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[DE]Whirrrrr

Reactor Sabotage 2.0

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  • Help to fill a longstanding gap in the spectrum of mission gameplay, with action focused missions like Survival, Defense and Excavation are at one end of the scale, and stealth and traversal challenge focused missions like Spy and Rescue at the other. Mission diversity needs a middle ground, and this rework aims to provide more narrative focused missions which support a broader range of play styles.

Mr Whirrrr, you & your team are doing an amazing job. I wasn't interested in sabotage at all (just complete the mission to unlock the nodes) but now...

 

I'll sneak around in any sabotage mission I'll meet!! Thank you for that! :D

 

The others do have a point though (in fact, two) :

 

- It'd be a great introduction to ground<-->Archwing missions.

- Escaping a tileset who gets destroyed as you proceed is a genius idea! Debris falling, enemies getting crushed by their own infrastructure... (it reminds me of Metroid in some way)

Loving the idea, waiting to see the concept in-game for myself. It should be interesting, to say the least.

 

Kinda reminds me of WoW when they added phasing, replacing areas with different versions depending on quest-stages. Which makes me wonder whether or not tilesets could phase for, say, parts of the ship getting blown up and forcing the player to navigate outside the ship, either by foot (wasn't that part of the original invasion maps? Corpus side having you walk on the exterior for a few sections?) or via archwing - or having to go through an alternative path than if you hadn't caused the reactor to melt down.

 

Which also reminds me... reactor goes down, ship's energy would go down, no? Could we expect cases where all or most (aside from sparse emergency ones) the lights turn off and enemies and Tenno would be using flashlights to see their surroundings (therefore giving Tenno a better stealth opportunity as they are shrouded in darkness)? I Imagine that could make for some really compelling strategic choices.

 

And, of course, broken pipes, gas or toxic leaks on Grineer Asteroid tileset, AI-controllers in Corpus installations going haywire, sending MOA and turrets into a Free-For-All killing mode, etc.

 

There's so much potential!

Oh.

 

Oh yes please! :o

 

Where do I sign?!!

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Wow, I am really glad ice hazard will no longer be just "BAM! Now your shields are halved and you can't do anything about it!"

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Would definitely make the long-requested "Frost should resist coolant leaks"/"Ember should resist fire patches" passives more worthwhile and interesting if you could see them coming.

 

I'm surprised there isn't more of a Parkour element behind it though, beyond "don't stand in fire". I would expect sabotaging a ship to cause it to begin breaking down, changing its structure as machinery starts to fail and walls come apart, Michael Bay-esque explosions, and forcing Tenno to race to extraction before extraction becomes unreachable because some scaffolding and rubble fell over the door and sealed you into the wreck. Indiana Jones-ian escapes.

But, could save that for another mission type, to go with Archwing Racing - just seems hard to find a better context.

That would be a ridiculously hard thing to do. The Evolution Engine might not make that an option.

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"as warframe evolves"everytime i read or hear this , tears of joy start gushing out, the transition from normal to cold on the devstream was seamless, so good, better than chocolate layered brownies,also the freedom aspect on how to execute the mission is amazing. Jesus i love this game. I'm seriously anxiously waiting for those "extremes" Scott mentioned, really would be cool to parkour out of a blasting ship

Edited by Cosmosframe
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Some very cool combination gameplay options with this new system. I'd like to see all the elements added in some form. Electricity: Could have electrical shorts shooting from conduits/systems, shocking/stunning/draining shields. Randomly turning on/off defenses, locking/unlocking doors, makes hauling &amp;#&#33; to the evac more precarious. Imagine bullet jumping down a clear corridor to have a energy defense suddenly pop up just as you get to it, or conduit start sparking on ur way through, zap! Doors suddenly close and lock, hacking short outs/resets. Lights shutting off making entire rooms blackout, can only see with Warframe lights, like in doom 3 with the flashlight. Turrets firing randomly in all directions, blowing out glass and decompressing rooms. Or areas that have had the glass blown out and sealed, malfunction, reopening rooms to space. Where fire and cold are more of "avoidance" gameplay, electricity offers proactive engagement from the players. Getting to the evac is more heart pounding when you have to keep stopping/getting stopped, as you watch the timers counting down.

 

Radiation/Toxins could have some cool mechanics too. Having to close/lock doors to slow the spread so you can escape. Strategically opening up areas to help cull enemies with the radiation/toxin. Activating ventilation systems to clear rooms, or pathways. Blowing out sections of walls/glass to open up new paths, or vent the radiation/toxin into space. Could add anti radiation/filtration power ups, (short duration buffs) giving a life support style of gameplay.

 

Just some thoughts, but I like whats been shown so far. Nice work :) 

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Why isn't escaping the exploding ship via Archwing a thing?

You guys have the perfect opportunity to tie it into regular gameplay without it being shoehorned, especially since it was in a quest. 

So why isn't it a thing?

 

Actually, it was tied into two quests: The Archwing and The Jordas Precept.

 

I'd make a joke about how many there are, but, that probably wouldn't-THERE ARE SO MANY MORE.....

Edited by xochild
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This is beautiful, Whirrrrr. Multiple paths and playstyles? Dynamic hazards? It's a dream come true - exactly what I always wanted Warframe to start becoming.

 

Is it possible that tileset generation could be reworked into the deal? I've really wanted things like loops - multiple routes/passages to the same place - and other more nonlinear tile structures. Would be amazing, too, if we had huge sprawling individual tiles where the multiple ways of getting around are baked in (kind of like how Rescue has side doors), and your objective is behind a bunch of obstacles you can choose to deal with tactically in a number of ways.

 

Some things I'd like to suggest regarding caches. I love hunting them, but I hate how there just isn't any indicator and you're basically scrambling in the dark. And multipath levels would make it a royal pain to find the caches. Right now, loot radar is the only reliable way of hunting them, and it just nails their exact location with an icon identical to a regular lootcrate...

 

What if the Scanners had trails like Simaris does for his targets? Unique graphic, shows lines spreading out to all the caches - but stops a short distance before the actual cache so you do have to search. Map could show a highlighted circle encompassing the closest handful of tiles - "here, cache's in one of these three or four rooms, get hunting" instead of the current breakable crate icon. Also, they could stand to spawn more in 'central' tiles instead of just mostly being in the corner rooms - the big ones have a lot of hiding spots.

 

And then there's a slightly crazier idea: More than three caches spawning in total. But, only the first three you open count as the usual sab caches; if you open extra in the mission they're treated as 'rare lockers' with a higher chance of dropping things like rare resources and cores, and the absolute worst roll for opening them is a largish pile of credits, like a small cred cache. The idea being that if you find 'at least three' then you're good. It would reduce "missed the last one" frustration, but reward those who really do just want to scour every corner.

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Sounds very interesting overall, and I'm really enjoying the fact that mission types end up allowing the game to tie in a continually developing dynamic narrative with the gameplay. If players ought to care about the universe they're playing in, they need to be told and shown the consequences of their actions and especially inactions.

 

The only comment for Sabo 2.0 I have now is that from the demo it seemed like the environmental hazards "popped" in instead of slowly appearing and radiating from the reactor room throughout the map. It would be really neat if the hazard would propagate throughout the map as for instance the coolant overload permeates the reactor core, while a reactor overheat could burst pipes and cause explosions throughout the map, covering the ground in burning metal sludge and debris.

Edited by AuroraSonicBoom
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hell, bringing some things/inspiration from Raid (the Game Mode), *Spoiler* from the section of Second Dream where you must sabotage the Womb to drop it out of the Void, Sealab Sabotage where you can deposit items into terminals... Et Cetera would be great too.

 

grabbing a 'hot' or volatile item, delivering it to a destination (along with the crazy modifiers from the items i've talked about so many times!), having to destroy sub systems or sub stations of some sort before/after sabotaging the Reactor as well, so many great things.

 

with so many different things that can fit great here, Sabotage could have sprawling amounts of Optional Objectives! choose how you want to sabotage the Reactor, and therefore pick one or more areas to sneak into / assault / steal from / many other things to get the item you want to use to Sabotage the Reactor.

but not even just limited to only the Primary Objective, using the same rooms or similar style things can also have optional Secondary Objectives that could either make the Mission overall easier to handle, change how the Enemies respond to your actions, make the Mission more hazardous but technically easier, Et Cetera. :)

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UGH. You guys keep negatively tweaking the only kinds of missions that I enjoy. Now all I have left is exterminate, crossfire, and capture D:

Nobody said you had to like it.

Just don't be salty.

Like that guy who swore off

missions because he didn't like the design of them.

How is s/he doing now...?

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More caches?

 

I absolutely hate these scavenger hunts.  If they're gonna keep popping up everywhere, we need something to make it less aggravating then "Wander around tileset aimlessly and hope."

Little hoping to be done actually.  They make a very audible sound and glow freaking white.  Wandering around the ship is the whole point to the caches.  You don't need to hunt them down - they're mostly bonuses for people that want to.

 

I can't freaking wait for these changes to sabotage.  One of my favorite game types already, and they're making it even better!  Next up?  Deception.  That'll be a tough nut for DE to crack though, I'm sure.  And exterminate?  Hoping they'll dare to do something with it.

Edited by Littleman88
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Little hoping to be done actually.  They make a very audible sound and glow freaking white.  Wandering around the ship is the whole point to the caches.  You don't need to hunt them down - they're mostly bonuses for people that want to.

 

I can't freaking wait for these changes to sabotage.  One of my favorite game types already, and they're making it even better!  Next up?  Deception.  That'll be a tough nut for DE to crack though, I'm sure.  And exterminate?  Hoping they'll dare to do something with it.

Actually, while I love hunting caches, I still think it could use refinement to reward explorers even further and be a more dynamic experience. Especially if tilesets become bigger and less linear. See above for my suggestions.

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I am excited for the new Sabotage rework. Just be sure that reward is appropriate for the effort involved, and there is something unique about the mission and reward pool. Players want to feel their choice is significant, and be rewarded for their effort.

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I am excited for the new Sabotage rework. Just be sure that reward is appropriate for the effort involved, and there is something unique about the mission and reward pool. Players want to feel their choice is significant, and be rewarded for their effort.

 

^this +1 i also find it important thath mission types offer indidual rewards and also gameplay.

 

I like the concept feels like actualy sabotaging a space ship ans before the change to capture targets sabotage, capture and deception feelt like the same mission go from point a to point b.

Edited by (PS4)Prisma144
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Actually, while I love hunting caches, I still think it could use refinement to reward explorers even further and be a more dynamic experience. Especially if tilesets become bigger and less linear. See above for my suggestions.

No doubt caches could be made more rewarding, but I already march around the map, cache or no cache.  Leaving a sabotage with 400 kills feels great.

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The worst part about this post is that now I'm really excited to try this out and it hasn't been implemented yet. XD

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Little hoping to be done actually.  They make a very audible sound and glow freaking white.  Wandering around the ship is the whole point to the caches.  You don't need to hunt them down - they're mostly bonuses for people that want to.

 

I can't freaking wait for these changes to sabotage.  One of my favorite game types already, and they're making it even better!  Next up?  Deception.  That'll be a tough nut for DE to crack though, I'm sure.  And exterminate?  Hoping they'll dare to do something with it.

 

The sound never seems audible to me - and wandering around being the whole point is exactly what I don't want. 

 

Provided they remain ignorable bonuses, fine, I'll just continue to ignore them.  But then, rare crates were ignorable bonuses at first - until they starting putting parts available only in rare crates into them.

 

How long til that happens?

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The sound never seems audible to me - and wandering around being the whole point is exactly what I don't want. 

 

Provided they remain ignorable bonuses, fine, I'll just continue to ignore them.  But then, rare crates were ignorable bonuses at first - until they starting putting parts available only in rare crates into them.

 

How long til that happens?

Probably not long, and there might be rewards for simply completing the sabotages on top of that.  

 

However, in the case of rare crates, they're unfair because we don't know if they even spawned when we begin any single mission. Sabotage supply caches in contrast ALWAYS spawn (in the missions where they do spawn.)  If I were pulling the strings at DE, I'd move the parts found in rare crates into sabotage caches if I wanted those parts to be acquired for a scavenger hunt.  Rare crates should remain filled with nifty bonuses like large quantities of resources or credits or even a blueprint that can be acquired elsewhere until they always spawn in a map.

 

So... if parts are going into lockers/crates, sabotage supply caches are the lesser of two evils.

Edited by Littleman88
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I'd really rather vastly prefer no evil over the lesser of two evils. 

 

No more adding in things to obtain where the main activity is simply moving through near empty areas.  Especially when the few enemies or other opposition are best simply ignored for efficiency's sake.

 

It's the same reason I didn't care for the Excavation change.  Glen showed it didn't actually slow down the reward rate - but what it did do was considerably increase the empty commute time, and that make it feel so much slower.

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I'd really rather vastly prefer no evil over the lesser of two evils. 

 

No more adding in things to obtain where the main activity is simply moving through near empty areas.  Especially when the few enemies or other opposition are best simply ignored for efficiency's sake.

 

It's the same reason I didn't care for the Excavation change.  Glen showed it didn't actually slow down the reward rate - but what it did do was considerably increase the empty commute time, and that make it feel so much slower.

Then don't go looking for the caches.  They're there for people like me, and I'd appreciate if they had things that were desirable, even exclusive.  A lot of people would, this I know for a fact.

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Or maybe we can add in a radar or the like.   I'll happily sacrifice a mod slot to not deal with what is functionally a triple, "no-minimap nightmare capture", you can be at full strength and do your explorer thing, and everybody's happy.  Instead of just me, or just you.

Edited by Phatose
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Would a ordis popup message when player is with a certain radius on a cache or rare cache be hard to ad in?  It would also be super new player friendly.   It would be something you could ignore but help with the times where ambient sounds blend with cache sounds.

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Sabotage, for one, is a game mode that doesn't really need a rework. "Escape with Archwing" idea is good, but not what you suggested. It looks boring - current sabotage is more fun.

 

Why don't you take a look at unpopular mission types? Survival for example used to be an actual survival vs enemies, now it's simply "derp around half-afk, activating capsules periodically" - boring, tedious, no challenge. Why don't add some sort of randomly selected mini-boss after every 5/10 minutes of survival and same with defense waves? Like in the recent event.

 

I honestly not excited about sabotage rework.

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How long til that happens?

FYI - finding all 3 Sabotage Caches (so getting the third 'Rare' desirable reward) is just another roll on the Mission Completion pool that you get for completing the Mission.

 

so the answer to that would be never because finding 1/2 Caches deliberately gives somewhat useful but no so great rewards.

 

Why don't you take a look at unpopular mission types?

1 - non Void, non Infested Ship Sabotage IS an unpopular Mission Type.

2 - Survival is NOT an unpopular Mission Type.

Edited by taiiat

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