords we can take a look at the Oakenshott typology and can very much see an "arms race" where the weapon constantly adapted for the circumstances on the battlefield, mainly the improving defensive armament. In Europe there was always a war somewhere, unlike Japan, and we do have long trade routes and technology exchanges we can observe. During the war of the roses for example german and italian armours were in quite some demand over in england and hence this technology exchange lead to a vast development that constantly adapted and improved the weapons.

Another thing about Japanese mitalurgy and its reoccurring isolationist policies was a constant lack of good quality iron.

You always hear people praising this folding technique in hollywood blockbusters or "documentaries" yet the celts used this kind of stuff 200-300 AD in europe too.

Why did this not become prominent throughout the ages on European arms? Answer is easy. Access to high quality iron.

Folding steel is mainly used to get rid of impurities and control the carbon of said steel. If you already got good iron this becomes less an issue. Also folding different kind of steel as used in many japans sword types to add specific properties is no issue if you already got a high quality homogeneous steel with all the properties you actually need.

 

One might wonder if we do have these differences in production and quality these would actually be seen on the weapons in terms of measurable facts?
Yes, actually they do.

Given a traditional katana, a two handed weapon, might on average range from 1-1.4 kg and a blade length 60-75 cm we might compare this to the European "arming sword" and here I just take on average several different types. So for these one-handed weapons we do get an average of 1-1.2 kg of weight and and blade that actually is around 75 cm.

Why is that? European swords, due to the better steel, commonly have thinner blades without sacrificing stability meaning hardness and flexibility.

Contrary to common belief a European "Long Sword", here we go into the two handed variants, was not an extremely heavy weapon - it had to be "light" though swinging a few kg with such leverage clearly is not to be underestimated. There are swords with up to ~110 cm blade length that do not cross the 2kg mark and are actually quite below that.

[ValkyrieSequence]

But war... war never changes.

In some ways no, in some ways yes. I know it's just a Fallout quote, but the truth of the matter is that war has been changing for all of our existence. Not changing in the fundamental ways, no the most basic concepts remain. The change occurs in the capacity for it. Just look at firearms. The machine gun, for instance, raised the sheer volume of death that can be spread and it wasn't even the most deadly invention of it's time. On the other hand technologies that are a sign of the change also aid in modern life (e.g. Nuclear power). But please this isn't some shameless "War is bad" speech, I am just trying to show that War does change and that it has had quite an Impact on not only our history but also on modern life and the technologies and functions we use every day.

As an archaeologist I like to look at these subtle changes in human culture, and military history always fascinated me.

And yes there is more to that than just an academic paragraph.

Edited February 3, 2016 by ValkyrieSequence

[Lost_Cartographer]

Impact damage in the War's case stands in for the idea that we're to hack at something with a lot of strength behind the strike, rather than slash away at it with a swift maneuver.  The edge doesn't appear sharp so much as sturdy as well.  It's ironic, but impact damage should be superior to slash at engaging armor, but in game it's not because DE decided the Corpus and Grineer vulnerabilities had to be polar opposites except where robotics are concerned.

 

I'd go into details regarding the whole katana vs. english sword debate above, but I'll keep it short and say the english sword is a better overall sword because it was designed as the swiss army knife for combating heavy armor for the time, while the katana is just used to cut unarmored people.  Both were still side arms used as last resorts regardless however, and neither would have punched through heavy armor (and katana's weren't even up against real steel plated opponents.)  Spears, pole-arms and bows/cross-bows were still the go to weapons for anyone that didn't want to get killed.  Hollywood/anime fantasy might depict swords being capable of easily cutting through platemail armor, but in reality, it's steel hitting steel.  If One were to use a "side arm" that could beat platemail, an axe or mace would be preferable.

[Kunavi]

I am now going to inject some WF into your RealismFrame.

 

The War's blade is made of the same type of energy our shields use. Or a type which cancels out our shields' energy. Impact damage is known to affect shields the most, for various reasons(Mainly how an energy shield would work in WF's universe given its nature) this could be explained in both a case where we have an energy blade and one where we simply have a blunt weapon.

 

If my theory is correct that our shields have to do with magnetic stuffz(I am no scientist but we do slide on floor and latch on walls and magnetic damage fucks up shields) it would then probably mean the energy blades of the War aren't even hot- Taking care of the arguement of why if it is energy, doesn't the War deal electricity or even heat, on top of the counter arguement that it doesn't seem capable of producing too much energy to the point of creating a searing plasma edge or something along those lines... Just enough to keep the magnetic edges running I guess. And War doesn't deal magnetic damage either, because it's mostly the force of the impact and the shape(As opposed to the wide impact area of a hammer) of War that is forcing War's energy blades into shields. Which is why it is not a hammer. The logic would be to slice shields(But not flesh as the magnetic energy edges are not hot enough so it's not slash damage either. Against flesh, what would be more damaging would be the impact of War on it- There you have it).

As for weight ETC, did you miss the part where we are using suits that would make Tony Stark blush? Don't you think they can handle large weapons like they were nothing? You add some "Fury" or "Berserk"(Which don't allude to any actual weapon upgrades) and you swing stuff like nothing. Just by being angry enough really.
 

And no matter how wrong this may be(Which I think is not too wrong really), I am tired of the pseudo historical lessons and attempts to cut WF down to reality's size way too much. Plus when I do that everyone goes mad and calls me a nerd. So instead of going mad and condemning all others' opinions here(Beyond adding "Pseudo" for various reasons) I thought keeping it all about WF would make more sense. No offense to anyone.

[CapnFusterCluck]

I am now going to inject some WF into your RealismFrame.

 

The War's blade is made of the same type of energy our shields use. Or a type which cancels out our shields' energy. Impact damage is known to affect shields the most, for various reasons(Mainly how an energy shield would work in WF's universe given its nature) this could be explained in both a case where we have an energy blade and one where we simply have a blunt weapon.

 

If my theory is correct that our shields have to do with magnetic stuffz(I am no scientist but we do slide on floor and latch on walls and magnetic damage fucks up shields) it would then probably mean the energy blades of the War aren't even hot- Taking care of the arguement of why if it is energy, doesn't the War deal electricity or even heat, on top of the counter arguement that it doesn't seem capable of producing too much energy to the point of creating a searing plasma edge or something along those lines... Just enough to keep the magnetic edges running I guess. And War doesn't deal magnetic damage either, because it's mostly the force of the impact and the shape(As opposed to the wide impact area of a hammer) of War that is forcing War's energy blades into shields. Which is why it is not a hammer. The logic would be to slice shields(But not flesh as the magnetic energy edges are not hot enough so it's not slash damage either. Against flesh, what would be more damaging would be the impact of War on it- There you have it).

As for weight ETC, did you miss the part where we are using suits that would make Tony Stark blush? Don't you think they can handle large weapons like they were nothing? You add some "Fury" or "Berserk"(Which don't allude to any actual weapon upgrades) and you swing stuff like nothing. Just by being angry enough really.

 

And no matter how wrong this may be(Which I think is not too wrong really), I am tired of the pseudo historical lessons and attempts to cut WF down to reality's size way too much. Plus when I do that everyone goes mad and calls me a nerd. So instead of going mad and condemning all others' opinions here(Beyond adding "Pseudo" for various reasons) I thought keeping it all about WF would make more sense. No offense to anyone.

Wait, where did the "War's Energy" thing suddenly become related to shields? At all?

[The_Archdruid]

Second dream spoiler: at the end the warframe gets stabbed by a blunt object, which then the warframe being impaled by the "blunt" War gets offended and breaks Shadow Stalker's sword/club thing for being a jerk.

[Kaotyke]

came here for a pun... leaving slightly disappointed.

 

 

Idunno what to say..

But I ain't no pun maestro

Yeah, it did not have enough Impact.